Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[de...]]

USMC2532,

 

Don't be discouraged, you're not an idiot, and you'll be fine, really.  Just need to take a breath and go over this, then you'll get it, really.  Meanwhile, just hold your current dose, until you figure out what to do, which will be very soon. 

 

Do go read over my 2 prior posts, then Jim Hawk's post, and then think about this: 

 

You originally said your plan was to reduce 10% every 14 days, which came out to doing 0.02mg reductions each day.  But you also said that you thought you just needed to reduce your doses by 0.02mg per day until the end of taper.  So it looks like you were actually NOT doing 10% reduction every 14 days, but RATHER 0.02mg reduction every day.  That means you will run into large reductions as your dose gets lower, which is likely why you're being hit with increased symptoms now. 

 

You've been cutting 0.02mg each day without any recalculations, so you were doing a "Fixed Quantity Reduction" without recalculations.  What you can do now is cut 10% each day WITH recalculations every 14 days, so that you'd be doing a "Fixed Percent Reduction" with recalculations. 

 

For that, you'd take your current dose, figure 10% of it, then divide that by 14 days, to get amounts to reduce each day, like this:

 

1.4mg x 10% = 0.14mg [reduction amount]

0.14mg / 14 days = 0.01mg [reduction amount per day]

 

Day 1    1.4 - 0.01 = 1.39

Day 2    1.39 - 0.01 = 1.38

Day 3    1.38 - 0.01 = 1.37

and so on until

Day 14  1.27 - 0.01 = 1.26

 

Now, for the next 14-day period, you recalculate, using your ending dose from the prior 14-day period as your new basis to calculate cuts and doses. 

 

1.26mg x 10% = 0.126mg [new reduction amount]

0.126 mg / 14 days = 0.009mg [new reduction amount per day]

 

Day 15    1.26 - 0.009 = 1.251

Day 16    1.251 - 0.009 = 1.242

Day 17    1.242 - 0.009 = 1.233

and so on until

Day 28    1.143 - 0.009 = 1.134

 

Recalculate as above, for the next 14-day period, using 1.134 as your new basis. 

 

This way, your reduction amount will decrease as your dose decreases, though you're still cutting by 10%.  That is, your cuts are becoming finer.  And you reduce daily, but recalculate every 14 days by 10%.  (Of course, you can vary the % and # of days as needed according to how your symptoms respond.)

 

Once you understand this concept, you can use Jim Hawk's taper program to generate all the numbers for you, so you don't actually have to do the calculations if you don't want. 

 

Hopefully, JH will chime in here and correct me if I'm steering you wrong   

[[Ul...]]

Gee! All of this math has reminded me of how messed up my brain is from all of this. Loooooong way to go

 

Jeff

[[US...]]

Thanks delta1    Another question.  Since I’m splitting into 5 doses throughout the day...What do you do when you get so low that you can’t do that anymore?  Since I’m doing a LT..my doses are already around only 2.8ml  a dose.  I wish I could switch to Diazepam...but he won’t do it. 

I really appreciate the time you took to help me out and break it down for me.  I obsessively worry and think about things so much that it actually keeps me from thinking clearly.  I never used to be this way. 

[[Wo...]]

Just had a mini breakdown in my pdocs office.

 

I had him use Jim Hawks app but looking at all rtnose numbers and neither he nor I really understanding how to do a DLMT I felt SO dumb, confused and impaired. I left feeling way worse than when i went in

 

I could really use help. I am almost about to give up and just stay on cut and hold. None of this is making sense.

 

Are there videos to explain? I am now at .033 and have .5 mg pills of klonopin.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help with the math and to explain how to do the actual titration.

 

 

 

 

[[Ca...]]

Hey WW..

I pill split, so have forgotten the math n stuff...

But what I did was get a pen and paper, and I picked through Builders posts...

it all came together from different angles... My brain has to work things out, not be told told..

I have been away some time, so im not sure what Builder has posted in the last 10 mths...??

Just keep at it...

 

[[Wo...]]

I think my issue is I don’t understand how the .5 mg pill after getting crushed and put in water or milk  then turns into my .033 mg dose in ml? Then what happens to the rest of the solution? I understand that I can reduce by 1 ml per day. It’s the initial startup that is confusing the heck out of me

 

Phew

 

Thanks!

[[de...]]

Thanks delta1    Another question.  Since I’m splitting into 5 doses throughout the day...What do you do when you get so low that you can’t do that anymore?  Since I’m doing a LT..my doses are already around only 2.8ml  a dose.  I wish I could switch to Diazepam...but he won’t do it. 

I really appreciate the time you took to help me out and break it down for me.  I obsessively worry and think about things so much that it actually keeps me from thinking clearly.  I never used to be this way.

 

Hi, USMC2532 - Not a problem, hope things are clearer for you now.  When your doses get too low to split into multiple doses, you can start dropping doses.  If it were me, I'd tailor that process to what my day is like usually, dropping the "easier" doses first.  So let's say you have a harder time in the morning, or at night, whichever, and your symptoms aren't as bad during the daytime.  Then pick a daytime dose, drop that, divide the daily dosage into 4 doses instead of 5, space them out through the day appropriately when taking.  When your daily dose gets too low again, drop another dose, divide the daily dosage into 3 doses instead of 4, and so on. 

[[Gr...]]

Wonderwoman,  If you dissolve your .5 tablet into 100ml of milk (I don't crush it first, I just let the tablet dissolve in a measured amount of 100ml of milk), 

you get .005mg = 1ml.

 

So taking 7 ml, would be .035mg, 7X.005 = .035mg

Or taking 6ml, would be .030mg, 6X.005 = .030mg

 

You can keep all that you don't use, in the fridge.  It stays good as long as the milk stay good, so for about a week.  I usually just keep mine in a jar in the fridge and use up most of it, and dump the rest down the drain. 

 

Someone please check my math, for Wonderwoman. 

[Guest [...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

[[le...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

[Guest [...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

Thanks Lemon. You've confirmed my gut instinct on this one. I'll leave it a week then resume if all is well.

Cheers

Staz

[[Ca...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

Thanks Lemon. You've confirmed my gut instinct on this one. I'll leave it a week then resume if all is well.

Cheers

Staz

Yes, a good idea... -or gut instinct...

-I must agree with lemon too...

Best wishes..!!

 

[[Su...]]

I think my issue is I don’t understand how the .5 mg pill after getting crushed and put in water or milk  then turns into my .033 mg dose in ml? Then what happens to the rest of the solution? I understand that I can reduce by 1 ml per day. It’s the initial startup that is confusing the heck out of me

 

Phew

 

Thanks!

Hi WW

I’ve been wondering how you’re doing. Did the hold help at all in the end?

Glad that others have chimed in on the math for LT.  I find it a really good way for me to go— when I’m done with this hold.

😊SS

[Guest [...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

Thanks Cantfly,

Would a week be long enough as the total elimination time of valium is 3 weeks?

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

Thanks Lemon. You've confirmed my gut instinct on this one. I'll leave it a week then resume if all is well.

Cheers

Staz

Yes, a good idea... -or gut instinct...

-I must agree with lemon too...

Best wishes..!!

[[US...]]

Thanks again delta1...I’m looking through the other recent posts and wondering if I might be doing it wrong all together.  This is my plan that was given to me for a 10 day batch.

 

1mg=2ml of PG=8ml of water.  So my current batch has 20mg Xanax-40ml PG-160ml Water

 

I’m currently at 1.39mg or 13.90 ml of solution a day.  I divide it into 5 doses now and it becomes less than 3ml each dose.  Which is not a lot considering the dose I mean still on.  Since I’m still on a considerable dose...when I get below 1mg it will become so small that interdose will be a factor.  Am I overthinking this?

 

Would I be able to just keep the amount of pills the same and increase the PG and water amount so I can disperse it more?  Does the amount of PG and/or water affect the concentration of Benzo?

 

Thanks to anyone that can help!  builder, are you out there? 

 

[[bu...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

With a daily microtaper, cuts will NOT "sneak up on you".  Sxs, if any, will emerge gradually, and corrective action can be taken.

 

If you are not significantly symptomatic, there is no reason to hold.  It will unnecessarily slow your progress.

[[bu...]]

 

Would I be able to just keep the amount of pills the same and increase the PG and water amount so I can disperse it more?  Does the amount of PG and/or water affect the concentration of Benzo?

Thanks to anyone that can help!  builder, are you out there?

 

Nope.

[[le...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

With a daily microtaper, cuts will NOT "sneak up on you".  Sxs, if any, will emerge gradually, and corrective action can be taken.

 

That does not entirely correspond to my experience.

 

[[Ca...]]

As a micro taper begginer I've been cutting since the 3rd April and my 12mg V a day is now 11.5mg per day. Due to hit 11mg on the 24th April. So far so good.

 

Once I reach 11mg should I give it a week before resuming with the tapper form 11mg to 10mg?

Cheers

Staz

 

You might. Valium cuts can sneak up on you. Holding for a few days is perfectly sensible.

 

With a daily microtaper, cuts will NOT "sneak up on you".  Sxs, if any, will emerge gradually, and corrective action can be taken.

 

That does not entirely correspond to my experience.

Just drop over to The Long Hold Suppurt Group, and one will see plenty of micros that need some holds. Either regularly, or on the odd occasion...

I feel its about finding the right taper speed to match ones healing ability...

A little hold in the early stages, to see what follows, if anything, -will only build confidence, or help avoid further Compounded SX...

Sure, if all is going dandy, as one gets into their micro, it is possible to adjust on the fly.. But it takes other learned skills, like recognising SX and situations that might upset a taper..

-And remembering that SOME people come off these meds with little to no problems... But thats NOT everyones experience...

Does it hurt to play it a little safe at the start..?? -Each to their own...

 

[[US...]]

 

Would I be able to just keep the amount of pills the same and increase the PG and water amount so I can disperse it more?  Does the amount of PG and/or water affect the concentration of Benzo?

Thanks to anyone that can help!  builder, are you out there?

 

Nope.

 

Okay, so just so I made clear.  Say I’m doing my next batch.  I’m going to use 1.5mg pills a day. 

10 day batch=15 mg.  15mg=30ml PG and I can add 270ml water?  As long as I calculate the amount of mg in each ml?  IE....05mg/1ml.  So my dose for that day would be 27 ml. 

 

I think I’m getting it...but just wanted to make sure since this doesn’t go with the 1mg=2ml PG=8ml water.  I’m keeping the PG calculation the same and just mixing in more water with the batch.  Thanks

[[la...]]

Hi, Daily Micro-Tapering Buddies!

 

I just noticed I hit the 10.96 mg/ml mark with Librium today.

 

Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this method. It has really saved me. I started school again. What is crazy is that my brain can now retain information better than before benzos.

 

I know there are not a lot of people on Librium, but just in case if anyone is searching, it IS stable in solution. It so far has remained stable for two months in my fridge. Find a good compounding pharmacy. It has been a lifesaver.

 

Lora

[[bu...]]

 

Would I be able to just keep the amount of pills the same and increase the PG and water amount so I can disperse it more?  Does the amount of PG and/or water affect the concentration of Benzo?

Thanks to anyone that can help!  builder, are you out there?

 

Nope.

 

Okay, so just so I made clear.  Say I’m doing my next batch.  I’m going to use 1.5mg pills a day. 

10 day batch=15 mg.  15mg=30ml PG and I can add 270ml water?  As long as I calculate the amount of mg in each ml?  IE....05mg/1ml.  So my dose for that day would be 27 ml. 

 

I think I’m getting it...but just wanted to make sure since this doesn’t go with the 1mg=2ml PG=8ml water.  I’m keeping the PG calculation the same and just mixing in more water with the batch.  Thanks

 

1)  1mg of benzo will still be 1 mg, no matter what you do to it.

 

2)  Your formula will work, but 15mg + 30ml PG + 120ml water  makes it much easier to do calculations.  That would be a .1mg per ml solution.  All you do is move the decimal to convert mg to ml.

[[4G...]]

Hi. I want to start tapering Lyrica. I am on 2 x 75mg per day. I've been told that it dissolves in water, unlike my diazepam, which required a vodka taper.

 

My question is, if I empty one 75mg capsule into water, how much water should I use?

 

Thanks.

[[US...]]

 

Would I be able to just keep the amount of pills the same and increase the PG and water amount so I can disperse it more?  Does the amount of PG and/or water affect the concentration of Benzo?

Thanks to anyone that can help!  builder, are you out there?

 

Thanks builder as always 

 

Nope.

 

Okay, so just so I made clear.  Say I’m doing my next batch.  I’m going to use 1.5mg pills a day. 

10 day batch=15 mg.  15mg=30ml PG and I can add 270ml water?  As long as I calculate the amount of mg in each ml?  IE....05mg/1ml.  So my dose for that day would be 27 ml. 

 

I think I’m getting it...but just wanted to make sure since this doesn’t go with the 1mg=2ml PG=8ml water.  I’m keeping the PG calculation the same and just mixing in more water with the batch.  Thanks

 

1)  1mg of benzo will still be 1 mg, no matter what you do to it.

 

2)  Your formula will work, but 15mg + 30ml PG + 120ml water  makes it much easier to do calculations.  That would be a .1mg per ml solution.  All you do is move the decimal to convert mg to ml.

[[Wo...]]

Hi greencup and SS thanks for following up with me.

 

I am doing better after holding! I was much more clear headed this week and able to socialize and even saw a client which was hard but I did it.

 

Greencup I so appreciate you doing that math and would love a second opinion and also what would the daily titration be? If I’m doing 7 ml to start?

 

It’s coming together!