Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [...]]

Hi. I want to start tapering Lyrica. I am on 2 x 75mg per day. I've been told that it dissolves in water, unlike my diazepam, which required a vodka taper.

 

My question is, if I empty one 75mg capsule into water, how much water should I use?

 

Thanks.

 

Depends how fast you want to cut Gilly. I think I used 1ml to 1mg from memory.

[[Aj...]]

Hi,

 

I had to reinstate on March 17th because my dystonia type symptoms were unbearable.

 

Since going back on Diazepam the dose doesn't last in the way it used to and my symptoms start to get worse after about 3 hours.

 

I am also getting some paradoxical effects.

 

I want to get off of it again and am thinking micro tapering might be the way to go.

 

Do you think you have to be relatively stable on a dose before starting to micro-taper?

 

I'm not sure it is going to be possible for me to feel any better than I do now on my current dose but I need to move down in as smooth a way as possible because last time I tappered it got to the point that my body was crushing me after every dose wore off once I got to lower doses and I now know I probably went too fast.

 

Also I am so bad at maths that I am going to have a hard time working out how to cut it each day...

[[Wo...]]

Hi all,

 

I’ve been wanting to switch to DLMT but can’t wrap my head around it and also notice that it doesn’t work for everyone. I’ve been using a gram scale and wonder about just continuing with that?

 

I’d love to know if people have success going all the way with dry cutting with minimal symptoms? I’m now down to .033 klonopin and having some good windows.

 

I’ll post this on a couple other groups as well.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[[...]]

Has any one every tried crunching klonopin into a powder and mixing with flour or sugar and then measuring into empty gel capsules, each capsule containing less of the mixture until you get to zero?

[[bu...]]

Has any one every tried crunching klonopin into a powder and mixing with flour or sugar and then measuring into empty gel capsules, each capsule containing less of the mixture until you get to zero?

 

Liquid is much simpler, more precise.

[[Sa...]]

Can any one tell me how to taper .75 of Xanax? Been on it a little over month everyday.

[[Wo...]]

Hi,

 

My scientist friend put this together for me.  She used Jim Hawks' app and did the math by hand and said they were virtually identical so go with the app.  Super sweet of her to do this and I feel like I am finally understanding.  In terms of using the gram scale to weigh I don't think I'll need to do that if I use the ml dropper? Obviously, I am trying to get away from the scale.

 

Hoping builder or another DLMT elder can check this one more time.  Also, I may use propylene glycol or just do the almond milk method. 

I am looking at supplies now and see the 1ml syringes are super small.  Will this suffice?

 

Thanks!

 

****

 

This is what I would suggest to start the process from what I've read on the website you sent:

 

1) Grind one tablet (0.5 mg) and dissolve in 1 mL vodka or just let one tablet dissolve overnight in the 1 mL vodka. There will be some tiny particle that will not dissolve, but the actual ingredient will be dissolved; you don't have to worry about the tiny particles. If you choose to grind the tablet first, be sure to brush off the bits stuck to any implement you use to grind the tablet, so it all goes in the liquid to dissolve.

 

2) Next, add 99 mL almond milk (or whatever else you want to dilute it with). If you use water, you will not need to refrigerate it. If you add any kind of perishable liquid, you will want to refrigerate it.

 

3) To obtain 0.034 mg, you would weigh 6.8 mL of liquid.  I am saying to weigh it, so you would need a scale that goes to less than 1 gram. Remember 1 gm of water is equal to 1 mL water, so if you have a gram scale that goes two decimal places past the decimal, that would be ideal (for the rest of the taper process). For your current does, once 1 tablet has been dissolved in the 100 mL, you would use 6.8 gm (which is the same as 6.8 mL) of solution to get the 0.034 mg dose.

 

4) Each day thereafter you will be using just a bit less, according to the schedule in the pdf. For example, on Day 2 you would use 6.75 g (or 6.75 mL).

You can see the math in the Excel file I've attached, but just use the volumes in blue on the pdf.

 

I set the worksheet to have the last dose at approximately 0.019 mg, so you will need a total of 4 pills (0.5 mg each) and roughly 2.5+ months to complete the taper to that amount. Of course, you can stop before that if you'd like.

 

Day Date Dose 1 Total

dose

# / / mg = ml mg/day

1 / / 0.0337 6.74 0.0337

2 / / 0.0335 6.70 0.0335

3 / / 0.0332 6.64 0.0332

4 / / 0.0330 6.60 0.0330

5 / / 0.0327 6.54 0.0327

6 / / 0.0325 6.50 0.0325

7 / / 0.0323 6.46 0.0323

8 / / 0.0320 6.40 0.0320

9 / / 0.0318 6.36 0.0318

10 / / 0.0315 6.30 0.0315

11 / / 0.0313 6.26 0.0313

12 / / 0.0311 6.22 0.0311

13 / / 0.0308 6.16 0.0308

14 / / 0.0306 6.12 0.0306

15 / / 0.0304 6.08 0.0304

16 / / 0.0301 6.02 0.0301

17 / / 0.0299 5.98 0.0299

18 / / 0.0297 5.94 0.0297

19 / / 0.0295 5.90 0.0295

20 / / 0.0292 5.84 0.0292

21 / / 0.0290 5.80 0.0290

22 / / 0.0288 5.76 0.0288

23 / / 0.0286 5.72 0.0286

24 / / 0.0284 5.68 0.0284

25 / / 0.0282 5.64 0.0282

26 / / 0.0280 5.60 0.0280

27 / / 0.0277 5.54 0.0277

 

4/17/2018 Liquid taper Daily Plan

 

http://bzo.spes-lavaux.ch/titration/titrationResult.php 2/2

To PDF Back

 

Day Date Dose 1 Total

dose

# / / mg = ml mg/day

28 / / 0.0275 5.50 0.0275

29 / / 0.0273 5.46 0.0273

30 / / 0.0271 5.42 0.0271

31 / / 0.0269 5.38 0.0269

32 / / 0.0267 5.34 0.0267

33 / / 0.0265 5.30 0.0265

34 / / 0.0263 5.26 0.0263

35 / / 0.0261 5.22 0.0261

36 / / 0.0259 5.18 0.0259

37 / / 0.0257 5.14 0.0257

38 / / 0.0255 5.10 0.0255

39 / / 0.0254 5.08 0.0254

40 / / 0.0252 5.04 0.0252

41 / / 0.0250 5.00 0.0250

42 / / 0.0248 4.96 0.0248

43 / / 0.0246 4.92 0.0246

44 / / 0.0244 4.88 0.0244

45 / / 0.0242 4.84 0.0242

46 / / 0.0241 4.82 0.0241

47 / / 0.0239 4.78 0.0239

48 / / 0.0237 4.74 0.0237

49 / / 0.0235 4.70 0.0235

50 / / 0.0233 4.66 0.0233

51 / / 0.0232 4.64 0.0232

52 / / 0.0230 4.60 0.0230

53 / / 0.0228 4.56 0.0228

54 / / 0.0226 4.52 0.0226

55 / / 0.0225 4.50 0.0225

56 / / 0.0223 4.46 0.0223

57 / / 0.0221 4.42 0.0221

58 / / 0.0220 4.40 0.0220

59 / / 0.0218 4.36 0.0218

60 / / 0.0216 4.32 0.0216

61 / / 0.0215 4.30 0.0215

62 / / 0.0213 4.26 0.0213

63 / / 0.0212 4.24 0.0212

64 / / 0.0210 4.20 0.0210

65 / / 0.0208 4.16 0.0208

66 / / 0.0207 4.14 0.0207

67 / / 0.0205 4.10 0.0205

68 / / 0.0204 4.08 0.0204

69 / / 0.0202 4.04 0.0202

70 / / 0.0201 4.02 0.0201

71 / / 0.0199 3.98 0.0199

72 / / 0.0198 3.96 0.0198

73 / / 0.0196 3.92 0.0196

74 / / 0.0195 3.90 0.0195

75 / / 0.0193 3.86 0.0193

76 / / 0.0192 3.84 0.0192

77 / / 0.0190 3.80 0.0190

78 / / 0.0189 3.78 0.0189

Quantity of tablets of 0.5 mg needed: 4 (total: 1.9984 mg)

[[Wo...]]

ps

 

I am looking at buying the syringes.  I see that my starting dose would be 6.8 ml which has me think I should get a 10ml syringe for the larger dose and a 1ml syringe to more adequately weigh the .8.  Is that correct? Otherwise, how is it accurate?

 

thanks!

[[Ca...]]

ps

 

I am looking at buying the syringes.  I see that my starting dose would be 6.8 ml which has me think I should get a 10ml syringe for the larger dose and a 1ml syringe to more adequately weigh the .8.  Is that correct? Otherwise, how is it accurate?

 

thanks!

spot on..!!

Get some 10,s and some 1's -my chemist gave me a mixed bag for nothing..

U can put clear tape over the numbers to protect them...

[[Aj...]]

Hi,

 

My scales arrived.

 

I calibrated them but each whole pill weighs a different amount.

 

Anywhere between 173 and 176mg.

 

At the moment I am taking half a pill 4x/day.

 

So if I want to, say, reduce at 1 percent per day how do I work that out?

 

My bloke says I need to measure each pill and then remove the 1 percent from the half of that amount.

 

I used to have a brain but for the life of me I can’t get my head around this.

 

Also would one percent a day be too much or too little?

 

[[...]]

Ajusta,

 

Those scales have a hard time detecting small (1 percent) changes.

 

The best way to reduce errors is:

 

(1) First, since you are taking 2 pills a day (1/2 pill 4 times a day), you would do well to measure them together.  Put both on the scale.  The result will be about 350mg.

 

(2) 1 percent per day is 3.5mg.  Let us just 3mg because that is about the best your scale can detect in terms of changes (you should note you scale changes by just breathing on it).

 

Each day, scrape a little off each pill to follow this table:

Day mg

1 350

2 347

3 344

4 341

5 338

6 335

7 332

8 329

9 326

10 323

11 320

12 317

13 314

14 311

15 308

16 305

17 302

18 299

19 296

20 293

21 290

22 287

23 284

24 281

25 278

26 275

27 272

28 269

29 266

30 263

31 260

32 257

33 254

34 251

35 248

36 245

37 242

38 239

39 236

40 233

41 230

42 227

43 224

44 221

45 218

46 215

47 212

48 209

49 206

50 203

51 200

52 197

53 194

54 191

55 188

56 185

57 182

58 179

59 176

60 173

61 170

62 167

63 164

64 161

65 158

66 155

67 152

68 149

69 146

70 143

71 140

72 137

73 134

74 131

75 128

76 125

77 122

78 119

79 116

80 113

81 110

82 107

83 104

84 101

85 98

86 95

87 92

88 89

89 86

90 83

91 80

92 77

93 74

94 71

95 68

96 65

97 62

98 59

99 56

100 53

101 50

102 47

103 44

104 41

105 38

106 35

107 32

108 29

109 26

110 23

111 20

112 17

113 14

114 11

115 8

116 5

117 2

 

 

 

[[Aj...]]

Thank you SO much Bob!

[[...]]

You are welcome.

 

I think sometimes we are affected by cuts we made a month earlier so take special note about a month from now.  If things feel freaky, hold at that mg dose until you are stable again.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

[[Aj...]]

My problem is I am already in severe withdrawal from being off completely and then having to reinstate so it is hard to know how slowly to take it or if I am just prolonging the agony but too fast and I will not be able to survive.

 

Ho hum...

[[bu...]]

Hi,

 

My scales arrived.

 

I calibrated them but each whole pill weighs a different amount.

 

Anywhere between 173 and 176mg.

 

At the moment I am taking half a pill 4x/day.

 

So if I want to, say, reduce at 1 percent per day how do I work that out?

 

My bloke says I need to measure each pill and then remove the 1 percent from the half of that amount.

 

I used to have a brain but for the life of me I can’t get my head around this.

 

Also would one percent a day be too much or too little?

 

1)  It won't matter.  The tablets have always varied,so it won't be any different from what you're used to.

 

2)  If it really bothers you, then weigh 10 tablets and just use the average for your plan/calculation.  That's what most folks do anyway.

[[...]]

Well I felt the same way last week.

I tapered too fast and had to hold.

I was wondering when the withdrawals would ease up so I could continue my taper.

It took 8 weeks but I am now feeling better.

Was it just time - perhaps.

But also, 5 days ago, I started a very low dose of buspar (3.75mg) every other day and maybe that is what is getting me stable.

See this link http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=201176.0

 

[[Wo...]]

I am super close to starting the DLMT. I have the math am getting supplies today and double checked how to measure everything out with the local, friendly compounding pharmacist.

 

Last question: I am using .5 mg pills and my starting ml is 6.74 ml out of 100 ml that I’ll be using for the solution. That’s a lot of medication to throw away daily. Is there a way to save that medication for future days and retain the integrity of the solution? Does that make sense?

 

I saw a YouTube video where he was at the same dose and pill mg as I and he was throwing the remainder in the sink. There must be another way.

 

I am most likely going to try first with almond or whole

Milk.

 

Thanks to all who’ve helped so far and to anyone in advance who can chime in on this.

[[Aj...]]

Well I felt the same way last week.

I tapered too fast and had to hold.

I was wondering when the withdrawals would ease up so I could continue my taper.

It took 8 weeks but I am now feeling better.

Was it just time - perhaps.

But also, 5 days ago, I started a very low dose of buspar (3.75mg) every other day and maybe that is what is getting me stable.

See this link http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=201176.0

 

I haven’t had a window since November - taking it again does ease some symptoms.

I’m terrified of going back through all I went through again. I hope that doesn’t happen.

[[bu...]]

I am super close to starting the DLMT. I have the math am getting supplies today and double checked how to measure everything out with the local, friendly compounding pharmacist.

 

Last question: I am using .5 mg pills and my starting ml is 6.74 ml out of 100 ml that I’ll be using for the solution. That’s a lot of medication to throw away daily. Is there a way to save that medication for future days and retain the integrity of the solution? Does that make sense?

I saw a YouTube video where he was at the same dose and pill mg as I and he was throwing the remainder in the sink. There must be another way.

 

I am most likely going to try first with almond or whole

Milk.

 

Thanks to all who’ve helped so far and to anyone in advance who can chime in on this.

 

Certainly!

 

Make enough liquid to last a week-10 days, then just draw out your dose and take it.  Put the bottle back on the shelf and then do the same thing for the next dose.

 

I know there are all those "pull and discard" videos on youtube ("...nasty drug water down the drain),  But pull and discard is the silliest way  to take a med I ever heard of.

 

If your doc gave you a scrip for a liquid med, you would pull/pour your dose from the container, take it, and put the container back until th next dose.  You do the same with your liquid benzo.  Its just another liquid med.

[[...]]

I am super close to starting the DLMT. I have the math am getting supplies today and double checked how to measure everything out with the local, friendly compounding pharmacist.

 

Last question: I am using .5 mg pills and my starting ml is 6.74 ml out of 100 ml that I’ll be using for the solution. That’s a lot of medication to throw away daily. Is there a way to save that medication for future days and retain the integrity of the solution? Does that make sense?

 

I saw a YouTube video where he was at the same dose and pill mg as I and he was throwing the remainder in the sink. There must be another way.

 

I am most likely going to try first with almond or whole

Milk.

 

Thanks to all who’ve helped so far and to anyone in advance who can chime in on this.

 

Wonderwomen23,

 

ABSOLUTELY there is a way to save from throwing away so much medicine.  It is what your scientist friend intended.  It took me a while to understand her procedure but I get it now.  Here is what she intended...

 

After you mix the 0.5mg with 1 mL vodka and 99 mL water (or milk) you have 100 mL.

 

She says to take 6.8 mL as your first day's dose.

 

NOW DO NOT THROW AWAY THE REMAINING 93.2 mL.  Instead, put in the refrigerator.

 

On day 2, stir it up and use your syringe to get the next dose of 6.74mL and put the rest back in the refrigerator.

 

On day 3, stir it up and use your syringe to get the next dose of 6.70mL and put the rest back in the refrigerator.

 

Continue this (follow her chart) until you run out.  At this point, then make another batch using one more 0.5mg tablet with 1 mL vodka and 99 mL water (or milk).

 

This is why she says you will only need a total of 4 tablets.

 

Please note - I would use water because milk might spoil during the 14 days it take to finish up the mixture.

 

[[Wo...]]

That’s awesome builder thanks.

 

So.. I just left the medical supply store and it seems I now have everything I need to start tonight.

 

Is there anything else I should know to prepare mentally for this?

 

I am aware that some people either take to it like duck to water or they simply can’t. My hopes and dreams are that I’ll tolerate it well.

 

I did liquid through a compounding pharmacy months ago and it hit me like a ton of bricks came on hard and fast and I had a massive bad reaction paranoid waves the whole 9. I probably did something wrong in the dose.

 

So... any last words?

 

Thanks again everyone!!

[[Wo...]]

Thanks Bob got it! That makes sense. Since I won’t be using alcohol I have heard to use milk or almond milk because of the fat to help bond with the medication. I think almond milk is less perishable.

 

Well here goes!

[[...]]

Thanks Bob got it! That makes sense. Since I won’t be using alcohol I have heard to use milk or almond milk because of the fat to help bond with the medication. I think almond milk is less perishable.

 

Well here goes!

Oh, if almond milk lasts 15 days, then no worries.

 

However, I still think you need the 1 mL of Vodka because benzodiazepine are not water (or milk) soluble.  While it is true the milk fat will help suspense the benzo, it will not break down the pill.  So if you don't use Vodka as an agent, I think you should let it sit for 24 hours so the pill breaks down in the almond milk. 

 

Builder - what say you?

 

[[bu...]]

That’s awesome builder thanks.

 

So.. I just left the medical supply store and it seems I now have everything I need to start tonight.

Is there anything else I should know to prepare mentally for this?

 

I am aware that some people either take to it like duck to water or they simply can’t. My hopes and dreams are that I’ll tolerate it well.

 

I did liquid through a compounding pharmacy months ago and it hit me like a ton of bricks came on hard and fast and I had a massive bad reaction paranoid waves the whole 9. I probably did something wrong in the dose.

 

So... any last words?

 

Thanks again everyone!!

 

Just keep in mind that doing a liquid taper is not really a big deal, and there is no reason to think there will be any problem. 

 

You will still be taking the same med.  And taking a benzo liquid is no different than taking any other liquid med.

 

And if you actually do begin to experience any difficulty, make an adjustment.  You can slow down, hold, whatever you need to do.

 

There are no decisions or actions in a taper that are permanent.

[[Ca...]]

WW..

well done... you will do fine..!!

Best wishes..!!