Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Ma...]]

I can get through just about anything, as long as I hear from the group that these are symptoms you have survived, or are in process of surviving. It's just if I know I am not alone, on top of this horrific pandemic, that will get me through. Do you have/had:

Rolling, cyclic panic attacks

Hair loss that erodes your self esteem

Trembling from deep in your core

Feeling out of your own self

Heart skips and blips for hours

Nighttime dread, fear of the night

Dizziness and unsteadiness

Feeling tight in the neck and shoulders

Feeling light headed

Feeling you are dying

Tearful

It seems like a lot, but these come and go.  Daily. After all these months it gets exhausting. Beats you down. For the last 2 weeks, it's been a lot of shaking and feeling dizzy (not vertigo). Anyone? I can hang in there, if there is hope.... 

 

There is definitely hope Joy, everyone of those are Withdrawal symptoms.  Ashton has a page in her manual that has a list, I believe of 150 symptoms. And there are actually others.  I know it's hard to believe a med can cause so many , but unfortunately it's true.  One way you can tell , is they are cycling in and out.  I hope they start resolving soon.  Mary 💜

[[Jo...]]

I can get through just about anything, as long as I hear from the group that these are symptoms you have survived, or are in process of surviving. It's just if I know I am not alone, on top of this horrific pandemic, that will get me through. Do you have/had:

Rolling, cyclic panic attacks

Hair loss that erodes your self esteem

Trembling from deep in your core

Feeling out of your own self

Heart skips and blips for hours

Nighttime dread, fear of the night

Dizziness and unsteadiness

Feeling tight in the neck and shoulders

Feeling light headed

Feeling you are dying

Tearful

It seems like a lot, but these come and go.  Daily. After all these months it gets exhausting. Beats you down. For the last 2 weeks, it's been a lot of shaking and feeling dizzy (not vertigo). Anyone? I can hang in there, if there is hope.... 

 

There is definitely hope Joy, everyone of those are Withdrawal symptoms.  Ashton has a page in her manual that has a list, I believe of 150 symptoms. And there are actually others.  I know it's hard to believe a med can cause so many , but unfortunately it's true.  One way you can tell , is they are cycling in and out.  I hope they start resolving soon.  Mary 💜

 

Mary, thank you.  Just a heartfelt, grateful thank you. Sometimes you feel like you are hanging on a cliff, and losing your grip. A kind word gives me the strength to hang on, and keep climbing. I hope you are doing well, you have a kind heart, Mary. ❤😇

[[Ma...]]

I can get through just about anything, as long as I hear from the group that these are symptoms you have survived, or are in process of surviving. It's just if I know I am not alone, on top of this horrific pandemic, that will get me through. Do you have/had:

Rolling, cyclic panic attacks

Hair loss that erodes your self esteem

Trembling from deep in your core

Feeling out of your own self

Heart skips and blips for hours

Nighttime dread, fear of the night

Dizziness and unsteadiness

Feeling tight in the neck and shoulders

Feeling light headed

Feeling you are dying

Tearful

It seems like a lot, but these come and go.  Daily. After all these months it gets exhausting. Beats you down. For the last 2 weeks, it's been a lot of shaking and feeling dizzy (not vertigo). Anyone? I can hang in there, if there is hope.... 

 

There is definitely hope Joy, everyone of those are Withdrawal symptoms.  Ashton has a page in her manual that has a list, I believe of 150 symptoms. And there are actually others.  I know it's hard to believe a med can cause so many , but unfortunately it's true.  One way you can tell , is they are cycling in and out.  I hope they start resolving soon.  Mary 💜

 

Mary, thank you.  Just a heartfelt, grateful thank you. Sometimes you feel like you are hanging on a cliff, and losing your grip. A kind word gives me the strength to hang on, and keep climbing. I hope you are doing well, you have a kind heart, Mary. ❤😇

 

:mybuddy:

[[bl...]]

Blue,

Can you share what books helped you withe looping thoughts and ruminations?

 

Hi Magnolis

 

I highly recommend the two books below.

 

The books are based on cognitive based mindfulness. Authors-Mark Williams, John Teasdale, Zindel Segal and Jon Kabat-Zinn. The books are really an exploration of how our thinking process is so misunderstood. I re-read sections everyday. Slowly--gaining a better understanding.

 

"The Mindful Way Workbook" based on their first book "The Mindful Way through Depression." I bought both of them. Amazon has both and other outlets. Very readable and well organized so as not to overwhelm the reader. Plus CD and/or link to mindfulness guide practices. Here is the link to the workbook to give you an idea of their approach--https://www.guilford.com/companion-site/The-Mindful-Way-Workbook/9781462508143

 

Very friendly approach--not just depression but applicable to anxiety etc. And very good for those of us tapering to understand just how we get into looping/rumination (they call it aversion).

 

Have others books that have been helpful--The Mindful path to self-compassion by Christopher Germer, Self-compassion by Kristin Neff and Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. Tara Brach has many videos on her Youtube channel. Also, Eckart Tolle has some good lectures on his Youtube channel.

 

Cheers

[[ki...]]

Blue,

Can you share what books helped you withe looping thoughts and ruminations?

 

Hi Magnolis

 

I highly recommend the two books below.

 

The books are based on cognitive based mindfulness. Authors-Mark Williams, John Teasdale, Zindel Segal and Jon Kabat-Zinn. The books are really an exploration of how our thinking process is so misunderstood. I re-read sections everyday. Slowly--gaining a better understanding.

 

"The Mindful Way Workbook" based on their first book "The Mindful Way through Depression." I bought both of them. Amazon has both and other outlets. Very readable and well organized so as not to overwhelm the reader. Plus CD and/or link to mindfulness guide practices. Here is the link to the workbook to give you an idea of their approach--https://www.guilford.com/companion-site/The-Mindful-Way-Workbook/9781462508143

 

Very friendly approach--not just depression but applicable to anxiety etc. And very good for those of us tapering to understand just how we get into looping/rumination (they call it aversion).

 

Have others books that have been helpful--The Mindful path to self-compassion by Christopher Germer, Self-compassion by Kristin Neff and Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. Tara Brach has many videos on her Youtube channel. Also, Eckart Tolle has some good lectures on his Youtube channel.

 

Cheers

 

Jon Kabat-Zinn is the mindfulness guru. I’ve read several of his books, they are excellent. Tara Brach is also great.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you.  I’m going to order them.

[[bl...]]

Blue,

Can you share what books helped you withe looping thoughts and ruminations?

 

Hi Magnolis

 

I highly recommend the two books below.

 

The books are based on cognitive based mindfulness. Authors-Mark Williams, John Teasdale, Zindel Segal and Jon Kabat-Zinn. The books are really an exploration of how our thinking process is so misunderstood. I re-read sections everyday. Slowly--gaining a better understanding.

 

"The Mindful Way Workbook" based on their first book "The Mindful Way through Depression." I bought both of them. Amazon has both and other outlets. Very readable and well organized so as not to overwhelm the reader. Plus CD and/or link to mindfulness guide practices. Here is the link to the workbook to give you an idea of their approach--https://www.guilford.com/companion-site/The-Mindful-Way-Workbook/9781462508143

 

Very friendly approach--not just depression but applicable to anxiety etc. And very good for those of us tapering to understand just how we get into looping/rumination (they call it aversion).

 

Have others books that have been helpful--The Mindful path to self-compassion by Christopher Germer, Self-compassion by Kristin Neff and Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. Tara Brach has many videos on her Youtube channel. Also, Eckart Tolle has some good lectures on his Youtube channel.

 

Cheers

 

Jon Kabat-Zinn is the mindfulness guru. I’ve read several of his books, they are excellent. Tara Brach is also great.

 

Kit

 

You might enjoy the following links. Many like Jon and Tara, as well as several other like minded organizations, have been having either daily or weekly talks and meditation sessions. Both are using Zoom and YouTube for live sessions.

 

Jon - https://www.youtube.com/user/Wisdom2conf/videos

 

Tara - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE3E-d8dUieqIbKYIO5-pFg

 

Have watched several other very good discussions. If want links let me know.

 

Enjoy

 

Blue001

 

 

[[bl...]]

Thank you.  I’m going to order them.

 

Your welcome.

 

And as you read we can chat about the books and topics etc. via PM or on this thread if appropriate.

 

Cheers

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hello,

I will be starting a Valium taper sometime this summer.  Have crossed over from Klonopin to 12.5 Valium and take 2.5 in a.m. 2.5 at 2:00 p.m. and 7.5 at night.  Builder was very kind in advising me that a DLMT is a good way to go.  I had read that if you reduce .01 ml per day in 100 days you will have eliminated 1 mg.  That is a bit slow,I would think.  Does anyone have any input to help me plan better?  Also, those lines on the 1 ml syringe are pretty small.  CAn you dilute and use a larger syringe?  How do you do that?  Thanks for any help.  I would feel less anxious having a plan in place.

Thanks again,

Lookinup

[[Wo...]]

Hi guys

 

Without going into too much detail, I was originally on 1mg lorazepam 3 x per day (3mg total)

 

I've followed the Ashton manual to taper from lorazepam to Diazepam (full cross over to diazepam was only 4 days ago) To say its gone badly is an understatement. With each increase in diazepam things have got worse and since the full crossover I've been suicidal and full of rage. I was hospitalised in Feb for a breakdown that no one could quite understand but the feelings I feel now are exactly the same as they were then and I was on diazepam then. It is so clear now that diazepam effects me really badly and I shouldn't be in it.

 

My question is how quickly can I reinstate the lorazepam?

 

By no means do I want to put anyone off diazepam. Its obviously worked for so many, the proof is in the Ashton manual taper schedule. It just doesn't suit me.

 

Thank you

X

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hi guys

 

Without going into too much detail, I was originally on 1mg lorazepam 3 x per day (3mg total)

 

I've followed the Ashton manual to taper from lorazepam to Diazepam (full cross over to diazepam was only 4 days ago) To say its gone badly is an understatement. With each increase in diazepam things have got worse and since the full crossover I've been suicidal and full of rage. I was hospitalised in Feb for a breakdown that no one could quite understand but the feelings I feel now are exactly the same as they were then and I was on diazepam then. It is so clear now that diazepam effects me really badly and I shouldn't be in it.

 

My question is how quickly can I reinstate the lorazepam?

 

By no means do I want to put anyone off diazepam. Its obviously worked for so many, the proof is in the Ashton manual taper schedule. It just doesn't suit me.

 

Thank you

X

I’m sorry.  I wish I could offer advice, but I am Just getting started on this journey as well and my post is directly above yours.  I have successfully crossed over, but now need assistance with the taper.  How much Valium did you cross to?  I hope someone knowledgeable replies to you soon so you are not so uncomfortable. Best, Lookinup

[[Ma...]]

Hi guys

 

Without going into too much detail, I was originally on 1mg lorazepam 3 x per day (3mg total)

 

I've followed the Ashton manual to taper from lorazepam to Diazepam (full cross over to diazepam was only 4 days ago) To say its gone badly is an understatement. With each increase in diazepam things have got worse and since the full crossover I've been suicidal and full of rage. I was hospitalised in Feb for a breakdown that no one could quite understand but the feelings I feel now are exactly the same as they were then and I was on diazepam then. It is so clear now that diazepam effects me really badly and I shouldn't be in it.

 

My question is how quickly can I reinstate the lorazepam?

 

By no means do I want to put anyone off diazepam. Its obviously worked for so many, the proof is in the Ashton manual taper schedule. It just doesn't suit me.

 

Thank you

X

 

Working, can you go to profile under your avatar and fill out your signature, which is basically your drug history.  That way we can understand more and give you better support.  Mary

[[Wo...]]

Thanks Mary  :smitten:I really appreciate it.

 

Ive completed my history so hopefully theres a clearer picture now.

 

I've reached out a number of times during my cross over from Lorazepam to Diazepam as I've found it so difficult. With every Lorazepam to Diazepam switch the bigger the increase in depression, low moods, suicidal thoughts and Ive barely left my bed. When I left hospital on the 3mg Lorazepam I was fully functioning. House chores, cooking, time with the family - in fact my partner told me I was doing too much and to chill out but I was feeling good.

 

Today, completely Lorazepam free and on 28mg Diazepam, I feel almost exactly as I did before I as admitted into hospital and I do wonder if its the Diazepam that has this effect on me. Hence why I think a straight taper from Lorazepam may be the better option.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated

 

x

[[ki...]]

Thanks Mary  :smitten:I really appreciate it.

 

Ive completed my history so hopefully theres a clearer picture now.

 

I've reached out a number of times during my cross over from Lorazepam to Diazepam as I've found it so difficult. With every Lorazepam to Diazepam switch the bigger the increase in depression, low moods, suicidal thoughts and Ive barely left my bed. When I left hospital on the 3mg Lorazepam I was fully functioning. House chores, cooking, time with the family - in fact my partner told me I was doing too much and to chill out but I was feeling good.

 

Today, completely Lorazepam free and on 28mg Diazepam, I feel almost exactly as I did before I as admitted into hospital and I do wonder if its the Diazepam that has this effect on me. Hence why I think a straight taper from Lorazepam may be the better option.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated

 

x

 

From what I can see in your signature you crossed over from lorazepam fairly quickly. I took the same amount of time to cross over, but I was on a lower dose and a different benzo. That being said, if you are feeling this awful and felt this way before on diazepam, it sounds to me like you are one of the unlucky that don’t tolerate diazepam. I think you’re right that a direct taper from lorazepam will likely be better for you.

[[Ma...]]

Working, thanks for the information.  When I crossed from Xanax to Diazepam, I was so sedated I could hardly hold my head up.  I was at 20 mgs, I couldn't stand it, so I ended up lowering the Valium and adding some Xanax back in.  I held until I was more stable, then tapered the Xanax again.  Left the Valium at lower amount, was still sedated.  I wish I had tapered the Valium and held on to the last of the Xanax, but many people said my body would adapt.  It never really did until I was down to 10 mgs or so.  Valium is not a good drug for me, but I have inched my way down to 8.3 and really don't want to cross again.  A lot of people do adapt .  People on as high as mgs as you, may can taper that first 10 mgs pretty quickly.  And then hold until you feel more stable.  The problem with benzo's is everyone reacts so differently.  So the answer to your question, is nobody can really tell you.  Every time you cross it destabilizes your brain and central nervous system.  You need to decide, it means you will need to hold until stable, and then start very slowly on the lorazepam.  Valium is different than most benzo's.  There are 3 metabolites, 1 for sleep, 1 for anxiety, and 1 for muscles.  They all have different half life's.  So many people do really well, and then there are a lot that don't  .  One of the things I found very disappointing about the Ashton Manual, is that wasn't the impression you were given.  At least if you cross back, it won't have been a long time.  Just be careful, watch your symptoms, and hold .  Your brain and central nervous system will really need an opportunity to stabilize, please give it that before you start tapering again.  Slow and low, let your symptoms be your guide.  Let me know what you decide.  Good luck no matter what you pick.  Mary 💜💜💜

 

It might also be a good idea to put this on Withdrawal Support thread, more people read that thread and maybe you could get some more information  . 

[[Ni...]]

I crossed over from Ativan to Valium, 1 mg of Ativan to 12 mg of valium yet I get restlessness, is it that my body can't tolerate valium??

[[Ma...]]

I crossed over from Ativan to Valium, 1 mg of Ativan to 12 mg of valium yet I get restlessness, is it that my body can't tolerate valium??

 

Hey Nik, I am reading your signature and the last thing you have says 1 mg Ativan and 7 mgs of Valium?  Is that correct, because your question says 12 mgs of Valium, no Ativan, so I am confused.

It does look like , over your tapering period, you have jumped all around in dosage and benzo's.  Have you been holding any time between all these changes?  When you make changes , each time you destabilize your brain and central nervous system.  Can you explain more to me?  All you mention is restlessness, is that the only symptom you are having?  Sorry for all the questions but before I say anything I want to make sure I understand.  Mary 

[[Ni...]]

Hey Mary, yes today I tried 12 mg of valium instead of my 1 mg of Ativan as I was adviced to do 12 mg of valium in the morning and 12 mg of valium in the evening and taper off from that. But I had tremendous restlessness today after I took the 12 mg of valium, and a 1 mg of Ativan pill was able to take the restlessness away. Restlessness was the only symptom I had.

 

I haven't been holding the 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium yet as I did a cold turkey before of 4 days when I reinstated. The drug didn't have the same effect until I took n acetyl cysteine which gave it somewhat its sedating effect back again. 3 days ago before the n acetyl cysteine I took 2 mg of Ativan instead of 1 and did so 4 days ago as well.

 

I want to do valium tapering but I think my body doesn't tolerate the valium for some reason, could this be the case?

[[Ma...]]

I'm not sure I can help.  "I haven't been holding the 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium yet as I did a cold turkey before of 4 days when I reinstated. The drug didn't have the same effect until I took n acetyl cysteine which gave it somewhat its sedating effect back again. 3 days ago before the n acetyl cysteine I took 2 mg of Ativan instead of 1 and did so 4 days ago as well. "

I don't know anything about n acetyl cysteine.  I would suggest you decide what you believe is best and stick with it, all the changes can definitely create a problem.  Good luck 🍀👍

[[Ni...]]

Thank you for the reply Mary, I think I'm gonna hold the 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium and taper off those.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you for the reply Mary, I think I'm gonna hold the 1 mg of Ativan and 7 mg of valium and taper off those.

 

Keep us posted 

[[go...]]

Why does the taper get more difficult at the end?  I'm tapering valium by liquid and am down to .191 mg. today.  I am tapering .5 mg every 17 days now.  I couldn't keep going with 10% every 2 weeks because I'd never reach the end.  Intense physical symptoms.  I had cold turkeyed valium and gabapentin about 3 years ago in 2017, not knowing a taper was needed.  I was probably at about 8 mg a day then.  I started taking it again in 2018, between 8 - 12 mg.  The start of the valium was initially in 2015, so this has been 5 years.  Most of my taper was 10% every 2 weeks, with holds as necessary.  But in the end it seemed it would take forever if I kept to 10% so that's why (for the last 2 mg.) I changed to .5 mg every 17 days.

 

Anyway, I mainly want to know why the withdrawals can be so bad in the end, when I am taking so little valium?

 

I know I'm supposed to create a signature line and I intend to but the best of my intentions have not manifested yet and I am sorry. Thank you.

[[Ma...]]

Why does the taper get more difficult at the end?  I'm tapering valium by liquid and am down to .191 mg. today.  I am tapering .5 mg every 17 days now.  I couldn't keep going with 10% every 2 weeks because I'd never reach the end.  Intense physical symptoms.  I had cold turkeyed valium and gabapentin about 3 years ago in 2017, not knowing a taper was needed.  I was probably at about 8 mg a day then.  I started taking it again in 2018, between 8 - 12 mg.  The start of the valium was initially in 2015, so this has been 5 years.  Most of my taper was 10% every 2 weeks, with holds as necessary.  But in the end it seemed it would take forever if I kept to 10% so that's why (for the last 2 mg.) I changed to .5 mg every 17 days.

 

Anyway, I mainly want to know why the withdrawals can be so bad in the end, when I am taking so little valium?

 

I know I'm supposed to create a signature line and I intend to but the best of my intentions have not manifested yet and I am sorry. Thank you.

 

goforit, it actually sounds like you answered you own question.  Everyone doesn't have a hard time at the end, but if you taper faster than your brain and body keep up, you have wd symptoms.  From reading what you wrote, you decided time was more important than tapering according to symptoms.

Believe me, I have done it too.  Most of us have.  I have a quote that explains it so well, let me find it

 

"It wasnt realy intensity levels that made me slow right down at the last, though there sure were moments, It was my intent to cushion the point where my body was transitioning onto its own chemistry".

[[go...]]

Me again.  Symptoms were tolerable.  Until today. 

 

I understand the concept about tapering slowly enough for the body to acclimate to the tapering.  But I still don't understand why things "tend" to get worse at the end or even after the taper is complete?

 

Also, will the fact that I had previously cold turkeyed make it so I will have a harder time healing?

[[Ma...]]

Me again.  Symptoms were tolerable.  Until today. 

 

I understand the concept about tapering slowly enough for the body to acclimate to the tapering.  But I still don't understand why things "tend" to get worse at the end or even after the taper is complete?

 

Also, will the fact that I had previously cold turkeyed make it so I will have a harder time healing?

 

Everyone is just so different gofiit, it's just not possible to answer that question.  The benzo they were on, how many drugs , amount.  Any other issues that maybe weren't benzo related.  That's why benzo's suck, you really can't know the answer to anything.  I know 3 people just recently walked off at zero, did their taper very slow, and are having a pretty easy time .  Could the cold turkey cause you a problem, it could, but that's not a certainty.  You just need to go as slow as you can and hope for the best.  Nothing is written in stone.  You could hold now, until you feel stable enough to begin slowly again.  Just a suggestion.  Good luck!!🍀