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I am creating a new thread in the Support Groups section, because our other thread is in Buddie Blogs, and can’t be moved. That section isn’t viewable to non-members anyway, and I felt it was important that non-members also had some information available to them. You can still view our other thread here…… http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=50573.0.

 

So it’s really good that those who are just looking for information, but don’t want to join yet, can now check out what we’re all saying and hopefully either get some good information, or make the decision to become a member of BB so they can join in the conversation or ask questions. I hope our regular posters in the Buddie Blog section will visit here and offer their support and advice to other members who are in need of help.

 

I’ll start the conversation by giving you an update of where I’m at.

 

Things are currently going great. I’m sleeping really well every night (touch wood) and I’m hardly even thinking about my taper. Next weekend I should be at 0.7mg. It’s hard to believe that about 18 months ago I was at my wits end, contemplating how I could continue living my life when I had no idea what my problem was or how I would ever get off valium. It was about that time that my father passed away, at the age of 88. Before he died he knew how sick I was, and about 2 months after he died, suddenly Benzo Buddies popped up on my google search, and I haven’t look back. Thanks Dad for pointing me in the right direction.

 

It hasn’t always been easy, and at times it’s been downright frustrating and difficult, but I could never have gotten where I am now without the help of Benzo Buddies, and Fliprain in particular, who was so patient in teaching me how to do a daily taper. Taking her inspiration and help, I’ve tried to “pay it forward” by putting together an example of how do a valium liquid taper, which I’ve posted in the link in my signature below.

 

I’m really taking this final leg of my taper very seriously. I’m done with experimenting and making silly mistakes, and now it’s time for me to just knuckle down and commit to being patient, not taking any silly risks and just getting it done.

 

I’m not putting any timetable on when I’ll be finished. I may do the slow fade-out/flumes inhaling that Bart has done. Then again, if things continue as they are at the moment, I might just step off with my last cut. Who knows? My 55th birthday will be in June next year, so my one wish is that I will be totally benzo free for my birthday.

 

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Hi Diaz-Pam

Thanks for starting this new thread. I really got a lot from BB when I was new to this benzo business. Currently, I'm around  the end of my taper and enjoy paying it forward as well. Not thinking much about your taper is a great sign. I started my original taper from 2-4mg of Ativan per day, then crossed over to Valium a la Ashton. I tapered really fast at first, going from a max of 4mg Ativan per day down to .7mg per day in around 1 month. My taper  ended 22 months later with Valium  going slower and slower,  but basically I felt pretty well most of the time after slowing down.

Bart

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I also use Diaz-Pam's liquid micro-tapering method. It is easy and functional and I'm thankful I don't have to titrate - I just merely buy the liquid valium and draw up the 1ml/1mg per day. This is one plus for valium tapering: the variety of forms and dosages it comes in. The other plus is its long half life though you'll see I still dose 3 times daily but it isn't necessary to do so for most people.

I'll post the numbers I generated on excel for cutting at different mls/mgs using DP's 1:100ml method. I have them printed out and cross them off nightly which means I can avoid maths as well as keeping track of where I'm up to. They aren't in their proper format but it shouldn't be overly difficult for anyone to place them in boxes/table format if you wish to.

 

How goes my taper: well I'm usually fine and functional provided I don't get impatient and I take it slow. I had one very big bump in the road when I got concussed but other then that I'm living my life. At a high-ish dose (7.5 mgs as I write this) it does continue to impact on my life. I feel valium throughout the day but at least withdrawal symptoms are not overly difficult at this stage - again provided I take it slow.

 

Hopefully the lower doses don't mean too much difficulty. We shall see.

 

I do believe though that people can in general keep their healing rate at roughly their cut rate so that the impact of the withdrawal is less noticeable. This takes patience and it takes time. It takes knowing when you need to hold, slow down or even up-dose. Once you are in withdrawal and you continue to cut you will stay in withdrawal. With patience and vigilance you can once stable stay moderately stable. Unfortunately even this isn't possible for many people. And of course there are always surprises. Hubris with benzos is pretty quickly swatted down. I have no doubt I will have difficult points ahead but through the example of others before me I have an approach that has thus far stabilised me and allow me to continue a taper albeit a slow one. The approach is sometimes referred to as a 'symptoms based taper'. One of the buddies who most successfully utilised this approach thus far is Bart. Diaz-Pam is also proving a good example of how you can withdraw without suffering. This approach basically calls for you to heal with your cut rate by trying to stay virtually non-symptomatic and if/when symptoms appear utilising a slow down, a hold, or an up-dose.

 

I dose 3 times daily though I functioned fine initially on one dose per day. After my concussion however I got headaches in-between doses. It is a very even way of doing it if you can stand it. I use a combination of tablets and liquid. Having liquid valium does obviously make the spreading over 3 doses easier. Even as I get to very low doses I can just drink the liquid dose throughout the day.

 

I'll add a few other thoughts on withdrawing off benzos that I have come to believe at this stage.

I believe wholeheartedly in the benefit of exercise during withdrawal. If I don't keep up regular yoga practice I suffer and it doesn't matter how slow I go.

Some vitamins and supplements can be useful but proceed with caution Reactions do vary amongst people, and from time to time, and for some it is best to stay away. Anything that revs you up or overly affects GABA and glutamate is in my view often a little more trouble then they are worth (I'm mostly thinking here of Valarian and Taurine though many people have found these very useful others, like me, have found them causing their own set of withdrawal problems). For me I stick with things I believe manage cortisol and help brain function, neuro-plasticity and reduction of neuro-toxicity. At this stage that only includes: Vitamin C; Seriphos; Fish oil (with high DHA); Curcumin (taken with small amounts of peperine); Some Creatine as needed. L-Theanine has shown promise though some problems. Gingko Biloba is something I may choose to try in the future.

Hormones matter. Hormones make a big difference to withdrawal. For women their oestrogen levels seem to make the biggest difference. Low points in oestrogen are pre-menstruation, menstruation, pre-menopausal, menopausal and post-menopausal. HRT and even the combination pill have helped many people.

Seek help & know much. If in benzo withdrawal you might be the only one you know who is going through this. You might know a hell of a lot more about it then 90% of Drs. Both of these things are ok. They can even be helpful. Why? Well you find new avenues of support - like BB. And you learn a lot about your condition and the brain in general. For some people having too much information leads to a feeling that their withdrawal is taking over their lives. For me it has been an essential part of owning my withdrawal and coming to terms with it. And, perhaps more importantly, it has led to find ways through it as painlessly as possible.

 

(sorry about the essay!)

Good luck & Peace

Smiff

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So like I said these aren't formatted but the idea of maths really scared me when I first went into this so I'll post them in the hope they may help. Lets face it there is a lot to be scared about when you first find out you are dependent on benzos and just how nasty their withdrawals are.

 

A reduction of 0.07mgs per night (7mls in 1:100 solution)

-7 -14 -21 -28 -35 -42 -49 -56 -63 -70 -77

-84 -91 -98

 

A reduction of 0.06mgs per night (6mls in 1:100 solution)

-6 -12 -18 -24 -30 -36 -42 -48 -54 -60 -66

-72 -78 -84 -90 -96 -102

 

A reduction of 0.05mgs per night (5mls in 1:100 solution)

-5 -10 -15 -20 -25 -30 -35 -40 -45 -50

-55 -60 -65 -70 -75 -80 -85 -90 -95 -100

 

A reduction of 0.04mgs per night (4mls in 1:100 solution)

-4  -8  -12  -16  -20  -24  -28  -32  -36  -40  -44

-48  -52  -56  -60  -64  -68  -72  -76  -80  -84  -88

-92  -96  -100                       

       

A reduction of 0.035mgs per night (3.5mls in 1:100 solution)                     

-3.5  -7  -10.5  -14  -17.5  -21  -24.5  -28  -31.5  -35  -38.5

-42  -45.5  -49  -52.5  -56  -59.5  -63  -66.5  -70  -73.5  -77

-80.5  -84  -87.5  -91  -94.5  -98  -100           

 

A reduction of 0.03mgs per night (3mls in 1:100 solution)

-3  -6  -9  -12  -15  -18  -21  -24  -27  -30  -33

-36  -39  -42  -45  -48  -51  -54  -57  -60  -63  -66

-69  -72  -75  -78  -81  -84  -87  -90  -93  -96  -99

 

A reduction of 0.02mgs per night (2mls in 1:100 solution)

-2  -4  -6  -8  -10  -12  -14  -16  -18  -20  -22

-24  -26  -28  -30  -32  -34  -36  -38  -40  `  -44

-46  -48  -50  -52  -54  -56  -58  -60  -62  -64  -66

-68  -70  -72  -74  -76  -78  -80  -82  -84  -86  -88

-90  -92  -94  -96  -98  -100             

 

A reduction of 0.015mgs per night (1.5mls in 1:100 solution)

-1.5  -3  -4.5  -6  -7.5  -9  -10.5  -12  -13.5  -15  -16.5

-18  -19.5  -21  -22.5  -24  -25.5  -27  -28.5  -30  -31.5  -33

-34.5  -36  -37.5  -39  -40.5  -42  -43.5  -45  -46.5  -48  -49.5

-51  -52.5  -54  -55.5  -57  -58.5  -60  -61.5  -63  -64.5  -66

-67.5  -69  -70.5  -72  -73.5  -75  -76.5  -78  -79.5  -81  -82.5

-84  -85.5  -87  -88.5  -90  -91.5  -93  -94.5  -96  -97.5  -99

 

A reduction of 0.01mgs per night (1mls in 1:100 solution)

-1  -2  -3  -4  -5  -6  -7  -8  -9  -10  -11

-12  -13  -14  -15  -16  -17  -18  -19  -20  -21  -22

-23  -24  -25  -26  -27  -28  -29  -30  -31  -32  -33

-34  -35  -36  -37  -38  -39  -40  -41  -42  -43  -44

-45  -46  -47  -48  -49  -50  -51  -52  -53  -54  -55

-56  -57  -58  -59  -60  -61  -62  -63  -64  -65  -66

-66  -67  -68  -69  -70  -71  -72  -73  -74  -75  -76

-77  -78  -79  -80  -81  -82  -83  -84  -85  -86  -87

-88  -89  -90  -91  -92  -93  -94  -95  -96  -97  -98

-99  -100                         

 

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Hello everyone

 

I started out following the Ashton Manual by switching over from clonazepam to valium although at a more rapid rate than what is shown in the transfer table.

 

I used clonazepam for only 6 weeks and thought that I would be able to transfer and taper faster than what is advised in her manual which does seem to be established for people who have used benzos long term.

 

I was cutting .625mgs every three to four days until I cut from 2.5mg to 1.875mg.  I then got hit for the first time with what is referred to as the valium lag time.  I was cutting so rapidly that it took that long for the cuts to catch up to me.  At that point I had to up-dose from 1.875mg to 2mg and put in a two week hold to stabilize.

 

At this point it was Etown who came to my rescue and very patiently explained the daily cut method using a Gemini Pro Scale (which can be purchased on Amazon).  By cutting the smallest possible amount of .001 grams on the scale daily, I was able to continue cutting but at a much slower rate so that the side effects of cutting were much more manageable. 

 

I continued with this method until I reached .99mg and even that cut rate became too much for me on a daily basis.  I took it upon myself to read through Bart's posts to see if he detailed his reduction method of dissolving tablets into liquid and reducing daily with an oral syringe.  I did find where he described in detail his methodology and with the help of a couple of PMs sent to him, set myself up to begin reducing daily this way.  I began by reducing .01mg daily, and am now as of December 2013 reducing at .009mg daily.  This method is much easier for me using excel tables to help me decide how much valium / suspension liquid (I am using ora-plus/ora-sweet) to end up with the desired taper rate.  I got the link for these tables from Cirerecrem and here it is http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm with these tables you can design your own taper rate around whatever rate you need to reduce.

 

I am very grateful for all the help and support I have received since joining BB.  If you are not yet a member and are reading this, I urge you to join and reach out for help and guidance.  Many of us would have been lost without this site.

 

:smitten:

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I would be remiss If I did not acknowledge the help, support and friendship I have received from Diaz-Pam since I joined BB.  From the beginning of my membership, she has been a solid rock of wisdom and guidance and a valuable source of information on HRT and sleep aids among many other things.

 

Other BB members who I am indebted to for their help or for their support are:

Bart

Etown

OneLove

Cirerecerm

Mrtmeo

 

If you are just coming to this thread you are in the right place!

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I too am tapering valium and although I have been at it for some time, I am still learning.

 

I started out at 15 mg of valium in October of 2012  having done a slow crossover from Ativan. I did an "Ashton" taper and dosed 3 x a day, then 2 x a day, then once a day until I reached 4 mg . . . and then I got into real trouble at 2 mg and realized I had to do something else. That something else has meant that I needed to learn about daily reductions. My thanks for Fliprain and Diaz Pam for explaining that to me.

 

Later on (just recently) I learned that I needed to split my dose and go back to twice daily dosing. My thanks to Diaz Pam, eliz, etown and Bart for helping me with that. They rescued me from a really bad mess.

 

The Diazepam Group is all about helping each other . . . and anyone who is new and asks for advice. There are veterans here and all of us have made mistakes. We learn from each other.

 

I am so grateful for all the help I have received and am ready to help anyone else who needs it.

 

Thanks, DP for starting this group.

 

Okatz

 

 

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Hi Diaz-Pam  :smitten:

 

Nice to start a new thread...

 

I am approaching 2.9 mg V equivalent... super slow but getting there and that is all that matters, right?

 

Bart, again, sorry if I offended you yesterday, it was not intentional, I just want you to do well off this junk... I know a few that said we don't heal until off and trust me, I hate hearing that also but at least you are essentially done with your taper now... hopefully time will take care of the rest.

 

I often feel a bit manic after cutting, for about a week I can be ultra hyper mentally... and I can write a lot about this journey with various thoughts and theories... I am still none the wiser... I only know that I am doing my best to taper off this junk without losing the plot as I get lower... typing is a way of coping and I get way too analytical... and it does not always go down too well... it is merely the result of a speeding brain... it slows down again when I stabilize...

 

Trying to find answers in this is pretty much impossible anyway as we are all so different... some say we heal as we taper, others say the healing does not even start until we are off and I have no idea what to think of withdrawal these days... but I certainly hope this taper is healing as otherwise I am putting a crazy amount of time into this...

 

It is so nice when I am stable and revert to watching movies and enjoying listening to music... and not thinking so much about this like you Diaz-Pam... when we are "in the sweet spot", life sure feels so much better... until then, maybe I should pen a novel or something?  :laugh:

 

Hope everyone is having a good day today.

 

Oscar

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Hi All,

Thank you everyone for all of your support and experience.

 

My mom was in acute withdrawal after stopping lorazepam PRN.

She stopped for a month and her breathing wasn't working and she would de-saturate.

In the hospital, the only thing that brought her oxygen back up, was lorazepam.

However, she couldn't wait the 6 hrs for the next dose and the dr allowed a direct switch to valium.

I tried the Ashton taper from 6mg down to 0 and it just didn't work.

Had to reinstate her at 2.5mg per day.

 

Saw Bart's slow taper and started doing a cut and hold method, until realizing that this doesn't work well.

Finally, I decided to switch my mom to a daily slow tape and this has worked great.

 

Originally, I didn't know how I could cut daily for accuracy using a 1mL syringe, but it's close enuf.

If I had it to again (no never again), I would definitely do the daily micro-taper.

If my mom keeps doing well, she will be off the benzo's by her birthday in Feb.

 

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I may be in some day!! Once my dose gets low enough to cross over, if necessary.

 

I enjoyed following the other thread. And, want to follow this one as well.

 

Denise  :smitten:

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Sorry everyone. I didn't realise the other thread would be locked when this one was created. Apparently Colin did make that comment, but I didn't see it. I thought the old thread could continue. Danni was contacted by admin, as she originally created the old thread, and she was in agreement to the change.

 

I know a lot of people don't like change when they are going through so many other things, but I honestly don't see that this change will make any difference, except for a new address, because it is really just moving the old thread to a new location. Nothing will change because all the same people will be posting, but now those who need help will be able to find this thread more easily. The old one was a bit hard to find for newbies initially unless someone pointed them in the right direction.

 

Sorry if anyone was in the middle of a conversation in the old thread, but you can copy over what you were discussing and hopefully the conversation can continue.

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Posting so this thread will be on my "replies list."

 

I keep up with this thread and recommend it to others as I think you folks have a good group going and are giving good advice as well.  Keep up the good work.  :thumbsup:

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I wanted to keep being a part of this thread. Allot of good information and encouragement. I wish all who are new to BBs all the best as you taper. Be patient and accept that this is where you are for now. Try not to fear and you will be free soon.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

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Sorry everyone. I didn't realise the other thread would be locked when this one was created. Apparently Colin did make that comment, but I didn't see it. I thought the old thread could continue. Danni was contacted by admin, as she originally created the old thread, and she was in agreement to the change.

 

I know a lot of people don't like change when they are going through so many other things, but I honestly don't see that this change will make any difference, except for a new address, because it is really just moving the old thread to a new location. Nothing will change because all the same people will be posting, but now those who need help will be able to find this thread more easily. The old one was a bit hard to find for newbies initially unless someone pointed them in the right direction.

 

Sorry if anyone was in the middle of a conversation in the old thread, but you can copy over what you were discussing and hopefully the conversation can continue.

 

Diaz, change is good... we ALL want change... that's why we are all trying to get free right?

 

Embrace change people... it keeps things fresh, Lord knows tapering can be like groundhog day as it is... change is good.  :thumbsup:

 

Oscar

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I can get a little stressed and over analytical when I am feeling a cut and I can also be terribly negative... and I should not be as these are transient feelings... I should refrain from posting my dark thoughts as it is not fair... although sometimes I am just desperate for some answers but of course there are none... other than to keep plugging away...

 

I think what happens is that I come to this site after some time away and I read so much negative stuff it immediately sets me off and I wind up not only feeling anxiety from a reduction but reading here in this site can really amp up my fears also... I then I end up posting negative stuff and it's not intended to discourage... it's just where I am at for a awhile and I guess many of us vent here in the times of struggle...

 

It's all a hot mess sometimes... a bit like me... but without the hot.  :crazy:

 

There was a time I never thought I would reach 3 mgs V equiv... eventually I got there... (Lordy that took me like yonks) but the main thing is... it happened... now I gotta focus on reaching 2.9 mg... almost made it by the end of the year but not quite... oh well, this tortoise is tired these days... and I want to feel semi decent for the holidays... Lord knows I deserve that much, this will be my third Christmas tapering... and still Santa won't make an appearance.

 

 

Oscar

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I am grateful for the information and support I received on the previous thread. Two months after completing a slow Xanax taper I started on Valium reduction. I was in deep trouble and I needed help...I found it here. I will be reading and asking as I slowly move toward benzo freedom. I am glad to be here.

Warmly,

Carita

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Hi everyone. DP its alllll good. I guess we are giving quick overviews of the before and present. My sig pretty much says it all. When all was said and done I was on 27.5mg of Valium after over 20 years of clonazepam .5mg 2x daily and 15mg of Serax (Oxazepam to sleep).

I joined BB in the fall of 2011 so I have been around for 2 years now. I spent the first year tapering by the dry cut method 1mg every 4-6 weeks and like so many others got slammed eventually and had to slow down. I am presently at 9.7mg and tapering daily using a Jewelers scale and nail file and a rate of .013mg/day. This is 2 months to lose 1mg. I am using the "taper by symptom" method made famous for me by Bart. I have the theory part down to a science but the hands on is a work in progress. I know what to do hands down and can tell anyone else but resist my own advise. I have a full time job and run a business on the side so I'm really too busy to taper. Unfortunately the taper is my boss most days! I started a thread for taperers who are also workers, wanna be workers, former workers and anyone else who wants to chime in and it is here  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66302.msg1208917#msg1208917

I am here to help if you need me. I love this group and hope that we can share our collective knowledge with anyone interested. I would only ask, maybe beg anyone reading this post to please post and let us know how you feel. I did not thinking I knew it all and it turned out to be too late on too many occasions and the too fast taper bug bit me in the butt. Please jump in and save yourself the aggravation of this mistake. Believe me most people who look at this thread are having symptoms or maybe in tolerance. This tapering game is no joke and as a great bud of mine (WWWI) always said is not for the faint of heart. If you are like I was and think it won't happen to you we will welcome you with open arms when it does. The ultimate goal is to keep your healing speed as close to your tapering speed as possible. When the two are far apart that's when you get into trouble and many people do not know how to fix this right off the hop and unfortunately stay in this zone for their whole taper. ASK QUESTIONS!

Nice to be over here

etown

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Hi everyone,

 

I will come on board also. After 22 years of klonopin use I tapered over a 7 month period. It was a nasty battle. I was put on Valium the day I jumped to help make the w/d more manageable. I had a lot to learn. The biggest thing I learned was to slow it down. With the help of the many supportive people at BB I am finally at a place where I am not sick. My overly long wait for my scale seems to be drawing to an end as it has been shipped. I will start Bart's taper when I get it and am hoping for a more peaceful time. We will see. The one thing that I understand is that much of what happens to us through all of this depends on attitude. This is not easy and I would not want to repeat it again. I was very bitter when I realized how backed up to the wall I was when I first was in w/d. I have become a patient person. I was very angry also. That was harder for me to temper. At the one year mark I took a huge breathe in and exhaled. I can do this. I will get to the finish line. I look forward to better days and happy endings.

 

Feeling ok in Colorado :thumbsup:

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So just a little logistics question:

Drawing up 99mls using a syringe is irritating me.

I can buy a science grade (albeit school level) glass 100ml measuring cylinder for $5.45.

Is the accuracy with a measuring cylinder really going to be that far off a syringe?

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Hi Smiff,

I fear it may be trial and error.

 

In my case, I bought a 10ml oral syringe and a 100ml graduated cylinder.  I measured out 100ml with the syringe into the cylinder and the water level ended up quite a bit above the 100ml mark. 

 

I could have bought another cylinder and another looking for one that measured exactly what the 10ml syringe was measuring but I decided not to.  I work with a lot of lab equipment (10% milk bottles, different sized beakers, cylinders etc.) in my job because of the testing we do on the product we make here at the factory where I work and in my experience, no two measure exactly the same.  It is just the nature of the way they are made and marked.

 

Because of this, I decided to stick with just measuring out my suspension mix and my dose with the syringe.  Whether or not the cylinder or the syringe was measuring the most accurately becomes immaterial because I am measuring with the same instrument each and every time mixing my suspension and taking my dose. 

 

You could get lucky and find one that measures the same, just check it first to be sure.

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