Under .125 Klonopin Club

[[Gr...]]

Hey Nicoco- Can you make a signature so we can see your taper progress? 

 

Today is another beautiful day weather wise for me.  I am feeling a little bit of derealization since yesterday, but all in all, things are pretty good.  I'm reading, or um, listening to, cause reading is hard right now, "The Dance of Anger".  I feel a little bad cause I paused the marriage counseling book I am supposed to be reading to actually read this one, cause it seems to help more with anger. 

 

Did you know that all anger can be changed to I-statements, and then you are more likely to get resolved what you were angry about?  I am learning so much. 

[[Kr...]]

Hey GreenCup,

So great you are finding some useful tools to deal with your anger.  I know that a lot of the anger is probably magnified due to withdrawal, but the fact that you can take responsibility for the underlying reasons as to why you are angry shows that you are capable of learning how to transform your behavior while you are in withdrawal.  That is profound and will have amazing effects for you and everyone in your family.  It helps me to look at this time in "recovery" as one of extreme personal growth.  I mean, we are forced to slow down and we can either make the most of it by trying to improve ourselves, or we can stagnate in benzo hell which is not a place I want to stay. Somedays are harder than others, especially when symptoms are raging, but if we can get past those bad moments, and forgive ourselves when we react poorly and just keep trying again and again, I think we'll look at this time as beneficial to our personal development.  If the "Dance of Anger" book is speaking to you right now, I'd stick with that one and absorb and integrate as much as you can.  Can you give an example of an I-statement?  Thanks for sharing. I find this interesting.

 

[[Gr...]]

It is super interesting to me too.  I am realizing that I have lost a bit of my sense of self, and not just in my marriage.  I honestly think I have lost it more due to benzos AND how I was taught or maybe not taught to express my emotions and needs.

 

In the book, the author, Harriet Lerner, gives all kinds of examples on how to express anger.  She does a lot of them with couples.  There is one, where the wife is angry at the husband because he is always bringing home guests from work, and making it hard on her to prepare dinner, as well as she is taking care of the kids and has no time for herself.  So instead of getting angry, she tells him that she needs more help and that it is too much work for her and she is tired.  Though, that doesn't work, and she ends up making sandwiches for dinner 3 times a week, and her husband is on his own for dinner on those nights.  She also gets a babysitter twice a week and starts going out with friends on one night, and to yoga the other time.  There was some cleaning she also refused to do but I can't quite remember what that was.

 

 

So I guess it's more than JUST an I statement sometimes.  There is a lot of stuff about getting your needs met and changing your life to do it.  The I-statement is all about expressing your needs to the other person, but she also says that you can't change other people's behavior, but you can change your own behavior, which is what this lady ended up doing. 

[[Gr...]]

I think the turning things into I statements is maybe for for when you are expressing your anger as a you statement. So instead of, "You always do that!" you try to say, "When you do that I feel x and y, so please don't do that." 

 

I'm not sure if I have this right. 

[[Kr...]]

This is great stuff.  I'm happy that it is helping you. It sounds a lot like it's causing you to reflect on and identify your own unmet needs prior to life on benzos.  That's so powerful.  The example you gave about the woman who was frustrated by having to take on too much reminds me of what I internalized growing up by observing a mother who assumed the role of martyr.  There was an underlying feeling of anger and resentment in my home due to my mother's unmet needs and my father's inconsiderate behavior,  and unfortunately I re-played that in my marriage for quite awhile, not even realizing I was acting just like my mother by taking on way more than I could handle and then being angry at my husband for not helping.  Once you identify the patterns, you bring it out of the unconscious and can start to change things.  You start acting from a more conscious place and become less reactionary.  I have not mastered this by any means and still have emotional memories bubble up that fill me with anger and resentment but I guess there is kind of a lag time now in how I respond.  I refuse to be a martyr and hold anger in my body, kind of like the woman in the story.  So excited for you!

[[Gr...]]

Yeah this is really transformational.  I honestly don't know all my needs, but listening to my own feelings and body is where I am starting.  I now think that most of my anger comes from my OWN ignoring of the effects of benzos on me over the years.  And with that, other people, i.e. my husband, were complicit in also ignoring a lot of my feelings as being "just my anxiety".  It's a huge change for me and also to ask my husband to make in the way he relates to me. 

 

It does make me wonder how many others have been ignoring their own bodies while on some psychiatric drug and thinking they just had a disease, when in reality  they were normal and the disease was caused by the drug.

 

Doesn't this sound like a topic for a dystopian novel? 

[[Wo...]]

Hi I love this discussion. I love that getting off benzos is bringing so many of us to the core of our healing journey. I have been healing on so many levels due to having to take care of myself in ways I’ve never known before. Identifying and eliminating stressors in minutes and getting so dialed in to DBT and CBT therapy to unlearn so many behaviour that were just old patterns of self defense from emotional pain. Taking away medication is profound. If we want to come out of this better and braver and more complete I think it’s way more than just doing a taper. GreenCup so glad you are having awesome revelations!

 

I’m now at .03. I can’t believe that I’m so near to the end. I have very little symptoms these days and can say I’m in a good window. I know from past experience not to jump right back into life although I SO want to take a dance class or travel I have done that before during windows then had to pay the piper so to speak. So I’m just staying low and calm and doing the same routine I’ve been doing during waves of lots of self care, walks in nature and all the other support systems I’ve cultivated.

 

I am still dry cutting and holding. I sent back the expensive precision scale because it wasn’t so precise after all. I’m still using the gemini scale. Still hesitant to transition to liquid. I am sure my fears are unfounded but here I am.

 

I hope to be done by end of August. All depends on my body but that’s what I’d love to see happen. I am praying for a smooth and easy taper and easy walk off with no acute symptoms. Wanting that for all of us.

 

How is everyone else doing in their taper?

[[...]]

Hi WW23,

 

Thanks for asking.  I am on day 18 of my taper - tapering 0.001 mg per day of Klonopin. 

 

It is going ok.  I have some symptoms but they are tolerable.  When I first started the taper, the symptoms were bad so I tried some Buspar and it seemed to stabilize me.  I stopped the Buspar and I am still stable.  I am also taking Magnesium and I think that also helps keep my symptoms low during this taper and helps with sleep.

 

WHO KNOWS WHAT REALLY IS HAPPENING. 

 

Perhaps I am just in a window unrelated to Buspar or Magnesium? 

 

In any case, I get to continue my taper and I thank God for it.

 

[[Gr...]]

I am still holding at .0625mg.  And it looks like I'm pretty much in a window.  I am not going to second guess this.  I am so grateful. 

 

Here's the thing, I still have the same problems as before, and I'm just not as angry about stuff.  I don't feel as negative and things just seem a bit better all around.  Just for reference, I've been holding almost 7 weeks now.  I also have cut chicken and eggs out of my diet for now.  If eggs are cooked in something I'm don't worry about it, but something about just eggs has really set my stomach off in the past and I'm listening to that now. 

 

Bob - Congrats on the window!!! 

 

WW23-  That's so great your therapy is working for you.  How is DBT?  I've only ever used CBT and it seems to work okay for me.  I need to do more work with it still.  I also hope to be off around August/September.

 

KristinM-  It's so good you can recognize where you have imitated bad habits of your parents.  I actually kind of knew I was doing that,  but I still have not quite narrowed it down, nor figured out completely how to stop it. 

[[...]]

This group is on a role.  Three of us reporting windows in 3 consecutive posts!

My window has lasted several days now.

What I think is interesting is how fast I run out of steam.  By 5pm, I am exhausted.  But I generally had a good window day.  I guess this lack of stamina is part of withdrawal? 

 

[[Wo...]]

Yay for windows! I’m still in one. Bob yes I have had major exhaustion as a symptom for months. It’s cleared up in the last few days. Def can relate!

[[Gr...]]

I'm actually SO TIRED lately and also just ready to do nothing by 5pm.  I actually start to feel nauseous as well, so not exactly a window all day but for the most part, it is. 

[[...]]

Yeah GreenCup- that is it exactly.  Fortunately, the fatigue doesn't take over until after work so I can manage.  And my mornings and most of the day are pretty good lately.

Happy Mother's Day to all Moms in the world.  I wonder if this is just a USA thing?

I just finished making my mom dinner.

 

[[...]]

I started my micro dry taper of 0.001 mg per day at 0.125mg 25 days ago.

 

So today at hit the 0.100 mg level.

 

I know it is just a number but for some reason, exactly one-tenth of a milligram seems important.

 

If my symptoms get bad again, I will take Buspar for a few days.  It has worked twice in the past to keep my symptoms in check.

[[Wo...]]

Yay Bob!!!!!!!!

 

Total milestone. You will soon be part of the under .0.... club!!!

 

Woot woot!!!

 

Celebrate with a long magnesium bath LOL.

 

[[fl...]]

I haven't posted since the first month I started my taper back in September of 2017.  I was on .5 mg of klonopin for 26 years, briefly went up to 1. then back to .5 over the course of a year or so.  I am now below .05 mg and I'm having a horrible, horrible time.  I feel like a big jerk because I was doing okay and felt bad for others because they were struggling so much so I didn't post after the beginning.  Now I am on the brink of giving up---not going back up in dosage---and I need support so badly that here I am again.  I just don't have any hope left.  I am afraid of everything.  Everything looks wrong and ugly and misshapen.  Everything is too loud, too bright, too much. Everything sets me off.  I can't live in this world, but I'm desperately bored and filled with negative thoughts.  I can't read.  I can't interact.  Depression.  Anxiety.  Fatigue.  Insomnia.  And I have a lot of support.  I have a great husband, loyal friends, a quiet environment, but I just feel incredibly lonely and afraid every long minute of every day.  I try really hard.  I meditate.  I journal.  I eat well.  I try to sleep.  I've reached out to all my friends and family to thank them for being in my life.  I am so afraid that I'll never get out of this, that I tapered too fast--- only .002 mg a day, but too large a percentage---I held a couple of times recently but I haven't felt better.  I don't know whether I should keep going---I'm now tapering .001 mg a day---or hold, I'm so desperate.  I want to participate, but it's so scary reading other people's posts.  If you answer, please be kind; I know that I don't deserve to get responses when I haven't helped anyone else for a long time.  Just don't know what else to do.  I am so terrified.  68 years old and feel my life is over.  I need encouragement so badly!  Thanks!

[[...]]

Hey Flibberty,

 

Hang in there.  You will soon see you are just having acute withdrawal and it will pass.

 

You and I have very similar history.

 

I was on Klonopin for over a decade, generally 0.5 mg per day but I did go up to 1 mg briefly.

 

Like you, I started my taper from 0.5 mg about a half a year ago.

 

The big differences are:

    -I am tapering at 0.001 mg per day where as you were twice that amount

    -I already had one bad spell of acute withdrawal whereas you are having yours now.

 

If you hold your dose for 4 to 8 weeks, your body will normalize again and you can continue your taper.  It will be tough waiting so long.  You might want to consider a non-benzo relief so you can continue your taper.  When I had my acute withdrawal, the doctor gave me Buspar.  Three times now, during my taper, when the withdrawal symptoms where getting out of hand, I took the Buspar and it made things tolerable - not perfect - but tolerable.

 

I only take the Buspar in the mornings because if I take at night my sleep is weird.  But 3 times now it has reduced my withdrawal to a lower level (not perfect) so I can continue my 0.001 mg taper.  I take it for like a week and then I stop it with no problems.

 

I hold this helps you.

 

Hang in there.  You are going to get through this and be a new person when it is over.

 

[[fl...]]

Thank you, Bob7, for your very helpful and kind reply!  I am so confused about holding/tapering.  I have held for more than a week at a time twice, and both times I felt worse each day I held. And I have had amazing windows, a day at a time, when I have been tapering. So that's why I've continued to taper.  It's felt as if my body were urging me forward.    Any thoughts?  When you have held, have the fatigue and insomnia let up?  Are you feeling normalish or better sometimes?  I'm so afraid of taking any other medications, so I'm not sure about the buspar.  I do take magnesium.

 

Thanks so much for your encouragement.  I am so glad I found this group, and I intend to acquaint myself with everyone.  Wishing all a good night's rest.

[[Wo...]]

Hi Fibberty,

 

Welcome!!!

 

You are in a good group here. We are all gentle and supportive.

 

I can relate to your symptoms. I went through an acute like phase from Feb to about end of March and it was very hard to say the least. I have a video I made on my YouTube channel PositiveBenzoWithdrawal of the 25 things I did to get through that time. Maybe you will find it helpful?

 

I experienced a lot of what you describe and felt like I should updose because all along my taper I had always stabilized and had windows after a period of adjustment after a cut and I wasn’t stabilizing. I was in disbelief and I too felt like an idiot for judging other people.

 

What happened was that I believe I tapered a little more confidently than I should have. I felt so good that I dropped my dose when I should have held. I also got a case of bronchitis and two flus back to back and I got some really devastating family news. All of those factors crashed my CNS and I went into acute. I didn’t updose nor did I keep cutting orneven jump as some well intentioned but misguided folks suggested. I just kept holding and held for 2 months. The longest id ever held was 3 weeks just once back in Nov.

 

I didn’t believe I would stabilize and then.... I started getting small windows. Sometimes just an hour here and there. And I decided to heck with stabilizing I’d just focus on having gratitude for windows. And then the windows got a little bigger and a little longer and so on and so forth until one day about a week ago I stabilized. And by stable I mean I haven’t had any “waves”. I’ve still had some symptoms like DR but that’s it. During the days of mainly windows i did drop my dose again and am now at .03.

 

So. I do believe you will get better. You can try holding if you’d like.

 

At this point I’m not sure when I’ll cut again. I want to keep going and I am scared of going too fast so I’m just praying about it and will go with what comes.

 

All the best to you!

[[fl...]]

Thank you, WonderWoman!  I will definitely check out your 25 things; I have had a huge problem keeping things positive, although I have tried so hard.  When nothing is in my head but anxiety, the negative thoughts surge in.  And thanks for sharing your story.  It's so helpful to hear exactly how you've managed.  It sounds like you are very in tune with it all, and I'm hoping your last .03 mg will go smoothly.  I'm still not sure whether to hold or continue at .001 per day but, with your strategies in mind, I'll feel my way along.  Thanks again!

[[Gr...]]

Hey Flibberty- I am sorry you are suffering right now.  I am constantly surprised at symtpoms that pop up AGES later after a cut.  I honestly think my muscle tension that I have now, was triggered by cuts I did last summer and maybe even before.  The healing from this stuff is not linear and often doesn't make logical sense with its timeline.

[[...]]

Hi Flipberty,

Yes, when I hold the insomina and fatigue reduce but sometimes the hold is 4 to 8 weeks unless I take the Buspar to speed it up.

[[fl...]]

Thanks so much to you all for your welcomes, and thanks to you, WonderWoman, for starting this group.  I have read all of the posts now and I feel like I walked into a quiet room and started yelling; my apologies.  What a warm, supportive group you are---I feel so lucky to have found you.  I would have responded more quickly but I am in Brooklyn (from Virginia) this week, partially in charge of my grandchildren, ages 5 and 2, and it has been a huge challenge.  That said, it makes me recognize more than ever my desperate need for something meaningful to do during this horrible time.  Several of you have remarked on how fortunate you are to have jobs/families during this ordeal, and even though I've been way overstimulated and gotten very little sleep, I actually had a window today, the first in a couple of weeks.  The right kind of distraction is so important.  When I go back home, I am going to follow through on a volunteer job I've been interested in for a long time. There are so many things I want to respond to in your posts, but I must go to bed now, as I still have a day and a half to go and need to try to sleep.  Thanks again; wishing you all open windows.

[[Gr...]]

Flibberty- I'm glad your grandchildren are helping you see some positive things.  My son definitely helps me to see good in the world when I am feeling so negative.  I think this is part of the natural purpose of children, maybe. 

 

Bob, Kristin, Wonderwoman, Heather - How is everyone?  Bob and WW- are you still having windows?

 

I was in a window and then it came crashing down when I couldn't sleep one night, last week.  I was just anxious and could not stop my mind from worrying. It was all made worse if I picked up my phone and started searching things on the internet.  This went on for about four or five days and the anxiety got worse and worse.  It seems to be a bit better today.  I was able to get to sleep around midnight instead of around 2am and that made a big difference, I think. 

 

My energy feels zapped and I'm pretty tired.  I had to give up coffee last month because of upset stomachs.  I miss coffee but I'm not sure I'm ready to go back yet. 

[[...]]

Flibberty- I'm glad your grandchildren are helping you see some positive things.  My son definitely helps me to see good in the world when I am feeling so negative.  I think this is part of the natural purpose of children, maybe. 

 

Bob, Kristin, Wonderwoman, Heather - How is everyone?  Bob and WW- are you still having windows?

 

I was in a window and then it came crashing down when I couldn't sleep one night, last week.  I was just anxious and could not stop my mind from worrying. It was all made worse if I picked up my phone and started searching things on the internet.  This went on for about four or five days and the anxiety got worse and worse.  It seems to be a bit better today.  I was able to get to sleep around midnight instead of around 2am and that made a big difference, I think. 

 

My energy feels zapped and I'm pretty tired.  I had to give up coffee last month because of upset stomachs.  I miss coffee but I'm not sure I'm ready to go back yet. 

Hi GreenCup,

Yes, I can say I am in a window but it is funny.  The longer you feel a little better, the less the particular window feels like a window.  It is like you forget how bad the waves are.  What I mean is, I am probably feeling about the same over the last 10 days but it doesn't feel as good as when my wave first stopped.  Not sure I made any sense.  But the good news is I am still tapering at 0.001 mg per day.  But doing that for about a month.  95 days to go to be a zero.

 

Sorry your window was broken - losing sleep is like one of my worse fears since I still have to go into the office 3 or 4 days a week.  I am glad you are saying it feels a bit better today.

Bob