Under .125 Klonopin Club

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Thanks Flibberty!

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Scaredie---I would go to "General Taper Plans" and look under "Help with Planning Your Taper."  Good luck, Scaredie!  You will make it!  Stop in sometimes.  Best, Flibberty

[[Kr...]]

I tried titration today and my symptoms have been awful, much worse than my most recent worst days. It feels similar to my acute phase after my first rapid taper. I have no idea if it has to do with changing to liquid or if it just coincidentally happened today, the day I started titration.  But it's awful... throat has felt like it's closing up. Burning, tingling, pulsing, poking nerves all over my body.Tremors. Dizzy, blurry vision. Super tense muscles. Burning scalp. Hasn't stopped or eased up all day. The only new symptom is the throat thing. Usually I don't get all of them at once though... and so intensely. Not sure what went wrong. I even updosed by 5% as suggested when switching to liquid. Pretty positive I made the solution correctly. I didn't think I'd feel any effects.

[[Gr...]]

Kristin-  That is TERRIBLE.  I wonder why that happened?   

[[Kr...]]

Thanks Greencup. I don't get it. My body is just so messed up and sensitive at this point, I guess. It's just bizarre. I thought maybe the pill hadn't dissolved all the way because there were tiny flecks on the bottom of the solution, but I read that those are from the fillers. Who knows.

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Oh Kristin I am so sorry for you.  You must be terribly disappointed.  Those symptoms sound rotten.

Did you use alcohol to dissolve the pill? 

How long between taking the liquid to the point of getting sick?

You really are sensitive to changes in Klonopin.

 

[[fl...]]

Kristin---Thinking about you and hoping you are better today.

[[Kr...]]

Thank you guys so much.  I really appreciate the concern.  I think my buddies here are the only ones who truly realize how devastating it can be when you take a risk on something to improve your situation, only to have it backfire so terribly.  It's just another twisted part of this suffering that I am needing to rise above today.  And I am feeling okay this morning.  I ended up taking half of my dosage (.036mg) in a dry tablet around 6pm because it was miserable.  This is the first time in 17 months I have ever had a rescue dose, if that's even what you would consider it.  Not sure I actually got my correct dosage through the liquid method in the first place though, so maybe I wasn't far off from my correct daily dosage. But it was disappointing for me to take that "rescue dose" as I've endured many horrific days before without any relief, but something was just different about yesterday. Anyway, the symptoms started to ease in the evening after I took the dry half-dose and I was able to sleep fine. I'm back to dry tablets this morning.  I hope I didn't mess things up too much.  I can only look forward now.

 

Bob, I did use 1ml alcohol for my .5mg tablet.  This all happened during the first day I tried the liquid.  Nothing really makes sense from a rational standpoint.  All logical reasoning suggests that a tablet dissolved in liquid would have the same effect as a dry tablet which begins to dissolve immediately in the stomach.  And I really can't imagine the tiny amount of alcohol having an adverse effect, but then again, there is so much we do not know about all of this and I could continue to speculate and try some a different solvent, but the reality is, I don't know what happened or caused such a reaction, and I really don't want to experiment further and risk another day of cold turkey hell.  I'm still not even certain it was due to the liquid, as I had had some pretty awful days earlier in the week that were bad but not as extreme.  I don't know guys.  I just know we are all fighters here and I'm so proud of everyone who persists to get off this poison, however long it might take.  I wish we had help from the medical community.  I am just feeling tremendous empathy for everyone suffering today.

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Thank you guys so much.  I really appreciate the concern.  I think my buddies here are the only ones who truly realize how devastating it can be when you take a risk on something to improve your situation, only to have it backfire so terribly.  It's just another twisted part of this suffering that I am needing to rise above today.  And I am feeling okay this morning.  I ended up taking half of my dosage (.036mg) in a dry tablet around 6pm because it was miserable.  This is the first time in 17 months I have ever had a rescue dose, if that's even what you would consider it.  Not sure I actually got my correct dosage through the liquid method in the first place though, so maybe I wasn't far off from my correct daily dosage. But it was disappointing for me to take that "rescue dose" as I've endured many horrific days before without any relief, but something was just different about yesterday. Anyway, the symptoms started to ease in the evening after I took the dry half-dose and I was able to sleep fine. I'm back to dry tablets this morning.  I hope I didn't mess things up too much.  I can only look forward now.

 

Bob, I did use 1ml alcohol for my .5mg tablet.  This all happened during the first day I tried the liquid.  Nothing really makes sense from a rational standpoint.  All logical reasoning suggests that a tablet dissolved in liquid would have the same effect as a dry tablet which begins to dissolve immediately in the stomach.  And I really can't imagine the tiny amount of alcohol having an adverse effect, but then again, there is so much we do not know about all of this and I could continue to speculate and try some a different solvent, but the reality is, I don't know what happened or caused such a reaction, and I really don't want to experiment further and risk another day of cold turkey hell.  I'm still not even certain it was due to the liquid, as I had had some pretty awful days earlier in the week that were bad but not as extreme.  I don't know guys.  I just know we are all fighters here and I'm so proud of everyone who persists to get off this poison, however long it might take.  I wish we had help from the medical community.  I am just feeling tremendous empathy for everyone suffering today.

KristinM,

My heart goes out to you.  It really is horrible to suddenly be cast into cold turkey withdrawal.

 

I agree - this doesn't make logical sense.

 

The nearest thing I can relate is how I can be going along at a tolerable level of withdrawal and then an external influence of stress (usually my job) enters in and have have acute withdrawal for about 24 hours.  But then I level out again.

 

Maybe this experiment was a shock to your system because you worried about it?  Even if the chemicals were right, the worry over the change gave you anxiety stress and kicked you into acute?

 

Who knows for sure? 

 

But I do feel for you.  Much empathy.  Don't lose hope.  There are other ways to taper. 

 

I wonder if there is a way you can taper without knowing it (so to remove the worry about tapering)?  Like a blind study.  If your husband could give you your benzo for the next 7 days wherein one of those days there is a taper (cut) in your dose?  This might teach you at least some of the problem is due to worry about tapering.

 

I pray for everyone going through this - including you.

 

Try to focus on the present.  When we live in the future, we get more anxiety.

[[NJ...]]

Also posted this in the klonopin klub #2  but also wanted to post here in case someone has suggestions.

 

I am dry cutting klonopin, have always used teva brand. I just went to the pharmacy, of course no teva, they had .5 mg orally disintegrating tablets by Par Pharmacueiticals ... can these be dry cut? I am really under a lot of stress right now having just changed jobs and possibly changing jobs again, been very sick even before job change, have updosed, and have no idea of how to work with these tablets unless I just go back to .5 mg, at .4 mg now, was at .35 mg.

 

Any advice? I am literally sobbing as I am typing this. I cannot deal with another thing. I know I am panicking. I was out sick vomiting all day last week and cannot have this keep happening. The updose has helped my nausea but I am really, really not sure what to do about the brand change.

 

Kristen, I am so sorry you are having so many difficulties. While I know it is a slightly different experience I in the past tried a profesionally compounded klonopin liquid and fell apart (which is why I am hesitant to try liquid again). There are others who just couldn't adjust to liquid. I know it seems like the most gentle way, but it seems not everyone's body adjusts.

[[Sc...]]

Also posted this in the klonopin klub #2  but also wanted to post here in case someone has suggestions.

 

I am dry cutting klonopin, have always used teva brand. I just went to the pharmacy, of course no teva, they had .5 mg orally disintegrating tablets by Par Pharmacueiticals ... can these be dry cut? I am really under a lot of stress right now having just changed jobs and possibly changing jobs again, been very sick even before job change, have updosed, and have no idea of how to work with these tablets unless I just go back to .5 mg, at .4 mg now, was at .35 mg.

 

Any advice? I am literally sobbing as I am typing this. I cannot deal with another thing. I know I am panicking. I was out sick vomiting all day last week and cannot have this keep happening. The updose has helped my nausea but I am really, really not sure what to do about the brand change.

 

Kristen, I am so sorry you are having so many difficulties. While I know it is a slightly different experience I in the past tried a profesionally compounded klonopin liquid and fell apart (which is why I am hesitant to try liquid again). There are others who just couldn't adjust to liquid. I know it seems like the most gentle way, but it seems not everyone's body adjusts.

I’m sorry I can’t answer your question. Will your pharmacist take them back or your doctor let you turn them in for a new script to take elsewhere. That’s what I’d do. Try to get new script from doc or hold on this new thing.

 

I know you told me once but I forgot how long exactly did it take for you to fall apart from your compounded liquid. What was your experience again?

[[NJ...]]

My compounded liquid was a disaster pretty much from the start. It was a while ago but I think within two-three days had totally stopped sleeping, constant vomiting, on the phone with the pharmacist wondering what was going on. She just told me to hang in there, that tapering was hard. I have never been that sick again since switching back to dry pills.

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Thank you, NJ. Were you on all liquid or part pills part liquid?

[[NJ...]]

Thank you, NJ. Were you on all liquid or part pills part liquid?

 

Just liquid. I started liquid at .875 dosage of K.

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Thanks

[[Kr...]]

NJ - I have no idea if you can cut disintegrating tablets.  I am SO sorry you are having to figure this out while in distress.  I hope someone on the forums has some insight into your situation.  Maybe transfer to a pharmacy that has another brand that is not a disintegrating tablet?  I hope you get some answers.  Hang in there.  It sounds like it's been so rough.  I'm sorry you had a hard time with compounded liquid as well.

 

Bob - Thank you deeply for your support.  I wouldn't discount the possibility of some type of subconscious psychological resistance intensifying symptoms, but I know there was probably more to it.  Maybe an underlying anxiety combined with an adverse physical reaction was the making of a perfect storm.  I'm going to hold a bit and be thankful for the moments I can do anything without debilitating symptoms.  This sure puts everything into perspective...knowing how much worse it can be.  Yes, be in the present moment.  Most of the time that is my mantra...to breathe and to ground myself in what is real.  So hard when the present moment is the most uncomfortable place though.  Returning to the breath and asking for divine help are my only ways through those times.

 

Thinking of everyone.

 

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NJ - I have no idea if you can cut disintegrating tablets.  I am SO sorry you are having to figure this out while in distress.  I hope someone on the forums has some insight into your situation.  Maybe transfer to a pharmacy that has another brand that is not a disintegrating tablet?  I hope you get some answers.  Hang in there.  It sounds like it's been so rough.  I'm sorry you had a hard time with compounded liquid as well.

 

Bob - Thank you deeply for your support.  I wouldn't discount the possibility of some type of subconscious psychological resistance intensifying symptoms, but I know there was probably more to it.  Maybe an underlying anxiety combined with an adverse physical reaction was the making of a perfect storm.  I'm going to hold a bit and be thankful for the moments I can do anything without debilitating symptoms.  This sure puts everything into perspective...knowing how much worse it can be.  Yes, be in the present moment.  Most of the time that is my mantra...to breathe and to ground myself in what is real.  So hard when the present moment is the most uncomfortable place though.  Returning to the breath and asking for divine help are my only ways through those times.

 

Thinking of everyone.

 

KristinM,

If you ever want to try it, I am willing to help you with a dry micro taper using dry filler - I just finished doing this for another BB.  She is been doing it for a week now and pressing on.  I warn you , it is time consuming the day you make your pills.  It takes me about 2 or 3 hours to make each months supply of pills - each pill tapers 0.001 mg per day.

[[Gr...]]

NJS- I have thought that you could not cut ODT, but I realize that I have no scientific proof to this.  I know people have used them for liquid taper.  I don't really know why they would not work to be cut up?  I remember when I tried to cut them up that they basically just turned to dust and powder in my hands, so maybe it is possible but I do not know how. 

 

Kristin-  I remember it taking a few days for me to adjust to the liquid, even though I know there is technically supposed to be nothing different.  I have been holding the same amount of time as you and if I had switched to liquid two days ago, I certainly would have thought it was the switch that made me unable to sleep.  Maybe you just are having a wave?  I am about to run out of tablets that I can cut, and have to go back to liquid as well in a week or two.  Hang in there. 

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NJS- I have thought that you could not cut ODT, but I realize that I have no scientific proof to this.  I know people have used them for liquid taper.  I don't really know why they would not work to be cut up?  I remember when I tried to cut them up that they basically just turned to dust and powder in my hands, so maybe it is possible but I do not know how. 

 

Kristin-  I remember it taking a few days for me to adjust to the liquid, even though I know there is technically supposed to be nothing different.  I have been holding the same amount of time as you and if I had switched to liquid two days ago, I certainly would have thought it was the switch that made me unable to sleep.  Maybe you just are having a wave?  I am about to run out of tablets that I can cut, and have to go back to liquid as well in a week or two.  Hang in there. 

Sorry I know I’m not in this club. I know I’ve been wanting to be so cautious & scared to start taper, but am ready now & convinced my extraordinary fatigue is due to high dose k pin & cant function like this way anymore. Bella made me nice dlmt charts but it seems I can’t go fast enough to relieve fatigue.

But do you remember in the beginning of your taper if we’re on a relatively high k pin dose(I’m on 3.5mg/day)ever making cuts larger than 10% of daily dose and avoiding withdrawal symptoms?

Anyone please feel free to chime in. I’m sooooo tired I can’t deal. Trying to start new dlmt with compounded pharm liquid but I took it this am & just want to go back to sleep, can’t tell if maybe I’m even more tired on the liquid. Could it be stronger than pills. I also got a gurgle tummy post dose & feel sort of like i took a shot.

 

Thoughts on dry cutting .125mg from 6a. .5, 12pm .5, 6pm .5 leave bedtime dose @ 2mg

Or cutting .25 from first 2 doses of day leave all else alone or dlmt 3rd dose while doing this leaving bed dose,

 

Anyone with excessive fatigue, on high dose feel better after, no withdrawal from fairly large cuts early in taper? Details?

 

What are thoughts on the following also:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204137.msg2646166#msg2646166

 

Thank you

 

 

 

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NJS- I have thought that you could not cut ODT, but I realize that I have no scientific proof to this.  I know people have used them for liquid taper.  I don't really know why they would not work to be cut up?  I remember when I tried to cut them up that they basically just turned to dust and powder in my hands, so maybe it is possible but I do not know how. 

 

Kristin-  I remember it taking a few days for me to adjust to the liquid, even though I know there is technically supposed to be nothing different.  I have been holding the same amount of time as you and if I had switched to liquid two days ago, I certainly would have thought it was the switch that made me unable to sleep.  Maybe you just are having a wave?  I am about to run out of tablets that I can cut, and have to go back to liquid as well in a week or two.  Hang in there. 

Sorry I know I’m not in this club. I know I’ve been wanting to be so cautious & scared to start taper, but am ready now & convinced my extraordinary fatigue is due to high dose k pin & cant function like this way anymore. Bella made me nice dlmt charts but it seems I can’t go fast enough to relieve fatigue.

But do you remember in the beginning of your taper if we’re on a relatively high k pin dose(I’m on 3.5mg/day)ever making cuts larger than 10% of daily dose and avoiding withdrawal symptoms?

Anyone please feel free to chime in. I’m sooooo tired I can’t deal. Trying to start new dlmt with compounded pharm liquid but I took it this am & just want to go back to sleep, can’t tell if maybe I’m even more tired on the liquid. Could it be stronger than pills. I also got a gurgle tummy post dose & feel sort of like i took a shot.

 

Thoughts on dry cutting .125mg from 6a. .5, 12pm .5, 6pm .5 leave bedtime dose @ 2mg

Or cutting .25 from first 2 doses of day leave all else alone or dlmt 3rd dose while doing this leaving bed dose,

 

Anyone with excessive fatigue, on high dose feel better after, no withdrawal from fairly large cuts early in taper? Details?

 

What are thoughts on the following also:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204137.msg2646166#msg2646166

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Scaredie,

 

I think the most significant difference about you is you take large doses (0.5mg or more) 4 times a day.

 

Everyone - wouldn't that sedate you?  It would me.

 

I ONLY take my Klonopin at bed to avoid daytime fatigue.

 

Why your doc has you taking it in the morning, noon, dinner, and at bed makes no sense to me.

 

Klonopin has a long half-life.  It is unusual you take it four times a day.

 

[[Sc...]]

NJS- I have thought that you could not cut ODT, but I realize that I have no scientific proof to this.  I know people have used them for liquid taper.  I don't really know why they would not work to be cut up?  I remember when I tried to cut them up that they basically just turned to dust and powder in my hands, so maybe it is possible but I do not know how. 

 

Kristin-  I remember it taking a few days for me to adjust to the liquid, even though I know there is technically supposed to be nothing different.  I have been holding the same amount of time as you and if I had switched to liquid two days ago, I certainly would have thought it was the switch that made me unable to sleep.  Maybe you just are having a wave?  I am about to run out of tablets that I can cut, and have to go back to liquid as well in a week or two.  Hang in there. 

Sorry I know I’m not in this club. I know I’ve been wanting to be so cautious & scared to start taper, but am ready now & convinced my extraordinary fatigue is due to high dose k pin & cant function like this way anymore. Bella made me nice dlmt charts but it seems I can’t go fast enough to relieve fatigue.

But do you remember in the beginning of your taper if we’re on a relatively high k pin dose(I’m on 3.5mg/day)ever making cuts larger than 10% of daily dose and avoiding withdrawal symptoms?

Anyone please feel free to chime in. I’m sooooo tired I can’t deal. Trying to start new dlmt with compounded pharm liquid but I took it this am & just want to go back to sleep, can’t tell if maybe I’m even more tired on the liquid. Could it be stronger than pills. I also got a gurgle tummy post dose & feel sort of like i took a shot.

 

Thoughts on dry cutting .125mg from 6a. .5, 12pm .5, 6pm .5 leave bedtime dose @ 2mg

Or cutting .25 from first 2 doses of day leave all else alone or dlmt 3rd dose while doing this leaving bed dose,

 

Anyone with excessive fatigue, on high dose feel better after, no withdrawal from fairly large cuts early in taper? Details?

 

What are thoughts on the following also:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204137.msg2646166#msg2646166

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Scaredie,

 

I think the most significant difference about you is you take large doses (0.5mg or more) 4 times a day.

 

Everyone - wouldn't that sedate you?  It would me.

 

I ONLY take my Klonopin at bed to avoid daytime fatigue.

 

Why your doc has you taking it in the morning, noon, dinner, and at bed makes no sense to me.

 

Klonopin has a long half-life.  It is unusual you take it four times a day.

Yes Bob it does have a long half life. But even though I’m very tolerant to it now, so I don’t actually feel it’s effects like when I first took it I do remember it’s effects only lasting 6 hours for me when I began on .25 twice per day.

My dose first escalated when antidepressants(one of the many tried/failed/combos)caused me insomnia, then that stayed there, got me up to 1-1.5/day just like that!

And then @some point .25 didn’t control my panic & anxiety any longer so up to 2-2.5

I think my dose escalated when I was on stimulants for treatment resistant depression, insomnia & anxiety became issues, but ECT was next & I was still pretty clueless about this benzo stuff combined with putting blinders on too no doubt. then stayed there after discontinuing those as I had horrible depression, suicidal ideation, anxiety, intrusive thoughts etc from stopping Stims

Doc actually upped me to 4mg per day. So I think yes he messed up. But now my body is very used to them that’s why I’m here trying to learn & get better.

[[fl...]]

I'm so sorry, Scaredie!  I also have never been on as much.  I have heard people say that you can come down more quickly in the beginning from a high dose, but I am not qualified to say.  I forgot to say thank you for your encouragement!  I hope you get some help soon.

 

NJS---How are you?  I really hope you are feeling better!

 

I went down to .03 mg today, but after a 2 1/2 day window, I crashed really hard last night and the awfulness continued into today.  I now know what people mean when they say they feel like they have a tight band around their head.  Sigh!  I hope you are good.

[[Sc...]]

Your welcome & thank you for your response. Congrats on dropping down, but sorry it’s made you feel poorly. I hope your feeling better very soon!

[[Sc...]]

Holding 3.25mg!

 

TEVA ALTERNATIVE EQUIVALENT ?

 

Does anyone who took mainly teva clonazapam know of a similar alternative for it.

 

I realize we’re all different, but I really would appreciate any input as I need to start trialing different ones ASAP, while I’m tapering & try & stay as stable as possible.

 

THANK YOU!

[[Gr...]]

Scaredie - Nice Job! 

 

Well I've hemmed and hawed about this for a bit, and that actually started giving me some stress, so I am going to hold until July 7th, cause I have a bunch of things going on in life and they'll be over by then.  I've seen a few stories in the last week of people who tapered fast and are sorry about it so I am hoping that my post taper life will be easier because of these decisions I am making now.