Valium/Diazepam Support Group

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Thank you Mary.  I am going to hold here until I stabilize.  It seems to be the reasonable thing to do!

[[bl...]]

Hello group:

 

I decided, last week, after having noted that many on this forum are using liquid V and have shared positive results--to give it a try.

 

The product has to be ordered and ought to be ready tomorrow.

 

It is Diazempam 5mg/5ml (1 mg/ml) qty: 180. Assume that is 180 mg. The bottle is like what cough syrup comes in.

 

Would be interested in any tips and insights about using the liquid form. Also, droppers and calibrations.

 

As has been expressed by so many members--go slow--thought I might look at taking this approach with liquid rather than haphazardly cutting or trimming pills.

 

Tips appreciated.

 

One last note--have not been cutting for some time while waiting to finish pills and go on liquid. However, once last week and once this week, I woke up too early and unable to fall back asleep. Both occasions, I did--yes I did--take a 2 mg dose. It simply did not and does not help with returning to sleep and virtually has no effect. Shall not repeat this again and only serves to irritate my groggy decision-making. 

 

Cheers and thanks for input.

 

Update--have two different droppers. Appears 1 ml = 1 mg.

 

 

[[de...]]

I CTed .25 2x/day Klonopin 3 weeks ago. I hadn't been able to get a V crossover rx. Long story short, this CT has been a nightmare. (K got very paradoxical, I tried to taper, nothing seemed to help, and at least by CT I thought I could stop reinjuring my body). My question is: Do people ever successfully try a valium taper by starting V three weeks after a CT? Like if I was to somehow fins a practitioner to help, is this even a viable option this far away from K? Anyone experience this or start V after a few weeks off of K? Please let me know. I feel so distraught and am searching for anything that might help. Thanks.

[[Ma...]]

I CTed .25 2x/day Klonopin 3 weeks ago. I hadn't been able to get a V crossover rx. Long story short, this CT has been a nightmare. (K got very paradoxical, I tried to taper, nothing seemed to help, and at least by CT I thought I could stop reinjuring my body). My question is: Do people ever successfully try a valium taper by starting V three weeks after a CT? Like if I was to somehow fins a practitioner to help, is this even a viable option this far away from K? Anyone experience this or start V after a few weeks off of K? Please let me know. I feel so distraught and am searching for anything that might help. Thanks.

 

Delsol, I would ask this on Withdrawal Support Group also.  A lot more people will read it.  Hopefully you will get some more answers . 

[[ki...]]

Hello group:

 

I decided, last week, after having noted that many on this forum are using liquid V and have shared positive results--to give it a try.

 

The product has to be ordered and ought to be ready tomorrow.

 

It is Diazempam 5mg/5ml (1 mg/ml) qty: 180. Assume that is 180 mg. The bottle looks white in the Walgreen status update.

 

Would be interested in any tips and insights about using the liquid form. Also, droppers and calibrations.

 

As has been expressed by so many members--go slow--thought I might look at taking this approach with liquid rather than haphazardly cutting or trimming pills.

 

Tips appreciated.

 

One last note--have not been cutting for some time while waiting to finish pills and go on liquid. However, once last week and once this week, I woke up too early and unable to fall back asleep. Both occasions, I did--yes I did--take a 2 mg dose. It simply did not and does not help with returning to sleep and virtually has no effect. Shall not repeat this again and only serves to irritate my groggy decision-making. 

 

Cheers and thanks for input.

 

I had the same issue when I tried a rescue dose. It’s best to just stick with the dose you’re at and work out a taper plan. Beings you’re going to switch over to liquid, I would do it gradually and hold your dose for a little while once you’re on the liquid. I crossed over from home brew liquid to Rx liquid in 12 days and kept tapering during that whole time. I think the uptick in symptoms I had during the month of March was in part due to not switching slower and continuing to taper during that time. Things have leveled out quite a bit since then though!

 

The Rx liquid doesn’t taste that great. It’s a sugary mint flavor. The more you dilute it, the less you’ll notice the flavor. I use 1 ml of Rx liquid and 9 ml distilled water to make my solution (and make more than 1 mg worth at a time so I don’t have to make a new solution daily). This yields a solution that has 1 mg of diazepam per 10 ml of liquid (1:10 ratio). You’ll want to use nice round numbers so that it’s easy to go between mg and ml.

 

I’ll give you an example of my dose today: I dose twice a day and am at 1.008 mg x2 (2.016 mg). I just multiply the dose by 10 to get the amount of liquid I need to take per dose, so 1.008 x 10 = 10.08 ml. In your case at 4 mg, you’d be dosing 40 ml of the diluted diazepam solution. I use a 10 ml oral syringe to draw up 10 ml of liquid and a 1 ml oral syringe to draw up the .08 ml.

 

If you use my method, I recommend glass mason jars, 16 oz capacity with tight-fitting lids. 10 ml and 1 ml oral syringes (can be purchased from Amazon, I like the Caretouch brand, these are one use, but I rinse them and reuse them for several days before tossing them). I also use a 100 ml glass graduated cylinder. The graduated cylinder is useful because it gives me a way to ensure that I am using the same amount of Rx liquid every time I make my solution (always go by the meniscus). I don’t know what type of bottle your medication will come in, but mine comes in a orange-tinted plastic bottle. Eventually the level of medication in the bottle was too low for me to use my 10 ml syringe to draw it up, so I bought some bottle stoppers to allow me to turn the bottle upside down to draw out the liquid, you could also likely use a long medicine dropper or pipette for this instead if you want. You can store the solution at room temperature, away from light and heat sources.

 

I hope this helps!

[[jt...]]

Hello everyone,

I hope you all have been well and staying safe. I am feeling a bit lost. In January I had found a benzo wise doctor. He is 3.5 hours away so we have been doing televisits. I will be cutting down to 15mg next week. I have symptoms including tinnitus and a little depression after my cuts then it settles of course this pandemic has kept me inside for months so that’s contributing to it as well. My tapering doctor said he goes by the Ashton manual but I asked if it could be modified he said yes. But he also said I seemed depressed and to see my primary care physician which i explained no way that’s the guy that put me on this stuff and tried to put me on Prozac while I was on Xanax. I feel so lost I just need some positive vibes since my tapering doctor told me today “I’m no expert you probably know more than I do about this stuff.” I asked him how many patients he’s tapering off and he said 40. He said he’s sorry I’m not symptom-free. Give or take it could be worse.  I am fighting to get through this. Sorry just had to vent I’ve been going through this alone.

-Jt

 

 

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Kitsune556

 

Oh--yes sneaking in a dose like I did is futile. Fortunately, only on two occasions. In general, at 4 mg the affect is not noticeable. However, it does seem to help with sleep along with 50 mg trazodone. I do prefer just the Trazadone, and feel it is a safer alternative which I had used for years for night shift/day time sleeping and to ease migraines. I suspect that V does have a "depressive effect" upon waking up and look forward to getting down towards 2 mg and eventually a completed taper. The two rescue doses were taken around 4 am about six hours after I consumed a 5 to 10 mg 1 to 1 CBD/THC gummy. My intuition tells me that such does interfere with sleep and taper, particularly the CBD. So, if one is going to take a respite with any cannabis use--best to do so at least 8 hours before sleep or not at all until taper is near end or thereafter. I am not a drinker but even Ashton's manual approves of a nip here and there (the British!) I got a kick out of her statement.

 

Just picked up my script.

 

It is orange flavor in a bottle like one receives for cough syrup. The conversion is 1mg=1ml at 180 doses. The two syringes are calibrated the long thin one is 1 ml marked at 1/10 ml which is a about right for me as I reduce by 10ths etc. Though will look for a better one on Amazon.

 

And, yes, plan to stay on 4 mg for a few weeks and drop ever so slowly.

 

The bottle does look cumbersome and might pour small portions into an old pill bottle for ease of use. Thanks for the storage info. wondered if room temp was ok.

 

Adding 4 mg to water and drinking is a good idea. Also, will check out your method and drop by Amazon and review the mentioned products.

 

Appreciate your time and input. Will keep you posted.

 

Stay safe and sound

 

Blue001

 

PS Ordered the care touch syringes.

[[Ma...]]

Hello everyone,

I hope you all have been well and staying safe. I am feeling a bit lost. In January I had found a benzo wise doctor. He is 3.5 hours away so we have been doing televisits. I will be cutting down to 15mg next week. I have symptoms including tinnitus and a little depression after my cuts then it settles of course this pandemic has kept me inside for months so that’s contributing to it as well. My tapering doctor said he goes by the Ashton manual but I asked if it could be modified he said yes. But he also said I seemed depressed and to see my primary care physician which i explained no way that’s the guy that put me on this stuff and tried to put me on Prozac while I was on Xanax. I feel so lost I just need some positive vibes since my tapering doctor told me today “I’m no expert you probably know more than I do about this stuff.” I asked him how many patients he’s tapering off and he said 40. He said he’s sorry I’m not symptom-free. Give or take it could be worse.  I am fighting to get through this. Sorry just had to vent I’ve been going through this alone.

-Jt

 

Jt, I am afraid most of us have Dr's with little knowledge, but it's great you have a Dr that will let you guide your taper.  Most of us have gained our knowledge from bb.  We understand the depression, a lot of people have depression and that was before the virus.  The virus , at this time , seems to be affecting a lot of our moods.  It's just so much to take in a long with withdrawal.  Anytime you need to vent or just discuss something, we will always be here for you.  What change were you thinking about making to your taper, maybe we can help, if you want to discuss it?  Mary 🙋🏼🙋🏼

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Mary5588

 

You are correct. Fortunately, my doc has allowed me to proceed as I see fit. I seem to be giving him and his nurse a valuable lesson on tapering. He is a specialist and prescribes lots of benzos due to the nature of his practice. I am lucky he helped me and bypassed the HMO constraining system I was in until first of the year.

 

Like you mentioned to jt418 some of us didn't realize we were more depressive than anxious until began using benzos. Easy to mix up agitation symptoms with anxiety.

 

Take care jt418--30 million people at any given time are dealing with depression. And I understand what you are experiencing.

 

Cheers

[[jt...]]

Thank you guys. I always try to avoid the trigger horror stories. I told my tapering doctor I’m worried about random symptoms popping up later. At the beginning of my taper I was fearless now I’m just coping. All I can do is try to remain optimistic. I am sure the depression is from losing weight and with everything going on in the world. I wish there were something I could take for my mood. I do take cbd at night and melatonin since that’s what helped me sleep when I had Xanax interdose withdrawals. The last primary care doctor I went to get tapering help from gave me lexapro and told me to taper off in 4 weeks. I never took the lexapro because I didn’t want to stack another med on top Or rapid taper. Regarding the tapering doctor I have he is my last hope. I live in Houston and drove to Austin to see him with my wife and baby while going through interdose Xanax withdrawals. It was manageable but rough. There’s no way I’m going to find a primary care doctor right now with the whole virus stuff going on at the moment. As for the stress I’m experiencing is from thinking about the tapering. My whole life revolves around this now and I usually just want to watch a movie or curl up in a ball. I’ve been staring at the ceiling in my room for 5 months now. So in the Ashton manual I am on schedule 7 which skips from 14mg to stopping diazepam mid day then goes from 12mg to 10mg stopping diazepam in the morning. So I asked my doctor to let me continue cutting 16-15-14-13-12-11mg and then 10mg. I don’t have an option to liquid taper or shave pills as I’ve had issues with my cvs pharmacy at the beginning which is ok now but  also my doctor only gives me a 14 day supply for each cut. I am dry cutting and told him let’s see how I do once we hit 10mg. I might continue cutting and when I hit 5mg drop by .5mg

Sorry for the rant this is the only place I can open up. Much love ❤️

-Jt

[[Ma...]]

jt, I have found few people that can keep up with the Ashton model.  It's too fast for many of us and I am afraid that's where you are headed.  You've cut half your dose in 4 months and you seem to be feeling pretty bad.  What you want from your taper , if your Dr will work with you, Is to match your taper to your symptoms, and try to make them tolerable.  You could hold for awhile and then start tapering that .5 you are thinking about.  It's my opinion, but if you try to make it to 5 mgs before you lower your cuts, you are going to be in bad shape.  You have a chance to slow it down now and get more stable and start again.  It's just a suggestion, I wish you lots of luck, no matter your decision.

Mary 🍀🍀

[[To...]]

Hi Jt

 

I'm in a similar boat as you, same med, same dose, nearly same amount of time (1.5 mg alprazolam, almost five years). I also switched to Valium to taper but the doctor would only prescribe 15 milligrams. I've since tapered down to 0.4. I started tapering at roughly the Ashton rate but have had to slow down. Hopefully you'll find a rate that works best for you with minimal symptoms. Best of luck -

 

Tom

[[jt...]]

Thanks everyone. Healing hugs! I’m somewhat stabilized a bit today the depression has settled a bit. It might have been my recent cut and I tried a new cbd brand yesterday which gave me anxiety could’ve caused it too. So I’m switching back to the old one I use every night. It’s what I’ve been using since my Xanax interdose withdrawals along with melatonin to sleep. I’ve heard that melatonin can cause depression as well. I’m pretty careful to not introduce any new supplements. My wife said she did research and ordered me stuff some supplements but I haven’t looked yet. What days do you guys start feeling the cuts? I believe mine is about close to a week. I’m still trying to pay attention to symptoms with cuts. The main thing I have noticed is buzzing ears or tinnitus a little louder. I had muscle cramps at the beginning but bananas helped and the cramps come and go. I cut according to Ashton when I was at 30mg -2.25mg every 2 weeks because it was sedating and I was on a higher dose. Once I hit 20mg I slowed to -1mg to keep it under 10%. Most likely I will slow down I’ll have a conversation with my doctor when I get to 10mg. Tom PM me I’d like to hear more about your story.

-Much love you all, Jt

 

[[go...]]

jt and Tom - I would like to add that once I was under 2 mg. I was able to tolerate up to 20% daily rates of reduction.  But, when I tried to reduce at about .5 mg every 17 days that started putting me at a daily rate of 44% or so and led to having to hold.  Ashton actually advocates dropping .5 every 14 days and then even jumping at .5 I think.  For me, I am now holding at .19 because the daily rate reduction had been too high and led to a crushing wave.  When I resume I will take it much slower at the end.  Jumping at .5 obviously would not have worked well for me.

 

I used daily reductions by weighing cut pills until I got to 1 mg. because I had 2 mg. pills.  At 1 mg. I switched to liquid.

 

My husband prepares my doses.  I have liquid that is 5 mg/5 ml.  He mixes 5 mg. (which is 5 ml) with 495 ml of water.  Then we know that for every ml we get .01 mg.  Then he can either use a syringe and count ml or use a scale and weigh mg of liquid because at that point 1 ml of liquid weighs 1 mg. and contains .01 mg of valium.  He prefers to weigh the liquid.  He says it is the magic of the metric system that 1 ml of water weighs 1 mg.  The resulting liquid is then highly diluted so it does not taste so bad.  Also at that point, any errors in measurement are minimized.

 

If only the withdrawal process were this straightforward!

[[va...]]

Hi,

 

Is anyone taking a combination of pill plus liquid? A 2mg leo pill plus 0.20 mgs in drops brand kern. My doctor wants me to stop cutting pills and to start this new method tomorrow. I hope everyone's having a tolerable taper.

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hi Jt

 

I'm in a similar boat as you, same med, same dose, nearly same amount of time (1.5 mg alprazolam, almost five years). I also switched to Valium to taper but the doctor would only prescribe 15 milligrams. I've since tapered down to 0.4. I started tapering at roughly the Ashton rate but have had to slow down. Hopefully you'll find a rate that works best for you with minimal symptoms. Best of luck -

 

Tom

I am at 12 mg Val.  Looks like you had a timely taper.  Afraid to ask, but was it tolerable?  Thanks!

[[Ma...]]

Hi,

 

Is anyone taking a combination of pill plus liquid? A 2mg leo pill plus 0.20 mgs in drops brand kern. My doctor wants me to stop cutting pills and to start this new method tomorrow. I hope everyone's having a tolerable taper.

 

I only take Liquid Diazapam Val, but I just had to jump in here and say hi and that we are thinking about you!  Hope you are okay and being safe .  Love you, Mary 🙋🏼🙋🏼🙋🏼🙋🏼

[[va...]]

Hi Mary, yes I'm OK. Thank you. I know you're holding up as sometimes I peep into the LHSG but not long enough to catch up and answer properly. I guess we're all doing our best to manage this chaos plus the taper. Let's see what the future brings to our economy and our lives. I hope you, husband and dog are doing great in spite of the circumstances. Take care. I'm starting with this mixed formula tomorrow and I may come in and report how it goes after a month, as we both know this drug doesn't show its ugly teeth immediately. I'm on 2.20 now (dry cut), and I won't make a cut tomorrow. I'll stay on 2.20 but switching from Valium brand cut pills, to leo brand 2mg pill plus kern brand 0.20 mgs drops. Take care.

[[ki...]]

Val, I think Momof7babes is doing pills and liquid. Hopefully she will chime in.

[[bl...]]

Hi all

 

Looks like many are going liquid.

 

A question: I am using 1 mg CareTouch syringe just received yesterday. It is well marked and last 0.1 mg ends right at bottom.

 

The tip also holds some liquid. Appears minuscule. Wonder if this small amount in tip effects accurate dosage.

 

Kitsune556--you are correct horrible taste but tolerable for me.

 

Thanks

[[ki...]]

Hi all

 

Looks like many are going liquid.

 

A question: I am using 1 mg CareTouch syringe just received yesterday. It is well marked and last 0.1 mg ends right at bottom.

 

The tip also holds some liquid. Appears minuscule. Wonder if this small amount in tip effects accurate dosage.

 

Kitsune556--you are correct horrible taste but tolerable for me.

 

Thanks

 

I think the small amount in the tip doesn’t make a difference, unless you are hypersensitive, which I think is fairly rare. I wouldn’t worry about it. ❤️

[[bl...]]

Kitsune556

 

Thank you.

 

The syringe quality is great--

 

Cheers

[[To...]]

Hi Jt

 

I'm in a similar boat as you, same med, same dose, nearly same amount of time (1.5 mg alprazolam, almost five years). I also switched to Valium to taper but the doctor would only prescribe 15 milligrams. I've since tapered down to 0.4. I started tapering at roughly the Ashton rate but have had to slow down. Hopefully you'll find a rate that works best for you with minimal symptoms. Best of luck -

 

Tom

I am at 12 mg Val.  Looks like you had a timely taper.  Afraid to ask, but was it tolerable?  Thanks!

 

Hi Lookinup

 

The taper has been challenging for sure, but the finish line is in sight. At the roughest times it has been a matter of just hanging in there, because time passes no matter what and if we keep persevering and stay committed to a taper we will get off this stuff.

[[va...]]

Thanks kitsune 

[[Ma...]]

I was forced to change from mylan to teva diazapam 2 months ago. I’ve done a slow crossover because I’m already in bad shape. I’m a 3 out of 4 mg. I’m getting sicker by the day.  It’s started with severe wd and I assumed I had to stabilize. Does this sound like this generic is not going to work for me after taking it for 2 months? Should I have stabilized by now?  The only other option is brand .