Valium/Diazepam Support Group

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It will peak at about 8X daily dose.  And of course, that will vary some based on individual metabolism.

 

And when you taper, since your daily dose is dropping, the actual level represented by that 8X is also declining.

 

For example, if your daily dose is 5mg, then your accumulated amount might be 40mg.  But when you have tapered down to 1mg, then your accumulated amount will be approx 8mg.  The closer you get to zero, the lower the accumulated level will be.  And once you jump, your body will still gradually release the remainder.

 

Thanks Builder.....I notice with me WDs from V start about 10-14 days from a microtaper beginning and then they keep on building for a couple of months , actually getting worse before they get better . It takes me a very long time to recover at the moment from any kind of small cut . See my sig.... I tried in June and things have gotten worse through July and August .

I guess I hit my wall.....

I know you had an experience something like this at 9 mgs didn't you?

 

I'll keep trying but for now I'm holding while,the worst of these WDs pass, then I'll try again.

 

By the way , did you at any point feel like V made you feel worse during that time when you 'hit your wall'. It's definitely making me feel worse when I take it at the moment . Nauseous and tired .....

 

MiYu

[[ne...]]

So, Builder, won't that mean you are essentially reinstating a high dose of benzo in your brain? Isn't that kindling?

Thanks so much for replying!

[[bu...]]

So, Builder, won't that mean you are essentially reinstating a high dose of benzo in your brain? Isn't that kindling?

Thanks so much for replying!

 

Not at all.  From my post above:

 

The closer you get to zero, the lower the accumulated level will be.  And once you jump, your body will still gradually release the remainder.

 

As your daily dose declines, so does the stored benzo.  So when you jump, your body is still releasing the accumulated benzo, and it "self-tapers".  There is never an increase in your benzo level, it just gradually declines, all during your taper, and then for several more days after you stop.

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Thanks  for explaining that makes great sense, what I don't understand is why some of us get worse the lower we go.  Since I hit 2.0mg the fatigue is treacherous especially the first 10 - 12 hours after I dose. Completely inebriated, lethargic and sleepy. My body is almost flaccid.  For instance I only dose once at bedtime, a few hours later using my arms to pull the sheet over is a chore as my arms feel heavy and ache.  In the morning that feeling is gone.  If there's less in us why do some folks feel worse? Thx

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Bump

[[Ki...]]

Just throwing this out there for general interest. My pharmacy changed my generic V to a brand I did not do well on (mylan) with another drug ( beta blocker). I asked them to change to my old brand which they did not carry. I snooped around on some " druggy" type boards and saw the general consensus was Watson and Ivax mentioned as being excellent so I asked for one of those and they did have Ivax. Now is it all in my head? I dont know but since switching brands I feel a little more stable through the day. Almost like it releases or metabolizes more evenly. Could be placebo, but for all the worrying I did about switching, it turned out to be a good thing. Unless its just stronger!  >:

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Thanks  for explaining that makes great sense, what I don't understand is why some of us get worse the lower we go.  Since I hit 2.0mg the fatigue is treacherous especially the first 10 - 12 hours after I dose. Completely inebriated, lethargic and sleepy. My body is almost flaccid.  For instance I only dose once at bedtime, a few hours later using my arms to pull the sheet over is a chore as my arms feel heavy and ache.  In the morning that feeling is gone.  If there's less in us why do some folks feel worse? Thx

 

Mena, I'm glad I saw your post ..... I've been trying to taper for a year now , Valium and it's been brutal. I've done long holds , and in June I cut a mere 1/16 th mg , WDs hit me SO hard in both july and now through August . But the worst thing is , the last few weeks I can barely move after I take my V doses.... I have been taking it 3 X day as I'm a fast metabolizer , but ive never experienced anything like this before ! Even when I was on my full dose of 10 mg I didn't get this kind of fatigue at all.

Now, if I take 1/2 mg in the morning I'm out for hours , same at lunch . So I've moved most of my dose to evening as I can't function at all like this . It makes no sense to me and it's not letting up . I literally , like you ,feel comatose after 1/2 mg for hours .

 

So confusing. Maybe our brains/ bodies are just somehow trying to adapt and this is how its manifesting for now . Keep me posted if things change for you . I'm just holding as I'm also having all,kinds of horrible WDs at the same time ! It's crazy .

 

MiYu

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Just throwing this out there for general interest. My pharmacy changed my generic V to a brand I did not do well on (mylan) with another drug ( beta blocker). I asked them to change to my old brand which they did not carry. I snooped around on some " druggy" type boards and saw the general consensus was Watson and Ivax mentioned as being excellent so I asked for one of those and they did have Ivax. Now is it all in my head? I dont know but since switching brands I feel a little more stable through the day. Almost like it releases or metabolizes more evenly. Could be placebo, but for all the worrying I did about switching, it turned out to be a good thing. Unless its just stronger!  >:

I don't know Kitty , but it sounds like a good thing! I read many people having issues with generic brand changes . I started out on Mylan , they've switched mine twice , once it activas and now Mayn..... I have no idea how I've been effected as I've put everything Down to WDs.....

The last few scripts have all been Mayn tho , and they apparantly used to be owned by Teva , but were sold to an Australian company , I think Mayn is also US made now ......

 

All very confusing but I'm glad you feel better .....

See my other post here .... I'm having to move most of my dose to evening as I'm so sedated all of a sudden! Maybe all us fast metabolizers are having a change altogether ? 

 

MiYu

[[Le...]]

Just throwing this out there for general interest. My pharmacy changed my generic V to a brand I did not do well on (mylan) with another drug ( beta blocker). I asked them to change to my old brand which they did not carry. I snooped around on some " druggy" type boards and saw the general consensus was Watson and Ivax mentioned as being excellent so I asked for one of those and they did have Ivax. Now is it all in my head? I dont know but since switching brands I feel a little more stable through the day. Almost like it releases or metabolizes more evenly. Could be placebo, but for all the worrying I did about switching, it turned out to be a good thing. Unless its just stronger!  >:

It's not in your head Kitty. Mylan was awful for me once I started tapering. Barely kept me out of CT status, almost like a sugar pill. I too checked the "druggy" boards (lol) and Watson (now Mayn) and Ivax were consistently the preferred generics. Maybe their formulations are closer in potency to the original brand Valium... or maybe it's the way we metabolize the drug. Either way I'm glad you feel better on Ivax.

[[Le...]]

Just throwing this out there for general interest. My pharmacy changed my generic V to a brand I did not do well on (mylan) with another drug ( beta blocker). I asked them to change to my old brand which they did not carry. I snooped around on some " druggy" type boards and saw the general consensus was Watson and Ivax mentioned as being excellent so I asked for one of those and they did have Ivax. Now is it all in my head? I dont know but since switching brands I feel a little more stable through the day. Almost like it releases or metabolizes more evenly. Could be placebo, but for all the worrying I did about switching, it turned out to be a good thing. Unless its just stronger!  >:

I don't know Kitty , but it sounds like a good thing! I read many people having issues with generic brand changes . I started out on Mylan , they've switched mine twice , once it activas and now Mayn..... I have no idea how I've been effected as I've put everything Down to WDs.....

The last few scripts have all been Mayn tho , and they apparantly used to be owned by Teva , but were sold to an Australian company , I think Mayn is also US made now ......

 

All very confusing but I'm glad you feel better .....

See my other post here .... I'm having to move most of my dose to evening as I'm so sedated all of a sudden! Maybe all us fast metabolizers are having a change altogether ? 

MiYu

Miyu, Activas and Mayn are the same generic formulation of V. Watson used to manufacture and distribute their own generic (white 2mg pill says DAN 5621). They later sold the distribution rights to Activas, who later sold the distribution rights to Mayn...but it's still manufactured by Watson. Hope this makes sense...

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Miyu, thank you for responding.  Worst thing I ever did was switch to Valium. I'll keep you posted.

[[...]]

Just throwing this out there for general interest. My pharmacy changed my generic V to a brand I did not do well on (mylan) with another drug ( beta blocker). I asked them to change to my old brand which they did not carry. I snooped around on some " druggy" type boards and saw the general consensus was Watson and Ivax mentioned as being excellent so I asked for one of those and they did have Ivax. Now is it all in my head? I dont know but since switching brands I feel a little more stable through the day. Almost like it releases or metabolizes more evenly. Could be placebo, but for all the worrying I did about switching, it turned out to be a good thing. Unless its just stronger!  >:

I don't know Kitty , but it sounds like a good thing! I read many people having issues with generic brand changes . I started out on Mylan , they've switched mine twice , once it activas and now Mayn..... I have no idea how I've been effected as I've put everything Down to WDs.....

The last few scripts have all been Mayn tho , and they apparantly used to be owned by Teva , but were sold to an Australian company , I think Mayn is also US made now ......

 

All very confusing but I'm glad you feel better .....

See my other post here .... I'm having to move most of my dose to evening as I'm so sedated all of a sudden! Maybe all us fast metabolizers are having a change altogether ? 

MiYu

Miyu, Activas and Mayn are the same generic formulation of V. Watson used to manufacture and distribute their own generic (white 2mg pill says DAN 5621). They later sold the distribution rights to Activas, who later sold the distribution rights to Mayn...but it's still manufactured by Watson. Hope this makes sense...

 

Yes , thank you for that Left......good to know ,

MiYu

[[Ki...]]

So sorry to hear about all the troubles in valium land. Its supposed to make things so much easier- and for many it does but it has to really be frustrating to be stuck in a bad taper. You just have to decide whether to sit it out, or change to something else and with no answers its really a tough call. Mine is pretty even keeled but it was really bad for many months so Im hoping this continues on. And the daytime sedation I remember that. Found the smallest dose I could take and hold down symptoms was to split 1/10 of my dose off and divide that into 3 then take the remainder at night. I had been taking a whole mg 3x day with remainder at bedtime and that really walloped me. The grapefruit juice makes it much easier- I am sure hoping its making me kinda close to a " normal" metabolizer and not just adding fuel to the fire for later...

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So sorry to hear about all the troubles in valium land. Its supposed to make things so much easier- and for many it does but it has to really be frustrating to be stuck in a bad taper. You just have to decide whether to sit it out, or change to something else and with no answers its really a tough call. Mine is pretty even keeled but it was really bad for many months so Im hoping this continues on. And the daytime sedation I remember that. Found the smallest dose I could take and hold down symptoms was to split 1/10 of my dose off and divide that into 3 then take the remainder at night. I had been taking a whole mg 3x day with remainder at bedtime and that really walloped me. The grapefruit juice makes it much easier- I am sure hoping its making me kinda close to a " normal" metabolizer and not just adding fuel to the fire for later...

 

I think as long as you go really slow towards the end you'll be fine kitty ...

 

When you had a rough time early on , do you think it was the metabolizing?

This didn't used to happen to me . It's unbearable now , i feel sick and sedated with every 1/2 mg , it's totally crazy . I don't knwo what to do , or why it's changed since I made that small cut in June .

I feel so much worse now .

I went to our local small cooperative store today and you pick out what you want and put the money in an envelope . I couldn't figure out how to pay $16.66 with a $20 bill and I just sat there and cried as I couldn't for the life of me get my brain to function .

 

Should I cut ? Should I hold and hope thing shift .... I don't knwo how to go on like this ,Afraid I'll make things worse if I cut ( the last two months have been so bad ) , or if I hold , will that make things worse or I'll just be Ina holding pattern . My nervous system is so fragile too , another reason I'm afraid to cut....

Everything went south after that 1/16 th cut ... I was slowly improving before that and now I just seem to be getting worse by the day ....

So infuriating not knowing what will happen with any decision we make ...

I tried the grapefruit juice , a teaspoon. Not sure it made any difference .

Once you started the grapefruit did you take your whole dose at night? Didn't that wallop you too?

 

I wonder if something like B 12 speeds up metabolism . I don't take it every day , just occasionally .

So so confusing . I want to get on with my taper but I'm a wreck!

MiYu

[[Al...]]

Miyu,

 

I think we have to just keep going forward and yes, even knowing that we are going to have some very very uncomfortable days or weeks but also knowing that better days will follow.

 

Remember that famous quote seen here often,.. "if you think you can or if you think you can't you are right"

 

We have to remain focussed and strong and even get comfortable with our discomfort and as the days and months pass and our dose gets smaller and smaller we get closer to the Finnish line.

Speed I think is not as important as our attitude to this process.

 

We have to climb out of this pit we have dug for ourselves and we will. 

 

Hugs:

 

ATU 🙏🏻

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Miyu,

 

I think we have to just keep going forward and yes, even knowing that we are going to have some very very uncomfortable days or weeks but also knowing that better days will follow.

 

Remember that famous quote seen here often,.. "if you think you can or if you think you can't you are right"

 

We have to remain focussed and strong and even get comfortable with our discomfort and as the days and months pass and our dose gets smaller and smaller we get closer to the Finnish line.

Speed I think is not as important as our attitude to this process.

 

We have to climb out of this pit we have dug for ourselves and we will. 

 

Hugs:

 

ATU 🙏🏻

 

Thank you ATU for your kind words. I don't feel very strong right now , wanting the suffering to end . And now scared of the Valium as its making me feel so bad . I guess I don't know how to move forwards .

I do know one day this will end and we will be well again.,if it was just a matter of speed , or going slow , I think I could manage .  It's just been so long since I've been able to make a 'move', without being completely slammed , and now I'm scared as to how to find my way through.

 

I had some painful dental work done this last week and so have had that added to everything . I guess I'm feeling rather defeated .

 

I have to find a way to be with this that I can sustain throughout my taper , however that looks , or feels. Still struggling with that and the fear that this is going to get the better of me.

 

One day at a time ...... I hope I can find the strength to be with my choices and accept .

 

Thank you again ,  I appreciate your words , and need the encouragement

 

MiYu

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Miyu I am so sorry for your hard times!

To answer your question it took a lot of trial and error and it still changes but I usually take about 2 to 3 oz grapefruit each night about an hour before my bedtime dose. That seems to be about right. I notice when I miss it ine night its no different but if I miss it 2 nights I start getting the symptoms around dinnertime and have to take a little of it early. I am not worried about taking too much as I can tell when I do, I stay groggy in the daytime, so I lay off it a few days. It just took doing it for a while to figure it out- I wasnt afraid of it as the whole idea of it was to metabolize more like the drug is supposed to do and I definitely was not metabolizing right. I knew that even before I got the DNA test back! I hope you get some kind of relief soon, you have been through so much!

[[Se...]]

I posted this post on the withdrawal support board also, but am wondering if any of you have experience with switching to Valium at the end of your taper rather than the beginning.  Sorry for being repetitive.  Just a bit desperate at the moment, and looking at different options.   

 

I am currently on 0.15 mg of Ativan taken three times a day.  I have hit a wall, and have crashed hard. I am unsure as to what my next step should be.  I am starting to suffer from inter-dose withdrawals now, and withdrawals themselves have become unbearable.  I haven't reduced my dose for just over two weeks now, and am hoping things improve as I am extremely unstable.  Micro-tapering hasn't worked out all that great for me, and my reductions now are small.  I was decreasing by 0.01mg per week, but am extremely sensitive to each cut.  Even the smallest cut feels extreme.  Going back up is unfortunately not an option for me as my Doctor will not approve.  I haven't been able to tolerate Valium in the past as it causes my heart to race, and induces panic attacks.  Being that I am on a fairly low dose that I might be able to tolerate it at this level.  Has anyone had a similar situation where they weren't able to tolerate Valium at a higher dose, but were successful at switching at a lower dose?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

[[Le...]]

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time Seekinghope. I started on Valium so didn't need to do a crossover. That is weird about the Valium, but nothing about these pills surprises me anymore. I wish I could give you some kind of advice, but I honestly don't know what the best answer for you is.

 

You may have more luck posting to the Substitution Taper Plans Board.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=61.0

 

Or maybe someone else will come along here who can provide you more support. This is a crazy painful process.

 

Healing thoughts and hugs, Left

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I posted this post on the withdrawal support board also, but am wondering if any of you have experience with switching to Valium at the end of your taper rather than the beginning.  Sorry for being repetitive.  Just a bit desperate at the moment, and looking at different options.   

 

I am currently on 0.15 mg of Ativan taken three times a day.  I have hit a wall, and have crashed hard. I am unsure as to what my next step should be.  I am starting to suffer from inter-dose withdrawals now, and withdrawals themselves have become unbearable.  I haven't reduced my dose for just over two weeks now, and am hoping things improve as I am extremely unstable.  Micro-tapering hasn't worked out all that great for me, and my reductions now are small.  I was decreasing by 0.01mg per week, but am extremely sensitive to each cut.  Even the smallest cut feels extreme.  Going back up is unfortunately not an option for me as my Doctor will not approve.  I haven't been able to tolerate Valium in the past as it causes my heart to race, and induces panic attacks.  Being that I am on a fairly low dose that I might be able to tolerate it at this level.  Has anyone had a similar situation where they weren't able to tolerate Valium at a higher dose, but were successful at switching at a lower dose?  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

 

I'm sorry things are hard Seeking..... I'm in a similar situation with my Valium . I cut a tiny amount in June and haven't been stable since ... I seem to be getting worse in fact and now the Valium is sedating me like it never has before ... So crazy and confusing .

I can't really answer your question , but you could also try posting in the Valium support group?

 

Also Valleyum buddie had a paradoxical reaction to Valium that I believe has changed as he tapered it ... And he is having a smooth taper now .... There's just no way to knwo what's going to happen with these pills as Left said .... 

Good luck, 

MiYu

[[Ki...]]

Seeking, many people cant taper quickly. Im not sure what your valium equivalency is but I can only cut .001 every 3 or 4 days, any more than that and Im a loose cannon full of nerves and pain. As we get lower we have to go slower- most of us anyway. The IDWD might be a reason to cross to valium, or some folks have crossed over partially to help with IDWD, like half and half so they dont have to lose sp much time crossing over. Just some thoughts- Im hoping you find an answer!

[[Pa...]]

Hi All,

 

I crossed over from Ativan to Valium back in February. I had to get off of Ativan as it just wasn't helping and actually make me feel worse. When I first went on Valium I cut from 5mg to 1.5mg pretty quickly. I thought I couldn't tolerate the SFXS so I went back up to 6mg but I tried 8 and 12 and honestly I never got relief. I switched from Cipralex to Zoloft 4 months ago with the hope that the Zoloft would help me and I could get off of the Valium. I got a little better but I struggled very day. The Zoloft has helped my depression but the anxiety remained a problem. I noticed when I took the Valium my mood was worse and I still had anxiety. I was down to 4mg for a few weeks and decided to C/T last week. I started using Gabapentin to help with the SFXS. I'm now on my 2nd week. The 1st week was pretty good. I would have my morning anxiety but by early afternoon I felt much better. My mood was better and I actually enjoyed many of the days. This is rare. 3 days ago was the start of the 2nd week. This was Tuesday after labor day and back to work which stresses me out. My morning anxiety did get worse but several hours after taking 200mg of Gabapentin, my anxiety goes down by at least 90% and many of my SFXS disappear or are reduced. Yes, I feel like crap for 2 to 3 hours in the morning but at least I start feeling better which I wasn't getting from Valium at any dose.

 

Everyone is different but I think the SFXS I'm experiencing so far are less painful than what I was getting on Valium. With that said, it's would certainly be nice to get some reassurance today that it will pass and I will heal.

[[Se...]]

Thank you all for your input.  I made the switch to Diazepam last Monday, and it isn't going too bad.  The first day and a half were rough, but seem to be doing better on it than I was on the Ativan.  I absolutely crashed when I dropped to 0.15 mg of Ativan, and wasn't getting any better, and the inter-dose withdrawals were killing me.  I have been tolerating Diazepam relatively well so far.  I was so nervous as it always induced panic attacks in the past.  It does increase my hear rate ab out 20-30 minutes after, but other than that, it's been so much better.  I'm hoping that the cuts are a bit easier on me than the Ativan was.  How long do you all usually feel a cut from Diazepam?  Thank you all so much for your support.   

[[Va...]]

Thank you all for your input.  I made the switch to Diazepam last Monday, and it isn't going too bad.  The first day and a half were rough, but seem to be doing better on it than I was on the Ativan.  I absolutely crashed when I dropped to 0.15 mg of Ativan, and wasn't getting any better, and the inter-dose withdrawals were killing me.  I have been tolerating Diazepam relatively well so far.  I was so nervous as it always induced panic attacks in the past.  It does increase my hear rate ab out 20-30 minutes after, but other than that, it's been so much better.  I'm hoping that the cuts are a bit easier on me than the Ativan was.  How long do you all usually feel a cut from Diazepam?  Thank you all so much for your support. 

Days three and 10 when I did cut and hold.  Just a minimal amount of background sxs on DMLT.  --V

[[ed...]]

Thank you all for your input.  I made the switch to Diazepam last Monday, and it isn't going too bad.  The first day and a half were rough, but seem to be doing better on it than I was on the Ativan.  I absolutely crashed when I dropped to 0.15 mg of Ativan, and wasn't getting any better, and the inter-dose withdrawals were killing me.  I have been tolerating Diazepam relatively well so far.  I was so nervous as it always induced panic attacks in the past.  It does increase my hear rate ab out 20-30 minutes after, but other than that, it's been so much better.  I'm hoping that the cuts are a bit easier on me than the Ativan was.  How long do you all usually feel a cut from Diazepam?  Thank you all so much for your support. 

Days three and 10 when I did cut and hold.  Just a minimal amount of background sxs on DMLT.  --V

 

Days 4 and 10 were nasty back when I did C/H.