Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[no...]]

Bob  I Just thought,  I don't need to totally change my whole dosing routine as I'm only going to be subtracting from one pill not ALL the pills, also I was thinking that maybe cutting once a week or maybe per 2 weeks at a very small amount would be a lot less hassle than daily?

 

What if I was to cut say 0.125 per week from a pill? Or even less?? I can't think how I'm supposed to go about it now, I have zero memory of how I did it a few year's ago at a lower dose than I'm taking now, what I mean is I can't remember how I cut the pills to get the correct weight from the weight of the whole pill regardless or how small a dose I needed

 

I know I was using some pills I had crushed and breaking up pills to get the desired weight and putting it all in a capsule and taking the capsule as it was bits , halves, quarters, small pieces and powdered Diazepam , I wasn't adding anything else like you were Bob with the Microcrystalline Cellulose. And I used Google just now to check if I was to subtract 0.125 from 174 that equals  173.875. But I can't for the life of me remember how the hell I did it at such a small subtraction Sorry I'm mighty confused and the more I try to figure it out the worse its getting and I'm having a bad day today which isn't helping at all. Sorry if I'm confusing you as well as myself

 

 

                    Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

nova 1,

 

I am typing up suggestions to help you.

 

However, since you have two bottles (one is 2mg and the other is 5mg), I first need you to answer two questions:

 

(1) Is the weight of 0.174 grams for the 2 mg pill or 5 mg pill (or do they weigh the same)?

 

(2) To simplify things, would you be willing to just use 2 mg pills for a few months?  If so, it will make my instructions more fool-proof and less complicated.

[[no...]]

Hi Bob yes I'll stick with the 2mg

    Nova xxx    :smitten:

 

[[...]]

nova 1,

 

I am going to say 3 things to help you clear you mind of clutter and give you direction.  Just so you know, I am not a doctor.  This is your choice.

 

FIRST

You do not need a filler (Microcrystalline Cellulose) to mix with Diazepam. 

We only use a filler for benzos like Klonopin.

Diazepam is 20 times heavier than Klonopin for a given strength so you do not need any filler to make your scale detect small daily reductions.

 

SECOND

I recommend you reduce by weight 0.002 grams per day.  This will have your reach zero benzo in 522 days.  If you want to go faster, let me know but I suggest you first try this super slow speed to see how you body handles it.

 

THIRD

Here is a much simpler way to handle your 3 times a day dosing routine:

 

(1) Use only your 2 mg pills. 

 

(2) Crush them into a powder and store the powder in the original bottle so you remember the power is from 2mg pills

 

(3) Your current dose is 12 mg which weigh 1.044 grams (the weight of six 2 mg pills).

So if you weigh on your scale 1.044 grams of powder, you will have your dose for today.  Then separate it into 3 parts for morning, noon, evening.

 

(4) After day 1, you just reduce the 1.044 gram by 0.002 grams and again, divide into 3 doses for morning, noon, and evening

 

To be clear:

Day 1 - Weigh 1.044 grams

Day 2 - Weigh 1.042 grams

Day 3 - Weigh 1.040 grams

Day 4 - Weigh 1.038 grams

and so on until day 522 when you reach zero.

 

I hope this is clear.  Take your time to think about it.  You can do this.

[[no...]]

nova 1,

 

I am going to say 3 things to help you clear you mind of clutter and give you direction.  Just so you know, I am not a doctor.  This is your choice.

 

FIRST

You do not need a filler (Microcrystalline Cellulose) to mix with Diazepam. 

We only use a filler for benzos like Klonopin.

Diazepam is 20 times heavier than Klonopin for a given strength so you do not need any filler to make your scale detect small daily reductions.

 

SECOND

I recommend you reduce by weight 0.002 grams per day.  This will have your reach zero benzo in 522 days.  If you want to go faster, let me know but I suggest you first try this super slow speed to see how you body handles it.

 

THIRD

Here is a much simpler way to handle your 3 times a day dosing routine:

 

(1) Use only your 2 mg pills. 

 

(2) Crush them into a powder and store the powder in the original bottle so you remember the power is from 2mg pills

 

(3) Your current dose is 12 mg which weigh 1.044 grams (the weight of six 2 mg pills).

So if you weigh on your scale 1.044 grams of powder, you will have your dose for today.  Then separate it into 3 parts for morning, noon, evening.

 

(4) After day 1, you just reduce the 1.044 gram by 0.002 grams and again, divide into 3 doses for morning, noon, and evening

 

To be clear:

Day 1 - Weigh 1.044 grams

Day 2 - Weigh 1.042 grams

Day 3 - Weigh 1.040 grams

Day 4 - Weigh 1.038 grams

and so on until day 522 when you reach zero.

 

I hope this is clear.  Take your time to think about it.  You can do this.

 

Hi Bob  Thanks for the above plan, but  I am sorry  I don't want to use  my whole dose as its too much worry to me, I just want to cut 1 pill  to

 

start off  and I'd have a hard time trying to separate  my whole dose  into my 3 doses as I take 3 different amounts at 3 different times each day, and splitting my

 

dose into 3 equal dose won't work as above a certain dose PM makes my insomnia even worse . I have to take my lowest dose at night

 

 

 

I am way too ill to deal with that right now, it just  feels too complicated to try and cope with it while  being in this physical and mental mess, and I only want to cut 

 

1 pill to do a Daily micro taper cut and keep the other pills whole for less stress and hassle

 

 

 

Being as my pill weight  is 174, and  I have  pills that are  heavier or lighter than the  174 weight,  do I  add to the lighter ones less than 174  or subtract bits from

 

the heavier ones  to or from the scale  to get the  correct 174 weight then take off my desired desired amount of 0.001 or 0.002 from the  174  ?

 

 

 

I can't get stable at all and am hoping doing this will be better for me than doing bigger cuts and being too sick to cut again for ages and ending up doing multiple

 

very long holds which don't help either. 

 

 

 

Maybe when I feel more confident, I have zero confidence at all right now I am permanently stressed and afraid of everything  between hell withdrawal symptoms

 

and life personal issues,  I can reconsider doing my whole dose in future  but there's no way I can cope with it now even reading

 

it is too much to even think about doing my whole dose powdered

 

 

 

                        Nova xxx :smitten:

     

[[...]]

If I were you, I would not worry about the pills being slightly different weights.

I mean, have you ever measured the same pill 10 times in a row (wait 1 minute between each measurement).  Did you get different weights for the same pill?

 

In any case, these small changes do not matter.  The half-life of your drug is so long, you will not detect the small changes.

 

Just do want you want.  Cut from one pill 0.002 grams a day, each day, and you will be going about as slow as you can.

[[no...]]

If I were you, I would not worry about the pills being slightly different weights.

I mean, have you ever measured the same pill 10 times in a row (wait 1 minute between each measurement).  Did you get different weights for the same pill?

 

In any case, these small changes do not matter.  The half-life of your drug is so long, you will not detect the small changes.

 

Just do want you want.  Cut from one pill 0.002 grams a day, each day, and you will be going about as slow as you can.

So if I do it that way 1 pill at a time instead of my whole dose per day I will still be off in 522 days time?  Sorry my brains very fuzzy. Thanks Bob

 

      Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

correct.  522 days.

[[no...]]

correct.  522 days.

Thanks very much Bob  I truly appreciate your help and your kindness 

 

 

 

                      Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Ul...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi, Nova. Yes, your system sounds right. For DMT, each day you remove a little bit more.  I'm dry cutting Q now. I take a pill and cut/shave off the day's reduction, discard the cut off part, and swallow the rest.

 

I did average the pill weights, but I suppose you could just weight each pill first. I'm not actually sure which way is better. We'll see what Bob7 says.

 

When weighing, be sure the scale is on a solid, level surface and absolutely nothing interferes with the measurement. I even turn off the ventilation/close windows so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale when weighing.

Gardie

 

Hello to the Gardie-Meister!!!! 

 

Jeff

[[...]]

Just to be clear, there is no reason to weigh 10 pills to get an average weight when doing this method:

 

Day 1 - weigh a new pill, scrape off 0.001 grams

Day 2 - weigh a new pill, scrape off 0.002 grams

Day 3 - weigh a new pill, scrape off 0.003 grams

 

continue until that pill is gone.

 

 

 

[[ga...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi, Nova. Yes, your system sounds right. For DMT, each day you remove a little bit more.  I'm dry cutting Q now. I take a pill and cut/shave off the day's reduction, discard the cut off part, and swallow the rest.

 

I did average the pill weights, but I suppose you could just weight each pill first. I'm not actually sure which way is better. We'll see what Bob7 says.

 

When weighing, be sure the scale is on a solid, level surface and absolutely nothing interferes with the measurement. I even turn off the ventilation/close windows so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale when weighing.

Gardie

 

Hello to the Gardie-Meister!!!! 

 

Jeff

Hi, Jeff! Hope you're well!

[[Ma...]]

I did liquid for 3 years. Since my crash my cns won’t allow it. I’m trying to wrap my head around the math of a daily dry cut taper  I have a total of 4 mg. I want to taper a 2 mg pill. I need to go super slow at 160 days Per mg or 320 days for 2 mg. The pill weight average is .172. What is the equation for daily cut rate? What is equation for % per month reduction at this rate?

 

 

Thank you

[[no...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi, Nova. Yes, your system sounds right. For DMT, each day you remove a little bit more.  I'm dry cutting Q now. I take a pill and cut/shave off the day's reduction, discard the cut off part, and swallow the rest.

 

I did average the pill weights, but I suppose you could just weight each pill first. I'm not actually sure which way is better. We'll see what Bob7 says.

 

When weighing, be sure the scale is on a solid, level surface and absolutely nothing interferes with the measurement. I even turn off the ventilation/close windows so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale when weighing.

Gardie

 

Hello to the Gardie-Meister!!!! 

 

Jeff

Hi, Jeff! Hope you're well!

Hi Gard What is Q?

 

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

[[no...]]

If I were you, I would not worry about the pills being slightly different weights.

I mean, have you ever measured the same pill 10 times in a row (wait 1 minute between each measurement).  Did you get different weights for the same pill?

 

In any case, these small changes do not matter.  The half-life of your drug is so long, you will not detect the small changes.

 

Just do want you want.  Cut from one pill 0.002 grams a day, each day, and you will be going about as slow as you can.

I did liquid for 3 years. Since my crash my cns won’t allow it. I’m trying to wrap my head around the math of a daily dry cut taper  I have a total of 4 mg. I want to taper a 2 mg pill. I need to go super slow at 160 days Per mg or 320 days for 2 mg. The pill weight average is .172. What is the equation for daily cut rate? What is equation for % per month reduction at this rate?

 

 

Thank you

  Hi Magnolia  I'm sure someone will help you out soon Bob is an absolute Star  But I had the same question as you, and felt desperate waiting for someone to answer so I'm post average weight  but you don't you just take a random pill and cut off the amount you want to drop by, I'm dropping by 0.002 per Bob's advice below

 

                          Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

author=Bob7 link=topic=135284.msg3091821#msg3091821 date=1591634159]

 

If I were you, I would not worry about the pills being slightly different weights.

I mean, have you ever measured the same pill 10 times in a row (wait 1 minute between each measurement).  Did you get different weights for the same pill?

 

In any case, these small changes do not matter.  The half-life of your drug is so long, you will not detect the small changes.

 

Just do want you want.  Cut from one pill 0.002 grams a day, each day, and you will be going about as slow as you can.

[[ga...]]

You know, once I got my pill weighed, I stopped thinking about how much drug was in it and just thought about the whole weight of the pill. I wanted to get rid of the whole pill.

 

This was when I was tapering trazodone, before I started my benzo tapers, which were liquid. I don't remember the actual pill weights. I'll just use the .2 grams was an example. So if my whole pill was .2 grams, I subtracted 10% of .2 grams each month. That would be .02 grams per month. Divide that by 30 days in a month and I had my daily subtraction of .00067 grams (.67mg) per day. I shaved off the little bits with a very thin knife and then weighed what was left of the pill.

 

So, I'm curious, was that a legitimate way to figure out a dry taper or was I out in left field and was just lucky that it worked?

Your method is actually very good.  I understand why people are curious about the actual medication amounts but what you're saying is absolutely true. What you get work perfectly And reliably.

 

Gardner or Bob 7  Or anyone else that understands this please feel free to advise thanks,

I'm very brain fogged  sorry so please bear with me ,  I will be using a Smart Weigh High Precision Digital Milligram Jewellery Scale, 20 x 0.001g 

 

Regarding the above plan about pill shaving, is the idea to say you want to reduce by 000.1 per day as an example, do you just weigh 1 pill then file, cut off 000.1 then Day2 1  whole pill again then file, cut, shave off 000.2, Day3 1 whole pill then file, cut, shave off 000.3 and carry on like that daily just subtracting the extra .1 per day from you weighed pill?

 

Also is there any need to weigh say 10 pills to get an overall pill weight or can you simply just take a random pill and get rid of the .1 extra per day, so each day your going down by another extra  .1 per day? Thanks

 

                                Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi, Nova. Yes, your system sounds right. For DMT, each day you remove a little bit more.  I'm dry cutting Q now. I take a pill and cut/shave off the day's reduction, discard the cut off part, and swallow the rest.

 

I did average the pill weights, but I suppose you could just weight each pill first. I'm not actually sure which way is better. We'll see what Bob7 says.

 

When weighing, be sure the scale is on a solid, level surface and absolutely nothing interferes with the measurement. I even turn off the ventilation/close windows so there is no breeze, and I do not breathe on the scale when weighing.

Gardie

 

Hello to the Gardie-Meister!!!! 

 

Jeff

Hi, Jeff! Hope you're well!

Hi Gard What is Q?

 

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

 

Seroquel. I take a very low dose for sleep. (I was originally put on a benzo for sleep.)

[[...]]

I did liquid for 3 years. Since my crash my cns won’t allow it. I’m trying to wrap my head around the math of a daily dry cut taper  I have a total of 4 mg. I want to taper a 2 mg pill. I need to go super slow at 160 days Per mg or 320 days for 2 mg. The pill weight average is .172. What is the equation for daily cut rate? What is equation for % per month reduction at this rate?

 

 

Thank you

The equation is as follows.

To taper a 2mg pill (weight of 0.172 grams) in 320 days, you just divide 0.172 by 320 to get 0.000538 grams and then reduce 0.000538 each day.

Unfortunately, your scale will not be able to detect a change of 0.000538.

 

You have 3 options to make a scale work at such a slow taper:

(1) Get a pill with a smaller dosage (e.g. a 0.5 mg pill might just be heavy enough to see small changes)

(2) Instead of reducing 0.000538 grams every day, reduce 0.008 grams every 2 weeks (e.g. 0.000538 * 14 = 0.008)

(3) Mix in a filler to increase the weight so your scale will work - see this method - https://benzodrytapermath.com/

 

If you want to try one of these methods, let me know.

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

For a one mg pill, what’s the slowest I can go? How many days to complete 1 mg. How would you mix in a filler with a pill? So is dlmt the only way to go really slow? What would equation be for a 5% monthly reduction?

[[...]]

For a one mg pill, what’s the slowest I can go? How many days to complete 1 mg. How would you mix in a filler with a pill? So is dlmt the only way to go really slow?

DLMT is the easiest way to go really slow.  It is a bit more messy with the liquids and you cannot easily travel (well, I find it easier to make a bunch of dry doses and put them into gel capsules).

But if you don't mind the mess and doing it while traveling, then yes, do a DLMT for sure.  It is proven to be effective.

 

Mixing a filler is complicated.  Let us see if we can find you a method with out mixing. 

 

What is the weight of your 1mg pill?

 

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

I’d cut the 2 mg in half.  Would that work? I’ve been so sick with wd and changing generics I’m afraid of liquid. I did it for 3 years. Thank

[[...]]

That would not work.

 

A 2 mg pill divided by its weight (0.172g) equals 11.64 mg per gram of weight

 

Cutting the pill in have would not change anything.  In that case:

 

One half of a pill (1mg) divided by 1/2 of its weight is the same 11.64 mg per gram.

 

If you are afraid of liquids, I can help you with a dry cut, but you need to understand the limits of your scale.

 

In a moment I will send you an idea.

 

[[Ma...]]

I will buy the scale with 4 digits after decimal. Would that help?

[[...]]

In my experience, those scales will not work any better.  They still fluctuate at the lower digits making it hard to do small changes.  Tremors in the house or your breath on the scale make it unstable.

[[...]]

This method shows you the slowest you can go (unless you mix in a filler or decided not to reduce every day).

 

If you are very careful, your scale is repeatable to detect a change of 0.002 grams (provided you do not breathe on it).

 

So here is a safe approach for you.

 

Day 1 - Weigh a fresh 2 mg pill.  Cut off 0.002 grams from it.  Eat the rest.

Day 2 - Weigh a fresh 2 mg pill.  Cut off 0.004 grams from it.  Eat the rest.

Day 3 - Weigh a fresh 2 mg pill.  Cut off 0.006 grams from it.  Eat the rest.

Continue until the 2 mg pill is gone.  It will take about 3 months (86 days to be exact)

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

If I want to lengthen the 86 days, I could go every other day until I know I’m stable? Would cutting .001 instead of .002 slow it up? Would getting a 4 digit scale help lengthen the days longer to taper?