Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Ma...]]

Anyone have any techniques for stopping looping fear based neuro emotions.  I rotate these fears daily.

I guess knowing that this is a withdrawal symptom helps put it in perspective. Any ideas would be helpful. Thank you

[[bl...]]

Hi group

 

Just droped in the say--hi.

 

One heck of a time to pursue vigorous tapering. I had placed a hold on tapering during the thingy we are all dealing with. Though staying home may be a good opportunity for some members. Have basically been a homebody during taper.

 

May do a little cut with the 1 mg been taking near noon.

 

______________________________________________________

 

As a relatively new member often understood the meaning, but did not experiece feeling "stable."

 

For a few weeks have not had the run of the mill sx's. Definitely, a sign of stablizing. Appears that is the approach--step then stablize...

 

In hindsight, my taper down to 5 mg V was fairly rapid with big cuts. From those dastarly X early onset interdose SXs to the transition was definitely not stable. These are powerful drugs.

 

So, slow goes it from here on out.

 

Cheers to all

 

Blue001

[[Ma...]]

Hi group

 

Just droped in the say--hi.

 

One heck of a time to pursue vigorous tapering. I had placed a hold on tapering during the thingy we are all dealing with. Though staying home may be a good opportunity for some members. Have basically been a homebody during taper.

 

May do a little cut with the 1 mg been taking near noon.

 

______________________________________________________

 

As a relatively new member often understood the meaning, but did not experiece feeling "stable."

 

For a few weeks have not had the run of the mill sx's. Definitely, a sign of stablizing. Appears that is the approach--step then stablize...

 

In hindsight, my taper down to 5 mg V was fairly rapid with big cuts. From those dastarly X early onset interdose SXs to the transition was definitely not stable. These are powerful drugs.

 

So, slow goes it from here on out.

 

Cheers to all

 

Blue001

 

Blue!  It's so good to hear from you.  Yes, I had to learn slow the hard way as I think most of us do.

I am glad you found it and now have a way to taper.  You be safe and careful, slow as you go

Mary 

[[bl...]]

Hi group

 

Just droped in the say--hi.

 

One heck of a time to pursue vigorous tapering. I had placed a hold on tapering during the thingy we are all dealing with. Though staying home may be a good opportunity for some members. Have basically been a homebody during taper.

 

May do a little cut with the 1 mg been taking near noon.

 

______________________________________________________

 

As a relatively new member often understood the meaning, but did not experiece feeling "stable."

 

For a few weeks have not had the run of the mill sx's. Definitely, a sign of stablizing. Appears that is the approach--step then stablize...

 

In hindsight, my taper down to 5 mg V was fairly rapid with big cuts. From those dastarly X early onset interdose SXs to the transition was definitely not stable. These are powerful drugs.

 

So, slow goes it from here on out.

 

Cheers to all

 

Blue001

 

Blue!  It's so good to hear from you.  Yes, I had to learn slow the hard way as I think most of us do.

I am glad you found it and now have a way to taper.  You be safe and careful, slow as you go

Mary 

 

Thanks Mary:

 

So, we aim for stabilizing to tolerable level of sx then give it time and proceed step at a time. Not to mislead, still have a minor symptom crop up here and there (today--slow mental process for my spelling is atrocious and seem to be looking up more word spelling than usual  )

 

Admittedly, have avoided reading the heavy science behind the physiological healing processes. From reading comments and bits of info. we are "healing" as we reduce/cut dosage. The healing process begins there and concludes sometime after complete cessation of use.

 

Is that a correct understanding.

 

Wonder if many members are slowing down cuts due to the worldly stresses. Better to slow down than use events outside of our control as a pre-text to updose.

 

Read that alcohol purchases are going thru the roof. And our dozens of cannabis dispensaries are delivering with up to 48 hour delay due to volume. A bit of the ganja is the better route. Oh--its 4:20---got to go-- .

 

Now, at the point, when I look at my nightly 4 mg V--say to myself--do I have to take them! Yes, but maybe a good sign that still motivated to finish this process--slowly. One kinda gets stuck (or apprehensive about cuts) once dose is down in the 5 to 4 mg range! Particularily, when one looks back at the higher dosage before tapering. I am at 1/6 X equivalent from this time last year.

 

Take care all.

 

Cheers,

 

Blue001

 

 

[[Ma...]]

blue, that is basically how we hope it will work  . Keep us informed on how you are.  My guess is if people are having a pretty decent taper, they are continuing through virus, others are probably holding.  I'm sure there is a mixture.  :smitten:

[[bl...]]

blue, that is basically how we hope it will work  . Keep us informed on how you are.  My guess is if people are having a pretty decent taper, they are continuing through virus, others are probably holding.  I'm sure there is a mixture.  :smitten:

 

Will do.

 

Cheers

[[va...]]

Anyone have any techniques for stopping looping fear based neuro emotions.  I rotate these fears daily.

I guess knowing that this is a withdrawal symptom helps put it in perspective. Any ideas would be helpful. Thank you

 

Hi Magnolis.

 

I'm so sorry that your post went unnoticed. I have plenty of looping thoughts and neuro emotions. The only thing that helps me is acceptance and distraction. I tell myself : I am thinking that I will be poor due to this crises (this way you take some distance). I am watching myself thinking that I'll be poor due to this crises (even more distance). This is something Gardener told me once in a post, last summer. I'm so grateful for it. The neuroemotions are very unsettling and there's nothing to do about them so acceptance is key. I tell myself "these symptoms are very disturbing but they won't kill me". I watch YouTube videos most of the time while I'm doing paperwork or chores. My favorite YouTubers are the best distraction. And for those who have faith, this is the time it can help you the most. We'll get through this 😘😘

[[ki...]]

For those on Rx liquid, do you use a syringe adapter to help remove the liquid from the bottle? I don’t want to waste any meds so I’m trying to figure out how to get the liquid out now that it’s below the level that the syringe can reach.

[[Ma...]]

For those on Rx liquid, do you use a syringe adapter to help remove the liquid from the bottle? I don’t want to waste any meds so I’m trying to figure out how to get the liquid out now that it’s below the level that the syringe can reach.

 

I will ask my husband when he gets home 

[[Ma...]]

From Grandma D

 

"

I'm still dealing with the same symptoms that I've had for a while. Have had some waves that were doozies and today I read this from Dr. Leigh - thank you Lord!

 

"What can we do to cope when a wave comes along? First, remind yourself that waves are a normal function of healing from a benzodiazepine. A wave doesn’t mean that you are getting “worse” or that you won’t ever heal. It doesn’t mean that God is punishing you, or that karma is catching up with you. It merely means that your nervous system isn’t yet healed and that healing is still taking place.

 

Next, we can engage in coping mechanisms that we know are effective in benzo withdrawal: distraction, distraction, distraction! Add a measure of acceptance and patience, and we can weather the waves with far less suffering. The best distraction activities are those that take your mind off of your symptoms. Usually, if you use your hands in an activity, your mind will follow. Learning a new skill is an excellent way to engage your mind—watch YouTube videos to learn how to play an instrument, draw, paint, knit, or try a new recipe even. Yoga, stretching, swimming, and gentle walking are also good ways to take your focus off of your symptoms. Word or math puzzles, brainteasers, sewing, knitting, are also good distractions. You may need to try a handful of activities until you find some that engage you enough to be considered a real distraction.

 

Acceptance goes a long way to helping us not worry about being in a wave. When we understand that our symptoms are from a hyper-excited nervous system and that they are not in and of themselves indicative of any dangerous illness, we are more able to relax and allow our nervous system the best chance to heal. Of course, if you are concerned about any symptoms, please seek medical attention. In this time of the pandemic, you may need to connect with a medical professional in a different way than you are used to, so please call ahead and find out their current protocol.

 

Patience is another good coping skill. Yes, benzo withdrawal can feel as if it will go on forever, but it won’t. Even if you are 100% sure that there is no evidence that you are healing, you are indeed healing. Healing takes place so quietly and in such tiny little increments that you often can’t see it until after it has arrived. But it is happening, nevertheless."

[[Mo...]]

Yes, I do use an adapter cap to draw up my liquid RX.  I purchased a whole set of them on Amazon to fit with the syringes that I use.

[[va...]]

Great post Mary. I also do an excel sheet to keep track of all the money I'm losing to this cv hell. It's a great distraction 😭

[[Ma...]]

Great post Mary. I also do an excel sheet to keep track of all the money I'm losing to this cv hell. It's a great distraction 😭

 

Oh Val, I am so sorry.  You are still young, yours will come back, and when it does you will be getting in at the low end, which means it will climb fast and you will get it back, hopefully with more.  I know you are worried, but mine and Tim's came back and with more during the 2008 crash.  It just takes time.  You take care of yourself and your daughter.  Thinking about you, Mary  :smitten:

[[Tr...]]

Hi everyone,

 

Last week I changed my meds: I now take Tranxène. I wanted to get rid of that eternal morning nausea and fatigue. These are both sx which are almost on top of the Diazepam list of side effects. A did the calculations to get to the Diazepam / Tranxène equivalent.  I must say the start has been hopeful: less nausea and less fatigue. The tapering is quite fiddly, Tranxène only being available overhere in capsules with a small amount of powder in it. But I hope to be able to keep this going.

[[de...]]

Please, some good advice:  I'm on .5mg Klonopin and have tried it once a day (leading eventually to significant interdose withdrawals), splitting dose into to  (.25mg and .25mg), and occasionally have tried reinstating old dose, either partly or in full (which was 1mg PRN up through January of 2020).

 

None of the above are working out for me. I have increasing withdrawals on the .5 that are getting to the point of hallucinations (auditory/visual/tactile), severe sensory overwhelm/burning skin, muscle spasms, nausea, etc. I am never going to be able to taper from the K, I don't think. It is starting to give me paradoxical anxiety as well.

 

I need advice on crossing over to valium. By advice, the more technical, the more I can spell it out for my prescriber exactly what I need, the better. I feel so scared and don't even have the language or technical knowledge of what to say. I haven't taken a math class in at least 20 years, so the equivalency thing is confusing to me.

 

Also: Can people weigh in on whether it's safe or wise to even attempt a crossover, with the symptoms I'm having? I know crossovers aren't easy, and there's no easy path, but I also don't see staying on K as being a good long-term option. Other things you should know: I came off 2 antidepressants and gabapentin over an 11-month period last year. Brief reinstatement of gabapentin was unfruitful and made me feel more agitated, so I don't want to go that route again.

 

I posted similar threads under the direct taper and crossover taper headings. I don't know the best place to post, so I'm trying to cover my bases and get the best info possible. Thanks in advance, and I will be by my computer often today.

[[Kg...]]

Delsol:  My advice is  that you should not be tapering or switching over to Valium at this time, given that you tapered and got off multiple medications last year, if it were me I would give my body a very long rest before I tapered off anything else.  If you have to take more K to get stable, so be it. You can taper at a later time. 

 

If you want to go forward know that Valium is not the be all and end all for tapering. Some people do very well on it after they cross over,  for others it does not solve the problem and for some it is actually worse than the original benzo.  Unfortunately how you do is solely dependent on your own body. 

 

My first suggestion is that you get stable prior to any cross over on whatever dose of K that is for you.  If you have to 'go  up' to get off that is okay, since this is all about being able to taper, and live through the side effects of your taper.  After you are stable - I would slowly cross over.  It is easier to do a cross over if you split up your doses.

 

    Here is an easy chart for you to use, just put in the dose of K you want to substitute and it gives you the amount of Valium you need to take.

 

I suggest you start at .125 mg of K to V which essentially allows you to take a  2mg pill of Valium.  Valium comes in 2 mg pills so this makes it easy for you.  Hold for 1 to 2 weeks and then do the next dose.  IMHO the longer you give your body to adjust the better.  .5 mg of K is equal to around 10 mg of Valium so this is your goal for your cross over. You will then end up taking a 5 mg pill of Valium two times a day, if that is what works for you or once a day.

 

I hope this helps.

 

https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

 

[[de...]]

Hi and thank you. I see what you mean about needing stability; my issue is I can't get stable on the Klonopin. Reinstatement of the old dose makes things worse, so I don't think going back up to the old dose to stabilize is an option. I am stuck in very deep withdrawals. Probably some of it is due to the other drugs I've tapered from over the past 14-15 months.

 

Maybe I should ask the question then: Is a straight-up crossover and hold on Valium something people do? Maybe indeed taper is not the right lingo. Eventually that is what I want, but maybe I just need to change to a different benzo for now... Does anyone have experience with this? Like does anyone cross over to valium with the intention of eventual taper but knowing they must hold for a while?

 

I'm just trying to understand the terrain and gather all the right information but see your point about trying to taper.

[[Mo...]]

Hi Delsol,

I'm so sorry for your suffering and I can only empathize.  You sound very much like where I was at, trying to taper Klonopin - similar symptoms and I had many more - extreme hyperacusis, severe akathisia, bad tremors, myoclonic jerks, utter torture.  I crossed over to Valium last October over a 5 1/2 week period - moving from .360mg of Klonopin to 6.5 mg of Valium.  I was already on the .125mg Klonopin wafers so for me, it was not too difficult.  First, I did the afternoon dose - .1 mg of Klonopin for 2 mg of Valium.  I got instant relief from many of my symptoms.  But unfortunately, I gained severe muscle burning which had me questioning my decision.  I then got severe head pressure (from Klonopin withdrawals) and it was so painful - I wanted to turn back.  Thankfully, I had a good buddy on here who had been through the same thing and assured me it would get better - she was an angel.  I also had a new doctor who said no, we are gonna see this through and take it very slow.  So then I did half of every other dose after (cutting the .125 mg wafers in half), in a similar fashion as Ashton shows in her manual - holding each switch for several days until things let up.  Both the severe muscle burning and bad head pressure went away for me in time - I believe the muscle burning to have been an initial side effect from the Valium and the head pressure a definite w/d symptom from the Klonopin. 

 

I am now at 5 mg of Valium, broken into 3 doses a day.  3 mg of pill (Teva brand), and 2 mg of pharmacy 1mg/1ml liquid so I can microtaper.  I taper at a rate of .01mg per day so it takes me 100 days to reduce 1 mg.

 

Only time is going to tell if this was right for me but at this point, I'm so glad I did it and stuck with it, even though I wanted to give up.  I wish you all the best.

[[de...]]

Thanks for this perspective, Momof7. Oh the math!  How did you figure that part out? Did someone help you? My benzo brain is having a hard time knowing even how to talk about equivalencies. Also, how did you "educate" your prescriber, or did that person already have experience with Ashton?

 

I am sorry you have had to suffer so much with Kpin, but I guess I'm relieved to know others have had similar symptoms on it. Right now the hyperacusis is starting to become a thing, and the hyper-"everything," especially tactile issues. The hallucinatory stuff is the most frightening thing I've ever experienced.

[[Ma...]]

Delsol, can you go to google and print the Ashton Manual.  It has an equivalency chart in it, and also the words you will need to talk to your Dr.  I would actually print 2 copies.  And yes, hold once you have done your crossover.  Explanations will all be in the Manual and you can study it, highlight on it etc;  You can always come back here and ask more questions.  Good luck, Mary 🍀🍀

You do need to be prepared for how different the benzo's are.  K is very strong, V is sedating, they are nothing alike.  That's why you need to do your crossover slowly.  So your brain and central nervous system have an opportunity to adapt.  The Dr usually really appreciates a copy of the manual. 

 

[[Mo...]]

Delsol,

I printed out the Ashton Manual and some other stuff.  I also took the below, which helped to convince her.  I also printed out some information about microtapering from varying sources, some that were from here.  Once I got crossed over, I had a spreadsheet I took to tell her how I wanted to microtaper.  It shows the dosages, etc.  I am fortunate, I guess, to be an accountant so am very familiar with spreadsheets, though my brain too was not/is not functioning at full capacity.  Someone gave me their template, I took it and modified it.  Every time I meet with my doctor, I give it to her - it shows her exactly what I am doing, though I think it's confusing to her.  This also tells me exactly what I am doing and how much to reduce every day.

 

Once I was crossed over, I held very briefly, once the worst of the head symptoms subsided - not long.  And I go VERY, VERY slow. 

 

https://benzo.org.uk/ashvtaper.htm?fbclid=IwAR09lJntcQFPZ_aCjfpIouoC_gHTbhVWeNhgv1lj3UuP1iQMDk01Ym_o-MY

[[de...]]

Delsol, can you go to google and print the Ashton Manual.  It has an equivalency chart in it,

 

Mary: I see a generalized equivalency chart on Google; what I don't see is how to cross gradually from K to V -- is there a specific equivalency chart in that regard? What I mean is: Starting at .5mg K, is there a chart for slowly incorporating more V while reducing the K? I only see a generalized table. Since I'm not quitting the K but have to gradually cross over, is there a table for how that is incrementally done? Maybe I'm not looking at the right links.

 

Momof7babes: Thank you for the advice and the link. Regarding the spreadsheet: How did you find that or come up with it? I'm sure your accounting skills helped; me, despite benzo brain, I'm doing okay with words/writing (and have taught English); I can figure out tips and do basic math when required, but anything requiring multiple steps and numbers just isn't in my current mental repertoire 

 

The multiple steps involved, of even trying to get ahold of my prescriber at this point, feel so difficult. I don't even have an appt. until the end of May. My sense of terror is so severe at how quickly these symptoms seem to have escalated. Just a few days ago I somehow made it to the grocery store; now my own kitchen seems scary territory. You felt confident though trying something new and carefully abandoning the Klonopin despite scary perceptual distortions, etc.? Was it a matter of having reached a point of no return? Did you "waffle" for a while? I truly appreciate knowing your experience has some commonality with mine. I thought I was the only one stuck in such a bad place on my Kpin dose, not able to lower it.

[[ki...]]

Delsol, can you go to google and print the Ashton Manual.  It has an equivalency chart in it,

 

Mary: I see a generalized equivalency chart on Google; what I don't see is how to cross gradually from K to V -- is there a specific equivalency chart in that regard? What I mean is: Starting at .5mg K, is there a chart for slowly incorporating more V while reducing the K? I only see a generalized table. Since I'm not quitting the K but have to gradually cross over, is there a table for how that is incrementally done? Maybe I'm not looking at the right links.

 

Momof7babes: Thank you for the advice and the link. Regarding the spreadsheet: How did you find that or come up with it? I'm sure your accounting skills helped; me, despite benzo brain, I'm doing okay with words/writing (and have taught English); I can figure out tips and do basic math when required, but anything requiring multiple steps and numbers just isn't in my current mental repertoire 

 

The multiple steps involved, of even trying to get ahold of my prescriber at this point, feel so difficult. I don't even have an appt. until the end of May. My sense of terror is so severe at how quickly these symptoms seem to have escalated. Just a few days ago I somehow made it to the grocery store; now my own kitchen seems scary territory. You felt confident though trying something new and carefully abandoning the Klonopin despite scary perceptual distortions, etc.? Was it a matter of having reached a point of no return? Did you "waffle" for a while? I truly appreciate knowing your experience has some commonality with mine. I thought I was the only one stuck in such a bad place on my Kpin dose, not able to lower it.

 

The Ashton manual has a gradual cross over schedule from K to V using 1.5 mg K to 30 mg V as the example. But for instance what I did was drop .25 mg K and add 5 mg V every 2 weeks. (I was on 1 mg K)

 

Example:

1st step: .5 mg K AM and .25 mg K/5 mg V PM (2 weeks)

2nd step: .5 mg K AM and 10 mg V PM (2 weeks)

3rd step: .25 mg K/5 mg V AM and 10 mg V PM (2 weeks)

4th step: 10 mg V AM/PM (I started tapering at this point, but you could always hold)

[[Mo...]]

The decision was not made lightly, believe me.  I waffled over it for some time and my scared brain tried to convince me otherwise.  For some, this works out well and some it doesn't and I knew that.  Trying ANYTHING new is scary in this, anything.  But I was separated for 6 of my 7 kids for over 6 weeks - we had to send them to my sister-in-law's because I was SO bad, I couldn't be around them.  All their noises, movements, etc.  I was in such a desperate place.  I know there are resources out there - there are boards on here to help people with crossovers and tapers, calculations. 

 

If it were me, and I was taking two doses and wanted to c/o, I personally would split that into 4 parts of a crossover.  I would take .125 mg and transition it to 2 to 2.5mg of Valium - note that Valium tablets come in 2 mg and 5 mg.  I would hold a week or two, see what symptoms come and then abate, and then I would do another .125 mg...same thing.  That's just how I would go about it personally but some would be different.  I've heard of others do a straight c/o and be just fine but I don't recommend.  I've known of others ADD the Valium and take both meds for a week to allow the Valium to build up and then drop the Klonopin.  I was trying to do Ashton as close as possible so stepwise is just how I did it. 

[[de...]]

I am terribly sorry to hear of how difficult and painful it must have been, to try and raise your children during this and also be separated from them. I myself never had children and fortunately have a supportive spouse, but even caring for our cat right now feels like a daunting task. I get confused and actually scared of him, even though he's just an innocent cat. I am scared of everything right now: My own face in the mirror, my own hands, the tea kettle, any sudden movements, any sounds.

 

I will strongly consider your idea to do a slow crossover. I thank you for your honesty about "waffling." This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done: Coming off psych meds. I have already put my body/brain through a lot over the past 14 or so months, coming off antidepressants and gabapentin. I found myself "stuck" on K during the end of my antidepressant taper; the lower on the ADs I went, the more my anxiety spiked, so I used my 1mg PRN dose a few times per week until a doctor switched me to .5mg daily. That was 3 months ago. Going back to 1mg is no longer an option though; it's as if my brain has seen enough of K. Some advice from others that I've gotten is to not try any crossovers right now, as my brain has seen enough change; I can also see the relevance of that point-of-view.

 

I will probably keep checking in here rather frequently, as decisions have to be made and I want to avoid a serious crisis.