The Klonopin Klub#2

[[Fi...]]

Does anyone have experience tapering after 20 plus years on Klonopin?  Very distressed about this.

Thanks!

 

Does anyone have experience tapering after 20 plus years on Klonopin?  Very distressed about this.

Thanks!

 

Hi Lookinup,

 

Welcome to Klonipin Klub2.    It is understandable to feel fear about tapering but it you create a proper taper, and go slowly, you will have a good chance of success.  If you read through some of the success stories, you will see that there are many people who got off benzos after long term use.

 

As suggested by others here, if you go to the home page and look at the different ways of tapering, your will find guidance. 

 

Once you decide in how you want to taper, you can post at request for help in creating a solid paper plan that works for your. 

 

You can do this by posting for help on general wirhdrawal support.  There are lots of resources on this site. 

 

Take it step by step and day by day.  Ask for help and support as you go along.  Do not let any doctor or practitioner rush you off oof your medication.  Many doctors do not understand the time needed for a safe taper. 

 

Glad you are here. 

 

Final Healing

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest [Lo...]]

Thanks everyone.  Really appreciate the support!

[[Th...]]

Hey everyone I have a question regarding daily dry microtaper. Someone explained the math for the percentages. The question I have is regarding the different pill weights. I was weighing some pills of K and found a difference in weight from .163 to .168 for my .5mg pills. I want to try a conservative reduction of .001 per day. The issue I have is that I also take a quarter tablet (cut by eye) that I want to get rid of first. So the question is, should I just cocentrate on the reduction of the quarter tablet first and accept the variance of the .5mg tablet?

[[Br...]]

Hey everyone I have a question regarding daily dry microtaper. Someone explained the math for the percentages. The question I have is regarding the different pill weights. I was weighing some pills of K and found a difference in weight from .163 to .168 for my .5mg pills. I want to try a conservative reduction of .001 per day. The issue I have is that I also take a quarter tablet (cut by eye) that I want to get rid of first. So the question is, should I just cocentrate on the reduction of the quarter tablet first and accept the variance of the .5mg tablet?

 

greek,  the variance in K pill weights is normal (all tabs).  It's impossible for manufacturers to churn out millions of pills and each one be totally exact.  Over time I learned to ignored the variance and cut.  Below .5 mg K I may move to liquid for exact measurements.

[[NJ...]]

Hey everyone I have a question regarding daily dry microtaper. Someone explained the math for the percentages. The question I have is regarding the different pill weights. I was weighing some pills of K and found a difference in weight from .163 to .168 for my .5mg pills. I want to try a conservative reduction of .001 per day. The issue I have is that I also take a quarter tablet (cut by eye) that I want to get rid of first. So the question is, should I just cocentrate on the reduction of the quarter tablet first and accept the variance of the .5mg tablet?

 

greek,  the variance in K pill weights is normal (all tabs).  It's impossible for manufacturers to churn out millions of pills and each one be totally exact.  Over time I learned to ignored the variance and cut.  Below .5 mg K I may move to liquid for exact measurements.

 

Actually I find that the brand name K the pills pretty much all weigh the same. But I was using the old tevas and yes, the pill weight was all over the place but I tried not to stress about it.

[[Th...]]

Thanks! I’m just really nervous to resume taper and didn’t want to cut too much too fast.

[[...]]

Hello. I'm new here. Just trying to find some stability. Then eventually taper down real slowly.

 

I read somewhere someone mentioned Teva stopped making Clonazepam? I'm thinking it was an unlucky coincidence with when I slid off the rails.

I noticed the maker changed.

 

I've seen suggestion to switch from Clonazepam to Diazepam but it seems like more work to find stability on another med.

 

I'm pretty handy with a scale and lab tools. All of my 2mg pills seem to weigh 0.168g except for 1 that was .171. I weighed

it like a half dozen times. :shrug:

 

I've never dissolved a pill in water. I'm guessing it has a reasonably high solubility from what I read.

 

I moved from 4mg to 3mg some time back. I'm not sure I'm stable here. That or depression just gets the better of me at night

and makes me anxious. All my old triggers are back from my early 20s which is disturbing. Driving long distances, parties, etc.

I found all of that out the hard way. Now I'll take a mg an hour before and I feel right as rain. But I hate being chained to a drug.

 

Ryan

[[Li...]]

Greetings, fayt! Welcome to BenzoBuddies and the support group for Klonopin/clonazepam.

 

(1) Teva is still manufacturing clonazepam, but there have been some bumps along the way.  If you want to learn more, visit:

 

Teva Clonazepam Discontinued Group

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204645.msg2651124#msg2651124

 

If you are comfortable answering, it would be helpful to know if you are taking generic clonazepam or brand Klonopin.  If generic, from which manufacturer?

 

(2) We have members who have tapered successfully directly from clonazepam as well as members who have switched to diazepam.  If you would like input from members regarding the pros/cons of switching, you could post to the Substitution Taper Plans board.

 

(3) That’s great that you are handy with lab tools!  These skills will serve you well as you taper.  We have members who have tapered successfully using regular tablets and digital scales.  Are you considering shaving your tablets and weighing them or crushing them and weighing the powder?

 

(4) Clonazepam has very low solubility in water.  That’s why the “Water Titration” method that you may have read about on the Internet or seen in YouTube videos may not be an optimal choice for tapering. 

 

(5) None of us are experts here, just fellow travelers trying our best to support one another.  So I hope other members will add their thoughts to mine.

 

Mine are:  Given that (a) you’ve been at your current dose of 3mg a night since June 2019 and it’s now October (4 months) and (b) you are experiencing symptoms,  one possibility for you to consider (and discuss with your prescriber) is that you may have reached tolerance.  If so (and again you’d want to discuss this with your prescriber) two options to consider are: (1) increase your dose or (2) begin a symptom-guided taper. 

 

If you decide to taper, have you given any thought to what taper rate you want to try to begin?  What taper schedule?

 

Have you always dosed just one time a day, before bed?  We have members who have found that dosing multiple times during a day (e.g. twice a day, three times a day) is helpful while tapering.  However, having said that, we also have members who do fine with once-a-day dosing.  It all depends on how the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of clonazepam manifest in your particular body. 

 

I hope the above is of some help.  Again, welcome.  Libertas

 

Edit: corrected typos

[[Kg...]]

The Greek:

 

For a micro taper most of us just weighed 10 of our pills and took the average weight as the base weight that we used throughout our taper.  The discrepancy between the individual pills did not seem to matter.  For those of us who used a micro taper based on the gram weight of our pills we used the 20.00 scale you can buy at Amazon - the smallest cut you can make is .001 grams.  I am sorry that I cannot help you with the math.  To give you an example of what I did at 1.00 mg of klonopin my pill weight was .172 grams per .5 mg pill.    I never worried about %'s I just looked at my taper rate. I started doing .001 gram cuts every day- then I went to cutting 10 days out of 14 days and then 6-7 days out of 14 days towards the end.  As I recall most of us on the old KK board did our tapers using this method. Some people went faster, others went slower but we all managed to get off even though it seemed to take forever.  I dosed 2 x's a day and I tried to keep my pills even - so first I cut the night one (I always had less s/x at night) and then the morning one. 

 

I too believe that liquid is more accurate - I tried it but for some reason the liquid made me feel worse- I don't believe there is any rhyme or reason for this but given that we are all doing tapers based on how we feel you just need to use the method that you feel works for you.

 

I hope this helped and good luck.

 

NJ - I hope you (and your son)  are feeling better. I don't come on here very much anymore but saw your posts. 

[[Th...]]

Thanks!

[[Kl...]]

Welcome Fayt

 

I decided to stick with C instead of switching to digoxin and I feel like my taper was smooth.  I did learn, from Builder and from a

pharmacist that the pills, all brands, dissolve well using 2 ml of 80 proof vodka ((40%) per tablet.  I then added water to make a solution.  I

made 40 ml of solution and used a diabetic syringe to subtract a portion every day.  You can add any reasonable amount of water.  I feel like

each dose was very accurate using this method.

 

This is just one method, of course.  Hope this helps.

 

Klonkar 

[[...]]

Greetings, fayt! Welcome to BenzoBuddies and the support group for Klonopin/clonazepam.

 

(1) Teva is still manufacturing clonazepam, but there have been some bumps along the way.  If you want to learn more, visit:

 

Teva Clonazepam Discontinued Group

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=204645.msg2651124#msg2651124

 

If you are comfortable answering, it would be helpful to know if you are taking generic clonazepam or brand Klonopin.  If generic, from which manufacturer?

 

(2) We have members who have tapered successfully directly from clonazepam as well as members who have switched to diazepam.  If you would like input from members regarding the pros/cons of switching, you could post to the Substitution Taper Plans board.

 

(3) That’s great that you are handy with lab tools!  These skills will serve you well as you taper.  We have members who have tapered successfully using regular tablets and digital scales.  Are you considering shaving your tablets and weighing them or crushing them and weighing the powder?

 

(4) Clonazepam has very low solubility in water.  That’s why the “Water Titration” method that you may have read about on the Internet or seen in YouTube videos may not be an optimal choice for tapering. 

 

(5) None of us are experts here, just fellow travelers trying our best to support one another.  So I hope other members will add their thoughts to mine.

 

Mine are:  Given that (a) you’ve been at your current dose of 3mg a night since June 2019 and it’s now October (4 months) and (b) you are experiencing symptoms,  one possibility for you to consider (and discuss with your prescriber) is that you may have reached tolerance.  If so (and again you’d want to discuss this with your prescriber) two options to consider are: (1) increase your dose or (2) begin a symptom-guided taper. 

 

If you decide to taper, have you given any thought to what taper rate you want to try to begin?  What taper schedule?

 

Have you always dosed just one time a day, before bed?  We have members who have found that dosing multiple times during a day (e.g. twice a day, three times a day) is helpful while tapering.  However, having said that, we also have members who do fine with once-a-day dosing.  It all depends on how the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of clonazepam manifest in your particular body. 

 

I hope the above is of some help.  Again, welcome.  Libertas

 

Edit: corrected typos

 

1.Thanks, I had seen that group. I take generic. MFR is listed as Accord Healthcare

2. I think when I taper I can accurately take enough off a pill. I'd prefer not to use alcohol if I can avoid that. I guess 2ml is nothing though.

I'm assuming the Pro of diazepam is that it's easier to cut down. Is .5mg the smallest they make Clonazepam?

3. I hadn't figured which would be better yet. I have the tools for either.

4. I'm surprised at the low solubility. I had checked the chem manual on it and it seemed to be soluble. Perhaps I misread it.

5. I appreciate it.

 

I recently moved from 4mg to 3mg. I was taking 3mg at night and 1mg in the evening.

I cut that back by .5mg and after a week (roughly) again by .5mg. It seemed to be fine. I'm guessing that my anxiety is being

partially mediated by depression / sleep. If I'm fairly focused at night then I'm okay. If I haven't slept well, prepare for

more anxiety than normal.

 

My body was fine at 2mg. I took 3mg for a period of about 4 months when I first tried to quit smoking. I failed that largely because

a woman I was in love with broke up with me. I went back to smoking and 2mg at night. Previously I had taken 1mg/1mg/1mg instead

of the full 3mg at night I do now. It was easy last time. I just switched back. I'm not even sure I noticed the anxiety over the background

of losing that girl..

 

So moving from 3mg to 2mg wasn't bad the last time it occurred. This most recent spike in usage does seem so long that I can't

at least get it back to 2mg where my brain was "happy" for like 15 years.

 

I'm thinking that I can take 2mg at night and 1mg ~8 hours after waking up then slowly shave down the mid day dose. That won't make

sense to a lot of the protocols I've seen but allows me to maintain a large enough dose to sleep fine and I think the mid day dose will

handle the mid day to evening anxiety.

 

This evening anxiety is wrecking me. I have zero motivation to do much beyond try and watch a movie / show or play video games.

It just sort of ends up being more depressing to be honest.

 

RE: the final question you asked about dosing. Yes, I always dosed at night 2mg. I preferred it Vs. taking 1mg 3x a day that I mentioned

above. Taking the medication throughout the day I end up with dry mouth and once I ended up dizzy which was completely abnormal.

 

I guess it's also sort of less to think about? I would go months without taking anything supplemental. My normal supplemental doses were

for big parties and stuff. Plane flights. I supplemented a lot of my anxiety with going and having a cigarette. That'd be enough to get me

closer to baseline and if it wasn't feeling like it was I'd take .5mg-1mg depending on how I felt it out and hope it kicked in fast.

 

 

I was studying to be a PhD psychologist but ran off to run tech companies. So I left with 2 degrees, CompSci and Psychology. I kinda wish

I knew less about this stuff. I think it's more scary when you know the science. I know my GABA receptors are pretty beat up.

 

A part of me is surprised modern medicine doesn't have a better way.

 

Thanks a bunch guys. I appreciate it. I do. Sorry if that was long. I don't talk about this much.

Ryan

 

edit;wehatetypos

[[Ma...]]

Hey Libertas, I saw you on this morning and just wanted to ask how you are feeling and how your taper is going?  Thinking of you, Mary 💜

[[Li...]]

Aww ... you are so sweet, Mary5588.  I am doing ok.  I had to make a change in my taper plan and will begin implementing it today.  Keep your fingers crossed for me!  How are you doing?  Are you adjusting ok to the prescription liquid?  I hope so!  Libertas

[[Ma...]]

Aww ... you are so sweet, Mary5588.  I am doing ok.  I had to make a change in my taper plan and will begin implementing it today.  Keep your fingers crossed for me!  How are you doing?  Are you adjusting ok to the prescription liquid?  I hope so!  Libertas

 

So far, only crossed over .80 and have done ok.  Now a biggy tonite, another 2.0 mgs.  So we will both be needing crossed fingers and healing thoughts.  Hope all goes well.  Let's keep each other informed!    LY, Mary 💜

[[Li...]]

Aww ... you are so sweet, Mary5588.  I am doing ok.  I had to make a change in my taper plan and will begin implementing it today.  Keep your fingers crossed for me!  How are you doing?  Are you adjusting ok to the prescription liquid?  I hope so!  Libertas

 

So far, only crossed over .80 and have done ok.  Now a biggy tonite, another 2.0 mgs.  So we will both be needing crossed fingers and healing thoughts.  Hope all goes well.  Let's keep each other informed!    LY, Mary 💜

Oh, Mary5588!  This is wonderful news.  I am SO happy for you.  Yes, let’s definitely keep in touch.  This can be a very lonely journey and I am ever so grateful for your care, concern, and support.  Libertas

 

Edit: corrected username from partial to full so redaction will work properly

[[ha...]]

Hi all,

 

New here and 2 months into a taper. I started at 1.25mg K.

 

For an entire week beginning August 16, I went down to 0.5mg / day without realizing this was insane. After that week, I went up to 1mg / day and held until the end of September while I worked on a special job project.

 

On Sept. 25 I started a daily liquid micro taper using whole milk and today I'm at 0.865mg.

 

I take about 1/4 to 1/3 of my dose in the morning and the rest in the evening. I usually start getting anxious and paranoid around 3pm, but it often subsides around 8pm even though I don't take my dose until 9 or 10pm. Sometimes I feel angry or impatient and have the urge to yell at a coworker (I never do this and it's not a personality trait of mine), so I just curse in my head and smile and then deal with my issues the adult way.

 

My coping tools are exercise, distraction, and (I hope) working on my underlying anxiety with positive thinking. Also, a heavy wool blanket and thinking about gravity helps.

 

I have some fears about how the taper will feel as I get further along, and I try to remember one day at a time.

 

I have a post here with some questions about Valium http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231199.0

 

Thank you I am extremely motivated and I'm dedicated to a slow and steady course.

[[Th...]]

Hey everyone I’m using a Gemini scale to do daily microcuts but the damn thing is not accurate no matter how many times I calibrate it. Is this common? Should I return it?

[[Br...]]

Hey everyone I’m using a Gemini scale to do daily microcuts but the damn thing is not accurate no matter how many times I calibrate it. Is this common? Should I return it?

 

Greek,  my Gemini 20 scale is OK to 1/10 and 1/100, but when it comes to the third digit (1/1000) .....not so much.  As you,  calibrating the scale wasn't a help.  For 30 bucks it's a decent product for general tapering, however for a high degree of accuracy the liquid taper is the way to go.

[[Th...]]

I don’t mind trying the DLMT but I’m at crossroad right now because I have a tiny piece of benzo along with my .5 tablet and .25 (.5 scored in half). The tiny piece was a left over .125 that I used to score by eye. Theoretically in pill weight it was .041 g and I have reduced it to .034 g but since my scale in not very accurate. Even if I was to begin a DLMT how would I address that tiny piece into my calculations when I can’t properly weight it with accuracy?

[[Br...]]

I don’t mind trying the DLMT but I’m at crossroad right now because I have a tiny piece of benzo along with my .5 tablet and .25 (.5 scored in half). The tiny piece was a left over .125 that I used to score by eye. Theoretically in pill weight it was .041 g and I have reduced it to .034 g but since my scale in not very accurate. Even if I was to begin a DLMT how would I address that tiny piece into my calculations when I can’t properly weight it with accuracy?

 

You might ask Builder as he knows the DLMT. 

[[Fi...]]

I don’t mind trying the DLMT but I’m at crossroad right now because I have a tiny piece of benzo along with my .5 tablet and .25 (.5 scored in half). The tiny piece was a left over .125 that I used to score by eye. Theoretically in pill weight it was .041 g and I have reduced it to .034 g but since my scale in not very accurate. Even if I was to begin a DLMT how would I address that tiny piece into my calculations when I can’t properly weight it with accuracy?

 

I have gone through a couple of Gemini scales.  I have to make sure I change the batteries when it starts to get too jumpy.  I now am using two scales just for accuracy.  I'm about to order another one to have on hand when one of these goes. 

 

The scale can make me crazy but since I did not respond well to liquid for my last med taper, I'm going to try and stick with it. 

[[Kg...]]

The Greek:

 

Keep using the TARE function on the scale until your .5 mg pill weighs what your average pill weight is - then just cut a large amount of pills (I used to do 2 weeks worth) in that one sitting.  The scale is not great but again the actual accuracy of the .001 measurements is not that concerning - it is how you feel when you cut.  Please don't get obsessed with pill weight etc - you are still doing very small cuts. If you are worried that your scale is off and you can't accurately cut .001 than cut .002 and change your taper rate to reflect this. 

 

If you can access the archived KK board you will see that all of us there just used the cheap scale - only bought one - and managed to do fine all the way off.  The scales were not any better 3-5 years ago. 

[[Fi...]]

The Greek:

 

Keep using the TARE function on the scale until your .5 mg pill weighs what your average pill weight is - then just cut a large amount of pills (I used to do 2 weeks worth) in that one sitting.  The scale is not great but again the actual accuracy of the .001 measurements is not that concerning - it is how you feel when you cut.  Please don't get obsessed with pill weight etc - you are still doing very small cuts. If you are worried that your scale is off and you can't accurately cut .001 than cut .002 and change your taper rate to reflect this. 

 

If you can access the archived KK board you will see that all of us there just used the cheap scale - only bought one - and managed to do fine all the way off.  The scales were not any better 3-5 years ago.

 

Always glad to hear your thoughts on getting off K. 

I'm going to do a bunch of pills at once as well because cutting and weighing them daily is stressful.

 

 

Edit: fixed quote box.

~Colin

[Guest [Lo...]]

Helo Klonopin Club Members—

I am very worried that I have been experiencing withdrawal symptoms even without yet beginning a taper. For past 4 months,have had numbness/tingling on bottom of feet and now around mouth, adreneline surges/panic, fogginess, etc.  If it is withdrawal, what should I do?  Thank you.

Lookinup