Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[ki...]]

I am terribly sorry to hear of how difficult and painful it must have been, to try and raise your children during this and also be separated from them. I myself never had children and fortunately have a supportive spouse, but even caring for our cat right now feels like a daunting task. I get confused and actually scared of him, even though he's just an innocent cat. I am scared of everything right now: My own face in the mirror, my own hands, the tea kettle, any sudden movements, any sounds.

 

I will strongly consider your idea to do a slow crossover. I thank you for your honesty about "waffling." This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done: Coming off psych meds. I have already put my body/brain through a lot over the past 14 or so months, coming off antidepressants and gabapentin. I found myself "stuck" on K during the end of my antidepressant taper; the lower on the ADs I went, the more my anxiety spiked, so I used my 1mg PRN dose a few times per week until a doctor switched me to .5mg daily. That was 3 months ago. Going back to 1mg is no longer an option though; it's as if my brain has seen enough of K. Some advice from others that I've gotten is to not try any crossovers right now, as my brain has seen enough change; I can also see the relevance of that point-of-view.

 

I will probably keep checking in here rather frequently, as decisions have to be made and I want to avoid a serious crisis.

 

What AD did you taper off of? I think holding off on tapering down from the benzo right now is probably a wise decision. You are still recovering from the AD taper and with the current world events, I’m sure that doesn’t make things any easier.

[[de...]]

I tapered (over about 10 months) off of nortriptyline 75 mg. and Trintellix 10 mg. The Trintellix was almost forced and was stopped in only 2 months' time (Aug.-Oct. 2019), due to insurance changes and inability to pay. It's a $400 medication.

 

I don't think immediate tapering is a good idea either, but maybe a crossover/hold is viable. I've lately moved into very bizarre symptoms that are probably somewhat residual from my other tapers but are much exacerbated by the Klonopin. My brain is kicking me into deep withdrawals on it, scary ones that I haven't yet experienced from any other kind of medication. Thank you for weighing in on this.

[[ki...]]

I tapered (over about 10 months) off of nortriptyline 75 mg. and Trintellix 10 mg. The Trintellix was almost forced and was stopped in only 2 months' time (Aug.-Oct. 2019), due to insurance changes and inability to pay. It's a $400 medication.

 

I don't think immediate tapering is a good idea either, but maybe a crossover/hold is viable. I've lately moved into very bizarre symptoms that are probably somewhat residual from my other tapers but are much exacerbated by the Klonopin. My brain is kicking me into deep withdrawals on it, scary ones that I haven't yet experienced from any other kind of medication. Thank you for weighing in on this.

 

My doctor wanted to switch me to Trintellix, but my insurance wouldn’t cover it. I will say that crossing over from K to V was trading one set of symptoms for another. The symptoms I’ve had on V have been more manageable and the longer half-life and sedating effects have made it easier for me to taper. I had a really hard time making cuts from K and ended going back to my original dose every time I tried to taper.

[[de...]]

My doctor wanted to switch me to Trintellix, but my insurance wouldn’t cover it. I will say that crossing over from K to V was trading one set of symptoms for another. The symptoms I’ve had on V have been more manageable and the longer half-life and sedating effects have made it easier for me to taper. I had a really hard time making cuts from K and ended going back to my original dose every time I tried to taper.

 

I see in your signature that you had some difficulty with the crossover from K to V. Did you do an immediate taper with the crossover, or did you hold for a while? I am grateful to see I am not the only one who just can't seem to find any peace with K.

 

I think the K is causing some hallucinations at this point, not just from the withdrawal but now whenever I take it, it seems to make everything feel skewed.

[[ki...]]

My doctor wanted to switch me to Trintellix, but my insurance wouldn’t cover it. I will say that crossing over from K to V was trading one set of symptoms for another. The symptoms I’ve had on V have been more manageable and the longer half-life and sedating effects have made it easier for me to taper. I had a really hard time making cuts from K and ended going back to my original dose every time I tried to taper.

 

I see in your signature that you had some difficulty with the crossover from K to V. Did you do an immediate taper with the crossover, or did you hold for a while? I am grateful to see I am not the only one who just can't seem to find any peace with K.

 

I think the K is causing some hallucinations at this point, not just from the withdrawal but now whenever I take it, it seems to make everything feel skewed.

 

No, I didn’t have much problems with my cross over. I had trouble tapering directly off of K. The cross over from K to V was relatively easy. I had some withdrawals from K, but it was pretty bearable. I started tapering immediately once I was only on V.

[[Ma...]]

One year ago, after a symptomless taper for 2 years, I posted on bb “would it be possible to quicken my taper if im not having problems?So at 2.5 mg last summer, I went too fast and crashed . There were other mistakes I made contributing to this crash. I have closed my business and have not been functional.  I updosed for 2nd time 2 months ago, and have felt sicker, with more severe symptoms. I have never stabilized. I do have random windows. It’s been 7 months since I tapered. I always used a home brew. But it looks like buddies have more success with Rx liquid. I know nothing about dilutions with this. I want to only taper about 5% per month. Or 1 mg in 150 days. How is this calculated with rx liquid and is there a spreadsheet for this. I used the benzo. Org spreadsheet before. A 1 to 1 (1mg in 100 days) is too fast for me.  Thanks for any input.

[[Mo...]]

Magnolis,

I dilute mine as a 1mg/100ml solution.  So I use 99 ML distilled water with 1 ml (1 mg) of the RX liquid.  It's easier on my brain to do it this way so I can change my rate easily, etc.  I like to make mine fresh every day.  I hold two of my doses and taper one dose at a time, for about .20 mg or 20 ml and then switch to another.  If you wanted to taper .0005mg a day using this ratio, you absolutely could easily as it would by 1/2 ML changes - it depends on if you want to use the "draw up" method or the "discard" method as to how you wanted to do it. 

 

I'm again so sorry for your suffering.  Hang in there - healing can and will happen eventually.

[[Ma...]]

I’ve always used the discard method. Is there a tutorial somewhere? Is there a spreadsheet? I wouldn’t think the pharmacist would know.

[[Ma...]]

I think It’s starting to get a little clearer. Couldn’t you also put the 1mg liquid rx in 149 ml of water and discard 1 ml per day?

[[ki...]]

I’ve always used the discard method. Is there a tutorial somewhere? Is there a spreadsheet? I wouldn’t think the pharmacist would know.

 

The method I use I end up using most of my liquid. I do 1:10 ratio (1 ml Rx Valium + 9 ml distilled water—the Rx solution is 1 mg per ml). Using a nice number like 10 or 100 makes the math easier. I make up a solution that contains 20 mg Valium total so that’s 20 ml of my Rx liquid and 180 ml distilled water). So for instance my dose is 2.328mg today and I dose twice a day so 1.164 mg AM and PM. All I have to do is multiply that number by 10 to get the number of milliliters I need to take of my solution. So I draw 11.64 ml using a 10 ml syringe and a 1 ml syringe (both purchased on Amazon) for each dose. You use the 1 ml syringe to draw the amount after the decimal (.64 ml) and the 10 ml syringe for the 11 ml. In your case, your dose would be 37.5 ml using my method.

[[ki...]]

Magnolis, if you wanted to reduce by 5% every 30 days you would multiply your dose by .9983 then multiply by 10 to get the value in milliliters.

 

So 3.75 x .9983 = 3.7436 mg

To get milliliters:

3.7436 x 10 = 37.44 ml (rounded up because of the 6 at the end)

 

I use google sheets to calculate my values.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you

[[Ma...]]

I’m sorry but I didn’t explain that I taper only 1 mg and take the rest in pill form.

[[ki...]]

I’m sorry but I didn’t explain that I taper only 1 mg and take the rest in pill form.

 

Not a problem. My method can be modified for that. You’d just take 10 ml of your solution to equal 1 mg, then when reducing you’d do 1 x .9983 = .9983 x 10 = 9.98 ml, continuing the same process until that 1 mg is gone, then add another 1 mg liquid and repeat.

[[Ma...]]

What is the name of the google sheets you were referring to?

[[ki...]]

What is the name of the google sheets you were referring to?

 

It’s a Google product called “Google Sheets”. It’s like Microsoft Excel, but free with a google account. You can download the app to a phone or tablet.

[[Ma...]]

http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm

 

Can I use this spreadsheet? It’s the only one I’m familiar with.  My brain is not working!

[[ki...]]

http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm

 

Can I use this spreadsheet? It’s the only one I’m familiar with.  My brain is not working!

 

I’m not super familiar with that spreadsheet. It uses the pull and discard method which isn’t the method I use.

[[Wo...]]

Hey lovelies.

 

I hope I've come to the right place. I've been on lorazepam 1mg 3 times a day for coming up to 2 months. Having done my research and reading a lot on line I decided to cross over to valium (although I've had many people say I could have done it just as easily on lorazepam). Anywho, I have printed off the Ashton manual taper schedule for 3mg lorazepam but I'm conscious that I've only been on lorazepam for under 2 months and I don't want to drag the taper out too long, similarly I don't want to rush it. Please can you advise the best course of action.

 

My daily schedule for the past 3 days has been this :

 

9am 1mg lorazepam

2pm 1mg lorazepam

7pm 0.5mg lorazepam plus 5mg valium

 

Where do I go from here? How soon should I introduce another 5mg valium in place of 0.5 lorazepam. And then once I'm fully on the valium how often and how much should I reduce.

 

Sorry if this has all been asked before. Feeling v overwhelmed and unsure. Also scared the valium isn't going to be as successful as staving off my anxiety as the lorazepam.

 

Thanks in advance if you got as far as reading this 😊

[[ki...]]

Hey lovelies.

 

I hope I've come to the right place. I've been on lorazepam 1mg 3 times a day for coming up to 2 months. Having done my research and reading a lot on line I decided to cross over to valium (although I've had many people say I could have done it just as easily on lorazepam). Anywho, I have printed off the Ashton manual taper schedule for 3mg lorazepam but I'm conscious that I've only been on lorazepam for under 2 months and I don't want to drag the taper out too long, similarly I don't want to rush it. Please can you advise the best course of action.

 

My daily schedule for the past 3 days has been this :

 

9am 1mg lorazepam

2pm 1mg lorazepam

7pm 0.5mg lorazepam plus 5mg valium

 

Where do I go from here? How soon should I introduce another 5mg valium in place of 0.5 lorazepam. And then once I'm fully on the valium how often and how much should I reduce.

 

Sorry if this has all been asked before. Feeling v overwhelmed and unsure. Also scared the valium isn't going to be as successful as staving off my anxiety as the lorazepam.

 

Thanks in advance if you got as far as reading this 😊

 

For what it's worth, lorazepam did almost nothing for my anxiety, but I was only on 1 mg for a very short time. I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as it not covering your anxiety. As long as you cross over gradually and to the equivalent dose of Valium you should be OK. Many find that the Ashton manual equivalency doses are on the high side, which I think Ashton did that to help ease possible withdrawal symptoms from the original benzo (also there's no consensus among the medical community on what the equivalent dose actually is). Many find that Ashton's recommendations are too much and can actually reduce some. I have two friends who crossed over from Klonopin and Xanax and both were able to cross over to a lower equivalent dose than what Ashton recommends. You will know if the dose of Valium is too high if it makes you feel overly sedated.

 

When I crossed over I followed the Ashton manual precisely, reducing my dose of Klonopin (1 mg) by a quarter every two weeks and adding in 5 mg Valium to replace it.

 

My schedule looked like this:

.5 mg K AM/.25 K & 5 mg V PM (2 weeks)

.5 mg K AM/ 10 mg V PM (2 weeks)

.25 mg K & 5 mg V AM/10 mg V PM (2 weeks)

10 mg V AM & PM

 

It took me 6 weeks to completely cross over. I had some minor withdrawal symptoms from the Klonopin, some increased anxiety and weird head pressure, but they both subsided within a month and they were tolerable.

 

Ashton recommends you start reducing your dose while still crossing over from 3 mg lorazepam to Valium, I would recommend following that schedule and pay attention to your symptoms. As long as you feel ok, you can proceed. The name of the game really is to pay attention to your body, if you don't feel well, hold at that step.

 

I hope that assuages your fears some. Listen to your body and you will do well in your taper.

[[Ni...]]

Is it better to spread out your Valium dosages the day?

 

I'm on 10 mg with 5 mg as needed. I feel like taking the 5 mg as well. I came from 3 Ativan of 1 mg but my doctor won't give 10mg of valium per 1 mg Ativan only 5.

 

Should I take 5,5,5 per day or just 5,5?

[[Mo...]]

Hi Nikitis.  Sorry you are having trouble.  It seems to be different for each individual.....I spread mine in 3 doses a day but know many others are on 2 and some on 1.  I know others that spread their doses into 4. 

[[Ma...]]

It all really comes down to how you are feeling.  It sounds like the Dr has already done a pretty big cut, if I am reading that correctly.  If you are having bad withdrawal, I imo, would definitely take 5, 5 , 5.  Now again, when you decide to dose, depends on how you feel.  If, for instance you need 10 to help you sleep at night, take 2 doses.  5, 10.  Everything depends on how you feel.  If 5,5,5 makes you feel better, that's the way to go.  Tapering should always be based on how you feel.  Good luck 

Mary 🍀

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[bl...]]

Hi group

 

Just checking in to update reading comments. Appears everyone is moving forward. Nothing much to chat about, beyond noting have gone down to 4 mg after a pause.

 

Stay well.

 

Cheers

 

Blue001

 

PS--Welcome and hi to --- WorkingdortheFuture!

[[Ma...]]

Today is day 7 of a crossover of mylan to teva diazapam. I started with 1/4 total dose teva.  Rest mylan. I’m having extreme nausea. Is this normal? Should I just switch over completely. Are the 2 manufacturers ca using the nausea. It’s not the typical wd nausea. It’s severe.