Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Fi...]]

I'm about to start a taper from 5mg DZ after 18 years.

 

I'm tempted to do a liquid micro taper but I'm confused about the liquid valium.

 

Some say they get it from a compounded pharmacy - does that mean each does is in a separate vial?

 

I see people do a hybrid taper, that there is a danger in getting SX just from switching from dry to wet - anyone have any experience?

[[Al...]]

I started half and half at 4 mg w no problems.  Im tapering the liquid using a syringe with no needle.  I don't know when Ill begin just tapering the liquid, just playing it by symptoms.  I started with 15 mg Dia.  I got the liquid from the grocery store pharmacy.

 

Good luck.

 

Alycat

[[Sl...]]

I posted this to the general board. Was hoping I could get some feedback here. I think I am experiencing valium lag.

 

I have been using liquid V to cut and was doing a slow gradual cut, fractions of a cut each day with a liquid base and then a liquid cut. It was rather precise and set to 5-10% per month. See my post history for how I did it. When I hit 1 mg, I was told by my doctor that this was kind of below threshold of V and that I could cut quicker. I switched to a fixed cut each week.  When I got to 1 mg. I did a cut of .04 mg per week so I cut 16% in one month. Fast forward to now, when I cut about 25% over 6 weeks. I am at 0.76 mg and I hit a symptom wall. For me it is wake up in the middle of this night insomnia, lightheadedness and less ability to tolerate stress, and resulting anger. Not nearly as bad as other bad waves, but I have held about a week or so and am trying to sort this out. I think it got worse with work stress, partly with the sun rising so early that it's hard for me to sleep enough, and probably valium lag.

 

I am going to do a hold and just go slow, but do you think I was cutting too quick and got valium lag? Does anyone know how long the lag can be? I am content slowing down, because a couple months ago I had a really nice window which lasted for at least 4 weeks. I just felt so great during that time and I was at about 1 mg and my doc suggested I could try faster. I guess this post is proof that went too quick. Should I go back to 10% per month and keep a fixed 10%? This means each month I cut less and less slowing down the process.

[[Sl...]]

First taper,

In the US you can get valium liquid at the pharmacy 1mg / 1 ml. It is easier to do a micro taper I think with liquids. I wrote a post on a method I used to go from 3.75 to now 0.76. Look at my post history to find details, it is not very long. Feel free to send me a question.

[[Al...]]

Well Sleeper and others on this board.  I was thinking that I didn't have to be so accurate in my taper.  I was planning to jump to 3.25 tonight from 3 weeks of 3.5.  I planned to drop .25 the next cut but am I being unrealistic?  Should I do a daily microdose cut? My sxs are T and insomnia mainly.  I could use some experienced advice.

 

Alycat

[[Sl...]]

Ally,

I don't know that you need to do a micro taper, but you should probably cut slower rather than faster. My doc had me cut at 5-10% per month, but I learned I was very sensitive. So that's just me. You are proposing a big cut from 4 --> 3.25 in 4 weeks seems rather big. I am not sure what the Ashton manual says. I am clearly going way slower than Ashton myself.

 

The more I think about this, and writing is forcing me to do so, is that there is no perfect answer.

 

[[Al...]]

Thanks.  I’ll let ya know how it goes.

 

Alycat

[[Su...]]

I posted this to the general board. Was hoping I could get some feedback here. I think I am experiencing valium lag.

 

I have been using liquid V to cut and was doing a slow gradual cut, fractions of a cut each day with a liquid base and then a liquid cut. It was rather precise and set to 5-10% per month. See my post history for how I did it. When I hit 1 mg, I was told by my doctor that this was kind of below threshold of V and that I could cut quicker. I switched to a fixed cut each week.  When I got to 1 mg. I did a cut of .04 mg per week so I cut 16% in one month. Fast forward to now, when I cut about 25% over 6 weeks. I am at 0.76 mg and I hit a symptom wall. For me it is wake up in the middle of this night insomnia, lightheadedness and less ability to tolerate stress, and resulting anger. Not nearly as bad as other bad waves, but I have held about a week or so and am trying to sort this out. I think it got worse with work stress, partly with the sun rising so early that it's hard for me to sleep enough, and probably valium lag.

 

I am going to do a hold and just go slow, but do you think I was cutting too quick and got valium lag? Does anyone know how long the lag can be? I am content slowing down, because a couple months ago I had a really nice window which lasted for at least 4 weeks. I just felt so great during that time and I was at about 1 mg and my doc suggested I could try faster. I guess this post is proof that went too quick. Should I go back to 10% per month and keep a fixed 10%? This means each month I cut less and less slowing down the process.

 

Hi Sleeper,

I know that docs think they sometimes know more than we do about this whole tapering process, but sometimes the literature they are looking at doesn't match lived experience.  Even the Venerable Ashton would have us going much more quickly than many can tolerate. 

In my experience and in reading on these boards the last 1mg is just as powerful in our systems as any other mg.  Meaning that I believe you're experiencing the large cut rate that you've gone to.

While it will slow the process down to return to the 5-10% you've been tapering at, it might mean that you are more comfortable as you go.  I know that for much of my taper I've had to go less than 5%, and I intend to go that speed until the end.  A gentle walk off...

 

Hope that is of some help.

 

[[Sl...]]

Thank you sufferingsixty for your insight.

Slow seems the only way to go...

[[Ph...]]

Has anyone been able to stick to Ashton schedule all the way down?  I see a lot of people slowing down and I get it.  I felt the w/d's when i c/t'd for 4 days from Ativan back in April.  Ended up reinstating to 1mg Ativan.

 

However, since then i have cut out Ambien 10mg dose to 0.  Accomplished in 3 weeks.

Over this same 3 weeks i subbed to valium and cut while i subbed.  1mg Ativan to 7mg Valium.

I waited 2 weeks, cut to 6mg.

I waited another 2 weeks and have cut to 5mg.

 

So far i have had barely any w/d.  I am of course feeling lucky and grateful to be where i am. But now i am getting nervous that if i keep to Ashton schedule where i just cut 1mg every 2 weeks it will eventually hit hard. 

 

Should i slow down or just keep going until i get w/d's?

[[Su...]]

Has anyone been able to stick to Ashton schedule all the way down?  I see a lot of people slowing down and I get it.  I felt the w/d's when i c/t'd for 4 days from Ativan back in April.  Ended up reinstating to 1mg Ativan.

 

However, since then i have cut out Ambien 10mg dose to 0.  Accomplished in 3 weeks.

Over this same 3 weeks i subbed to valium and cut while i subbed.  1mg Ativan to 7mg Valium.

I waited 2 weeks, cut to 6mg.

I waited another 2 weeks and have cut to 5mg.

 

So far i have had barely any w/d.  I am of course feeling lucky and grateful to be where i am. But now i am getting nervous that if i keep to Ashton schedule where i just cut 1mg every 2 weeks it will eventually hit hard. 

 

Should i slow down or just keep going until i get w/d's?

 

Perhaps you are one of the lucky ones!  And i hope you are.  :thumbsup:  It's cuts that add up that can be surprising, but the waiting of two weeks with NO increase in wd sxs would be a sign in my mind. 

I think for me it's important to be mindful of what my body is feeling me around tapering -- and if is looking like it can deal with a quick taper that's fantastic.  And yes I realize that the Ashton protocol isn't hat quick -- just faster than many can tolerate ( I'm SO in that boat...)

Congrats on your accomplishments so far -- what a journey

 

[[Ph...]]

Has anyone been able to stick to Ashton schedule all the way down?  I see a lot of people slowing down and I get it.  I felt the w/d's when i c/t'd for 4 days from Ativan back in April.  Ended up reinstating to 1mg Ativan.

 

However, since then i have cut out Ambien 10mg dose to 0.  Accomplished in 3 weeks.

Over this same 3 weeks i subbed to valium and cut while i subbed.  1mg Ativan to 7mg Valium.

I waited 2 weeks, cut to 6mg.

I waited another 2 weeks and have cut to 5mg.

 

So far i have had barely any w/d.  I am of course feeling lucky and grateful to be where i am. But now i am getting nervous that if i keep to Ashton schedule where i just cut 1mg every 2 weeks it will eventually hit hard. 

 

Should i slow down or just keep going until i get w/d's?

 

Perhaps you are one of the lucky ones!  And i hope you are.  :thumbsup:  It's cuts that add up that can be surprising, but the waiting of two weeks with NO increase in wd sxs would be a sign in my mind. 

I think for me it's important to be mindful of what my body is feeling me around tapering -- and if is looking like it can deal with a quick taper that's fantastic.  And yes I realize that the Ashton protocol isn't hat quick -- just faster than many can tolerate ( I'm SO in that boat...)

Congrats on your accomplishments so far -- what a journey

 

I certainly know i have been lucky so far!  I am so so thankful to be halfway done with little symptoms. I just keep thinking something is going to hit. When i c/t’d i made it 4 days and then underdosed for 3 more before fully reinstating. That week and the next were terrible. Full blown akathisia. Hypnic jerks where it felt like my brain was doing a summersault right before and i would jolt awake. And sky high anxiety. I keep feeling that some of that is going to come back. Even though i am now going moderately slow (at least Ashton standard slow). My goal is to continue working through this, so i plan to slow down regardless when i get to 4mg.

 

Thank you for the words of encouragement!  Praying that you have a healthy recovery and successful taper.

[[or...]]

Phizzle I found Ashton to be too fast/big for me at 5mg. From 15 to 5 I followed her schedule and felt okay. But maybe cuts caught up . . . who knows. Any how I reduced the size of my cuts from what she suggests on her schedule and did okay down to about 1 mgs. Then I had to go to a DLMT (daily liquid microtaper) which was even better for me and let me get down to zero with minimal s/x. Not saying you should do this . . . just offering my experience.

 

Best to you.

 

Katz

[[Ph...]]

Phizzle I found Ashton to be too fast/big for me at 5mg. From 15 to 5 I followed her schedule and felt okay. But maybe cuts caught up . . . who knows. Any how I reduced the size of my cuts from what she suggests on her schedule and did okay down to about 1 mgs. Then I had to go to a DLMT (daily liquid microtaper) which was even better for me and let me get down to zero with minimal s/x. Not saying you should do this . . . just offering my experience.

 

Best to you.

 

Katz

 

 

Thank you for the info!!  Still debating on liquid vs dry micro taper once I get a bit lower but I am glad to hear from someone with similar experience.  I will probably slow down after I hit my 4mg drop in 8 days.  Depending on any symptoms of course.

[[ne...]]

Hello Katz, I also found Ashton too fast, I cut 2,5% instead. I have a question, also. How exactly did you do the DLMT? Is there a place where I can find that information?

 

Thank you, and wish you continued improvement!

[[or...]]

Hi new0girl:

 

I don't know if there is an "official" place on BB that describes how to do a DLMT. But here's my version, which is by no means the "gospel" (it's criticized for the solubility of valium in vodka . . . a valid point) but it worked for me. I tapered by1 ml of this mixture for 100 days . . . that's how long it took me to taper off the last 1 mg of valium.

 

1. Take a 1 mg valium tablet

2. Drop it into  2 ml of vodka or everclear in a 100 ml beaker (buy at Amazon).  Let stand for 5 minutes

3. Add 98 mls of water and stir well.

4. Use a 1ml syringe (buy at Amazon) to withdraw 1 ml of the mixture.

5. Toss the 1ml you withdrew down the sink. Drink the rest.

6. Wash the beaker and get ready for tomorrow, at which time you will make up the same mixture, but you will withdraw 2 mls of it and so on until you're done.

 

If you'd rather be more precise, you can get liquid valium from the pharmacy and substitute 1 ml of it for the 1 mg tablet I used.

 

That's it! Easy peasy. Cuts did not catch up with me and I was able to slither gently off.

 

Best wishes,

 

Katz

 

 

[[ne...]]

Thank you, Katz, for taking the time to explain your version for a DLMT. 

 

Just to make sure I understood correctly, you diluted 1 mg of Valium into 100ml liquid, so a ratio of 1:100, that means each day you reduced by 0.01 mg of Valium, is that right?

 

It's going to be a bit tricky for me to implement this, because I live in Eastern Europe and the smallest dosage available is 10mg Valium (with instructions on the label to NOT cut the tablet). Also, asking for liquid Valium at the pharmacy will in the best case get them to laugh at me and in the worse get me committed for asking such lunacy

 

I'm currently diluting the 10mg Valium in 100ml liquid, so a ratio of 1:10. Each time I cut it's by 0.1 mg Valium. Will see if I can get some smaller syringes to DIY my titration.

 

Nevertheless, I appreciate your clear and thorough explanation. 

 

Wish you continued improvement,

NG

[[or...]]

This is correct, new0girl:

 

Just to make sure I understood correctly, you diluted 1 mg of Valium into 100ml liquid, so a ratio of 1:100, that means each day you reduced by 0.01 mg of Valium, is that right?

 

I get the problem you have with the 10 mgs of valium. However, if you wanted a 1:100 solution, you could add more water. Yeah, it would be a lot more water, but . . .

 

Best to you,

 

Katz

[[sp...]]

Hi, Question.....was on xanax for a few months before got switched over to valium to get off the benzos....got down from 10 to 5MG then got stuck cause of various reasons.  Ive been on this 5MG valium now for about 2-3 months? I am having really bad depression, im not sure if its my situation, my age or the valium. Ive never been this depressed in my life. Sometimes i just go and start crying for no reason and mope around all day long its terrible. Is this normal for valium?

[[Al...]]

Hi Spitfire,

 

I can only speak for myself but I tapered down from 15 mg V and I'm now at 2.8 mg.  I have had some short periods of sadness but I believe mine is sadness about being stuck on this stupid taper and not able to keep up with my expectations and previous happy life.  Everyone is different. I do know that Im hungrier than I used to be but no mental sxs.  I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables and drink water.  Could your moods be diet related?

 

Hoping it clears for you. 

 

Alycat

[[sp...]]

Idk, i got a bunch of things going on....one of them i gave up alcohol about 12 days ago as well....maybe thats it. While going down from 10mg to 5mg i became an alcoholic and was up to drinking close to half a fifth of whiskey a day. Its been 12 days since i had any alcohol and man was that rough getting through the first 4 days but i recovered. Going to start to go down again tonight on valium, got no choice Dr. has let me sit on 5MG for a few months now and wants me off....so shes putting squeeze on me to start tapering again. Thats fine, i will get off this crap at some point here and then can finally let all healing begin. I honestly dont think healing starts until your fully off this garbage. Its just the getting off it that is so hard sometimes. No one including my wife or Dr. understand how hard it can be when you take a cut in the meds...how can they, theyve never been through it.

[[Al...]]

You're absolutely right.  No one can understand benzo withdrawal unless they've done it.  I have friends in 12 step recovery and they don't get it either.  You're on a journey and you have support here.  We may all be at the same rest stop but we are traveling different paths I suppose. Take comfort and be grateful that you've come this far.  You're a warrior, you're safe and you'll heal.  This too shall pass.

 

Wishing you peace,

 

Alycat