Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[ga...]]

Please, can anyone offer some encouragement?  I am down from 10 mg to only 7.7 mg of Ambien in two weeks.  It's taking forever and I really need voices of experience because then I have to tackle a taper from 1.75 mg Ativan which could take a year or more as I am kindled and very, very sensitive.  After that, there is the 60 mg of Cymbalta...goodness....getting off of that is really hard as it's in capsule form and the withdrawal stories are really scary. So, I'm feeling a overwhelmed due to my age, 64, and such a long road ahead of me.  Not to mention, the risk of getting a DUI because of these drugs.  I found that out only last week....I had no idea!

 

Any words of encouragement are welcome! 

[[me...]]

gardenlady--you are doing great! how are you feeling these days?

 

I'm sure you'll feel better as the dose of Ambien gets lower. Don't worry about the other tapers, just take things one step at a time, it's impossible to predict the future.

 

As others have said--if you are taking prescription drugs, and not "impaired", you will not get a DUI. I think we can manage it a lot better than those stupid kids that text all the time.

 

I also firmly believe that age is just a number. It is possible to be healthy and active at any age, it just might take a little more work. Don't let a stupid number determine how much you are able to heal!

[[ga...]]

For an Ambien to Valium crossover, Ashton suggests dropping the 10 mg Ambien dose to 5 mg the first night and adding 2.5 mg Valium.  She advises to do that for a week or two and then drop the Ambien and increase the Valium to 5 mg.  An initial cut in Ambien by 50% seem a huge cut that a 2.5 mg dose of Valium wouldn't be able to touch.  I am very kindled and it's taken me two weeks to cut from 10 mg Ambien just to 7.7 mg in 5% cuts and it's been horrible.

 

My doctor gave me enough Valium to do the crossover, but I'm afraid to drop to 5 mg Ambien all at once.  Wondering if I should try that or keep cutting the Ambien on it's own by 5% without the Valium.  I'm afraid my doc will be mad at me for not starting the crossover to Valium since I was the one who suggested it.  I was set to do it, but the 50% cut scared me, so I started cutting Ambien by 5% without the valium and it's brutal.  Any suggestions???  I'm afraid my doctor is going to fire me because I didn't do what I said I would with the Valium.

 

If I'm already down to 7.7 mg Ambien, should I go ahead and start the Valium tonight?  If so, how much should I take?  I've really messed this up by my fear and indecision. 

 

I'm also on 1.75 mg Ativan and 60 mg Cymbalta daily which is making everything more complicated.

[[bu...]]

Has anyone had severe itching while tapering down on Ambien?  I've never had itching like this before...it's widespread and scary.  It starts about 2 hours before I take the pill and then comes on fiercely like fire for about 2-3 hours afterwards.  It's so bad it bleeds and leaves marks.  It seems to get worse with each cut.  Wondering what others' experience has been....does it continue to get worse or better as the taper goes on?  And does it fade after jumping?

I itched my way off verything and still get fits some nights. I try to use deep breathing to distract myself from doing it so deep or keep myself up at night. It does pass, very phase that comes along does fade with time. Just try to get through it a few minutes at a time and now worry how long will it last.

[[bu...]]

Mindset and working out for the first time in 10 years has just saved my life.

 

I was in a dark place, but I can't discuss it because the topic in question is banned on this forum. You know what it is...

 

But I started listening to positive affirmations and running for 2 miles everyday, not only has my outlook changed but I've been falling asleep faster and I've dropped 3.75mg off my 15mg dose and feel good.

 

Don't let anyone tell you how to withdrawal every body is different do it in whatever size agrees with your body.

 

I should note I'm 117kg and 6'3 tall

 

But I suggest everyone of you go walking or jogging or just run up and down the stairs...

 

It really does work.

 

Going from sitting in the corner of a room rocking back and forth telling myself I'm going to die to now exercising and enjoying life is awesome.

 

I thought I couldn't exercise because of my weight, my drug use, bla bla bla, all excuses and barriers I set up to keep me "safe"

 

Same as "I need a pill" "I can't sleep alone"

 

Guess what, I slept alone for the first time last weekend too...

 

Tony Robbins said something that stuck with me, he said use your mind as a tool and control it with your soul, don't let your mind control you.

 

Ditto except that I am shorter 

[[bu...]]

OK Z friends-- I am getting fed up with the insomnia, now.  I have been hanging in there but the only 3-4 hours a night is catching up with me.  I feel sick all the time now.  And with an underlying autoimmune condition and flu season coming this exhaustion frightens me  Even the most minor obligations of the next day cause anxiety and I am up all hours and up too early.  Its the early awakening that is the worse -- sometimes its that surge sensation but not always.  Just up and depressed.

 

I have trazodone and Elavil.    In the past the Elavil and OTC stuff has disagreed with me so I am gun shy about trying anything.  I really, really did not want to deal with pills but I'm desperate and miserable.  It was not like I slept much on the taper either.

 

Do you have to work early? I struggle wth middle of night waking but grateful can go back to sleep since I don't have to be up. I tried trazodone in rehab and it was awful for me. Every anti depressant I have ever tried is awful for me. I am having some success wth alternating 5htp and melatonin and tons of mindfulness. I also recommend Jon Kabbat Zinn for those that have not checked it out!

[[me...]]

For an Ambien to Valium crossover, Ashton suggests dropping the 10 mg Ambien dose to 5 mg the first night and adding 2.5 mg Valium.  She advises to do that for a week or two and then drop the Ambien and increase the Valium to 5 mg.  An initial cut in Ambien by 50% seem a huge cut that a 2.5 mg dose of Valium wouldn't be able to touch.  I am very kindled and it's taken me two weeks to cut from 10 mg Ambien just to 7.7 mg in 5% cuts and it's been horrible.

 

Gardenlady--I really think you are going to be just fine if you updose the Valium at the same time as the cut. So you are technically doing a cross-over, NOT a cut. The BBs who have done this have been just fine with rapid cuts in Ambien. I really think it is the Ambien that is making you feel so awful (in combo with the Ativan). Ashton knows what she is doing, but crossing my fingers for you!

[[ga...]]

meowie, Rapid Ambien cuts aren't tolerable for me because I'm so kindled.  Although most people are able to get off of Ambien rapidly, I'm not able to do so....that's why I'm in such a mess.  What works for most isn't working for me.  That's why Ashton's cross taper schedule frightens me since the Ambien is reduced by 50% and replaced with 2.5 mg Valium on day 1.  I am clear that it's not technically a cut, but a cross taper.  Nonetheless, it's a 50% drop in Ambien right off the bat.  My question is, now that I'm down to 7.4 mg of Ambien from the original 10 mg, how should I start the cross taper?  I'm to see my psychiatrist tomorrow and she's expecting me to have completed the cross taper to Valium and I haven't even started...so I'm afraid she's going to get mad and fire me for not doing what I proposed in the first place....she didn't want to do the Valium crossover, but said she would since I seemed committed to it.  And then I chickened out because of the 50% drop in Ambien on day 1. 

[[me...]]

If you are not comfortable with the schedule Ashton has proposed, I guess you are really in uncharted waters. You could try putting together a slower cross-over (say add 1.25 mg Valium now, then another 1.25 mg when you get to 5 mg. Ambien?) and hope that your psychiatrist supports this. I don't think anyone here is familiar enough with the situation to advise you about crossing over on a different schedule. Have you tried updosing on Ativan or Valium at all?

[[...]]

gardenlady, I never crossed over from zopiclone to valium at all, I tapered right down on the zopiclone, by shaving little bits off the pills.  It took a long time but it worked ok for me.  There is no reason one has to stick to what has worked for others if it doesn't work for you.  Trust yourself and go with what you feel comfortable with.

[[wa...]]

I agree with kes, Gardenlady -- it sounds like you might need to hold.  I write of my own experience only.  I did NOT do well on rapid cuts and wanted to go to the ER more than once.  I cut at 5% every 2 weeks or so.  I was able to get sort of stable on the Lunesta when I held - sometimes 30 days.  I never crossed over to anything.  I had Coldturk.  Ativan years ago. 

And, it sounds like you are still on the Ativan?  All but these drugs are indeed different from one another.  Since its not a race and you are definitely working to get off the Ambien - you might consider staying at the lower dose to see how you feel.  It's going to be OK.  WBB

[[ga...]]

Thanks everyone for your kind responses.  I saw the Physician's Assistant in my psychiatrist's office today and she was much more patient and receptive to slow tapers than the psychiatrist whom I had been seeing.  I think I am going to stick to a slow taper off of Ambien for now and forget the Valium since I'm not able to cross over quickly as Ashton recommends.  We have to listen to our own bodies regardless of what others are doing or recommend.  It will be a long road, but I don't think I have much choice. 

[[ca...]]

I guess That's it. For the last few nights I have been taking crumbs and its time to jump. I haven't been sleeping much at all in the last two nights but I think that from this mini dose it would not make any difference. A long journey ahead till I recover and get my sleep back but I am so excited to finally be totally benzo free!!  Will be jumping tonight. Was on 2.5 K and 11.25 zop for a long time. Sooooo proud of myself. I already feel much better then before and know that more healing is definitely on the way.  I cannot imagin how I would have done it without the woderful support on BB.

 

 

 

[[me...]]

Congrats Carem! Best wishes on a drug-free night, I'm sure it will be uneventful, just make those pills a little harder to get. 

 

Is that everyone? Has everyone jumped at this point?!

[[ca...]]

Thanks Meowie! 

[[Se...]]

I guess That's it. For the last few nights I have been taking crumbs and its time to jump. I haven't been sleeping much at all in the last two nights but I think that from this mini dose it would not make any difference. A long journey ahead till I recover and get my sleep back but I am so excited to finally be totally benzo free!!  Will be jumping tonight. Was on 2.5 K and 11.25 zop for a long time. Sooooo proud of myself. I already feel much better then before and know that more healing is definitely on the way.  I cannot imagin how I would have done it without the woderful support on BB.

 

 

Carem,

 

I'm so proud of you too.

 

I remember the day I jumped.  I was scared but jubilant that I had finally done what seemed like the impossible.

 

I feel that day was the day I truly started down the road to health.  Yes, I had partially started down that road in 2010 when I got properly diagnosed with adrenal exhaustion and hormonal "derangement" or lack of hormones necessary to sustain life.  But things didn't truly start to improve - particularly my underlying sleep 'architecture' until I got off the z-drugs completely and my poor beleagured brain started the long winding road back to recovery.

 

Now, at 3.5 years off, my life is on a very different trajectory.  I have a life worth living.  Last night, I slept 11 hours solidly, straight through.  I could never have imagined any of this while on the medication.

 

I am profoundly grateful to have found BBs too.  I was not alone on my journey.  The love and support I had here, even though I didn't post really during the taper and first 18 months off as I was too unwell, it really sustained me.

 

I wish I had more time to come back here.  These days, now that I'm back at work fulltime, the weekends have to suffice.

 

I'm rooting for you carem.  We have quite a few members of my in person support group who managed to come off the z-drugs completely this year.  They are all doing better.

 

Resist the urge to keep these drugs in the house.  If I were you, I'd completely get rid of them - take them back to your pharmacy for safe disposal.

 

To come off 2.5 mg clonazepam is a major feat in and of itself.  I have some members of my group doing the long slow taper off this seriously difficult drug - very unwell.  To do this and also get off 11.25 mg zopiclone, that is nothing short of amazing.  You are one disciplined and smart cookie.  Things may be a bit rough while you heal but I can tell you, I wouldn't have traded one instant of my withdrawal - I got my life back and you will too.

 

Fingers crossed.  Sending love, hope and healing your way,

 

 

Ali

[[wa...]]

Don't know who "everyone" is -- I'm rooting for Gardenlady!  Congrats Carem.  Good sleeping ahead.  WBB

[[ca...]]

Thanks WBB. 

Ali- what a wonderful and encouraging post!

Yes. It is scary as I am really not sleeping much  but I am already so much better!!!!  Happier and more optimistic then I have been in years and yes also smarter I do feel my brain recovering!

11 hours of sleep!!. Now that's something to look forward to!!

I will take your advice and get rid of the pills. already did that with all the K and will soon get rid of the zop.  Great that you are working full time. I am back to working part time now with the hope of gradually doing more and more.

Lots of love

:smitten:

Carem

 

[[sa...]]

Carem I'm so envious.  I'm too chicken and haven't even started tapering (zopiclone) yet.  I have gone through ativan withdrawal a few time before and they were awful.  I think everyone who have gone through withdrawals deserve a medal.  It's nothing short of heroic to manage the symptom day after day and holding onto hope and faith.

 

My trouble is zopiclone gives me decent sleep with good dreams.  I feel relaxed and care-free after taking it, sometimes even feel happy.  It will be so hard to give up those.  It's like my current anti-depressant (albeit for just a few hours).  I've had anxiety for many years and developed depression in the last year.  Nothing I tried made me feel any better, the only exception are the GABA-boosting things.  Which I mean herbs like chamomile and passion flower.  I managed to get through everyday with those herbs and sleep at night with zopiclone.  Am I doomed?  I'm not sure my brain can ever get enough GABA by itself.  I have autism and am naturally anxious. 

[[Tr...]]

Anyone online?

[[...]]

Well done, carem.  I agree with SeekingSanity, it's best not to have any of these drugs in the house as you WILL be tempted.

sapphiremoon - yes zopiclone feel wonderful when you first start taking them, and maybe for a number of years after, but sooner or later, it turns bad on you.  You start to crave that relaxed feeling - or at least I did - in the daytime as well as at night, and I started abusing them. But then eventually, I only felt normal when I had taken them, and my anxiety got worse, not better, when I was on zopiclone long term.  In the end, only an hour or two after taking one.  That's the paradox of these drugs. They are very seductive.

[[ga...]]

Has anyone had experience tapering off of 10 mg of Ambien?  I'm down to 6.6 mg after three weeks and wondering if it gets easier or harder once I get down to 5 mg.  Hoping to make faster cuts then, but that might be a pipe dream.  I'm having to go slowly as this is my second benzo withdrawal in 2.5 years and I'm kindled. 

[[ca...]]

sappirmoon

 

I totally understand the feeling you describe on Zopiclone. I used to feel that as well- a relief of all my anxiety and a great feeling for an hour or two at night. I used to look forward to this part of the day. But- you are here which means you are aware of your need to get off it. For me- I really wasn't aware of  all the problems it was causing me in cog fog cognitive issues and general well being. I attributed all to the K. Getting off the Z was much easier for me then the k, No comparison at all and as I went down I felt much better. I actually feel much better now off the last crumbs then I did last week. Too early to talk about my sleep but for the last two nights I slept really well. A different quality to my sleep. I am so happy I got off the z. If you have any questions please dint hesitate to PM me. I would be happy to share my experience. Crossing my fingures for you.

 

Kes- Thanks

 

smitten:

 

Carem

[[bu...]]

sappirmoon

 

I totally understand the feeling you describe on Zopiclone. I used to feel that as well- a relief of all my anxiety and a great feeling for an hour or two at night. I used to look forward to this part of the day. But- you are here which means you are aware of your need to get off it. For me- I really wasn't aware of  all the problems it was causing me in cog fog cognitive issues and general well being. I attributed all to the K. Getting off the Z was much easier for me then the k, No comparison at all and as I went down I felt much better. I actually feel much better now off the last crumbs then I did last week. Too early to talk about my sleep but for the last two nights I slept really well. A different quality to my sleep. I am so happy I got off the z. If you have any questions please dint hesitate to PM me. I would be happy to share my experience. Crossing my fingures for you.

 

Kes- Thanks

 

smitten:

 

Carem

Congrats Carem! I agree, so happy to be free even if my sleep is not back to normal. And yes, k taper is THE worst so this felt so easy. I just needed a rehab center to take the control away from me and reassure me that I would not die without the drugs.

Hopefully in a few months we can both report that sleep does gradually improve. I have to really take e time to have perfect sleep hygiene, stay relaxed all night even if I don't sleep I just rest.

 

I hope that it gets easier for you and all of our buddies! 

[[GA...]]

Has anyone had experience tapering off of 10 mg of Ambien?  I'm down to 6.6 mg after three weeks and wondering if it gets easier or harder once I get down to 5 mg.  Hoping to make faster cuts then, but that might be a pipe dream.  I'm having to go slowly as this is my second benzo withdrawal in 2.5 years and I'm kindled.

 

Are you still taking the same amount of Ativan? I know I've told you nad everyone else several times, but I updosed the Ativan to help me get off the Ambien. I'm not exactly endorsing that idea, but I could sure advise you to concentrate on one thing at a time.

 

For me, it seemed to get easier as I went along. The Ativan smoothed out the withdrawal from the Ambien quite well. What kind of problems are you having?