18 - 30 Month Plus Group

[[Co...]]

FJ...I disagree with your advising people not to see their ohysicians. To see or not to see a physician is an individual and personal decision. Many bbs find that checking in with their physician to monitor sx and progress is reassuring and supportive..  as well, no everything is always w/d....Others do better not seeing a physician....but none of us are in a po 's it in to advise anyone not to consult a phydician. Admim. specifically bans giving medical advice. Telling anyone to not go see their physician who knows less than we do is giving medical advice.  .........coop

[[Fi...]]

FJ...I disagree with your advising people not to see their ohysicians. To see or not to see a physician is an individual and personal decision. Many bbs find that checking in with their physician to monitor sx and progress is reassuring and supportive..  as well, no everything is always w/d....Others do better not seeing a physician....but none of us are in a po 's it in to advise anyone not to consult a phydician. Admim. specifically bans giving medical advice. Telling anyone to not go see their physician who knows less than we do is giving medical advice.  .........coop

 

Well, Coop, obviously everybody gets to make their own personal decision about whether to go to the doctor, but with all the people urging people to see a physician on here, despite the very limited evidence of anyone ever learning anything that helps their recovery, I hardly think it's a problem for me to be articulating an opposing view.  And my view on this is not just from my own experience but from a couple of years of reading stories of people being urged to see the doctor, agonizing over what will happen at the doctor's, trying to recover from the stress of the doctor and then uncovering NOTHING that changes the course of their withdrawal.

 

You and I both seem to be getting well.  You, however, chose to go to the doctor at every turn, it seems.  Would you want to compare medical bills for people who are trying to figure out what path of healing they might choose?  I spent $200 for a one time consult with an addiction doctor and checked in with my PCP to make sure my thyroid numbers were staying in line.  THAT'S IT. Oh, and of course I went to the doc when I broke my ankle.  I'm not an idiot.

 

Your trade has always been constant encouragement of people.  Not a bad thing by any means, but to me, it seems the best thing we can give others is to heal and then explain how we managed that.  My story is that I chose to turn my back on chasing every zebra of a symptom, believe that it was all just withdrawal, and heal.  Are you suggesting I shouldn't be reporting that to people?  I just don't accept that somehow your story is more valid than mine.

 

And now that I think of it, are you only come back to this thread to make sure I'm not getting out of line?

 

 

[[Co...]]

FJ...my point wasn't about my story or your story.  It was about the inappropriateness of advising anyone that they don't need to see a physician "who knows less than they do and will bill them for their lack of knowledge"....Many bbs by choice do not see their physicians throughout w/d....many do see their physicians and specialists. It is not within our scope to tell anyone that they don't need to see their physician.

......coop

 

[[Fi...]]

One more little self-healing tip here that requires no drugs or doctors.  Whenever a personally attacking post like Coop's makes my blood pressure spike, I just jump on my mini-trampoline.  One episode of How I Met Your Mother (highly recommended!) brings me nicely back into line. 

[[dr...]]

Blue moon-I wasn't aggravated by your post at all and please keep posting.  I was just saying what I've noticed here after four years and my personal experience.  In addition, I'd suggest staying with the low histamine dirt.  It's working and while I believe the withdrawal brought it on or made it worse it's still an issue for you.  It's similar to me taking propranolol and cutting out gluten to try and alleviate my migraines.  I know they're a hundred times worse than before tapering so I'm on them for now.  Carry on.

[[Bl...]]

Drew--glad I didn't cause any aggravation. I don't want to cause anyone any stress because that is the last thing any of us needs 

Women "of a certain age" (not all, of course) seem to have problems with histamine--there is a definite histamine/estrogen relationship. High histamine circulating around the body can have some bad effects. Whether it is withdrawal related or hormone-induced--or maybe both, I don't know as of yet. I did have food intolerances and developed an autoimmune disease pre-benzo, so it is hard to sort out what is causing what. Benzo withdrawal does seem to magnify pre-existing problems, at least in my case.

[[dr...]]

I believe benzo withdrawal goes after and temporarily makes worse anything we've had or were predisposed to.  In my case panic, anxiety, and migraines.  My panic and anxiety when not in the depths of a wave are better than ever in my life.  This makes me confident the migraines and head stuff will follow and I'll be better than ever health wise.  Both physically and mentally.  Stills a way off though.

[[ci...]]

Hi All, seems we are all a little edgy today. I understand what coop is saying, it is important to check out some symptoms and see a doctor. But I understand exactly what FJ is saying also. I saw 12 specialists during tolerance WD, out of pocket expenses were $64,000, and I lost my healthy gallbladder, too, because of the lack of knowledge of doctors. But I also recently had to undergo medical testing due to blood in urine and bladder spasms and back pain just to rule out possible medical issues (CT Scan, Ultrasound, blood work) all tests were negative, but it gave me peace of mind that I know it is just WD.

 

I have never found a doctor who believed I was in tolerance WD or WD,  my doctors are not supportive thru this process.

 

Blue moon, do what is best for you, you are welcome here no matter what your beliefs are. Drew has a good heart, he was just sharing his personal experience with you, that's all.

 

Coop and FJ, chill out....I love ya both, I have had some very dark times and reading your posts got me thru.

 

Always, cindy

[[Co...]]

BlueMoon....if others send vibes of aggravation...it is not you. Keep posting like Drew says. This forum is for unconditional support. The key being " unconditional" and support.

    The first year that I was on the forum I was on night and day with health fear and panics....NOBODY...nobody expressed any irritation over it. I had a cabinet full of homeopathics, supplements and vitamins. Over time I realized that for me they were not heling ...but I came to that realization in my own time and it took a long time. On the other hand some bbs find that some supplements etc do help them. At month 27.5 ..this is what I know....every day is its own reality....the only way I got through this was to take it one day at a time and do the best that I could with that given day. There is no wrong or right way to heal...you just keep going . 

  I hope you continue to find caring support here and have enough sunbreaks along the way to get you from one month to the next.....coop

[[Bl...]]

Thanks Coop, Cindys, and Drew--I do feel this is a wonderful place for support--I don't think I did aggravate anyone, but I didn't want to stress anyone out with my ramblings.  And I know I have gone overboard with supplements in the past trying to find a solution. I get excited when something actually helps and I feel better in some aspect!  But I know we are all different genetically and how we handle things. I will try to restrain myself from posting all kinds of supplement research stuff because what works for me may or may not work for someone else.

I am actually feeling some improvement today despite not getting a decent night's sleep, again. The anxiety has lifted and the brain fog not as bad. Was having a return of some fibromyalgia-like symptoms over the past few weeks and that has improved some too! Baby steps.....

[[Fi...]]

Thanks Coop, Cindys, and Drew--I do feel this is a wonderful place for support--I don't think I did aggravate anyone, but I didn't want to stress anyone out with my ramblings.  And I know I have gone overboard with supplements in the past trying to find a solution. I get excited when something actually helps and I feel better in some aspect! But I know we are all different genetically and how we handle things. I will try to restrain myself from posting all kinds of supplement research stuff because what works for me may or may not work for someone else.

I am actually feeling some improvement today despite not getting a decent night's sleep, again. The anxiety has lifted and the brain fog not as bad. Was having a return of some fibromyalgia-like symptoms over the past few weeks and that has improved some too! Baby steps.....

 

Of course you get excited when something seems to help!  This is the placebo effect and the placebo effect is NOT NOTHING.  You might want to check out some of the recent books on the subject such as You Are the Placebo and a brand new one I'm just now reading called Cure: a Journey into the Science of Mind Over Body by Jo Marchant.  Marchant is a serious journalist taking a hard look at how harnessing the placebo effect can help us and just what its limitations are.

 

When you are searching through supplements, of course you're desperately trying to find something that will help.  That's completely normal.  But nobody here has come up with the magic pill or, as its been put repeatedly, it would be all over the BB board like wildfire.  According to this book, it might do you just as much good to develop some healing rituals that involve self-care and then just stick to them.  Addict yourself to doing yoga every day.  You tell yourself you are stiff but you KNOW that doing the yoga will make you feel better.  And then, darned if it doesn't!

 

For some people, if they can manage it, an exercise routine is their placebo.  The point is just to find something that initially makes you feel a little bit better, then BELIEVE that it will help you and feed your brain positive vibes by continuing with it.

 

Although people on other threads have argued for "realism" as a cure, I'm a much bigger fan of trying to tell myself the best story possible.  Just fake myself out. 

 

Right now I'm going out to walk in the morning light.  Somebody had some study about why this is so healing.  I don't need to know all the particulars, I just know I've done it on occasion with dramatic results.  I will believe in that.  It's something good for me and healing so I go do it.  And my brain gets positive hits from watching me heal myself!

[[so...]]

Hi Buddies!

 

Well, these past two weeks were really different for sure.  14 pages straight out of the acute playbook.

 

The past 4 days have been just plain weird.  Instead of 8 hours of steady glutamate storms of hell all day, the torture broke up into 2-3 hour periods 2-3 times a day.  Then yesterday, no storm, and today, so far, one early morning small storm of decreased intensity.

 

What this all means I have no clue.  What I do know is that things are changing.  My dear friend, Pattylu, says it is proof my brain and CNS are getting some things right.  I am healing.  We will all recover from this in time. 

 

Bluemoon, like Drew and Coop, I could also have opened up a general store stocked with supplements.  All kinds.  In the first 8-9 months, magnesium was my go to supplement.  I only tried one pill from each of the other 25 bottles I bought of various voodoo hoodoo supplements because they made me feel worse in one way or another.  I can't open up a general store because I eventually trashed them all.  I, like you, was frantic for answers to fix my symptoms, googling and searching through forum posts daily for solutions.  I didn't find any.  It sounds like you have found a few things that have helped you and that's great.  We are all so different. 

 

What I think everyone is saying, in a nutshell, is that everyone has to find his or her own path through the thorny bramble and hot coals of this process.  We all emerge eventually with some scrapes and burns that have been incurred but it will all go away someday with no ultimate solution discovered but time.  You will probably find that even symptoms that were prior to Benzo withdrawal will disappear as well because your body is in the process of healing EVERYTHING in your body, not just the damage from benzos.

 

Acceptance is the hardest thing to achieve in all this because we are human and we believe the answers are there but we just haven't found them yet.  Accepting that time is the only answer is so tough because we don't even know how much time it's going to take and our minds go to the worst case scenario.....FOREVER.  I know it seems like it's permanent, but thousands of healed people tell us it is temporary and we will all recover 100%.  Healed people who write success stories have no reason to lie.  We will all heal when our brains and CNS are working together in harmony.

 

These last two weeks have been hell on wheels for me.  Now I have hope and I see the healing.  I have no idea what the rest of the day or next week will bring, but I will keep trudging forward until it's over.  So will you.

 

Love, Sofa

[[Bl...]]

Finallyjoining and Sofa,

There probably is something to the placebo effect. I have a routine of walking every day and I look forward to it so much. A few months ago I barely had enough energy to walk but I did it anyway. My goal is to some day get back to running like I was last year.

So good to hear you are seeing some signs of healing! Today I am seeing some signs as well after about a 3 month wave. I will be 2 years off on March 28. It has been a long difficult journey and I know it has been for everyone on these forums.

The last few months I have been guilty of thoughts that this must be permanent and wondering if I will ever heal. I was about 75% healed and then this huge wave hit and I felt like all the healing had been erased. But reading many posts from others, many times people have said that often after a bad wave that a lot of healing is taking place. So I am looking at it as just that--it may be my CNS is undergoing a huge bit of healing in the past 3 months. You are so right that it helps to have healing rituals.

Enjoy your walks in the sun! 

[[Fi...]]

Bluemoon--there is absolutely no question the placebo effect is for real.  I've always believed in it, but now scientific studies are proving it.  But while the word used to be used to mean that the person who'd gotten better on a placebo was some kind of fool and wasn't really sick anyway, they're now understanding that no, it means that the placebo effect helped that person's brain help herself.

 

Everybody here has plenty of times of feeling that surely they are permanently damaged, but that's just not the reality.  Just giving it time in the way that makes it the least stressful for you seems to be the best solution.

[[Bl...]]

Finallyjoining--I do get a positive feeling when I take the supplements that I believe are helping. For me it has been part of the healing process and one of my personal healing rituals. I have also begun "grounding" which, at first, sounds like a bunch of new age crap. But when I read the science behind it, it makes sense. Maybe it is a bunch of crap, but, again, it could be helping in a placebo sense or at a very real cellular level. Going to keep doing it now that it is warming up enough outside.

I have had to radically change my life--cut WAY back on some things that I used to do or scaled back. I cut back as much as I could and not completely end some things that I truly love and give meaning and purpose to my life. Also had to change my diet--did not think it was possible for me to eat a healthier diet than I was last year. Really had to take a step back and look at all the stressors in my life and figure out how to cut out as much as possible. This process really changes a person. I definitely operate at a different speed now! Love, Blue 

[[Fi...]]

Oh yes, Blue, I have changed so much the way I live.  Used to be so A type.  Now I really get the drift about living in the moment. 

 

I say, if you think grounding is helping you, it IS helping you.  Just keep on keeping on. 

[[Bl...]]

Finallyjoining,

I wasn't a typical type A corporate ladder type, but I used to be very driven and a bit of a perfectionist. Not any more--I know what you mean about living in the moment. I let things go now that I would not have in the past. I strive to live in a very Zen way now.

Do you feel that you are making headway in the healing process? I saw from your signature that you jumped in 2013--so you are further along than I am. I do hope that you are feeling better! 

[[Fi...]]

Oh yeah, Blue, I'm pretty much healed.  I actually posted my success story last June.  But the physical symptoms just don't want to be gone for good quite yet, I guess.  They just keep circling around, but always diminishing in intensity.  I've had a lot of excellent days, but I really have no choice but to keep playing it one day at a time, trying to make that day the best I can. The main thing that's missing is the feeling that I can go ahead and make long range plans that involve other people.  Fortunately, I have lots of projects right here at home on our farm, so I'm getting really good at just going for it whenever I can!   And if I crash the day after I've had a good, energetic day, I never ever think I've brought it on myself by overdoing it.  I always just try to get away with as much as I can, WHEN I can.

[[Bl...]]

I don't make any long-range plans either yet--I have some friends that I have made over the past years, but I have felt the need to keep up kind of a wall because of the anxiety and other withdrawal symptoms.

I also have a farm--an urban micro-farm! I grow organic produce and it really has been a big part of my healing process--having work that is meaningful for me. Already gearing up getting ready for spring. I just hope I have enough energy for another farmers market season.

So good to hear you have healed for the most part. It gives me hope. I don't really feel that I have had many emotional symptoms--mine have been mainly just disturbing horrible physical symptoms. I think I am actually in a window of sorts today---best I have felt in about 3 months. But then the recent ER visit bill came the other day and the cardiologist bill. This last wave has been so awful that I ended up going to get lots of scary physical symptoms checked out and now we are going to have to pay the price. I would estimate that my benzo  withdrawal has probably cost us close to $5,000 so far. Just crazy 

[[Fi...]]

Hey, that's cool about your micro-farm.  We used to run our whole place as a u-pick fruit and vegetable farm but now it's planted to trees and my husband just does big gardens and orchards for our own use.  I have fond memories of going to the farmers market and selling fall raspberries.

 

Don't beat yourself up about those doctors visits.  The heart stuff can be really scary and when that hit me way far out I realized why people run to the ER.  It's a very scary symptom.  But now that you've gone and you've had it checked out, next time that comes around again (and sorry, but it very well may) it'll be a little easier to hold back from the ER. 

[[Ba...]]

Bluemoon,

 

My benzo withdrawal problems have cost us $250,000. 

[[Bl...]]

Bailey--Not only is benzo withdrawal draining for our bodies, it drains our bank accounts as well. I probably underestimated the total financial damage that benzo withdrawal has done to us, but it is nowhere near what it has cost you. I am so sorry for the financial toll on you--it is a horrible nightmare for sure.

[[...]]

First day back at work after a week off and its been full of anxiety. I've had worse days, but I am so fed up of feeling fragile and afraid of what could 'set me off' and just generally afraid. Yesterday I had the worst head and neck pressure in have had in ages. Things have eased off a bit for now and I'm heading home to finish the birthday cake I have made for my son. I usually really enjoy doing things like this, hopefully once I get into it I will.

 

Has anyone else been feeling intense anger feelings? I really don't like it.

 

 

[[Te...]]

Sorry marj.......enjoy the cake

 

I don't have intense anger....I have the feeling of wanting to jump out of my body.....the darn pain....makes to feel like this....and today the itchy bug crawling on my skin or under my skin....this goes away for weeks and weeks....then comes back.....grrrrrr

But I wish I could settle my nerves down....I hate this feeling of wanting to run away from myself...its so sad.....I feel this.....and it makes sadder hearing it ....

Enjoy the cake......

Hugs!

TM

[[Mi...]]

Marj, Yes to the anger...  I had some anger show up a little while back.  Although I welcomed it! It was nice to feel another emotion rather than fear.  Although, it did stress me out abit because I am not a angry person at all. And, it seems at least for me any emotion I have seems to be well kinda heightened.  So it brings on stress, for me at least. I think it's all normal part of our journey. 

 

Texas, the bug feeling. Omg I almost forgot about that Sx. I hated that one as well...  Hope your mouth pain has let up a bit!

 

I am still trucking along.  I have a major cold/cough/sinus thingy going on.  But NOT complaining as it doesn't come close to any kinda benzo wd Sx!

All and all still feeling close to 90%.  Had a good wknd away at my sons hockey tourney. Although I noticed my stress response is still in need of some fine tuning.  They were playing for district champs and to move on to regionals. So it was a intense game and I almost had to leave.  I was so nervous and stressed for our boys, lol.  My heart rate was Btwn 90/110 the entire game! I have a Fitbit, not quiet sure if that's good or not, ha! Anyways my body is still reacting stronger than before during certain stressors ect...  But other than that had no problems being away for another wknd....  I even drove down the freeway.  Again I was a little shaky and nervous but it went ok other than that.  Still taking those darn baby steps.....

 

 

Hugs,