Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[wa...]]

Little update; I am using some zopiclone again. One day ago a half tablet and last night a quarter. I was waking up at 6 O'clock a couple of times and could not sleep after. I am planning to quit it, after several good nights. I am not worried, it is as it is.

 

Perhaps you could investigate another medication with your doctor which doesn't screw around with your GABAA receptors like Trazadone, Elavil, Seroquel or even an antihistamine?  I would be concerned that your GABAA receptors are not getting a real break from re-exposure to the zopiclone. WBB

[[Se...]]

Lightspacer, please try very hard not to use the z-drugs.  Your receptors will not heal if you keep re-exposing yourself to this terrible drug.  Look into other alternatives, please.

 

Zuko, I know you mean well but the aim for all of us on this thread is to come completely off.  Even small doses used after successfully completing a taper are an issue.  Please don't encourage others here to continue to use the z-drugs after coming off them - the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

 

Alison

[[GA...]]

Lightspacer, please try very hard not to use the z-drugs.  Your receptors will not heal if you keep re-exposing yourself to this terrible drug.  Look into other alternatives, please.

 

Zuko, I know you mean well but the aim for all of us on this thread is to come completely off.  Even small doses used after successfully completing a taper are an issue.  Please don't encourage others here to continue to use the z-drugs after coming off them - the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

 

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

[[Lo...]]

.....the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

Thanks for the reminder. I am now on .5 mg of Zopiclone that was made up by the compounding pharmacy. I will stop it in the next few days. Then I hope I find the strength resolve to take all the remaining tablets to the pharmacy for disposal. A little voice is whispering..."But what if...something bad happens and I can't sleep"!

[[wa...]]

.....the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

Thanks for the reminder. I am now on .5 mg of Zopiclone that was made up by the compounding pharmacy. I will stop it in the next few days. Then I hope I find the strength resolve to take all the remaining tablets to the pharmacy for disposal. A little voice is whispering..."But what if...something bad happens and I can't sleep"!

 

I see that you have that neck/shoulder pain now.  I had terrible shoulder pain triggered by carrying too much weight in shopping bags (combined with being very out of shape).  Weirdly, the day after i jumped, the pain started subsiding.  These drugs are nasty.  WBB

[[...]]

Just sitting here crying to myself went onto Facebook and looked at my ex's profile and she's got a picture of her with her new boyfriend and is proper in love...

 

Popped 3.75mg of my 15mg dose

[[GA...]]

.....the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

Thanks for the reminder. I am now on .5 mg of Zopiclone that was made up by the compounding pharmacy. I will stop it in the next few days. Then I hope I find the strength resolve to take all the remaining tablets to the pharmacy for disposal. A little voice is whispering..."But what if...something bad happens and I can't sleep"!

 

You're taking .5MG? In other words one half of a milligram? I'm surprised such a tiny amount like that can even affect you. I think a lot of this "dependence" we have is psychological.

 

And then we read the horror stories of people withdrawing and then we focus totally on ourselves and our feelings. Then we think we are feeling anxiety. And thinking about that anxiety makes it seem to grow.

 

It's a known fact that benzos and Z-drugs disrupt sleep rhythms. So where they seem to help at first, you build a tolerance and it takes more to knock you out, and you keep waking wanting more.

 

I play the "what if"? game myself, but most of the things I worry about never happen, or if they do, they are not as bad as I feared.

[[bu...]]

.....the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

Thanks for the reminder. I am now on .5 mg of Zopiclone that was made up by the compounding pharmacy. I will stop it in the next few days. Then I hope I find the strength resolve to take all the remaining tablets to the pharmacy for disposal. A little voice is whispering..."But what if...something bad happens and I can't sleep"!

 

Take them immediately, do not wait. I am so glad that I did. Plus the rehab that I went to reminded me to call the pharmacy to cancel the remaining scrips that I had on file.

 

Trust me, I am feeling so much better without. My quality of sleep is improving at only 54 days off. Just allow a flex schedule at first if possible. I don't stress since I don't have to be anywhere first thing. I have had only 1-2 weird brain nights in past few weekends and I attribute them to hormonal changes.

 

You can do this!!!

[[bu...]]

.....the goal is to get rid of these drugs out of your house so you are not tempted.  The first months can be tough but sleep will even out as long as you go don't go back on them.

Alison

 

I agree wholeheartedly. About a month after I finally tapered off, I remembered that I still had 25 Ambien tabs in my kitchen cabinet. What am I keeping them around for? I disposed of them. I have no need nor desire for them and actually sleep better without them.

Thanks for the reminder. I am now on .5 mg of Zopiclone that was made up by the compounding pharmacy. I will stop it in the next few days. Then I hope I find the strength resolve to take all the remaining tablets to the pharmacy for disposal. A little voice is whispering..."But what if...something bad happens and I can't sleep"!

 

You're taking .5MG? In other words one half of a milligram? I'm surprised such a tiny amount like that can even affect you. I think a lot of this "dependence" we have is psychological.

 

And then we read the horror stories of people withdrawing and then we focus totally on ourselves and our feelings. Then we think we are feeling anxiety. And thinking about that anxiety makes it seem to grow.

 

It's a known fact that benzos and Z-drugs disrupt sleep rhythms. So where they seem to help at first, you build a tolerance and it takes more to knock you out, and you keep waking wanting more.

 

I play the "what if"? game myself, but most of the things I worry about never happen, or if they do, they are not as bad as I feared.

 

Yes!!! We have to get over our fears. It's the only way out. 

[[Lo...]]

I see that you have that neck/shoulder pain now.  I had terrible shoulder pain triggered by carrying too much weight in shopping bags (combined with being very out of shape).  Weirdly, the day after i jumped, the pain started subsiding.  These drugs are nasty.  WBB

Glad to hear that your neck/shoulder pain started subsiding right away. My neck/shoulder pain was also related to abusing my neck and shoulder. I was working towards a deadline with my pottery and was throwing large amounts of clay etc. No pacing. It is much better now but I am about to get back to work for the next deadline...a sale in November and then Christmas gifts. However...I do need to look after myself! Only do what I can comfortably do!

[[Lo...]]

Just sitting here crying to myself went onto Facebook and looked at my ex's profile and she's got a picture of her with her new boyfriend and is proper in love...

 

Popped 3.75mg of my 15mg dose

I'm sorry to hear but that's life! Many of us are in this predicament because we don't know how to manage our emotions. No time like the present to learn. Please don't medicate to deal with the situation.

[[Lo...]]

You're taking .5MG? In other words one half of a milligram? I'm surprised such a tiny amount like that can even affect you. I think a lot of this "dependence" we have is psychological.

 

And then we read the horror stories of people withdrawing and then we focus totally on ourselves and our feelings. Then we think we are feeling anxiety. And thinking about that anxiety makes it seem to grow.

 

It's a known fact that benzos and Z-drugs disrupt sleep rhythms. So where they seem to help at first, you build a tolerance and it takes more to knock you out, and you keep waking wanting more.

 

I play the "what if"? game myself, but most of the things I worry about never happen, or if they do, they are not as bad as I feared.

Hi @GABAreceptors, I totally agree that .5 mg probably is doing nothing. I certainly don't think it is helping me to sleep but I am following what some are doing and that is going down to a very small amount before jumping in the hopes that I won't have any significant withdrawal at the end.

 

All I feel these days is some anxiety in the mornings after I have had my coffee! Perhaps from the coffee and nothing to do with the Zopiclone!

 

I would have jumped before now except I had a deadline to meet last week and was pushing myself and not sleeping long enough. A bit hyper. I thought I would wait until all was copacetic. No extenuating circumstances.

 

I am sleeping enough hours but at the moment am very tired. I hope the sleep quality improves.  Maybe I am just tired from last week.

 

Yes, I regret that I have read so many horror stories about withdrawal. I did a taper once before without much of a problem.

 

As for the "what ifs" I am really trying to deal with my problems and not let anxiety carry me away.

[[GA...]]

You're taking .5MG? In other words one half of a milligram? I'm surprised such a tiny amount like that can even affect you. I think a lot of this "dependence" we have is psychological.

 

And then we read the horror stories of people withdrawing and then we focus totally on ourselves and our feelings. Then we think we are feeling anxiety. And thinking about that anxiety makes it seem to grow.

 

It's a known fact that benzos and Z-drugs disrupt sleep rhythms. So where they seem to help at first, you build a tolerance and it takes more to knock you out, and you keep waking wanting more.

 

I play the "what if"? game myself, but most of the things I worry about never happen, or if they do, they are not as bad as I feared.

Hi @GABAreceptors, I totally agree that .5 mg probably is doing nothing. I certainly don't think it is helping me to sleep but I am following what some are doing and that is going down to a very small amount before jumping in the hopes that I won't have any significant withdrawal at the end.

 

All I feel these days is some anxiety in the mornings after I have had my coffee! Perhaps from the coffee and nothing to do with the Zopiclone!

 

I would have jumped before now except I had a deadline to meet last week and was pushing myself and not sleeping long enough. A bit hyper. I thought I would wait until all was copacetic. No extenuating circumstances.

 

I am sleeping enough hours but at the moment am very tired. I hope the sleep quality improves.  Maybe I am just tired from last week.

 

Yes, I regret that I have read so many horror stories about withdrawal. I did a taper once before without much of a problem.

 

As for the "what ifs" I am really trying to deal with my problems and not let anxiety carry me away.

 

 

I think the important thing is that you picture your benzo use and/or Z-drug use as a graph, and the jagged line keeps slowly but steadily pointing downward.

 

I tapered off the Ambien in 6 weeks, by updosing the Ativan. This might be considered a no-no, but I determined that my bigger problem was the Z-drug. Since stopping Ambien, my coordination has greatly improved. I kept dropping medicine bottles (usually benzos or Zdrugs) on the floor, my grip was loose. That has stopped since the Zdrug stopped.

 

On the way down, so to speak, from the Ativan, I have had a few "slips", that is, times I was so emotionally upset that I updosed the Ativan just to knock myself out and go to sleep. These were times I felt great pressure, and it wasn't really from the withdrawal itself, it was because of things going on in my life that I had trouble dealing with. I've gone through as many as three days at a time like that and feel horrible because I feel what taking too much feels like. It's a real "dumbing down" feeling. Fortunately, I always get back on track and get back on the taper. So while I occasionally fall down, I pick myself back up.

 

The important thing for me is that I look at the long-term "graph" of my benzo use and see that the jagged line is gradually heading downward. The Z drug line no longer exists, it is gone forever.

[[bu...]]

You're taking .5MG? In other words one half of a milligram? I'm surprised such a tiny amount like that can even affect you. I think a lot of this "dependence" we have is psychological.

 

And then we read the horror stories of people withdrawing and then we focus totally on ourselves and our feelings. Then we think we are feeling anxiety. And thinking about that anxiety makes it seem to grow.

 

It's a known fact that benzos and Z-drugs disrupt sleep rhythms. So where they seem to help at first, you build a tolerance and it takes more to knock you out, and you keep waking wanting more.

 

I play the "what if"? game myself, but most of the things I worry about never happen, or if they do, they are not as bad as I feared.

Hi @GABAreceptors, I totally agree that .5 mg probably is doing nothing. I certainly don't think it is helping me to sleep but I am following what some are doing and that is going down to a very small amount before jumping in the hopes that I won't have any significant withdrawal at the end.

 

All I feel these days is some anxiety in the mornings after I have had my coffee! Perhaps from the coffee and nothing to do with the Zopiclone!

 

I would have jumped before now except I had a deadline to meet last week and was pushing myself and not sleeping long enough. A bit hyper. I thought I would wait until all was copacetic. No extenuating circumstances.

 

I am sleeping enough hours but at the moment am very tired. I hope the sleep quality improves.  Maybe I am just tired from last week.

 

Yes, I regret that I have read so many horror stories about withdrawal. I did a taper once before without much of a problem.

 

As for the "what ifs" I am really trying to deal with my problems and not let anxiety carry me away.

 

 

I think the important thing is that you picture your benzo use and/or Z-drug use as a graph, and the jagged line keeps slowly but steadily pointing downward.

 

I tapered off the Ambien in 6 weeks, by updosing the Ativan. This might be considered a no-no, but I determined that my bigger problem was the Z-drug. Since stopping Ambien, my coordination has greatly improved. I kept dropping medicine bottles (usually benzos or Zdrugs) on the floor, my grip was loose. That has stopped since the Zdrug stopped.

 

On the way down, so to speak, from the Ativan, I have had a few "slips", that is, times I was so emotionally upset that I updosed the Ativan just to knock myself out and go to sleep. These were times I felt great pressure, and it wasn't really from the withdrawal itself, it was because of things going on in my life that I had trouble dealing with. I've gone through as many as three days at a time like that and feel horrible because I feel what taking too much feels like. It's a real "dumbing down" feeling. Fortunately, I always get back on track and get back on the taper. So while I occasionally fall down, I pick myself back up.

 

The important thing for me is that I look at the long-term "graph" of my benzo use and see that the jagged line is gradually heading downward. The Z drug line no longer exists, it is gone forever.

 

This is why I had to go to rehab to get off ambien. I got over klonopin emotionally because at the end of the day I took ambien. I needed that control taken away. Now I have it deal with the feelings, a whole new way to live and our overly sensitive systems don't know how. Lots of mindfulness, letting go of thoughts before bed time ( and again at midnight and 2 am, 4 am, uggg!!!) is crucial!

 

You can do this!!!

[[Se...]]

Butterfly,

 

I just finished posting this on Fliprain's support thread:

 

Flip,

 

So wonderful to hear from you.  I am always so interested in what you are doing these days as I relate so closely to your journey and my own goal is to return to do a Masters in Counselling, I'll be going back in my late 50's if I do.  In the meanwhile, I started up my own in-person "coming off benzodiazepine and/or z-drugs" support group here in my city, we meet once a month and it has been going since January.  I'm up to 80 online members and about 6 - 12 people come out each month.  My own counsellor suggested I do this last fall when I was about 2-1/2 years in withdrawal after jumping.  I had no real "control" over what was happening to me in withdrawal but we focused on small ways of exercising some control in other aspects of my life that were (and are) meaningful to me.

 

I went back to work in August, I'm about 2 months in and so far I'm managing well.  It was a big transition to go from couch potato of sorts to fulltime work but I have healed a lot in this past year.  I'm now 41 months off and I'd say I'm about 90% healed on a good day.  Interestingly, as my stress levels have ramped up recently with my father's passing, I've experienced a few "old" symptoms again - burning skin pain and some tinnitus.  So just like you, I'm noticing the relationship between stress and healing.

 

You are one of my inspirations and heroes and I'm grateful for this thread and for your continued presence on this site, despite your new life and responsibilities.

 

How wonderful for you to stand up amongst your peers and tell your truth and be accepted and believed.  My own counsellor is starting to work with some of the people from my support group and it has been quite an education for her.  Thankfully, she is wonderful and her background in addictions has given her more insight than most into the lingering effects of post acute withdrawal syndrome and beyond.  She is seeing firsthand how difficult this journey is.

 

Finally, your words at the end are very profound.  I learned in my own grief journey 8 years ago when I lost my beloved and wonderful husband to suicide out of the blue - he was an amazing man and was the sanest person I knew - that our lives are "authored" one "good decision at a time".  Particularly in the swirling madness of benzo recovery or even grief, when you are at a complete loss and devoid of hope, just doing the next "best thing" in the moment.  You dig your way forward one good decision at a time.  That is all you can sometimes do.  You make that decision based on all the evidence you have on hand and you do your best.

 

When I lost my husband and my world was simultaneously laid bare, I was devoid of hope.  The best advice I had was to go forward one decision at a time.  Sometimes I was as simple as making a cup of tea or deciding to lie down or have a shower.  Other times, I would chip away at something more complex by picking it up and choosing to do just one small thing to nudge it forward.

 

These days, I operate still on this premise when I'm overwhelmed.  I truly am authoring a life, and one worth living, one small good decision at a time.  I try hard not to solve tomorrow's problems today.  I try very hard to stay grounded in the present when I'm overwhelmed.  Concentrate on what it takes to do "right here, right now".

 

One of the things that maturity has brought me is the ability to lie awake in the middle of the night with my head full of dark and catastrophic thoughts (as is my nature sometimes, particularly when I'm stressed and tired) and think, "ok, SS, you don't need to solve this right now when the world seems dark and hard - the morning will bring fresh perspective and new solutions".

 

I think you are going to be a wonderful, wonderful counsellor.  You are already a wonderful human being.

 

 

Ali

 

What you wrote about our needing to deal with feelings is so true.

 

When I first went on the z-drugs, right after my husband's suicide, I couldn't sleep at all.  Later, months later after 6 sessions of unilateral ECT (electroconvulsive shock therapy and that is another story and I absolutely would not do this again but I was a bit desperate as I was not sleeping) when I did sleep, I was still on these drugs and truly there were many nights when I just looked forward to passing out, not to be in that vat of traumatic grief and psychic pain.  I just wanted to sleep and wake up to find it had been a terrible nightmare.  Denial - absolutely.  Understandable - yes.  Healthy?  No, no, no.

 

I am NOW so much a believer in Monica Cassani's wise, wise words "you cannot heal what you do not feel".  These drugs shut you down - hormonally, cognitively, affectively.  They numb your body, mind and soul.  When you come off these drugs, you are now wide open - raw and exposed - and you have to find other, healthier ways, of dealing with and healing these feelings.

 

Bessel Van der Kolk's wonderful book, "The Body Keeps The Score" is eye opening.  An astoundingly high percentage of us who are on these drugs have some traumatic history or past.  That someone with trauma would be attracted to a class of medication that is a sedative hypnotic makes sense to me - there is a lot of empirical evidence that this is the case, that people with traumatic histories gravitate to using benzodiazepines and/or sleeping medications.  But, as all of us on this thread know, this is not a healthy way forward.

 

I had to personally get some help to acquire the tools to deal with this trauma and to deal with the feelings that emerged after I came off the z-drug.  Frankly, it surprised me the intensity of the feelings after I finished my taper.  A lot of grief poured out.  But I was finally "feeling" and this was so necessary to "healing".  I've had to patiently and fearlessly wade forth into a lot of the trauma from my childhood and start to heal that inner, wounded child.  And learn that this absolutely can be done and that I am so not alone in this journey - there are so many of us with similar wounds that end up on these drugs.

 

I love Monica Cassani's www.beyondmeds.com website for that reason - she has taught me a lot about healing from both z-drugs and from trauma.  I've found others who inspire me greatly - Laura Delano springs to mind.  I personally got a great deal of free help from our local Addictions Daytox group.  Dependency is not addiction but as I sat in those group sessions, I saw a lot of people there because of trauma and the tools we were taught helped me personally a great deal in addition to the warm understanding and acceptance and frankly support that I found.  I haven't personally gone to a 12-step group but there is a great deal of support that is available there I'm told, even if our journeys  are different.

 

I'm pulling for you and I know that the longer you stay away from these medications, the easier it will become.  Work hard to find the skills you need.  There are some excellent free resources available on-line.  I'll try to come back and post a few links.

 

At 41 months off, I'm never going back.  I still have the odd stretch of insomnia.  I can't drink even a small glass of wine without waking up at 3 am unable to fall back asleep.  I have to be careful with stress levels, that much I know.  When my father passed away a few weeks ago, my sleep got rocky again.  The difference is now, I roll with it.  Even though I'm back to work fulltime, somehow, I stagger through despite not sleeping well the night before.  And eventually, it rights itself again.  I'm concentrating on basics:  eating properly, resting when I can't sleep, watching my caffeine consumption (I was able to go back to drinking coffee at about 2 years off but I still am careful), absolutely no alcohol, sleep hygiene and balance.

 

I'm finding it a tough dance at the moment to balance work and life but I'll get there.

 

Sending love, hope & healing out to you all.

 

 

Ali

[[Lo...]]

Butterfly,

 

I just finished posting this on Fliprain's support thread:

 

...I try hard not to solve tomorrow's problems today.  I try very hard to stay grounded in the present when I'm overwhelmed.  Concentrate on what it takes to do "right here, right now".

 

One of the things that maturity has brought me is the ability to lie awake in the middle of the night with my head full of dark and catastrophic thoughts (as is my nature sometimes, particularly when I'm stressed and tired) and think, "ok, SS, you don't need to solve this right now when the world seems dark and hard - the morning will bring fresh perspective and new solutions".

What you wrote about our needing to deal with feelings is so true.

 

...I am NOW so much a believer in Monica Cassani's wise, wise words "you cannot heal what you do not feel".  These drugs shut you down - hormonally, cognitively, affectively.  They numb your body, mind and soul.  When you come off these drugs, you are now wide open - raw and exposed - and you have to find other, healthier ways, of dealing with and healing these feelings.

 

Bessel Van der Kolk's wonderful book, "The Body Keeps The Score" is eye opening.  An astoundingly high percentage of us who are on these drugs have some traumatic history or past.  That someone with trauma would be attracted to a class of medication that is a sedative hypnotic makes sense to me - there is a lot of empirical evidence that this is the case, that people with traumatic histories gravitate to using benzodiazepines and/or sleeping medications.  But, as all of us on this thread know, this is not a healthy way forward.

 

....I love Monica Cassani's www.beyondmeds.com website for that reason - she has taught me a lot about healing from both z-drugs and from trauma.  I've found others who inspire me greatly - Laura Delano springs to mind.

 

...I'm pulling for you and I know that the longer you stay away from these medications, the easier it will become.  Work hard to find the skills you need.  There are some excellent free resources available on-line.  I'll try to come back and post a few links.

 

At 41 months off, I'm never going back.  I still have the odd stretch of insomnia.  I can't drink even a small glass of wine without waking up at 3 am unable to fall back asleep.  I have to be careful with stress levels, that much I know.  When my father passed away a few weeks ago, my sleep got rocky again.  The difference is now, I roll with it.  Even though I'm back to work fulltime, somehow, I stagger through despite not sleeping well the night before.  And eventually, it rights itself again.  I'm concentrating on basics:  eating properly, resting when I can't sleep, watching my caffeine consumption (I was able to go back to drinking coffee at about 2 years off but I still am careful), absolutely no alcohol, sleep hygiene and balance.

 

I'm finding it a tough dance at the moment to balance work and life but I'll get there.

 

Sending love, hope & healing out to you all.

 

 

Ali

Many thanks, @SeekingSanity for your words of wisdom. I will check out some of the readings and books you mention. I do hope you will come back and post other resources for us.

 

I love your statement "One of the things that maturity has brought me is the ability to lie awake in the middle of the night with my head full of dark and catastrophic thoughts (as is my nature sometimes, particularly when I'm stressed and tired) and think, "ok, SS, you don't need to solve this right now when the world seems dark and hard - the morning will bring fresh perspective and new solutions".

 

And sometimes it is a problem that you can't possibly solve. Many accept that more easily than some of us!

 

We also need to realize that one night of not sleeping well is not a disaster! As you say our bodies will right themselves given time. Although I hate to drag myself through the day after a bad night, it is better than being numb long term.

 

I had a disappointingly difficult sleep last night. I just could not get to sleep and was very cold. It was my third night without zopiclone and so easy to think it was related to the lack of Zopiclone. However, that is unlikely as my final dose was so small. More likely it had to do with other factors ie not eating enough yesterday especially carbs. I have been cutting way back on sugar in diet but not adding in slow carbs. Insomnia is often related to not having enough carbs. it certainly seems to be in me.

 

Most people I know have the occasional nights of poor sleep. I will be no different. No longer can I just pop a pill when I have been careless about things like caffeine consumption, internet use at night and other factors.

 

All the best in your new endeavors, SS! Many thanks again for your insights.  LL

 

 

 

[[Lo...]]

Hi Everyone, I finally jumped on Oct 20! First 2 nights were fairly good sleeps but last night difficult possibly for a number of reasons. I'm not concerned....I was not careful about good hygiene yesterday.

 

I passed on my scale and a chart to my sister. Time for her to get off Zopiclone too! She is not having any problems with Zopiclone but is concerned about the connection between Z-drugs use and Alzheimers risk. I must say that my brain has been working better since I reduced the Zop.

 

@Wannabebetter: How do you get that great red tape on your posts after jumping?

 

Thanks, LL

[[Se...]]

LL,

 

I have to be careful to get enough carbohyrdrates and protein into my diet too or I don't sleep well.

 

I try to aim for 25 gm protein at each meal.  Carbohyrdates before bedtime with some fat and protein.  I love Greek God plain yogurt with blueberries (full fat) but I can tolerate that dairy and am not lactose intolerant.  Nut butter with banana.  I make turkey meatballs (little ones) and have this also.

 

I don't eat anymore in the middle of the night.  When I was on the z-drug, I was always snacking.  Things have considerably calmed down but I still have to be aware of my blood sugar levels - I'm not diabetic or pre-diabetic but being adrenally exhausted, I couldn't manufacture the cortisol to keep my blood sugar levels consistent.  Hard boiled eggs are another quick good snack.  I make homemade hommous with chickpeas from Fat Free Vegan's blog, it is yummy.  I make it without the added tahini paste for my husband who has no added oil but it is really good with the tahini in it and a smidge of cumin powder.  Easy to make too.

 

Congratulations on the jump.  That is a very BIG day in your travels.  Very BIG.

 

I am jumping for joy for both of you, after a very long hard slogging you are finally on the next bit - the healing bit.

 

Keep chipping away at the sleep hygiene issues, particularly in early withdrawal.  I also found that acupuncture helped so much - if you can find a good acupressure site and work on the acupuncture points for sleep it might also help you.

 

I get up nowadays when I can't sleep and don't lie in bed.  I have a snack sometimes and stay up for a bit until my eyes get tired and my brain gets tired.  I used to stay in bed just to rest my weary bones but I think my sheer exhaustion has lifted over the years  :smitten: :smitten:since I jumped, I am considerably less exhausted to the bone.  Surprising to me, particularly since I've got to get up to go to work these days so if I have a bad night, I still have to go.  But I'm able to whereas before, I would have been vomitously ill from exhaustion.  I shudder to think how ill I felt.

 

: )

 

:smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:

 

Ali

[[me...]]

Hi Everyone, I finally jumped on Oct 20! First 2 nights were fairly good sleeps but last night difficult possibly for a number of reasons. I'm not concerned....I was not careful about good hygiene yesterday.

 

Huge congratulations Loveslife!!  :clap:That's great that you had a couple of decent nights right off the bat, that's a huge confidence booster. You will have bad nights here and there, but you know your body can sleep now on it's own. Sleep is still very fragile for all of us. Are you throwing out the pills, or do you think you'll be okay with them?

 

I'm so happy that so many have gotten free lately and seem to be doing pretty well! Hope everyone will keep us posted on their progress. I'm STILL dealing with dental pain, hoping desperately that my permanent bridge will solve some issues. Pain is definitely not helpful for my sleep quality and quantity.

[[me...]]

Regarding carbs--I eat a primalish diet, with pretty low carbs (aiming for about 50-60g per day), very little grains, no sugar. When I tried to go lower in carbs, it did definitely affect my sleep. I also had carb cravings in the middle of the night earlier on. From my readings, when insulin is released (carbs push out lots of insulin), the pancreas also secretes serotonin, and I was definitely serotonin deficient early on! (after jumping from serotonin re-uptake inhibitor).

 

What works for me is to eat a fairly high fat diet (full fat yogurt, cheeses, lots of butter, all parts of meat etc..), but restrict the majority of carbs to dinner time. This enables me to have plenty of energy for work and keep my weight down.

 

I think all of these drugs do affect our blood sugar/insulin system in some way, some worse than others.

[[Lo...]]

Hi again, Thanks for all the suggestions and best wishes. I'm very happy that I am at last off the Zopiclone.

 

It is interesting that others have found that a certain amount of carbs is needed for good sleep. I believe it is Chris Kresser that talks about that too. I think I will try to keep carbs very low in daytime and focus them at dinner and if necessary, bedtime.

LL, I have to be careful to get enough carbohyrdrates and protein into my diet too or I don't sleep well.

 

....I try to aim for 25 gm protein at each meal.  Carbohyrdates before bedtime with some fat and protein.  I love Greek God plain yogurt with blueberries (full fat) but I can tolerate that dairy and am not lactose intolerant.  Nut butter with banana.  I make turkey meatballs (little ones) and have this also.

 

...I don't eat anymore in the middle of the night.  When I was on the z-drug, I was always snacking.  Things have considerably calmed down but I still have to be aware of my blood sugar levels -

All this is helpful, SS. I too was eating in the middle of the night - often cookies!!! That seemed to help me get back to sleep. Of course, that has meant some weight gain in the last 6 months which I now need to get rid of.

Yogurt sounds great but I have a casein allergy. 

 

Keep chipping away at the sleep hygiene issues, particularly in early withdrawal.  I also found that acupuncture helped so much - if you can find a good acupressure site and work on the acupuncture points for sleep it might also help you.

 

I get up nowadays when I can't sleep and don't lie in bed. 

 

@SeekingSanity: I will certainly keep chipping away at the sleep hygiene. This also includes getting enough physical activity during the day! I will also see if I can find an acupuncturist.

 

I am wondering what strategies people use for getting back to sleep? Fortunately I am usually sleeping right through the night most nights. But it is frustrating on the nights that I do wake in the night.

 

Hi Everyone, I finally jumped on Oct 20! First 2 nights were fairly good sleeps but last night difficult possibly for a number of reasons. I'm not concerned....I was not careful about good hygiene yesterday.

Huge congratulations Loveslife!!  :clap:That's great that you had a couple of decent nights right off the bat, that's a huge confidence booster. You will have bad nights here and there, but you know your body can sleep now on it's own. Sleep is still very fragile for all of us. Are you throwing out the pills, or do you think you'll be okay with them? 

Thanks Meowie. yes, I was fortunate to have a couple of decent sleeps right off the bat. And I will expect that I may have some difficult patches of sleep depending on what is going on in my life.

 

I am sorry that you are still enduring dental pain. That's tough! Hope it gets better soon.

 

Regarding carbs--I eat a primalish diet, with pretty low carbs (aiming for about 50-60g per day), very little grains, no sugar. When I tried to go lower in carbs, it did definitely affect my sleep. I also had carb cravings in the middle of the night earlier on. From my readings, when insulin is released (carbs push out lots of insulin), the pancreas also secretes serotonin, and I was definitely serotonin deficient early on! (after jumping from serotonin re-uptake inhibitor).

 

What works for me is to eat a fairly high fat diet (full fat yogurt, cheeses, lots of butter, all parts of meat etc..), but restrict the majority of carbs to dinner time. This enables me to have plenty of energy for work and keep my weight down.

 

I think all of these drugs do affect our blood sugar/insulin system in some way, some worse than others.

All interesting points, Meowie. I eat Primalish too and will consider increasing fats for awhile.

 

I am having some problems with high histamine and also high oxalates just now. Lots of itchy places! My doc wonders if some of these problems will go away now that I am off Zopiclone. He says he has seen weird problems disappear in others after getting off the drugs.

 

I know that the withdrawal process affects digestion and cortisol levels etc.

 

Thanks everyone for your support. I have learned a great deal from you all.  LL

 

 

[[ca...]]

LL

Congradulations!!!!! So happy for you!!! 

:yippee: :clap: :clap:

Carem

 

[[Li...]]

Little update; I am using some zopiclone again. One day ago a half tablet and last night a quarter. I was waking up at 6 O'clock a couple of times and could not sleep after. I am planning to quit it, after several good nights. I am not worried, it is as it is.

 

At those amounts I don't think you're going to have an issue, if you were taking 7.5mg+ for days in a row then yes but a 1/4 a tablet as needed don't be ashamed or feel like you've let yourself down or feel like you've screwed up...

 

Everyone needs help some times, even after we completely WD a lot of people go back to dose occasionally!

 

Hi Zuko, I agree with you! I only used zopiclone for a short period, it helped me to get my sleep rhythm back. I am slowly improving from my depakote taper (I jumped on 30 august) , in combination with sport, I am feeling better and better. I will go fitnessing later today.

 

[[Be...]]

Today I am two year's free of Ambien. A lot of healing has happened in that time. All of the cog fog is gone. My sleep was only disturbed for the first two months. Being on the 2 ADs helped alot but the trade-off is now I have to taper them. I have some muscle pain the past couple months and urinary symptoms that I believe is from the Ambien. I still have some exercise intolerance but it's improving. Some of this is from tapering the AD too. I can tell that the healing is really speeding up at the 2 year mark. I believe this third year will be so much better. Good luck to all of you tapering. It's worth the trouble.

 

Becky 

[[Ce...]]

Today I am two year's free of Ambien. A lot of healing has happened in that time. All of the cog fog is gone. My sleep was only disturbed for the first two months. Being on the 2 ADs helped alot but the trade-off is now I have to taper them. I have some muscle pain the past couple months and urinary symptoms that I believe is from the Ambien. I still have some exercise intolerance but it's improving. Some of this is from tapering the AD too. I can tell that the healing is really speeding up at the 2 year mark. I believe this third year will be so much better. Good luck to all of you tapering. It's worth the trouble.

 

Becky 

 

Way to go Becky..this is great news. I think the worst just might be behind you. Now you can truly move on. You've come such a long way..it's truly inspirational. Thanks for sharing something so positive!