Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [yo...]]

Thanks for the information every one. I did purchase a scale, but maybe when I get to the lower doses, my pharmacist can help. I know you get what you pay for in a scale. I have to stay on the dose I'm at now for three weeks, because I have to travel out of town then and don't want to have any problems.

 

Should I taper by 1/8 mg until I reach 1 mg and then micro-taper?

 

Today was my first day back at the gym. Hope I can keep it up.

 

Thanks again.

 

I'll be honest, for someone like me a mirotapter is dropping in 5mg increments off of chemicals 10x the potency of valium, so I wouldn't know how to advise someone on such low doses, but if I was in a situation where I had to chop up a pill, I'd rather have some cheap scales to do it than nothing.  Then again I'd jut opt for liquid titration to increase the margin for error on meaurement.  The liquid provides the accuracy (or the tolerance) that scales can't.

 

Actually seeingmy own words say that, I'm now wondering if it's viable for microtaperers to use small container like a thimble to get the weight up (increasing tolerances) and add the crushed pill to it to get a more even dosing..

 

I've now got that as an idea in my head so maybe there is a way you guys could use the cheaper scales but get better accuracy by adding 2 grams of milk before the powedered pill.

 

Any thoughts on that workaround?  That shouldn't be vastly significant if the tolerances are brought up some, shouldn't it?

 

I personally would never notice the difference between 0.5 and 0.6mg of anything but a powerful psychedelic.  That change in benzos is irrelevant to my body and it wouldn't notice it, but for those who are super-sensitive to chemicals.. a 0.1 to 0.4mg shift in dose one day can make all the difference.

 

Basically for those who have to use scales for whatever reson, it's better to add weight somehow to increase the tolerances. A 2-5g weight of milk, or other poweder or whatever should bump up the tolerance quite a bit.  It still won't be accurate but it gets a lot better measuring one tenth of a mg more accurately when the scale is already hovvering around the 2g+ mark.

 

Could be a workable compromise for some of you.

[[en...]]

Thanks again every one. I was thinking about adding some weight to get a better measurement. I will definitely try that.

 

Hope everyone can have a nice day.

[Guest [yo...]]

I'd say what have you got to lose by trying?  Then again I don't know how sensitive you are to dose changes and there are people in this thread far more knowledgeable about microtapers than I am, so in that regard I'd value their advice over mine.. I just like like randomly coming into threads and throwing a big bag of complex logistical problems into the mix to keep the forum on its toes.  It's my 'thing'

 

Seriously, though, I do wish you every success.  Which, really, is a bit of a thin, vane compliment because it assumes you or anyone needs the well-wishes, as if you're not going to be free on your own anyway, which you are.

 

Right, anyway, I better scoot before I get lynched.  That hapens, too.

 

 

J

[[en...]]

You're all good yobiwan. You're right, what do I have to lose, other than my sanity!

[Guest [yo...]]

Well, I've always felt that sanity is highly overrated anyway so..

[[bu...]]

Hey guys,

 

 

Just throwing this into the mix for consideration..

 

Regarding the dry cutting method and accuracy of weight scales, I think that the accuracy will be noticed the most in the beginning when the first cut is made.  If a person uses the same scale and same method with each does reduction, then I expect that the subsequent incremental doses will be consistent.  I don't have any experience with dry cutting, other than finding out that it absolutely doesn't work without a scale, but I think that this concept applies to all methods - titration and dry cutting.  The losses due to containers, measurement tools, etc., will manifest predominately with the first dose and then the subsequent dose reductions will be incremental with the initial inaccuracy already locked in.  I would be interested to hear if anyone has a different view on this concept.

 

 

 

Consistency, I totally agree, is the key.  Cheap scales can't provide that.  That's why the price difference between inaccurate jewellers scales and proper accurate lab scales is thousands of pounds rather than a couple of hundred.

 

 

 

 

Consistency is more important than accuracy!!

 

However, if you get session-to-session scale variability, as some users report, it will be hard to achieve consistency.

[[Kg...]]

I am doing a daily taper using the 'cheap scale' and I have found it works just fine. In fact sometimes I have to re-weigh pills when I add in a hold and I just check the pill weight I have cut before and it is the same.  Many people use these 'inaccurate' scales just fine - and have managed to micro taper off.  So please - if you want to micro taper you can use the inexpensive scales - just measure your pills and go ahead.  It is certainly more accurate then eyeballing your pill.  I could not do a liquid taper - the liquid didn't work for me at all and this is a viable alternative that allows me to cut slowly. 

[Guest [yo...]]

Well, thanks for clearing-up that the science, chemists, pharmacists, evidence, facts, people who spend up to twenty grand on lab scales to measure accurately at those measurements, and people who've almost died and indeed frieds of mine who HAVE died from using cheap jewllers scales are all talking shit.

 

Because you say so.

 

I'll go add that to Doug's gravestone first thing in the morning.

 

Thanks for the headsup.

 

[[We...]]

Hi Kgirl, and Yobiwan,

 

I think you both represent good and valid sides of the argument. I truly believe there are people out there, who are less sensitive to cuts, that can use the less expensensive/accurate scales, and if they are super careful and diligent, they can manage to taper off successfully.

 

I do also believe that for people who are extremely sensitive, and may be more "benzo-sick" who if they use the less expensive scales, may have a really hard time and not do well at all.

 

Besides any personal experience, logic dictates, the more accurate something is, the better etc. so obviously if we all had a trillion dollars, and had nanobots available to deliver us the exact perfect dose during our taper, that would be the best and most logical route. But life is life, and we have to work with the tools we have, right?

 

I hope we can still keep this thread positive and encouraging to one another, while still expressing our thoughts and advice. I really thank you both for your advice and thoughts on this matter.

 

Hugs,

Shannon

 

 

[Guest [yo...]]

^ Received.

 

 

To everyone.. I'm certainly not saying NOT to use jewellers scales and have suggested ways to use them more accurately with benzos, but just waving over the issues and saying "go ahead and use them and you'll have no problems", especially after the facts have been presented, is a bit dismissive to say the least and I'd quesion anyone giving advice in that manner and to the contrary of the science... and I'm merely concerned that it could confuse and even encourage inepexpeienced members to use those scales for more dangerous drugs, too.

 

That must be clearly stated by someone if dangerous advice is being produced, but I've said my bit already and I'll respect the tone of the group and leave you guys to make up your minds from available facts.

 

Sorry if I got snarky but I'm a bit aggravated by my own emotions over some of these issues.

 

But, I go in peace.

 

 

J

[[We...]]

I very much agree, Yobiwan!

 

I agree that you NEED to share your knowledge and expertise because this is a dangerous, dangerous process that none of us can take lightly. I am very happy, and I'm sure other are, that you chimed in to share the facts about the seriousness and shortcomings of the less expensive scales. I really think its important for people to know this.

 

I can't tell you how many times reading something on here quite literally saved my life, because I was sooo uniformed and suffering horribly during this taper.

 

Please don't leave. We really value your opinion here. It's ok to have emotions and even disagreements. I just wanted us to remain friends. Heck, I don't think its possible to NOT have emotions during a benzo withdrawl...or about this sensitive subject. we all have been thru so much and we all have known others who have suffered. so, it's BOUND to be a super sensitive subject.

 

Please stay and contribute often. we need your knowledge!! hehe.

 

Hugs, shannon

 

 

[[en...]]

Again, thanks for all the information. I do agree with some having problems with sensitivity to drugs, myself being one.

 

I'm mad I dropped two grand on a scale, wait....I don't have two grand. Must have bought the $25 one. Oh well.

 

Now for the dumb question, by how much do I want to taper down? I'm terribly with numbers. I'm sure I could find the answer if I combed this site, but that would take too long. Plus I'm lazy.

 

Yobiwan--you make me laugh! Love ya!

[[dp...]]

Seriously, this thread is awesome! Please, everybody, no hard feelings... it's great to read all of these bits of information... it helps all of us who are having a hard time make sense of everything and put together a well thought out, well informed plan!

 

My take on it? It would seem that using liquid benzo would be ideal when titrating/daily cutting... and me thinks that's exactly what I'm going to give another shot.

 

I'll be at 6mg very shortly... 3 little 2mg Valium pills ... and then I have Roxane Liquid Valium. Will take 5mg in pills and 1mg in liquid and cut from the liquid portion. I tried this before and it was a failure... I'm not sure why... but I'll be planning on getting on the liquid valium and staying on both for a week before I cut anything.

 

It shouldn't matter if it's liquid or not... that's the part I don't get and why I don't understand why some people don't handle liquid or feel it's a cut. :/

 

Speaking about getting out and taking our minds off this... anyone get out and see Jurassic World yet? LOL... I don't think that'd be too much for our fragile lil CNS's.

[Guest [yo...]]

I'm cool.  I'll be around to add my thoughts from time-time, but I don't need to labour the point over the scales any more than I have and be a spoilsport.

 

J

[[We...]]

hehe, good to know, J/Yobiwon!

 

And Dpier, I swear I was JUST thinking about Jurassic World. I may have to wear sunglasses and ear plugs, but I want to goooooooooooooooooooo! hehe.

 

Enough, SHarky, and builder are super good at help making up tapering schedules. I am just so new, I wouldn't be able to help you much.

 

Shan

[[dp...]]

I'm cool.  I'll be around to add my thoughts from time-time, but I don't need to labour the point over the scales any more than I have and be a spoilsport.

 

J

 

What is your opinion on equal drug distribution in Valium pills? That would seem to be the most important issue, at least I'd think... because if you don't have that... you have nothing at all.

 

 

[[dp...]]

I will be at 6mg on Wednesday... the one thing I DON'T get is, why in the world did I have trouble doing the 1mg Roxane Liquid Valium and the rest in pills? There is no rational reason I see for this being the case. It would circumvent every problem I currently have... and every worry regarding pill weights, accuracies, distributions... it would make things a breeze compared to where they are now... The symptoms that I've been going through are nowhere near something someone who's been micro-tapering 5-10% a month should feel. So I may do about a week hold on 6mg pills, switch to 6mg Roxane/pills again, and then try that one more time.

 

I don't know if I gave the liquid enough time... and I threw other variables into the mix... .... I started cutting right off the bat, I made a cut in my steroid dose around that time... don't know.

[[dp...]]

hehe, good to know, J/Yobiwon!

 

And Dpier, I swear I was JUST thinking about Jurassic World. I may have to wear sunglasses and ear plugs, but I want to goooooooooooooooooooo! hehe.

 

Enough, SHarky, and builder are super good at help making up tapering schedules. I am just so new, I wouldn't be able to help you much.

 

Shan

 

Going tomorrow with a fraaand. Should be intense. I needed to put a plug in for that because it needed to happen, lol ..

 

ps: When are you going to give the liquid titration a try? I'm going to be starting it fairly shortly too. If it doesn't work again, will have to settle for the scales.

 

 

[Guest [yo...]]

I'm cool.  I'll be around to add my thoughts from time-time, but I don't need to labour the point over the scales any more than I have and be a spoilsport.

 

J

 

What is your opinion on equal drug distribution in Valium pills? That would seem to be the most important issue, at least I'd think... because if you don't have that... you have nothing at all.

Do you mean like.. in the prescribed pills they sell?

 

As far as I understand it if one gets properly pressed pills they're all supposed to come to a specific standard of active ingredients which is 'supposedly' very tightly controlled.  Personally, I've never noticed any variation with properly prescribed pills, but have noticed a massive variation in actve ingredient when buying Research Chemical benzos.. as in the difference between not noticing it all and falling asleep out of nowere from a 1/4 of the amount from a different source.

 

But you're right, it's still a consideration because it's the first link in OUR chain, because we're told that this pill has X amount of drug, and that's the only benchmark we have.  But, if it's not accuately made?  The measurements will be out, too.

 

I suppose this is a good time to ask everyone here if they've noticed or heard of dose-variations among individual batches or pills within batches, because it really wouldn't surprise me if they have.

 

 

J

[Guest [yo...]]

hehe, good to know, J/Yobiwon!

 

And Dpier, I swear I was JUST thinking about Jurassic World. I may have to wear sunglasses and ear plugs, but I want to goooooooooooooooooooo! hehe.

Thanks for the warm welcome mat, and yeah I have to see JP , too, as it'll resolve a different set of issues that Spielberg created for me as an adult

[[Kg...]]

I really wonder if people here thought that I believed that a laboratory grade scale gave better weights than the cheapo $25.00 one on Amazon.  I also find the reply to my post that someone actually died  or almost died using a scale to micro taper a benzo to be a very scary post to many here who are doing just that.  I do not think the post was okay and no I do not wish to create waves here -we get enough of those already trying to get off of these drugs. 

 

 

[[sh...]]

Again, thanks for all the information. I do agree with some having problems with sensitivity to drugs, myself being one.

 

I'm mad I dropped two grand on a scale, wait....I don't have two grand. Must have bought the $25 one. Oh well.

 

Now for the dumb question, by how much do I want to taper down? I'm terribly with numbers. I'm sure I could find the answer if I combed this site, but that would take too long. Plus I'm lazy.

 

Yobiwan--you make me laugh! Love ya!

 

Enough2015,

 

If you are using a scale, i would do .01mg every other day and see how you feel.  So:

 

Day 1: 1.25mg

Day 2: 1.24mg

Day 3: 1.24mg

Day 4: 1.23mg

Day 5: 1.23mg

Day 6: 1.22mg

Day 7: 1.22mg

And So On... 

 

That would be equivalent of .005mg a day with titration.  If you were using titration i would suggest starting at a rate of .0025mg a day after you do a 2 week hold to get use to the liquid.  So if the above rate is too fast you could cut .01mg every 4 days instead of every other day.  I hope that helps!

 

Everyone, I will be very busy this week because my boss is out of town which means my work load has doubled.  I will try to answer specific questions but will not have much time to chit chat.  Keep trucking everyone!  I am down to .0475mg Clonazepam today and have less than 19 days in my taper.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

 

[Guest [yo...]]

I really wonder if people here thought that I believed that a laboratory grade scale gave better weights than the cheapo $25.00 one on Amazon.  I also find the reply to my post that someone actually died  or almost died using a scale to micro taper a benzo to be a very scary post to many here who are doing just that.  I do not think the post was okay and no I do not wish to create waves here -we get enough of those already trying to get off of these drugs.

 

 

Well, I'd have to say that dropping this counter-intuitive claim in the middle of a discussion:

 

I am doing a daily taper using the 'cheap scale' and I have found it works just fine. In fact sometimes I have to re-weigh pills when I add in a hold and I just check the pill weight I have cut before and it is the same.  Many people use these 'inaccurate' scales just fine - and have managed to micro taper off.  So please - if you want to micro taper you can use the inexpensive scales - just measure your pills and go ahead.

 

...showing the pitfalls of taking this approach with cheap scales is likely to first attract attention to your claims and put them under scrutiny, but also cause people to see you directly contradicting those talking about the risks of assumptions over cheap scales, as you knd of.. casually told everyone to disregard the discussion about proper scales and to go ahead and use cheap ones.

 

As noted, that's sort of.. not helpful to the majority of members and you sort of.. openly advocated that approach in the middle of a discussion warning against a cavalier attitude to scales when microtapering, by contradicting the safer and more thorough approach.

 

So yah.. no offence meant, but it hit a nerve with me and I told you why.  Death, in and of itself, is discussed on the forum minute-to-minute and members don't really need protecting from discussions about it, or the supression of discussion over it when we're dealing with drugs that can cause death and addiction.  That sort of seems counter-intuitive to the forum as a whole.  I know this because I helped write the suicide policy for the forum and a separate one for the team andso ar as I can see those policies and philosophies are still in place.

 

Am I direct about that?  You bet, this is a serious business, not like cutting down on cigarettes.  Am I freaking out all angry and furiously typing this on my keyboard?  Nah, too tired.  But I'm more concerned with people's safety over thier emotions so I tend to be direct when their safety is treated casually.

 

I'm certainly not arguing about this, I'm just making my point.  Albeit a bit grumpy earlier on when it hit a nerve.

 

 

J

 

 

 

[[Kg...]]

Enough if you need to know how to do a dry micro taper -  Clona has it spelled out in depth on the Klonopin board so I suggest you go there and see how she sets it up.  Just scroll backwards and you will see her posts on how to do a dry taper. 

[Guest [yo...]]

I know how it's done, Kgirl, I have nearly three decades of poly-drug-taking experience, including using various commercial scales for both safe and lethal substances.

 

What everyone's discussing here isn't how to administer, it's whether it's safe to assume, and whether that will affect a microtaperer of all taperers.  Clearly, it's not even arguable that it will have a significant effect on some people to adopt such a cavalier attutude to measuring tiny quantities of a drug, so we need that discussion to continue for the sake of the many without someone else trying to silence the science and the facts with their personal opinion.

 

That's not an unreasonable ask, even from me.

 

 

 

J