Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Jo...]]

Hi,

 

My muscles are very painful. I'm in so much pain lots of times. Tendons in legs tight. Does anyone here have that pain too?

And if so, has anyone taking a muscle relaxant for that?

I am thinking about asking my Dr. to prescribe me some.

 

I would stay away from muscle relaxants. Many of them can be problematic. Muscle pain is very common in withdrawal, I have it in my shoulders/neck/upper back most often and get it in my legs and hips as well. Some gentle yoga can help and sometimes I do a hot shower or lay on a heating pad.

What helps me so much is this massaging collar I got on Amazon. I put it around my neck and shoulders and it does percussive massage. Heaven while it is on. Very distracting from the tension.

 

What's the name of it 

Naipo Shiatsu Back and Neck... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D2UJVGS?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

Just bought one, thank you for sharing!

 

You are so welcome and I hope it helps you. I got one for my son (he sells and delivers safes) and it helps him too, and he has huge muscles that get very messed up. You can adjust the strength of the massage. For me it has to be super low.

[[Ma...]]

Hi,

 

My muscles are very painful. I'm in so much pain lots of times. Tendons in legs tight. Does anyone here have that pain too?

And if so, has anyone taking a muscle relaxant for that?

I am thinking about asking my Dr. to prescribe me some.

 

I would stay away from muscle relaxants. Many of them can be problematic. Muscle pain is very common in withdrawal, I have it in my shoulders/neck/upper back most often and get it in my legs and hips as well. Some gentle yoga can help and sometimes I do a hot shower or lay on a heating pad.

What helps me so much is this massaging collar I got on Amazon. I put it around my neck and shoulders and it does percussive massage. Heaven while it is on. Very distracting from the tension.

 

What's the name of it 

Naipo Shiatsu Back and Neck... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D2UJVGS?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

Thank you!  I will check it out 

[[or...]]

 

Thanks, Joy. I'm checking it out also. I spend all day at my computer and get very sore neck and shoulder muscles.

 

 

Katz

[[Jo...]]

U r so welcome!

[[Tr...]]

Is there a " body pack "?  - every muscle in my body hurts.

[[Ma...]]

Is there a " body pack "?  - every muscle in my body hurts.

 

Not sure what you mean, heat, cold, or just something to support your body?  Honestly, Amazon has almost everything you can think of in the pain department.  Just make sure you read the reviews. 

I am so sorry you are hurting Trouch.  It sucks, I know.  Mary 💜

[[Tr...]]

Hi Mary,

 

What I meant was something like the neck massage thing mentioned earlier, but now where the whole body fits in. Kind of a diver outfit. Was just kidding.

 

Suddenly,  shortly after lunch, the pain stopped more or less and the fatigue left too. So instead of going to bed for an hour feeling miserable,  I went outside and let the sunshine warm me for and hour and a half. Wonderful. You mentioned heat working best for you against the pain. I agree. The warmth of the sun felt so lovely and relaxing.

This benzo stuff is more than crazy. For no reason symptoms begin and ends. One hour you think you're dying, the next you're feeling so much better. Very frustrating!  You're right; benzos suck!  Trochsetter 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Mary,

 

What I meant was something like the neck massage thing mentioned earlier, but now where the whole body fits in. Kind of a diver outfit. Was just kidding.

 

Suddenly,  shortly after lunch, the pain stopped more or less and the fatigue left too. So instead of going to bed for an hour feeling miserable,  I went outside and let the sunshine warm me for and hour and a half. Wonderful. You mentioned heat working best for you against the pain. I agree. The warmth of the sun felt so lovely and relaxing.

This benzo stuff is more than crazy. For no reason symptoms begin and ends. One hour you think you're dying, the next you're feeling so much better. Very frustrating!  You're right; benzos suck!  Trochsetter 

 

So glad you got some relief Trouch.  Benzo symptoms are so damn weird, I totally agree.  You never know what will pop up , torment you awhile, and leave again.    :idiot:

[[de...]]

Okay I found a doc who is going to help me with a K to V crossover. I posted questions a few weeks ago, but here is some updated information. Brief recap: Have tried to deal with .5mg of Klonopin for months; tried splitting into two .25mg doses, am building toxicity in my system and am even getting allergic-type reactions and delirium now: Itching between fingers, "internal" sense of itching, bad stomach pain, restlessness and agitation, etc. Hit tolerance a while ago; things have gotten worse in the last week.

 

Soooo... I have reached a point of no return and have nothing to lose by trying a crossover. It doesn't work for everyone I realize. But I have exhausted all Kpin options. Even had someone help me do numbers for a liquid titration of K, but I know I won't make it on the K for the long haul.

 

My appointment is tomorrow. Please help me with what I need to provide!  Here are my questions:

 

1.) Due to severe Kpin reactions, is a rapid crossover to V worthwhile?

2.) If I am on .5mg Kpin, what would the equivalency be, or what is a simple way to figure it out? I am not good with numbers. I don't understand the equivalency charts online.

3.) If I plan to liquid taper Valium, should I ask for a liquid Valium script?

4.) If a genetic test has shown me to be a "poor metabolizer" of valium, would it be worthwhile to seek out a librium crossover?

5.) Best online resource for Ashton manual?

 

Ugh -- So much information. I feel so scared guys.  Kpin has been so hard on my system. But my body doesn't take well to any medication. I get hypersensitivity to almost any med I put into my body. Thanks in advance for help.

[[Kg...]]

Here is benzo converter for you to use. 

 

https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

The answer with cross over is it depends- some people do great on Valium, others do not.  No one can tell you what will happen with you and you won't know until you do it and give your body time to adjust.  Sorry but this is the truth.

 

Valium does come in liquid form so if you wish you can use all liquid. 

 

I don't know anything about genetic testing.

 

Yes Ashton is great but other boards can help you with a cross over - many people go slower and some go faster, again the answer of how you do this depends on your own body and how you adjust to the Valium and how fast you need to get off the Klonopin.

 

Don't be scared - many of us have done this and we are all fine now. 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

Here is benzo converter for you to use. 

 

https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

The answer with cross over is it depends- some people do great on Valium, others do not.  No one can tell you what will happen with you and you won't know until you do it and give your body time to adjust.  Sorry but this is the truth.

 

Valium does come in liquid form so if you wish you can use all liquid. 

 

I don't know anything about genetic testing.

 

Yes Ashton is great but other boards can help you with a cross over - many people go slower and some go faster, again the answer of how you do this depends on your own body and how you adjust to the Valium and how fast you need to get off the Klonopin.

 

Don't be scared - many of us have done this and we are all fine now.

 

You can just google Ashton Manual and print 2 copies, 1 for you and 1 for Dr.  Good luck.  IMO, you should cross slowly and taper slowly.  If you see you are doing well, then you can speed things up.

Hurrying might cause you to hit a wall, so be careful.  You are already not in a good place.  I wouldn't push from there.  Mary 💜

[[de...]]

Hi - Thanks everyone - More questions. Anyone have experience with a K to Librium crossover? The reason I ask is that my genetic testing said I don't metabolize valium very well. So maybe I should try librium instead.

 

Pros/cons Librium vs. Valium?  It appears V is the drug of choice, but is the difference not only half life but also the fact that V has more dosage options?

[[ki...]]

Hi - Thanks everyone - More questions. Anyone have experience with a K to Librium crossover? The reason I ask is that my genetic testing said I don't metabolize valium very well. So maybe I should try librium instead.

 

Pros/cons Librium vs. Valium?  It appears V is the drug of choice, but is the difference not only half life but also the fact that V has more dosage options?

 

I can’t speak to the crossover, but I do know Librium only comes in powder in capsules in the US, not sure about other countries. That can make it tricky to work with. There are several people who have successfully tapered from Librium here though.

 

I’m curious, what genetic test did you have done? I had the GeneSight test done and it said I was OK for Valium, but I have some genes that affect how it’s metabolized still.

[[Ma...]]

Hi - Thanks everyone - More questions. Anyone have experience with a K to Librium crossover? The reason I ask is that my genetic testing said I don't metabolize valium very well. So maybe I should try librium instead.

 

Pros/cons Librium vs. Valium?  It appears V is the drug of choice, but is the difference not only half life but also the fact that V has more dosage options?

 

1 person I know well, but I think she crossed from Xanax, don't quote me.  She crossed to Librium.

Put a post on Easier Taper Group and she will catch it.    .  Her name is Gardie.  Librium is like a weaker Valium, that's the best description I can give it, I thought of switching once and did quite a bit of reading on bb about it.

[[de...]]

Hi - Thanks everyone - More questions. Anyone have experience with a K to Librium crossover? The reason I ask is that my genetic testing said I don't metabolize valium very well. So maybe I should try librium instead.

 

Pros/cons Librium vs. Valium?  It appears V is the drug of choice, but is the difference not only half life but also the fact that V has more dosage options?

 

I can’t speak to the crossover, but I do know Librium only comes in powder in capsules in the US, not sure about other countries. That can make it tricky to work with. There are several people who have successfully tapered from Librium here though.

 

I’m curious, what genetic test did you have done? I had the GeneSight test done and it said I was OK for Valium, but I have some genes that affect how it’s metabolized still.

 

Yes, it was Gene Sight that I had done. V was the only benzo listed under the "poor metabolizer" column.

[[Wo...]]

Hey...

 

Back for some more support /guidance. Please 

 

I was put on 1mg Lorazepam 3 x a day when I was an inpatient at a mental health facility this year . I was there for 6 weeks. When I left I kinda knew I needed to get off these drugs as I knew they were going to be bad news for me the longer I was on them. I did my research and using the Ashton manual method alongside the guidance of my GP we decided to crossover over to diazepam and then make my way down. Because I wasn't on them for a particularly long time my GP recommended it would be a good idea to try and reduce a little quicker than it states in the manual and go with a more 'check in with your body and see how you feel' approach to making next moves. So my journey so far :

 

 

Start.  Morning 1mg lorazepam

            Noon.    1mg lorazepam

            Night.    1mg lorazepam

 

 

18/04 Morning 1mg lorazepam

            Noon.    1mg lorazepam

            Night.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

 

 

21/04 Morning 1mg lorazepam

            Noon.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

            Night.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

 

27/04 Morning 0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

            Noon.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

            Night.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

 

Wobbles slightly here - not with anxiety but mood

 

04/05 Morning 0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

            Noon.    0.5mg lorazepam + 5mg diazepam

            Night.    10mg diazepam

All standard Ashton guidance except the speed of it all. But as I said. And I had agreed. My GP wanted me off them as quick as I was comfortable with as I was only on them a short period.

 

Apart from the total lack of energy since moving over to diazepam gradually my moods and depression have taken a serious nose dive. And I mean, I don't want to get up in the morning, have zero pleasure in my day and generally just don't feel like i have a lot worth living for. Can diazepam be this depressive??? Crying, no desire in life, my family. General wishing what is the point. Or is this just the shitty effect of benzos in general.

 

Am I making any major faults. Or do I just need to learn to ride out the waves? Just concerned that every time a lorazepam dose is replaced with diazepam it seems my mood dips further. Could well all be in my head though. Also being back home with the reality of lockdown with the entire family and the daily intensity.

 

I'm sorry my post is so long. I legit don't have anyone to turn to when I feel low. And my biggest question I have in my head right now is am I doing something wrong.

 

Love to you all and happy VE Day from the UK

xxx

 

[[Ma...]]

Hey Working, Diazapam is known to cause depression in some people.  If you are feeling zero pleasure also fatigue plus the depression, IMO, you maybe going too fast.  I know in your Dr's mind, it makes sense to hurry off.  A lot of us can't and holding where you are now, until your symptoms become tolerable, is probably a good idea.  If you keep pushing , there is a good chance you will end up feeling worse.  Your brain and body will determine how fast you can go.  We all wish we could get off quickly.

Many of us are just too sensitive and have to go slower.  I am sorry you are feeling so down.  Valium is unlike most benzo's, it has a very long half life and 3 metabolites.  1 for anxiety, 1 for muscle relaxation, and 1 for sleeping.  They all have different half lives.  It can be a tricky benzo to crossover to.  It made me so sedated, I was on Xanax , I could barely hold my head up.  Please take your time and listen to your body.  Good luck.  Mary 💜

 

[[Wo...]]

Thanks so much for getting back to me Mary.

 

Probably a silly question, especially as I'm only 2 steps away from being wholly on the diazepam cross over but does anyone know if any people have ever resorted to going back onto the original benzo... in my case lorazepam... And working their way down from there. Or should I stick to it now I've come this far.

 

Thanks in advance for any response xx

[[ki...]]

Thanks so much for getting back to me Mary.

 

Probably a silly question, especially as I'm only 2 steps away from being wholly on the diazepam cross over but does anyone know if any people have ever resorted to going back onto the original benzo... in my case lorazepam... And working their way down from there. Or should I stick to it now I've come this far.

 

Thanks in advance for any response xx

There are people who don’t tolerate diazepam well and go back to the original benzo they were on. That is really up to you based on how you feel. After I switched over completely to diazepam I had an 11 day period where I felt really awful and depressed, but it diminished quickly after that.

[[Ma...]]

Thanks so much for getting back to me Mary.

 

Probably a silly question, especially as I'm only 2 steps away from being wholly on the diazepam cross over but does anyone know if any people have ever resorted to going back onto the original benzo... in my case lorazepam... And working their way down from there. Or should I stick to it now I've come this far.

 

Thanks in advance for any response xx

 

That is a hard question, there are people that have gone back, I don't remember any names.  You might could find information in the search engine under your Avatar.  I thought about it and many times wish I had.  It's a hard call, your body may adapt to the Valium if you give it time.  Everyone reacts differently.  You might ask the question on the Withdrawal Support thread, more people will read it there.  And before making that decision, you need as much information as you can get.  It's a difficult decision.  Good luck, we will be here to support you no matter what you decide .  💜💜

[[bl...]]

Hello Group:

 

Hope everyone is doing well.

 

Have a couple of questions and appreciate your input:

 

1. At 4 mg cutting will, inevitably, be haphazard by attempting to shave pills.

 

My insurance covers what they term 5mg/5ml oral solution. And confirmed with pharmacist that they have calibrated dropper.

 

How has the oral solution been for you all, see that many are using once down to lower level.

 

2. Have been taking my 4 mg V at night then a 50 mg trazodone (side effect is often day time sluggishness) an hour later. Going to sleep has been ok though often wake up to use bathroom. If have slept for six hours, typically, have trouble falling back asleep. 

 

However, what gets me is the day time fatigue. Even after over six/seven hours sleep feel de-energized/fatigued all day. Likely--the combo of V and trazodone.

 

Wonder, would it be of benefit to spread the 4 mg dose out to twice a day--as I begin slowly tapering with oral solution.

 

Also, have noticed a bit of day time unease/low level anxiety recently, and wonder if this is--par for the course--when one takes full dose at bedtime. Have been following Ashton advice per her once a day dosing. And realize now her method is very aggressive with cuts as one gets down to > 4 mg.

 

Lastly, have read recent comments and noted that V has a depressive tendency and/or increases existing depression.

 

Long winded again.

 

Thanks and cheers,

 

Blue001

 

 

[[ki...]]

Hello Group:

 

Hope everyone is doing well.

 

Have a couple of questions and appreciate your input:

 

1. At 4 mg cutting will, inevitably, be haphazard by attempting to shave pills.

 

My insurance covers what they term 5mg/5ml oral solution. And confirmed with pharmacist that they have calibrated dropper.

 

How has the oral solution been for you all, see that many are using once down to lower level.

 

2. Have been taking my 4 mg V at night then a 50 mg trazodone (side effect is often day time sluggishness) an hour later. Going to sleep has been ok though often wake up to use bathroom. If have slept for six hours, typically, have trouble falling back asleep. 

 

However, what gets me is the day time fatigue. Even after over six/seven hours sleep feel de-energized/fatigued all day. Likely--the combo of V and trazodone.

 

Wonder, would it be of benefit to spread the 4 mg dose out to twice a day--as I begin slowly tapering with oral solution.

 

Also, have noticed a bit of day time unease/low level anxiety recently, and wonder if this is--par for the course--when one takes full dose at bedtime. Have been following Ashton advice per her once a day dosing. And realize now her method is very aggressive with cuts as one gets down to > 4 mg.

 

Lastly, have read recent comments and noted that V has a depressive tendency and/or increases existing depression.

 

Long winded again.

 

Thanks and cheers,

 

Blue001

 

Liquid I believe is the most accurate way to microtaper. My first taper I ground up my tablets with a mortar and pestle then weighed the amount I needed and put it in a gel capsule. That was a lot of work, but it got me from 8 mg to .48 mg. Liquid makes it so I don’t have to think about tapering as much and it’s much less time consuming.

 

As far as symptoms you’re having, I find that my body is trying to tell me something when my symptoms increase. And that something is usually “slow down!”  :laugh: Ashton is too fast for many, but it’s a good starting point to help get doctors on board with a slow, safe taper. Beings Valium has a long half-life most people are fine taking it once daily. My previous taper that’s what I did. This time around I split my doses so I take 1.1 mg in the morning and again at night. I think this helps keep a more even level of the drug in my system.

 

As far as depression goes, my worst depression on V was when I first started taking it and it has leveled off. I found when I was going too fast I developed anger problems and that is often a symptom of depression, but once I slowed down it diminished. I had pretty awful depression when I was on K as well, but it was different. I cried a lot more and had persistent ideation. I haven’t had those issues on V.

[[Jo...]]

I can get through just about anything, as long as I hear from the group that these are symptoms you have survived, or are in process of surviving. It's just if I know I am not alone, on top of this horrific pandemic, that will get me through. Do you have/had:

Rolling, cyclic panic attacks

Hair loss that erodes your self esteem

Trembling from deep in your core

Feeling out of your own self

Heart skips and blips for hours

Nighttime dread, fear of the night

Dizziness and unsteadiness

Feeling tight in the neck and shoulders

Feeling light headed

Feeling you are dying

Tearful

It seems like a lot, but these come and go.  Daily. After all these months it gets exhausting. Beats you down. For the last 2 weeks, it's been a lot of shaking and feeling dizzy (not vertigo). Anyone? I can hang in there, if there is hope.... 

 

[[bl...]]

Hello Group:

 

Hope everyone is doing well.

 

Have a couple of questions and appreciate your input:

 

1. At 4 mg cutting will, inevitably, be haphazard by attempting to shave pills.

 

My insurance covers what they term 5mg/5ml oral solution. And confirmed with pharmacist that they have calibrated dropper.

 

How has the oral solution been for you all, see that many are using once down to lower level.

 

2. Have been taking my 4 mg V at night then a 50 mg trazodone (side effect is often day time sluggishness) an hour later. Going to sleep has been ok though often wake up to use bathroom. If have slept for six hours, typically, have trouble falling back asleep. 

 

However, what gets me is the day time fatigue. Even after over six/seven hours sleep feel de-energized/fatigued all day. Likely--the combo of V and trazodone.

 

Wonder, would it be of benefit to spread the 4 mg dose out to twice a day--as I begin slowly tapering with oral solution.

 

Also, have noticed a bit of day time unease/low level anxiety recently, and wonder if this is--par for the course--when one takes full dose at bedtime. Have been following Ashton advice per her once a day dosing. And realize now her method is very aggressive with cuts as one gets down to > 4 mg.

 

Lastly, have read recent comments and noted that V has a depressive tendency and/or increases existing depression.

 

Long winded again.

 

Thanks and cheers,

 

Blue001

 

Liquid I believe is the most accurate way to microtaper. My first taper I ground up my tablets with a mortar and pestle then weighed the amount I needed and put it in a gel capsule. That was a lot of work, but it got me from 8 mg to .48 mg. Liquid makes it so I don’t have to think about tapering as much and it’s much less time consuming.

 

As far as symptoms you’re having, I find that my body is trying to tell me something when my symptoms increase. And that something is usually “slow down!”  :laugh: Ashton is too fast for many, but it’s a good starting point to help get doctors on board with a slow, safe taper. Beings Valium has a long half-life most people are fine taking it once daily. My previous taper that’s what I did. This time around I split my doses so I take 1.1 mg in the morning and again at night. I think this helps keep a more even level of the drug in my system.

 

As far as depression goes, my worst depression on V was when I first started taking it and it has leveled off. I found when I was going too fast I developed anger problems and that is often a symptom of depression, but once I slowed down it diminished. I had pretty awful depression when I was on K as well, but it was different. I cried a lot more and had persistent ideation. I haven’t had those issues on V.

 

Thanks Kitsune556

 

I may try 1 mg day time and 3 mg at PM. And taper (tiny amounts) between the two doses starting with day time after several weeks of using oral V. Then drop a small amount of PM--like you say to keep drug level stable.

 

My depression seems to wake up right along with me in the morning as ruminations. Such is not as pervasive during the day as in the past, the wake up ruminations are abating ever so slowly. Meditation and several books have helped me understand the natural pervasiveness of ruminations, looping thoughts and aversion.

 

I understand anger for prior to my use of benzos last year I was angry for many years due to an onslaught of events. With anger, typically, below the surface is unaccepted/unrecognized/unconscious anxiety and or fear, and often a subterfuge for depression of varying degrees. It was not until I got in this mess with sleep issues-benzos did such become apparent.

 

Looking forward to other recommendations and input.

 

Cheers

[[Ma...]]

Blue,

Can you share what books helped you withe looping thoughts and ruminations?