Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[no...]]

PS there is a much more complex explanation with diagrams than sentences I quoted on the link 

 

 

Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[dp...]]

Hey Dan, I see in your sig that you take HC and Armour. Would I be correct in assuming that your adrenals and thyroid got blasted? Of course, 21+ years on clon would blast the space shuttle into the stratosphere as I've experienced, much less adrenal glands and thyroid. So, I FINALLY figured out how and why my thyroid and adrenals got whacked. I'm getting help from a good D.O. for my thyroid, but she said she can't really help me with my adrenals. She said I need to see a good Functional med doc. Who do/did you see about getting help with your adrenals and thyroid? Also, I been told by numerous people and docs that treating the thyroid without FIRST having well-functioning adrenals will be a problem...increased anxiety, extra stress on the adrenals, cortisol issues, etc. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this and, again, how you got help with the adrenals and thyroid.

 

Keep rockin' it!!!

 

♪ ♫ Love in an elevator!! ♪ ♫

 

Hey Ultra.

 

It's a long story, but long story shortened, I was put on the Hydrocortisone with no evidence from any cortisol tests that my adrenals were malfunctioning. They were stressed no doubt, as I was in benzo c/t withdrawal and celexa cold turkey withdrawal at the time (didn't know or consider this... I guess I was so far removed I just didn't know what was going on), but they weren't damaged and they certainly didn't warrant going on a corticosteroid. And NOTHING warrants that IMHO unless you are to the point of Addison's disease or some kind of severe Adrenal Insufficiency and you have no choice... which is rare.

 

Basically... my doctor is an open minded guy.. good guy.. more alternative as well as MD.. and he put me on 20mg HC telling me it'd be no trouble getting off and I just never ended up going off of it for some reason... this was three years ago... and by now my adrenals are no doubt blunted from the steroid use, because that's what happens when you take something like Prednisone or Hydrocortisone... it halts your body's own production of cortisol in as little as a few days, and then you have to spend months weaning off so your body starts producing it's own cortisol again... it can be a horrible process... and I'd say stay AWAY from them. As far as you can get.

 

Glandulars are on option... never tried them so you'd have to do some research.

 

My suggestion would be to clean up your diet as much as possible to wholesome foods. Start loading up on vitamin C packed vegetables such as broccoli, Kale, pretty much all the greens, Acerola Cherry is AMAZING (It's a low GI fruit, and you can buy it in a superfood form.... http://www.pacificbotanicals.com/store/Acerola-Cherry.html) ... it's gone up A LOT in price the past year for some reason, but doing research on it, it's the highest concentrated version of Vit C in nature.... Also, the B vitamins are vital... and I use Kal Nutritional Yeast (http://www.amazon.com/Kal-Nutritional-Yeast-Flakes/dp/B00020HV1E). It's loaded with B-vits, and besides eating something like bovine liver, it's the highest form you will find.

 

So from a nutritional standpoint, that's all super important... Sleep is probably right up there as most important... and I'd recommend doing as much research on 'EARTHING' as possible... I do a quick 10 min youtube video on it and I own an earthing mat... I sleep soundly every night and have for nearly 3 years now... if you can't afford a $60 mat, I'd definitely make sure I got outside barefoot in the grass for AT LEAST 15 minutes a day. You will be shocked how much that resets your body and eases the anxiety.

 

Finally, lol, I'd get a 24 hour saliva test and see what you're dealing with from an adrenal functioning standpoint... you may be able to get that fear out of your mind and your adrenals may be completely fine... and they probably are... albeit stressed from all this psych drug crap.

 

 

[[We...]]

Hey Dan, I see in your sig that you take HC and Armour. Would I be correct in assuming that your adrenals and thyroid got blasted? Of course, 21+ years on clon would blast the space shuttle into the stratosphere as I've experienced, much less adrenal glands and thyroid. So, I FINALLY figured out how and why my thyroid and adrenals got whacked. I'm getting help from a good D.O. for my thyroid, but she said she can't really help me with my adrenals. She said I need to see a good Functional med doc. Who do/did you see about getting help with your adrenals and thyroid? Also, I been told by numerous people and docs that treating the thyroid without FIRST having well-functioning adrenals will be a problem...increased anxiety, extra stress on the adrenals, cortisol issues, etc. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this and, again, how you got help with the adrenals and thyroid.

 

Keep rockin' it!!!

 

♪ ♫ Love in an elevator!! ♪ ♫

 

Hi ultra,

I hope you don't mind if I chime in. My adrenals and thyroid got blasted from stupid benzos, too.

 

Ive been trying to treat them for years, but my realization came that I will never truly heal them until I am off these darn benzos. it doesn't mean I cant support them and do good things fr them while I am tapering, but I used to get so annoyed when I would try all of these things for them and not get my heath back---it was because benzos has been robbing my health all along.

 

In my opinion doing structural things to support thyroid is ok, like chirocpractic, osteopathy, etc, but I wouldn't over supplement with thyroid stuff unless I  was working on my adrenals too.

 

I crashed my own adrenals once by using too much iodine. my thyroid started working better but I was a nutcase. there are others out there who can tolerate iodine and its actually helped their adrenal issues. but I was doing high dose iodine.

 

I'd find a good practionner, get a cortisol saliva test to see what your ranges are and see how bad the adrenals are, then u can get a better idea of hw to treat them. depending on what stage they are at, you will likely use anything for diet changes, to stress management techniques, to nutrients, to glandulars. but you will be able to heal, and this will help you come off your benzos more easily.

 

good luck with it all

shannon

 

 

Hi Shannon  here is a link to a thread where Perseverance explains to everyone who believes they have adrenal fatugie according to test results and why its no adrenal fatigue any of us actually have at all.

 

''[quote by Perseverance]''It is not adrenal fatigue...it is irregular levels of ACTH from the pituitary gland causing the adrenal outputs to be low.  Your adrenal function is more than likely fine...

 

The adrenal cannot have correct outputs if the inputs are off.

 

The inputs are off because benzos effected that part of the brain which tells the adrenals what to do.''

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44448.0

 

Some of you are no doubt going to be pissed off when you read whats really going on on the link, and while I'm here I have now begun tapering again after holding at 3.86 for two days after expecting to be holding for weeks maybe due to escalating sxs. Over the last two day's I've gone back to dropping 00.1 daily again

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

thanks for posting this , Nova. I actually do believe there is a lot of truth to this. No matter what I did to try to heal my adrenals since on benzos, I got little relief.  I believe I will only truly heal once I get off these benzos. I will read the link...thank you so much.

 

and Danpier,

 

I also have a home earthing device, called earth calm. It definitely helps me.

 

hugs,

shannon

[[Hi...]]

Can someone on this thread please help me set up a daily micro taper plan?

Maybe I'll have better luck on this thread. I am severely kindled and had to attempt to reinstate after six months because of suicidal akathisia.

 

Anyway I have been back on for a couple months I reinstated to 6mg of ativan and I never really stabilize although it did make me more functional I ended up on methadone also and it turns out that for some reason the methadone is causing me to be toxic and I have to taper off of it I'm tapering off it at 3mg a week and it's going to be he'llbut that's besides the point

 

I am in tolerance withdrawal or something cuz I'm having all my withdrawal symptoms from my previous ct withdrawal s but I'm currently on 6mg of ativan it's very scary they come in waves and I was having very good Windows but I think it was because of the methadone and it turned on me or my body is not expelling the methadone or matabalizing it correctly but again that's besides the point it is making me very sick and I m tapering off of it

 

And my other doctor whom I finally found with much difficulty knows nothing about benzos withdrawal ex rot it's dangerous and she has agreed to help me temporarily till me can find a psychiatrist to take over but I need to present a taper schedule to her.

I have a Gemini gram scale coming on Monday

 

I take 2mg of ativan 3x a day. I need help setting up a daily micro taper I don't understand how to do the math on this. How much do you shave of of each dose per day I am not clear on any of this I need someone to explain the whole process from beginning to end like a baby cuz I'm very frazzled. And in pretty bad tolerance withdrawal.

 

Hopefully some stuff will get better as I start getting down on the medication I doubt it but one can hope

 

So will someone please help me set up and understanding how to do this. I need to present it to my doctor so that she can be comfortable with this. Because she's already freaked out that I'm on such a high dose and is scared about losing her licence for prescribing such a high dose for no reason besides dependency. I haven't even tried to explain about tolerance withdrawal or that I'm very mentally and physically Ill because of fear that she will think I'm pill seeking.

 

Anyway so let's get this started so I can put it on paper 2mg 3x a day. How do I do a daily micro taper off of this using a scale. Thank you so much I really hope somebody can help me with this

[[en...]]

I'm not going to be any help,  but wanted to add that I thought I was going to do a micro-taper,  but today I found a compound pharmacy. Sounds like they'll be able to mix my liquid titration.  I meet with my psychiatrist next week, and go from there.

 

Good luck.

[[bu...]]

I'm not going to be any help,  but wanted to add that I thought I was going to do a micro-taper,  but today I found a compound pharmacy. Sounds like they'll be able to mix my liquid titration.  I meet with my psychiatrist next week, and go from there.

 

Good luck.

 

??

 

You can do a microtaper with compounded meds.

[[en...]]

I was told they can mix my liquid titration.  Other than that,  I don't have any more information.

[[Mo...]]

I was told they can mix my liquid titration.  Other than that,  I don't have any more information.

 

So, they make you a liquid there.

And then you'll use that liquid to micro taper with!

The liquid allows you to micro taper well. You'll be replacing ( part of ) your dose with liquid and taper with that.

Some you'll be cutting from the liquid.

 

Do you know the ratio of your liquid? Mine is 2:1 , meaning 1 ml liquid is 0.5 mgr Valium.

 

[[Mo...]]

Can someone on this thread please help me set up a daily micro taper plan?

Maybe I'll have better luck on this thread. I am severely kindled and had to attempt to reinstate after six months because of suicidal akathisia.

 

Anyway I have been back on for a couple months I reinstated to 6mg of ativan and I never really stabilize although it did make me more functional I ended up on methadone also and it turns out that for some reason the methadone is causing me to be toxic and I have to taper off of it I'm tapering off it at 3mg a week and it's going to be he'llbut that's besides the point

 

I am in tolerance withdrawal or something cuz I'm having all my withdrawal symptoms from my previous ct withdrawal s but I'm currently on 6mg of ativan it's very scary they come in waves and I was having very good Windows but I think it was because of the methadone and it turned on me or my body is not expelling the methadone or matabalizing it correctly but again that's besides the point it is making me very sick and I m tapering off of it

 

And my other doctor whom I finally found with much difficulty knows nothing about benzos withdrawal ex rot it's dangerous and she has agreed to help me temporarily till me can find a psychiatrist to take over but I need to present a taper schedule to her.

I have a Gemini gram scale coming on Monday

 

I take 2mg of ativan 3x a day. I need help setting up a daily micro taper I don't understand how to do the math on this. How much do you shave of of each dose per day I am not clear on any of this I need someone to explain the whole process from beginning to end like a baby cuz I'm very frazzled. And in pretty bad tolerance withdrawal.

 

Hopefully some stuff will get better as I start getting down on the medication I doubt it but one can hope

 

So will someone please help me set up and understanding how to do this. I need to present it to my doctor so that she can be comfortable with this. Because she's already freaked out that I'm on such a high dose and is scared about losing her licence for prescribing such a high dose for no reason besides dependency. I haven't even tried to explain about tolerance withdrawal or that I'm very mentally and physically Ill because of fear that she will think I'm pill seeking.

 

Anyway so let's get this started so I can put it on paper 2mg 3x a day. How do I do a daily micro taper off of this using a scale. Thank you so much I really hope somebody can help me with this

 

Hiphop, I've replied to the ativan Thread too.

 

Okay, so you're going to use a scale.

That means you will be going to use a gram scale. And your Ativan is in MGR.

So what needs to happen is you'll be cutting from the WEIGHT of the pill and not by mgr.

 

Does that make sense?

 

When do you need a schedule ?

 

My husband used to do the math for me. I couldn't comprehend anything at the time.

( I switched to Valium liquid taper so no longer using scales.

 

Also, I'd need to know; you're wanting to taper by 5 %.

But in what time frame?

Like 5% every two weeks or so?

[[We...]]

Can someone on this thread please help me set up a daily micro taper plan?

Maybe I'll have better luck on this thread. I am severely kindled and had to attempt to reinstate after six months because of suicidal akathisia.

 

Anyway I have been back on for a couple months I reinstated to 6mg of ativan and I never really stabilize although it did make me more functional I ended up on methadone also and it turns out that for some reason the methadone is causing me to be toxic and I have to taper off of it I'm tapering off it at 3mg a week and it's going to be he'llbut that's besides the point

 

I am in tolerance withdrawal or something cuz I'm having all my withdrawal symptoms from my previous ct withdrawal s but I'm currently on 6mg of ativan it's very scary they come in waves and I was having very good Windows but I think it was because of the methadone and it turned on me or my body is not expelling the methadone or matabalizing it correctly but again that's besides the point it is making me very sick and I m tapering off of it

 

And my other doctor whom I finally found with much difficulty knows nothing about benzos withdrawal ex rot it's dangerous and she has agreed to help me temporarily till me can find a psychiatrist to take over but I need to present a taper schedule to her.

I have a Gemini gram scale coming on Monday

 

I take 2mg of ativan 3x a day. I need help setting up a daily micro taper I don't understand how to do the math on this. How much do you shave of of each dose per day I am not clear on any of this I need someone to explain the whole process from beginning to end like a baby cuz I'm very frazzled. And in pretty bad tolerance withdrawal.

 

Hopefully some stuff will get better as I start getting down on the medication I doubt it but one can hope

 

So will someone please help me set up and understanding how to do this. I need to present it to my doctor so that she can be comfortable with this. Because she's already freaked out that I'm on such a high dose and is scared about losing her licence for prescribing such a high dose for no reason besides dependency. I haven't even tried to explain about tolerance withdrawal or that I'm very mentally and physically Ill because of fear that she will think I'm pill seeking.

 

Anyway so let's get this started so I can put it on paper 2mg 3x a day. How do I do a daily micro taper off of this using a scale. Thank you so much I really hope somebody can help me with this

 

Hiphop, I've replied to the ativan Thread too.

 

Okay, so you're going to use a scale.

That means you will be going to use a gram scale. And your Ativan is in MGR.

So what needs to happen is you'll be cutting from the WEIGHT of the pill and not by mgr.

 

Does that make sense?

 

When do you need a schedule ?

 

My husband used to do the math for me. I couldn't comprehend anything at the time.

( I switched to Valium liquid taper so no longer using scales.

 

Also, I'd need to know; you're wanting to taper by 5 %.

But in what time frame?

Like 5% every two weeks or so?

 

Oh Moodle, you are so sweet. I was going to chime in and try to help, but I'm so new and he's better off listening to one of you.

 

You're in good hands here Hipop. Lots of people well into their microtapers, that can help you get a schedule set up. I know the symptoms seems so scary, but hang in there. I think microtapers are the best way to go and people seem to have less problems with them. You can do this! Once you get on a good taper schedule, things will be ok. hang in there. you will heal from this!

 

Shannon

[[sh...]]

HipHop,

 

I responded to you with specifics on the post below.  Because of your situation and because you have to present to the doctor.  Im going to recommend a traditional Ashton taper, at least until you get to a lower dose.  I would follow the plan that Challis did for you.  Please see what I posted at:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=vomene7ufbct6hv0gt85qs5qv1&topic=135835.20

 

If you want further information,  please respond with questions.  I see a lot of people posting on your threads but you don't respond to their questions.  Help us help you.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

Microtaper question:

 

Ok, So sharky made me an initial 14 day microtaper schedule, where I'd be tapering 0.0025mg a day, or 0.25 ml of solution daily.

 

for those who have liquid micortapered, will I maintain this 0.0025mg/ 0.25ml decrease the whole way through. OR as my dose gets smaller, will I need to decrease the size of my liquid cuts because they would need to be a smaller % of the total dose?

 

and a 1ml syringe seems ok to measure .25ml variations, but if has anyone used a .5ml syringe for smaller cuts?

 

Thanks in advance for any info

 

Shannon

 

Hey Shannon

 

From everything I've read on micro-tapering, most notably Diaza-Pam (not sure if she's posted in this thread at all), %'s aren't as big a deal when it comes to daily cutting, or at least, it's not something that needs to be obsessed about as much... because of the gentler impact each little cut has on you.

 

It's more of a, try a taper rate... keep cutting and if things start to creep up on you and you feel a bad shift coming... take a few days break and let it pass... and then proceed/adjust as necessary... that's why it's such a big appeal for me over the cut/holds... don't have to worry about cutting too large a % at once and then having to suffer through 2-3 weeks of symptoms, not knowing when it's going to let up.

 

PS: The more you can get your syringe to measure in smaller increments, the better, imo.. Nothing wrong with being sure it's more accurate/precise.

 

Ok thx for the input, dan. I guess it really is all individual isn't it. im so glad I have you guys to bounce this stuff off of.

 

Shannon,

 

I agree with Dan on this.  The .0025mg rate I gave you is simply a starting point.  You need to judge an increase or decrease in this rate based on how you feel.  If you think you can go a little faster you can slowing increase.  When you get to a lower dose, if you feel you need to slow down, you can decrease the cut rate.  If you are comfortable with this rate, just use it all the way to 0.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

Seriously, this thread is awesome! Please, everybody, no hard feelings... it's great to read all of these bits of information... it helps all of us who are having a hard time make sense of everything and put together a well thought out, well informed plan!

 

My take on it? It would seem that using liquid benzo would be ideal when titrating/daily cutting... and me thinks that's exactly what I'm going to give another shot.

 

I'll be at 6mg very shortly... 3 little 2mg Valium pills ... and then I have Roxane Liquid Valium. Will take 5mg in pills and 1mg in liquid and cut from the liquid portion. I tried this before and it was a failure... I'm not sure why... but I'll be planning on getting on the liquid valium and staying on both for a week before I cut anything.

 

It shouldn't matter if it's liquid or not... that's the part I don't get and why I don't understand why some people don't handle liquid or feel it's a cut. :/

 

Speaking about getting out and taking our minds off this... anyone get out and see Jurassic World yet? LOL... I don't think that'd be too much for our fragile lil CNS's.

 

Dan,

 

Welcome to the group!  Glad to have you knowledge and experience here.  Congratz on your progress!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

Hello Everyone!

 

Ultra, you down to 2.68mg, that is awesome.  Seems like yesterday we was hashing out how to start titrating.  What are you reducing per day?  And smooth so far?

 

I reached a new milestone today,  down to 25% on my titration schedule so im 3/4 of the way there.  Feeling good today!  Hope everyone has a great one!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

Hey Sharkey! Yep, things are slow but good. I'm reducing .01/day. Easier to do when at such a high dosage to begin with, I guess. Thanks for asking!

 

What does "down to 25% on my titration schedule..." mean? Sorry. Still learning.

 

Have a super day, everyone!!!

 

Hey Ultra!

 

Down to 25% for me simply means from 100% to 25%.  So I started titration at .25mg Clonazepam(100%).  75 days later (or so) I am at .0625mg Clonazepam (25%).

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

I'm not going to be any help,  but wanted to add that I thought I was going to do a micro-taper,  but today I found a compound pharmacy. Sounds like they'll be able to mix my liquid titration.  I meet with my psychiatrist next week, and go from there.

 

Good luck.

 

??

 

You can do a microtaper with compounded meds.

[[Be...]]

Hey everyone I am just checking in. I had a pretty good weekend and seem to be stable right now at 40MG Equivalent. That is 1MG k , 15mg V and 10mg ambien. I am going to hold this for a week or 2 then drop 10%. I am trying to get down as low as I can before I start the Micro taper. So far it is not too bad but I know the road ahead may be tough. I am still happy to be down 5mg.s so I am counting that as a win.

 

Thanks to everyone for your support.

[[en...]]

Talked to the pharmacist and he can do the liquid titration for me. I did ask about dry cut, but he said suspension is by far more accurate. Now, if my psychiatrist will be on the same playing field.

 

Hope every one is having a better day today than yesterday.

[[bu...]]

Talked to the pharmacist and he can do the liquid titration for me. I did ask about dry cut, but he said suspension is by far more accurate. Now, if my psychiatrist will be on the same playing field.

 

Hope every one is having a better day today than yesterday.

  ...and if you get your pdoc on board, Rx liquid K is even more accurate.  And its a true solution, not a suspension.

[[We...]]

 

  ...and if you get your pdoc on board, Rx liquid K is even more accurate.  And its a true solution, not a suspension.

 

Do you work for Roxane, Builder? hehe/jk

[[bu...]]

 

  ...and if you get your pdoc on board, Rx liquid K is even more accurate.  And its a true solution, not a suspension.

 

Do you work for Roxane, Builder? hehe/jk

 

I feel absolutely certain that:

 

1)  Daily (micro) tapers are better than cut-and-hold

 

2)  Liquid tapers are much easier/more controllable than dry-cut/scale type tapers

 

3)  Rx liquid is the best choice for a liquid taper.

 

Any questions?  ;)

[[We...]]

 

  ...and if you get your pdoc on board, Rx liquid K is even more accurate.  And its a true solution, not a suspension.

 

Do you work for Roxane, Builder? hehe/jk

 

I feel absolutely certain that:

 

1)  Daily (micro) tapers are better than cut-and-hold

 

2)  Liquid tapers are much easier/more controllable than dry-cut/scale type tapers

 

3)  Rx liquid is the best choice for a liquid taper.

 

Any questions?  ;)

 

From all the reading I've done on this site, I'd have to agree. I wish I could get a hold of Rx liquid benzos. but the homemade recipe will do me just fine, fingers crossed

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

From all the reading I've done on this site, I'd have to agree. I wish I could get a hold of Rx liquid benzos. but the homemade recipe will do me just fine, fingers crossed

  All of the common methods of liquifying your med should work just fine.  That includes milk, vodka, OraPlus, and  pharmacy-prepared suspensions.  I am skeptical about water, but some folks have even had success with that.

 

But Rx grade are reliably consistant, are actual solutions, stable, have long shelf-life, can be stored at room temp, etc.  They're great, if your doc will give you a scrip.

[[We...]]

 

 

 

 

From all the reading I've done on this site, I'd have to agree. I wish I could get a hold of Rx liquid benzos. but the homemade recipe will do me just fine, fingers crossed

  All of the common methods of liquifying your med should work just fine.  That includes milk, vodka, OraPlus, and  pharmacy-prepared suspensions.  I am skeptical about water, but some folks have even had success with that.

 

But Rx grade are reliably consistant, are actual solutions, stable, have long shelf-life, can be stored at room temp, etc.  They're great, if your doc will give you a scrip.

 

Can the vodka solutions be stored at room temp, Builder? I know Vodka itself can, but wondered if somehow mixing in the pills, it needed to be refrigerated to work.

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

From all the reading I've done on this site, I'd have to agree. I wish I could get a hold of Rx liquid benzos. but the homemade recipe will do me just fine, fingers crossed

  All of the common methods of liquifying your med should work just fine.  That includes milk, vodka, OraPlus, and  pharmacy-prepared suspensions.  I am skeptical about water, but some folks have even had success with that.

 

But Rx grade are reliably consistant, are actual solutions, stable, have long shelf-life, can be stored at room temp, etc.  They're great, if your doc will give you a scrip.

 

Can the vodka solutions be stored at room temp, Builder? I know Vodka itself can, but wondered if somehow mixing in the pills, it needed to be refrigerated to work.

  You do not need to refrigerate vodka/benzo solutions.

[[We...]]

 

 

 

 

From all the reading I've done on this site, I'd have to agree. I wish I could get a hold of Rx liquid benzos. but the homemade recipe will do me just fine, fingers crossed

  All of the common methods of liquifying your med should work just fine.  That includes milk, vodka, OraPlus, and  pharmacy-prepared suspensions.  I am skeptical about water, but some folks have even had success with that.

 

But Rx grade are reliably consistant, are actual solutions, stable, have long shelf-life, can be stored at room temp, etc.  They're great, if your doc will give you a scrip.

 

Can the vodka solutions be stored at room temp, Builder? I know Vodka itself can, but wondered if somehow mixing in the pills, it needed to be refrigerated to work.

  You do not need to refrigerate vodka/benzo solutions.

 

K, thanks