Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ul...]]

 

The universal shelf-life that pharmacies attach to meds is 12 months, but the actual (verified) "shelf-life" is at least 5-6 years.

 

Over time, there may be some physical degradation of the tablets,, but the active ingredient, clonazepam, will remain stable and fully potent.

 

Great insight. Thanks, Builder!

 

Jeff

[[Sp...]]

Builder, I am new to BenzoBuddies. I am a 69 year old male that started down the psych med trail about 5 years ago when I was struggling with insomnia, anxiety and depression. You were recommended to me by a fellow named Jeff who has been kind enough to council me about tapering off of first, Valium 10mg and then Remeron 37.5mg. He suggested I use a liquid titration methodology and that you could help me get started with the Valium taper because you have been very helpful to him. I lean toward the liquid tapering because I want to take this taper at a very slow pace to avoid a setback. I am not sure if this reply will reach you because I am not sure how these posts get to specific individuals. Look forward to your reply.

Robert

[[ga...]]

Hi Spinner. Builder does check in here and also on the Titration board and the General Taper board.

 

Just my 2 cents, Valium comes as a liquid prescription and will make doing liquid titration easier if your doctor will prescribe it.

 

Gard

[[Pe...]]

Hi Everyone,

I am pretty new to this forum. I have been doing a liquid taper of Klonopin for over a year now and am very frustrated.

I am only at 20% reduction of a .5mg pill. I have been using a 5ml graduated cylinder and reducing 1/10th ml every 6-8 weeks. This seems ultra slow to me.

After going down I am usually still holding for a long time.

I came from another group they think my CNS is extremely sensitive. I am also a bit over 2 yrs post-antidepressant withdrawal (Yay me!!)

I was told I may still be experiencing windows and waves of the AD. I had no idea how much this benzo WD would be kicking my ass.

Any advice??

BTW...since joining this forum a few weeks ago I am now using 1ml of alcohol to dissolve the pill first before adding water. Prior to that it was only water.

I do notice my sleep is a bit better. I am hoping this means I can reduce quicker now. 

[[...]]

Hi Peaceflower,

 

Let me see if I understand you right.  If you start at 5ml and only cut 1/10th of a ml each time, that is 50 cuts needed to reach zero.  If you do this every 2 months, that is 100 months or 8 years.  That is slower than I have ever heard of.  Do you have any withdrawal symptoms?

 

I can tell you I was also tapering starting from 0.5 mg of Klonopin and my first cuts were large and I paid the price terrible.

 

Basically I got from 0.5 mg to 0.125mg by splitting my pill in parts too fast.  The withdrawal symptoms were terrible.

 

I then held at 0.125mg for 8 weeks and got stable.

 

I now am doing a dry taper using dry ingredients to reduce the dose.  I make 30 pills at a time, each 0.001 mg less of Klonopin.  At this rate, it will take me 125 days to be at zero Klonopin.

 

But I do feel stable during this taper so far (16 days into it).  I also added Magnesium a few hours before bed which seems to help. 

 

[[Ul...]]

Hi Everyone,

I am pretty new to this forum. I have been doing a liquid taper of Klonopin for over a year now and am very frustrated.

I am only at 20% reduction of a .5mg pill. I have been using a 5ml graduated cylinder and reducing 1/10th ml every 6-8 weeks. This seems ultra slow to me.

After going down I am usually still holding for a long time.

I came from another group they think my CNS is extremely sensitive. I am also a bit over 2 yrs post-antidepressant withdrawal (Yay me!!)

I was told I may still be experiencing windows and waves of the AD. I had no idea how much this benzo WD would be kicking my ass.

Any advice??

BTW...since joining this forum a few weeks ago I am now using 1ml of alcohol to dissolve the pill first before adding water. Prior to that it was only water.

I do notice my sleep is a bit better. I am hoping this means I can reduce quicker now. 

 

Trying to dissolve using only water can be a huge problem based on my experience. I was taught by a person a lot more experienced than me that I should use 2-3mL of vodka to dissolve my k pill and then add the water. I was on tons of meds for tons of years, but I've tapered off all of them except k. That was my biggest beast and I knew it would be, so I saved it for last so I could only focus on that. My CNS and entire body is beyond sensitive. Way over the top. I do a symptoms-based taper and don't even bother with percentages. To each his/her own! Do they even make 5mL graduated cylinders? That's a new one to me. Must be one small cylinder. Congrats on the AD taper! I know that sx can really linger depending on how long or how fast that journey went. If it was a rough ride, then I know many people that have protracted withdrawals for quite a long time after jumping. Heal faster than you taper! I'd forget about speed and just do what feels right to your body and mind. The fastest one to the finish line usually isn't the winner in this kind of race. People will jump in here for you, but it sounds like you're on the right path. Hang in there!

 

Jeff

[[Pe...]]

Thank you both for responding, and yes I do have WD symptoms and yes, 5ml cylinder. It's pretty small.

I too got very sick breaking the pill into quarters and was down to .25 at night. I reinstated up to .5 and stabilized before starting liquid taper. Unfortunately that was not the case for my Lexapro.

I agree that taking your time is best however I'm glad you did the math for me Bob. This is the reason I joined this group.

Two things- yes, I was doing only water until I joined this group. I notice a much cleaner/clearer liquid when dissolving in alcohol. My sleep has improved already.

My other issue is I don't have a supportive doctor prescribing for me. She's a PA that I've been lying to just to keep her writing my script. I don't know how long I can keep up this farce.

I journal my sleep/symptoms daily and if I do better I plan to start reducing more often.

Thank you both for weighing in!! 

[[...]]

For people who never felt good on a benzo, do you find holding during your slow DMT helps sx's at all?

 

[[...]]

Hi Peaceflower,

 

I see that Bob calculated your time for you. LOL, I am tapering from 1.1325mg and tapering .0019mg a week with lots of holds thrown in. I also have w/d sxs even at this small taper. I'm not worried about how long it is going to take me to get off of this beast, as Ultra puts it, because going this slowly I am functional. I can get out and live life while I'm tapering. When I try to go faster I personally end up trapped in my house barely getting by. I'm fortunate to have a good support system in my husband and children. It's still rough though. I really like Ultra's way of doing this, based on sxs instead of percentages or timeline. Though he will tell you that I do fret at times about how long this is going to take me 

 

I don't know if you are familiar with Surviving Antidepressants but if you are there is a member/moderator there called Rhi and she posted a thread about the slowness of slow tapers. It is quite uplifting and encourages going slowly. She talks about a person who is taking 12 years to taper off of his benzo and she says it the right way to do it. On top of that when you walk off the med you probably won't have to deal with the post benzo w/d sxs you'll just be done!! Who knows you may even be able to speed up as time goes on. I've seen all sorts of stories on here about things that happen while tapering including being able to go faster as they get lower in dose. I'm always hoping!!

 

By the way, I use Cashew milk to dissolve my K. K is fat soluble so it stays in suspension unless you rinse your implements with too much water  .

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

 

[[Pe...]]

Thank you T for the encouragement!! This pill is definitely a beast and a half!

I am familiar with the other group. I came from there to here because I was only hearing back from one person and that was not enough support for me.

I will be switching to a dry cut method soon here.

I am quoting a description of WDnormal from the other group. I hope it helps those of you who are not familiar with it.

 

"WDnormal is the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

 Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a drop in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a drop in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses."

[[Wo...]]

Hi everyone. I mailed the expensive scale back and thankfully am getting a full refund. I have been feeling better much more stable and a lot of sxs have cleared up so I feel more confident to try the DLMT. The anxiety around it was def a withdrawal sxs! I’m now at .03 and if I am successful using a high fat nut milk for daily titration I would love to get down to as close to 0 as possible.

 

Will keep y’all posted!

 

Thanks everyone.

 

 

[[bu...]]

Builder, I am new to BenzoBuddies. I am a 69 year old male that started down the psych med trail about 5 years ago when I was struggling with insomnia, anxiety and depression. You were recommended to me by a fellow named Jeff who has been kind enough to council me about tapering off of first, Valium 10mg and then Remeron 37.5mg. He suggested I use a liquid titration methodology and that you could help me get started with the Valium taper because you have been very helpful to him. I lean toward the liquid tapering because I want to take this taper at a very slow pace to avoid a setback. I am not sure if this reply will reach you because I am not sure how these posts get to specific individuals. Look forward to your reply.

Robert

 

I'll be glad to help. 

 

If you have a cooperative doc who will write the scrip, , the easiest, most reliable method is Rx liquid diazepam.

 

If that's not an option, I can tell you how convert your tablets into a true, uniformly distributed solution.

 

[[...]]

Builder, I am new to BenzoBuddies. I am a 69 year old male that started down the psych med trail about 5 years ago when I was struggling with insomnia, anxiety and depression. You were recommended to me by a fellow named Jeff who has been kind enough to council me about tapering off of first, Valium 10mg and then Remeron 37.5mg. He suggested I use a liquid titration methodology and that you could help me get started with the Valium taper because you have been very helpful to him. I lean toward the liquid tapering because I want to take this taper at a very slow pace to avoid a setback. I am not sure if this reply will reach you because I am not sure how these posts get to specific individuals. Look forward to your reply.

Robert

 

I'll be glad to help. 

 

If you have a cooperative doc who will write the scrip, , the easiest, most reliable method is Rx liquid diazepam.

 

If that's not an option, I can tell you how convert your tablets into a true, uniformly distributed solution.

 

Hi builder - I think Wonderwomen23 is on Klonopin.  I hope she is not considering switching to diazeapam.  I know Ashton does that but I keep seeing people stuck at 2 mg of diazepam - it seems like low doses of diazepam make them sick but they cannot or will not reduce more because the withdrawal gets worse.  Just my observation of reading other posts.

[[Ju...]]

I think a good long hold will get you lower than 2 mg. diazepam (Valium).  I thought I couldn't get off Valium, and I held for two years.  Now I am almost at 1.25 mg. Valium, and I am getting along rather well.

[[Ul...]]

Thank you both for responding, and yes I do have WD symptoms and yes, 5ml cylinder. It's pretty small.

I too got very sick breaking the pill into quarters and was down to .25 at night. I reinstated up to .5 and stabilized before starting liquid taper. Unfortunately that was not the case for my Lexapro.

I agree that taking your time is best however I'm glad you did the math for me Bob. This is the reason I joined this group.

Two things- yes, I was doing only water until I joined this group. I notice a much cleaner/clearer liquid when dissolving in alcohol. My sleep has improved already.

My other issue is I don't have a supportive doctor prescribing for me. She's a PA that I've been lying to just to keep her writing my script. I don't know how long I can keep up this farce.

I journal my sleep/symptoms daily and if I do better I plan to start reducing more often.

Thank you both for weighing in!! 

 

Heck, I've been doing that for almost 3 years!! I initially couldn't find anyone to write my scripts (long story), but I eventually found a nut-job about an hour and a half away who writes it. In fact, I just got back a couple hours ago today from my trip to get my new 6 month script. I went through killer hell to find a prescriber, but it happened. Close call. Just do what you have to do, right? Part of the game. You're finding your niche and will be fine, I'm sure. Keep going!!

 

Take care!

Jeff

[[ga...]]

 

Heck, I've been doing that for almost 3 years!! I initially couldn't find anyone to write my scripts (long story), but I eventually found a nut-job about an hour and a half away who writes it. In fact, I just got back a couple hours ago today from my trip to get my new 6 month script. I went through killer hell to find a prescriber, but it happened. Close call. Just do what you have to do, right? Part of the game. You're finding your niche and will be fine, I'm sure. Keep going!!

 

Take care!

Jeff

 

I sure remember that, Jeff! And your saying, "Next!" over and over until you found a prescriber.

 

 

I'm also "doing what I have to do" to make sure I don't run out of Librium, and that's all I'm saying!

 

Gard

[[ka...]]

I think a good long hold will get you lower than 2 mg. diazepam (Valium).  I thought I couldn't get off Valium, and I held for two years.  Now I am almost at 1.25 mg. Valium, and I am getting along rather well.

 

Or you can adjust your taper if possible to enable you to taper a bit less and to stretch out your reduction over a week. I have had to re- event my tapering 3 times as I have reach various lower levels on valium.  Once I adjusted it, it made my DLMT tolerable and beneficial so I can continue in my very slow taper off.

[[Sp...]]

Thank you Buddie for your quick reply. I believe my GP will work with me regarding liquid diazepam. I am ready to start a slow taper. I must add that I am also drinking 2-3 alcoholic drinks per day before 6pm. I am trying to cut that back as well. Your guidance would be extremely helpful to me. I know alcohol and benzos are a bad mix but that is how I have been coping for a couple of years. I realize that I cannot go on like this and I am committed to healing my brain and nervous system. Thank you so much for your time.

Robert

[[ga...]]

Thank you Buddie for your quick reply. I believe my GP will work with me regarding liquid diazepam. I am ready to start a slow taper. I must add that I am also drinking 2-3 alcoholic drinks per day before 6pm. I am trying to cut that back as well. Your guidance would be extremely helpful to me. I know alcohol and benzos are a bad mix but that is how I have been coping for a couple of years. I realize that I cannot go on like this and I am committed to healing my brain and nervous system. Thank you so much for your time.

Robert

 

Spinner, do you know how to add a signature block to your posts? See how my history is under each post I write? That's my "signature." It will be helpful to builder to see your signature with your posts. If you go to profile (near top of page) and then forum profile you will see the place for creating a signature that will appear under each of your posts. It's really a very good idea to make one.

 

Gard

[[Ul...]]

 

Heck, I've been doing that for almost 3 years!! I initially couldn't find anyone to write my scripts (long story), but I eventually found a nut-job about an hour and a half away who writes it. In fact, I just got back a couple hours ago today from my trip to get my new 6 month script. I went through killer hell to find a prescriber, but it happened. Close call. Just do what you have to do, right? Part of the game. You're finding your niche and will be fine, I'm sure. Keep going!!

 

Take care!

Jeff

 

I sure remember that, Jeff! And your saying, "Next!" over and over until you found a prescriber.

 

 

I'm also "doing what I have to do" to make sure I don't run out of Librium, and that's all I'm saying!

 

Gard

 

I gotcha, sweet lady. That was a killer time, no doubt about it. You keep doing what you gotta do until you get off this train

 

Next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[[Sc...]]

Hi Peaceflower,

 

I see that Bob calculated your time for you. LOL, I am tapering from 1.1325mg and tapering .0019mg a week with lots of holds thrown in. I also have w/d sxs even at this small taper. I'm not worried about how long it is going to take me to get off of this beast, as Ultra puts it, because going this slowly I am functional. I can get out and live life while I'm tapering. When I try to go faster I personally end up trapped in my house barely getting by. I'm fortunate to have a good support system in my husband and children. It's still rough though. I really like Ultra's way of doing this, based on sxs instead of percentages or timeline. Though he will tell you that I do fret at times about how long this is going to take me 

 

I don't know if you are familiar with Surviving Antidepressants but if you are there is a member/moderator there called Rhi and she posted a thread about the slowness of slow tapers. It is quite uplifting and encourages going slowly. She talks about a person who is taking 12 years to taper off of his benzo and she says it the right way to do it. On top of that when you walk off the med you probably won't have to deal with the post benzo w/d sxs you'll just be done!! Who knows you may even be able to speed up as time goes on. I've seen all sorts of stories on here about things that happen while tapering including being able to go faster as they get lower in dose. I'm always hoping!!

 

By the way, I use Cashew milk to dissolve my K. K is fat soluble so it stays in suspension unless you rinse your implements with too much water  .

 

Hugs,

 

T

Hi,

I don’t know how to get onto this support group. I don’t see a ‘new’ prompt to start a new message, so I’m just going to post here & hope for feedback & hopefully interaction with other dlmt members, especially klonopin & dlmt.

Thank you & I hope you are well.

 

Hi,

Since my first dose of liquid clonazapam compounded by pharmacist felt like placebo, I’d really like to here from those who’ve taken pharm compounded liquid clonazapam & your experiences with it.

 

If it didn’t work for you. Lease tell how you knew it wasn’t working & how long it took you to figure that out? Did you have serious ramifications from the experience?

 

Was yours made with pure powder? Crushed tablets? What solution? Concentration? Etc

 

Mine is made with ora sweet & ora plus with crushed teva tablets(my generic)@ .5mg/ml concentration. My total daily dose is 3.5mg & I plan to liquid taper .5mg @ a time remaining on tablets for the rest of other daily dosesuntil next .5mg 6:30am dose is ready to be tapered, then liquid taper that down to .25mg hold, & liquid taper 12:30pm dose down to .25mg, then hopefully liquid taper each of those day doses down simultaneously, as I remain on tablets for bed dose, until that comes then liquid taper off that .5mg @ a time.

 

If you tried it & decided to go a different route & that worked better, please let me know of that, too, if you would please.

 

All experiences & imput welcome.

Much thanks

 

 

[[Sp...]]

Hello Builder, I am not sure you received my reply to your post. I spaced out and typed in the name Buddie instead of Builder in my last post. I am looking forward to beginning the tapering of my Valium and and then my Remeron. I can get my doctor to prescribe liquid Valium but I am not sure how to taper. I know that it is unwise to simply do a 5 or 10% reduction on the 10mg I am taking presently each month. I understand that you should taper a fixed percentage on each level as you reduce your dosage but I am unable to see how that can be done accurately. I value your experience and advice.

Thanks,

Robert

[[ga...]]

 

Hi,

I don’t know how to get onto this support group. I don’t see a ‘new’ prompt to start a new message, so I’m just going to post here & hope for feedback & hopefully interaction with other dlmt members, especially klonopin & dlmt.

Thank you & I hope you are well.

 

Hi,

Since my first dose of liquid clonazapam compounded by pharmacist felt like placebo, I’d really like to here from those who’ve taken pharm compounded liquid clonazapam & your experiences with it.

 

If it didn’t work for you. Lease tell how you knew it wasn’t working & how long it took you to figure that out? Did you have serious ramifications from the experience?

 

Was yours made with pure powder? Crushed tablets? What solution? Concentration? Etc

 

Mine is made with ora sweet & ora plus with crushed teva tablets(my generic)@ .5mg/ml concentration. My total daily dose is 3.5mg & I plan to liquid taper .5mg @ a time remaining on tablets for the rest of other daily dosesuntil next .5mg 6:30am dose is ready to be tapered, then liquid taper that down to .25mg hold, & liquid taper 12:30pm dose down to .25mg, then hopefully liquid taper each of those day doses down simultaneously, as I remain on tablets for bed dose, until that comes then liquid taper off that .5mg @ a time.

 

If you tried it & decided to go a different route & that worked better, please let me know of that, too, if you would please.

 

All experiences & imput welcome.

Much thanks

 

To start a totally new post, just click on "reply" at the bottom of the thread.

 

To start a new thread with a new topic title you have to be on one of the main boards, such as the titration board. (This is just a thread.) Click here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0. Then look for the "new topic" button at the upper right.

 

I'm sorry I have always done my own compounding, so I can't help you there. But, to the you the truth, I don't trust a pharmacy enough to let them compound my medication. That's just me. I know others have done it.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Spinner, Have you tried the main Titration Board? Builder was there today.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0

 

Gard

[[Ca...]]

Guard, -You have lost your trust in medical stuff..??

-How could that happen..!! Lol

 

My Best to you...