Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [Fu...]]

Micro tapering with such a sensitized central nervous system after 3 failed tapers and in terrible tolerance just feels impossible. I know others have done it but I truly don't know how. Baylissa speaks of her clients who are too sick to even sit up in bed and with every minor cut I get closer to being one of those people. I don't even know why I'm posting this especially since people on this forum find my posts annoying I just feel like the light at the end of the tunnel is way far out of reach and for the first time in five and a half years I honestly feel like giving up. I don't want to do this anymore.

[[bu...]]

Micro tapering with such a sensitized central nervous system after 3 failed tapers and in terrible tolerance just feels impossible. I know others have done it but I truly don't know how. Baylissa speaks of her clients who are too sick to even sit up in bed and with every minor cut I get closer to being one of those people. I don't even know why I'm posting this especially since people on this forum find my posts annoying I just feel like the light at the end of the tunnel is way far out of reach and for the first time in five and a half years I honestly feel like giving up. I don't want to do this anymore.

 

The more "sensitized" you are, the more microtapering makes sense.

[Guest [Fu...]]

I know. It's my only option to get off. Not sure why you had to throw the quotes around sensitized. I've failed three tapers and bounced around like crazy and now it's much, MUCH harder to make any progress on a taper than it was especially on my first attempt.

[[Su...]]

Micro tapering with such a sensitized central nervous system after 3 failed tapers and in terrible tolerance just feels impossible. I know others have done it but I truly don't know how. Baylissa speaks of her clients who are too sick to even sit up in bed and with every minor cut I get closer to being one of those people. I don't even know why I'm posting this especially since people on this forum find my posts annoying I just feel like the light at the end of the tunnel is way far out of reach and for the first time in five and a half years I honestly feel like giving up. I don't want to do this anymore.

Hi Fuzzy,

Well I for one sure don't find your posts annoying!! I feel for you and wish there was something I could offer other than what you have heard before. 

I'm just very sorry that you are in this place and feeling so alone in your journey.  Maybe there are more people on this forum who are walking beside you than you think....  I've been  walking alongside you for awhile now.

SS

 

[Guest [Fu...]]

Thank you I appreciate that. I'm sorry that you're suffering nobody deserves this.

[[jr...]]

Thank you I appreciate that. I'm sorry that you're suffering nobody deserves this.

 

Perhaps it is time to updose to a comfortable level. you can taper later when you are more stable.

[[Sa...]]

Can anyone help me please. I have been on Xanax for 21 days at .75mgs a day. .5 around mid afternoon and another .25 around 9. I have 29 1 mg pills left and about 20 .5 Klonopin.

[[Lo...]]

Sadpepe, Any chance you can cut the .25mg in half and try:

 

.25mg + .125mg mid afternoon and another .25mg around 9pm. (That would bring you down to .625mg total per day)

[Guest [Fu...]]

I tried updosing and it did not stabilize me.

[[Sa...]]

Fuzzy, I hope you feel better asap. Your posts aren't annoying either. You deserve to be able to vent just like everyone else.

[Guest [Fu...]]

Thank you I appreciate that

[[US...]]

Hello Everyone!  I haven’t been on in awhile.  Trying to just put my head down and push through.  I reduce everyday by .02mg using PG/water.  My original plan that I followed had me reducing by 10% every 2 weeks.  But now that I’m under 1.5mg...doesn’t that % go way up because my dose is smaller? I dose 4x a day.  What happens when your dose is so small that you can’t divide it into 4 doses?  How do I know if I’m just experiencing normal withdrawal or if I’m going to fast?  At this rate, my taper should end June 19.  Any experience or advice would be appreciated 

[[de...]]

Hello Everyone!  I haven’t been on in awhile.  Trying to just put my head down and push through.  I reduce everyday by .02mg using PG/water.  My original plan that I followed had me reducing by 10% every 2 weeks.  But now that I’m under 1.5mg...doesn’t that % go way up because my dose is smaller? I dose 4x a day.  What happens when your dose is so small that you can’t divide it into 4 doses?  How do I know if I’m just experiencing normal withdrawal or if I’m going to fast?  At this rate, my taper should end June 19.  Any experience or advice would be appreciated 

 

USMC2532,

 

From your post and Sig:

1/17 - 3mg Xanax

1/31 - 2.7mg

2/18 - 2.42 mg

3/15 - 1.94mg

4/7 - 1.46mg

 

How are you calculating your 10% cut every 2 weeks (or so)?  From the initial 3mg?  Or from the ending dosage after the most recent cut? 

[[Wo...]]

I’m still looking for help doing the math for a DLMT.

 

I’m at .037 klonopin could prob go down 5-10% a month.

 

Can anyone do that conversion?

 

Thanks!

[[Ha...]]

Hi WW23, Jim Hawk has a digital calculation which may help you. Here's a link http://bzo.spes-lavaux.ch/TaperPlan.htm

[[US...]]

Hi delta1,

 

I was given a plan by builder when I started at 3mg to reduce by .02mg a day, everyday until the end.  So I guess it was based upon the original 3mg.  I was told that removing that small of an amount everyday would be negligible all the way down.  I’m reducing about .50mg a month at this point. 

[[de...]]

Hello Everyone!  I haven’t been on in awhile.  Trying to just put my head down and push through.  I reduce everyday by .02mg using PG/water.  My original plan that I followed had me reducing by 10% every 2 weeks.  But now that I’m under 1.5mg...doesn’t that % go way up because my dose is smaller? I dose 4x a day.  What happens when your dose is so small that you can’t divide it into 4 doses?  How do I know if I’m just experiencing normal withdrawal or if I’m going to fast?  At this rate, my taper should end June 19.  Any experience or advice would be appreciated 

 

USMC2532,

 

From your post and Sig:

1/17 - 3mg Xanax

1/31 - 2.7mg

2/18 - 2.42 mg

3/15 - 1.94mg

4/7 - 1.46mg

 

How are you calculating your 10% cut every 2 weeks (or so)?  From the initial 3mg?  Or from the ending dosage after the most recent cut?

 

Hi delta1,

 

I was given a plan by builder when I started at 3mg to reduce by .02mg a day, everyday until the end.  So I guess it was based upon the original 3mg.  I was told that removing that small of an amount everyday would be negligible all the way down.  I’m reducing about .50mg a month at this point.

 

USMC2352,

 

So you're doing a fixed quantity reduction, cutting .02mg each day.  That means, yes, that your reduction % goes way up as your dosage gets low.  To compare, if you were doing a fixed percent reduction (of 10% every few weeks, for instance), your doses would have been like this:

 

1/17 - 3mg Xanax

1/31 - 2.7mg

2/18 - 2.43mg (2.7 minus 10%, which is .27)

3/15 - 2.187mg (2.43 minus 10%, which is .243)

4/7 - 1.97mg (2.187 minus 10%, which is .2187)

 

Which is a slower taper than what you've been doing.  As I understand, the difference is that a fixed quantity reduction is faster but risks symptoms revving up toward the end of tapering (because reduction % goes way up), while a fixed percent reduction is longer but less likely to bring on symptoms because it's "gentler." 

 

And, you're tapering too fast if your symptoms become intolerable, unmanageable.  When your dose gets too small to divide into 4 doses, I think you start dropping doses, but I hope other BBs can answer this more concretely. 

 

Maybe you already know all this, but your earlier post caught my eye and then I had to pipe up. 

 

 

 

 

[[US...]]

Hi delta1,

 

Now I’m scared.  I’m guess I’m going way too fast.  I’m .50 mg ahead of where I should be.  How do I adjust my daily doses to correct this?  Do I reduce by .01mg a day instead?  Or do I take the same dose everyday for 2 weeks and then cut every 2 weeks by 10% like you illustrated?  I’m so confused and panicked.  Thank you for your help delta1

[[de...]]

Hi delta1,

 

Now I’m scared.  I’m guess I’m going way too fast.  I’m .50 mg ahead of where I should be.  How do I adjust my daily doses to correct this?  Do I reduce by .01mg a day instead?  Or do I take the same dose everyday for 2 weeks and then cut every 2 weeks by 10% like you illustrated?  I’m so confused and panicked.  Thank you for your help delta1

 

USMC2532, no need to panic! 

 

Rather than reduce by .02mg per day everyday to the end, you can go from your current dose of 1.46mg by 10% reductions every 14 days, using the "ending dose" (at day 14 of each particular period) as your new starting point for the next 14-day reduction.  Just so you're comfortable, you could even stay at your current dose until you figure this out and understand what to do, won't take very long, just do a few calculations and you'll see.

 

And this should help -- pasting in below what Jim Hawk explained in a thread about his taper plan generators (that he designed on his own time so other BBs can use it), here:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=200198.0

 

In this BB you can see almost always reductions in terms of percent/period of days (E.g: 10%/14 days). Behind this term, actually there are two distinct approaches in tapering:

 

1. That 10%/14 days will be translated in mg/day based on the current dose you are taking. For instance if your current dose is 1 mg/day then 10% will be 0.1 mg. Divided by 14 days (=2 weeks), it gives 0.00714 mg/day. This fixed amount will be your daily reduction until the end, if no symptoms arise meanwhile. So this percentage is just applied for the first dose then ignored afterwards. This approach known as "fixed quantity reduction" is the most commonly seen in this BB. It is fast, easy to remember and to apply. There might be symptoms upcoming especially towards the end and might require you to reduce the dose or hold more time until you stabilize to pass to a lower dose.

 

2. The "fixed percent reduction" is where the ratio of 10%/14 days is applied throughout the entire taper exercise. The daily reduction is calculated with that ratio over the daily dose. That implies that the daily reduction diminishes every day because the daily dose is smaller each day. That implies too a very low reduction evolution, a longer taper duration but it will likely raise no symptoms. This method is definitely "gentler" from a symptoms viewpoint.

[[ga...]]

 

USMC2532, no need to panic! 

 

Rather than reduce by .02mg per day everyday to the end, you can go from your current dose of 1.46mg by 10% reductions every 14 days, using the "ending dose" (at day 14 of each particular period) as your new starting point for the next 14-day reduction.  Just so you're comfortable, you could even stay at your current dose until you figure this out and understand what to do, won't take very long, just do a few calculations and you'll see.

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

You're doing fine. Different people use different methods of cutting. Just go by your symptoms and cut at a rate that is comfortable. If you need to hold at your current dose for awhile, you will be in good company. Many of us have done that on a regular basis.

 

Gard

[[Ji...]]

Hi USMC2532 

 

How do I adjust my daily doses to correct this?

 

Is there any other reasons besides "not in schedule" that made you think you'll need to adjust your daily dose? If it was for the unbearable symptoms that have arisen meanwhile then it would be fully justified. Otherwise don't worry, you are doing fine.

 

Many buddies found that the last part of the taper exercise (~1/3) is where they felt most vulnerable as symptoms easily tend to manifest themselves. This is the phase where you possibly have to pay a particular attention. So far you have been reducing with fixed quantity reduction, and that until you feel symptoms. Then you adapt by lowering your dose. This method advocated by the majority of buddies is fast, easy to understand but symptoms prone.

 

If you are lucky enough that your current symptoms are bearable, I propose you go slow in this phase. Try to switch to the fixed percent reduction. Which reduction pace to use? I see that you started with about 10%/14 days (0.02mg/day over 14 days from the initial 3 mg). This percent over the time has become 19% (0.02mg/day over 14 days calculated on the current 1.46 mg). You can start again with 10%/14 days from the current dose of 1.46 mg if no symptoms so far. Otherwise use the conservative 6-7%/14 days with the possibility to increase later on. You will see that the taper duration will considerably lengthen. Don't let it fool you. Time will pass rapidly and you will be thankful for an event-less taper.

 

Hope it helps.

[[Ch...]]

Can someone help me with Jim Hawk's plan?  Every time I put in my .75 xanax/day with a 5% reduction every 14 days, I get that it will take me 950 days to taper.  Obviously, Im.not.doing something right.  I take .25 mg 3 xs a day.  Is 5 % every 14 days too slow??  At that rate, I may as well just do the fast taper my psych is suggesting and get it over with!

[[He...]]

Hi, I have been DLMT since last July when I reached 1 mg Valium.

I reduce my dose every day anywhere between .002 and .005

I change my dose according to how I feel and according to my monthly reduction limit which is 5% every month. I make sure I never cut more than 5% total each month. Everything has been going good with little or no side effects until I reached .545 mg Valium (my only drug)

 

I know that Valium has a long half life and wdsx can show up even two weeks later and could be the result of a cut I have made two weeks ago.

But here I am, two weeks later with an even lower dose because I had continued to reduce my daily dose because I didn’t known these wdsx would pop up!

 

So, now, I have updosed a tiny bit to .535. I’ve been at .535 for about one week now. Wdsx are no worse....maybe a little better. I intend to stay at .535 for another two weeks. Hopefully this will let my CNS adjust and get stable again. But I will surely reevaluate after two more weeks and see what is wise to do next.

 

Question.... I have been advised to stop the 5% a month reduction schedule. And I know this is wise.

Instead I should do 5% of my last dose each month.

Is there a way to do this that is more than 5% of my last dose but still less than 5% a month?

It seems like it will take forever to get off of this Valium going 5%  of my last dose each month.

 

I have been tapering off of Valium for a little over two years.

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks so much for any suggestions, advice, opinions  etc.

 

Heathcliff

[[US...]]

Hi Jim Hawk and agars!!    Thanks so much for responding to me.  I tried to fill out your taper plan and got easily confused unfortunately.  I’m now at 1.4mg and my symptoms have really increased when I hit 1.5mg.  My anxiety has returned full force.  It was actually more manageable even just last week.  Should I just stay at 1.4 for awhile?  What would my schedule look like if I reduced 10% every 14 days from this point?  I’m dosing 4x a day right now.  It just seems like it hit out of nowhere.  Thanks for any advice or help!!  Thank you again delta1!  I thought this was all getting tolerable and now I feel like I’m back to square 1...

[[US...]]

Typo..Gard, thanks for responding as well.  Also, re-reading your post Jim Hawk, I’m confused about what you said about doing a fixed reduction?  My brain is not working lately.  Do you mean I don’t reduce daily but once every 14 days by 10%?  I’m so discouraged...I thought I had this thing down. I feel like an idiot once again.