Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

I thought you wanted to reduce and hold a month and then reduce and hold a month and so on.

 

So you want to reduce 5% per month by reducing a little each day?

[[...]]

Here is a chart to reduce you 5% in a month by making a small reduction each day:

 

Day Weight (g)

0 0.3360

1 0.3354

2 0.3349

3 0.3343

4 0.3338

5 0.3332

6 0.3326

7 0.3321

8 0.3315

9 0.3310

10 0.3304

11 0.3298

12 0.3293

13 0.3287

14 0.3282

15 0.3276

16 0.3270

17 0.3265

18 0.3259

19 0.3254

20 0.3248

21 0.3242

22 0.3237

23 0.3231

24 0.3226

25 0.3220

26 0.3214

27 0.3209

28 0.3203

29 0.3198

30 0.3192

31 0.3186

 

[[Ma...]]

Thank you so much !!!  I appreciate your help!

[[...]]

Let me know when you are ready for month 2 and I will recompute. 

I pray the best for you.

[[Ma...]]

Ok. Thank you Bob.

[[Fr...]]

Bob

Anyway you have an equation to help me figure how many pills I need based on taper rate to finish off my taper? Thank you

[[...]]

Bob

Anyway you have an equation to help me figure how many pills I need based on taper rate to finish off my taper? Thank you

In our earlier email exchange, I wrote:

 

You will need a total of 866 pills to do your 0.0008 g per day reduction taper.

You might want to just get a total of 1000 pills to account for spillage and if you want to a hold during holidays.

 

You indicated you thought you could get more from the doctor.

 

Do you still want an equation?

[[Ul...]]

Bob

Anyway you have an equation to help me figure how many pills I need based on taper rate to finish off my taper? Thank you

In our earlier email exchange, I wrote:

 

You will need a total of 866 pills to do your 0.0008 g per day reduction taper.

You might want to just get a total of 1000 pills to account for spillage and if you want to a hold during holidays.

 

You indicated you thought you could get more from the doctor.

 

Do you still want an equation?

 

Bob7 for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

[[Fr...]]

Bob

Anyway you have an equation to help me figure how many pills I need based on taper rate to finish off my taper? Thank you

In our earlier email exchange, I wrote:

 

You will need a total of 866 pills to do your 0.0008 g per day reduction taper.

You might want to just get a total of 1000 pills to account for spillage and if you want to a hold during holidays.

 

You indicated you thought you could get more from the doctor.

 

Do you still want an equation?

 

If you are able. Thank you so much Bob!

I would like to know how to calculate myself in case I change the rate or hold.

[[...]]

Bob

Anyway you have an equation to help me figure how many pills I need based on taper rate to finish off my taper? Thank you

In our earlier email exchange, I wrote:

 

You will need a total of 866 pills to do your 0.0008 g per day reduction taper.

You might want to just get a total of 1000 pills to account for spillage and if you want to a hold during holidays.

 

You indicated you thought you could get more from the doctor.

 

Do you still want an equation?

 

If you are able. Thank you so much Bob!

I would like to know how to calculate myself in case I change the rate or hold.

I just figured out the equation which will calculate how many pills you need to finish a taper.

 

It is a very complicated equation.  You see, it has a summation of a slowly reducing amount.  This is a snap to do in Excel but to write

it as an equation, well it looks nasty.  I will write it for you since I did the work to create it.  Here it is:

 

let c = the weight of our current dose in grams

let t = the taper you plan (e.g reduce each day by t grams until reach zero)

and we know your 5 mg pills weigh 0.165 grams

 

then you need this many of your 5 mg pills:  [c*c/t - t(0.5*c/t*(c/t+1))]/0.165

 

As an example,

c= 0.478 g (your current dose)

t = 0.0008 g (your daily taper)

each 5 mg pill weighs 0.165 g

 

pills needed = (.478*.478/0.0008-.0008*(0.5*.478/.0008*(.478/.0008+1)))/.165 = 864

[[Fr...]]

Oh wow! Thank you for taken the time for that. I am not sure I understand it at all.

 

I tried it in excel and couldn’t figure it out. Perhaps I will try to use your equation to fill in the excel quadrants.

[[no...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[ga...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi, Nova. Yes, your system sounds right. For DMT, each day you remove a little bit more.  I'm dry cutting Q now. I take a pill and cut/shave off the day's reduction, discard the cut off part, and swallow the rest.

 

I did average the pill weights, but I suppose you could just weight each pill first. I'm not actually sure which way is better. We'll see what Bob7 says.

 

When weighing, be sure the scale is on a solid, level surface and absolutely nothing interferes with the measurement. I even turn off the ventilation/close windows so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale when weighing.

Gardie

[[no...]]

Thanks Gard 🤗 ♥️♥️♥️

Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi Nova 1

 

First, everything gardener99 says is solid and good.  In particular, pay attention to her statement "so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale".

 

To answer your question.  Yes, it is a great idea to measure the weight of your current dose and then each day remove a little bit using the scale to measure how much you removed. 

 

However, it is harder than it sounds.  Most scales fluctuate at the 3rd digit.

 

I can help you more but I need some information.

 

(1) What is your benzo

(2) What is your current dose in mg

(3) How much does 1 pill weigh

(4) How much do 10 pills weigh

[[ga...]]

 

However, it is harder than it sounds.  Most scales fluctuate at the 3rd digit.

 

 

Yup. I am not DMT the Seroquel. I cut every 2 or 3 weeks, so my cuts aren't as small as a DMT cut. That way I can let the 3rd digit be off a bit.

[[no...]]

Hi Nova 1

 

First, everything gardener99 says is solid and good.  In particular, pay attention to her statement "so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale".

 

To answer your question.  Yes, it is a great idea to measure the weight of your current dose and then each day remove a little bit using the scale to measure how much you removed. 

 

However, it is harder than it sounds.  Most scales fluctuate at the 3rd digit.

 

I can help you more but I need some information.

 

(1) What is your benzo

(2) What is your current dose in mg

(3) How much does 1 pill weigh

(4) How much do 10 pills weigh

 

Hi Bob I'm waiting for my scales which should have been here today but the postal service is behind with the COVID situation so they'll be here over the next few days I hopefully. My current dose is Diazepam 12mg which I been using cut and hold to get to but I'm very symptomatic and I can't stabalise no matter what I do and I've been getting by using a pill cutter and doing cut and hold the last couple of years I was using scales previously but they became unreliable after I moved mid taper and I think they were dropped .

 

So I've been been making cuts of.5 and.25mg by eyeballing the cuts, and its taken a year or maybe slightly longer to get from 15mg to 12mg .

 

Plus being messed around by different dr's changing doses up and down another one practically CTd me I've been CTd before, my latest Dr is a good guy and working with me and letting me dictate the taper. I've also done quite a few long holds but it's been to no avail, no help at all and all symptoms getting a lot worse and more servere

 

. So I think it's time to change to a dry cut DMT as I tried a liquid one a few years back for nearly two years and barely cut anything in all that time and still suffered terrible sxs . That was with vodka and then my latest Dr prescribed the Diazepam liquid one dose was enough it was dreadful and I now definitely want to do the dry DMT.

 

So I'm waiting on the scales now and have been given a delivery date for any time over the next four days now and I'm hoping that they may get here by tomorrow but I doubt it,. So I'll get back to you soon as they turn up.

 

Nova xxx ❤️ :smitten:

[[Kg...]]

Some suggestions I can make about micro tapering using a scale. I used a 'control pill'. That is I weighed 10 pills took an average weight and for me got .172 grams.  I then found a pill that weighed this and put it aside.  When I tared the scale I always used this same pill to get to the correct weight of .172 grams - which I knew was the weight of this pill and then I measured my pills after  that.

 

For large pill cutting I used a box cutter and for smaller cuts a metal nail file.  Both worked much better than the pill cutters you buy. 

 

Like others here I never went back to re measure them again. I cut 14 pills at a time and bought one of those 14 day pill boxes and labeled the amount and the day.  If I wanted to hold I was able to just move my pills down the row  and put the ones I wouldn't be using into another pill box  again noting the pill weight. 

 

  Though it was a royal pain in the a$$ to do the pill cutting at least I only had to do it once every two weeks. 

 

I hope this helps. 

[[...]]

Some suggestions I can make about micro tapering using a scale. I used a 'control pill'. That is I weighed 10 pills took an average weight and for me got .172 grams.  I then found a pill that weighed this and put it aside.  When I tared the scale I always used this same pill to get to the correct weight of .172 grams - which I knew was the weight of this pill and then I measured my pills after  that.

 

For large pill cutting I used a box cutter and for smaller cuts a metal nail file.  Both worked much better than the pill cutters you buy. 

 

Like others here I never went back to re measure them again. I cut 14 pills at a time and bought one of those 14 day pill boxes and labeled the amount and the day.  If I wanted to hold I was able to just move my pills down the row  and put the ones I wouldn't be using into another pill box  again noting the pill weight. 

 

  Though it was a royal pain in the a$$ to do the pill cutting at least I only had to do it once every two weeks. 

 

I hope this helps.

That control pill idea is brilliant.

 

[[no...]]

Hi Bob  I tried weighing my pills on my old scales( I found a second pair I forgot I had) and  the thing with all  scales I've ever owned  is that they worry me as they tend to drift, at one time I was using 2 pairs the same brand new, the Smart weigh ones I posted in the picture in my last post and they never both weighed to same , and sometimes they drift when there's nothing on them and that's being very careful.

 

It also seems to be a very common problem a lot of people have , and no remedy for it, and I've always used the smart weigh in the pictures I tried various others multiple times form cheap to very  expensive and they were even worse!! I also use a level to check the surface the scales are on, and the new ones will probably be the same when they get here    I mean .1 you can over look, its not too drastic  but they can and do  drift more than that.

 

Anyway using the scales I have got weighing the pills one weighs 176 and ten weigh 1.746, which I think was the same the last time I used scales two year's ago, so I don't know if that will be any help at all as I'm really not expecting anything different  weight wise with the new ones when they finally arrive.

 

                                                            Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Some suggestions I can make about micro tapering using a scale. I used a 'control pill'. That is I weighed 10 pills took an average weight and for me got .172 grams.  I then found a pill that weighed this and put it aside.  When I tared the scale I always used this same pill to get to the correct weight of .172 grams - which I knew was the weight of this pill and then I measured my pills after  that.

 

For large pill cutting I used a box cutter and for smaller cuts a metal nail file.  Both worked much better than the pill cutters you buy. 

 

Like others here I never went back to re measure them again. I cut 14 pills at a time and bought one of those 14 day pill boxes and labeled the amount and the day.  If I wanted to hold I was able to just move my pills down the row  and put the ones I wouldn't be using into another pill box  again noting the pill weight. 

 

  Though it was a royal pain in the a$$ to do the pill cutting at least I only had to do it once every two weeks. 

 

I hope this helps.

That control pill idea is brilliant.

I use one of these for cutting multiple pills in half , 

 

This one to quarter them

 

 

 

I tried a Stanley knife  box cutter but didn't find it helpful, I either couldn't get a clean cut or the pills split into too many pieces and powder, but I know other peole get along fine using them the same as you Kgirl  As for using  a ''control pill' did you put it in the pan then tare the scales that way?  sorry I can't think further than basic simple stuff at all right now, and I feeling very insecure and constantly worrying and stressing to the max  I'm going to get it wrong    I don't have a metal nail file but I do have these will they be OK to use? Their YATO YT-6144 – Diamond Needle File Set 10-Pack 3 x 140 x 50 mm from Amazon, their  jewellery files

 

 

 

 

Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Hi Bob  I tried weighing my pills on my old scales( I found a second pair I forgot I had) and  the thing with all  scales I've ever owned  is that they worry me as they tend to drift, at one time I was using 2 pairs the same brand new, the Smart weigh ones I posted in the picture in my last post and they never both weighed to same , and sometimes they drift when there's nothing on them and that's being very careful.

 

It also seems to be a very common problem a lot of people have , and no remedy for it, and I've always used the smart weigh in the pictures I tried various others multiple times form cheap to very  expensive and they were even worse!! I also use a level to check the surface the scales are on, and the new ones will probably be the same when they get here    I mean .1 you can over look, its not too drastic  but they can and do  drift more than that.

 

Anyway using the scales I have got weighing the pills one weighs 176 and ten weigh 1.746, which I think was the same the last time I used scales two year's ago, so I don't know if that will be any help at all as I'm really not expecting anything different  weight wise with the new ones when they finally arrive.

 

                                                            Nova xxx  :smitten:

Hi Bob   Well  surprise, suprise to me!!    new scales actually came today  but have not tested them yet as I'm all over the bucking place and in pain, hoping to give them a test run later

 

Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Hi Bob   Pill weight on new scales 1 pill =174  10 pills =1.745

 

 

                Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi nova 1,

 

I read your last several posts.  Looks like you are happy with your new scale.

 

I got the weight of your pill as 0.174 grams and for 10 pills it was 1.745 grams so all is well.

 

Do you want help with a tapering schedule (e.g. how much weight to remove per day)?

 

If so, tell me:

(1) The dose of each of your pills (read right from the bottle), it will be in mg

(2) What is your current dose you take today in mg

(3) Do you want to cut a little each day or do a large cut but then hold for 2 weeks?

(4) How much do you want to cut?

[[no...]]

author=Bob7 link=topic=135284.msg3091180#msg3091180 date=1591467692]

Hi nova 1,

 

I read your last several posts.  Looks like you are happy with your new scale. ( Actually the thought of using  ANY  scales still freak me out  as I'm a nervous wreck at the moment  with absolute zero stress tolerance, so basically most things freak me out which is a common withdrawal symptom I'm sure many of you understand this happening, irrational chemically induced fear Hopefully I will feel more confident once I get into the swing of DMT this time  )

 

I got the weight of your pill as 0.174 grams and for 10 pills it was 1.745 grams so all is well.

 

 

 

Do you want help with a tapering schedule (e.g. how much weight to remove per day)?

 

  Yes please 

 

 

If so, tell me:

The dose of each of your pills (read right from the bottle), it will be in mg[/b

 

2mg , and 5mg

 

 

(2) What is your current dose you take today in mg ?

 

12mg  

 

But I dose 3 times a day using 5mg pills and 2mg pills at the moment, but am cutting the 5mg out I have  had to lower the  amount of 5mg I use

as I have a problem with the yellow colouring. I was using whole 5mg pill's along with the 2mg pills  but now only use 1/2 of a 5mg pill

How I dose is....

 

AM 3x2mg pill's=6mg

 

Afternoon 1/2 a 2mg pill+1/2 5mg pill=3.5mg

 

PM 1and a 1/4 2mg pill=2.2mg

 

6mg+3.5mg+2.5mg=12mg

 

 

3 Do a large cut but then hold for 2 weeks? 

 

 

No, I'm doing cut and hold and its too much I have to keep doing long holds each time I cut while  and getting more symptomatic,  I was cutting .5 then having to do a long hold then .25 and still having to do very  long holds and getting no relief and a lot of time holding and unable to stabilise at all.  I'm housebound, in agony 24/7 and not able to do much at all I'm really struggling to survive as I live alone  with no help  and have been for a very long time and getting worse

 

 

(4) How much do you want to cut?

 

I'm not sure but being  as its going to change to  daily cuts  low and slow to start with until I get the hang of it and see how I tolerate it, and also I'll change the way I dose if need be to simplify things,  what do you suggest? Hope you can understand my answers to your questions  OK Bob.

 

                              Nova xxx  :smitten: