Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[GA...]]

First night sleeping in my house alone as the parents have gone away for a weekend... I didn't sleep and then got a wave of REM and then woke straight back up which is "rem rebound"

 

Even with a 15mg Z dose

 

I never had a tolerance issue with Ativan, but with Ambien, yes. At first 10MG worked like clockwork, 45 minutes after taking I was asleep. Over a period of months and years of nightly use, it took me longer to fall asleep and I would awaken during the night wanting more. The most I ever took was 15 or 20MG but I didn't do that often because I would run out early.

 

So that's the paradox of Z-drugs, they help you to sleep for a while and then tolerance builds up to where you're probably sleeping worse than before you started them, as far as waking up during the night.

 

I wonder how much of that has to do with the ultra short half-life of the drug.

[[ga...]]

I am getting sicker each day and wonder if it's just being on the Ambien and Ativan that is causing it.  Per my doc's instruction, I tapered from 2 mg Ativan to 1.75 mg a month ago and failed on day 2 of a taper attempt of Ambien last week (see signature for details) since I know I must get off of this prior to the Ativan.  I sleep only 4-5 hours a night and wake up every morning now  at 4 am with shaking, heavy breathing, racing heart, severe anxiety and a myriad of other symptoms that don't let up all day. The dread and doom is indescribable.  I suspect it's primarily the Ambien complicated by probable kindling.  I have an appt with my pdoc tomorrow and will discuss cross taper of some kind, possibly to Valium. 

 

Any idea on what's going on? 

 

 

[[Se...]]

I am getting sicker each day and wonder if it's just being on the Ambien and Ativan that is causing it.  Per my doc's instruction, I tapered from 2 mg Ativan to 1.75 mg a month ago and failed on day 2 of a taper attempt of Ambien last week (see signature for details) since I know I must get off of this prior to the Ativan.  I sleep only 4-5 hours a night and wake up every morning now  at 4 am with shaking, heavy breathing, racing heart, severe anxiety and a myriad of other symptoms that don't let up all day. The dread and doom is indescribable.  I suspect it's primarily the Ambien complicated by probable kindling.  I have an appt with my pdoc tomorrow and will discuss cross taper of some kind, possibly to Valium. 

 

Any idea on what's going on?

 

Gardenlady,

 

It sounds very familiar.  When I was on the z-drugs, I was experiencing interdose withdrawal and tolerance withdrawal.  I was taking it, sleeping only a few hours and would be awake most of the night.  I was very ill on it in this state and when it becomes "paradoxical" like that - when you are no longer getting the "primary" effect of sleep and you ARE getting many "withdrawal symptoms" while still on it because you are in tolerance and you are effectively withdrawing from it even though you are taking it - then the only answer is a slow, slow taper off.

 

You took too big a decrease or cut and failed.  If you had gone the route of a small cut (5% or less) of your starting dose and hold in between cuts for 10 days to 2 weeks, then I think you might have adjusted better to the cut.

 

I've seen some people crossover to Valium without issues.  And some people cross over and find that it is a whole different ballgame.  You've been given some very good advice here, if I were you, I'd be open to trying a very slow taper with very small cuts and see how this goes first before you cross over to a different drug, one that you've never been on and one that you have no idea how you will react to.

 

You can do this.  The thing is, when you hit tolerance, you really only have 2 options:  go up in dose (that is madness and you can see where this leads) or start your slow taper off.  I personally drew a line in the sand and once I started my taper, I never went back up in dose.  I held until the symptoms simmered down a bit but mostly I just ensured that I was getting the little sleep that I was getting.  That was the most important thing to me.  I just wanted to not rock the sleep "boat" and find myself not sleeping at all.

 

So small cuts.  Hold in between.  Don't updose once you cut, ride it out.  Do everything you can to work on your sleep hygiene and other aspects of sleep.

 

I've got other advice that you can find upstream on this thread about sleep in general, the importance of diet and fixing your hormones.  I hope you go searching for it.

 

This is tough ride for some of us but the ONLY way to feel better for some of us is to start the taper process.  For me, going slow ensured that I slept - in fact, I slept better once my taper started.

 

Keep asking questions.  I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

 

 

Ali

[[GA...]]

I am getting sicker each day and wonder if it's just being on the Ambien and Ativan that is causing it.  Per my doc's instruction, I tapered from 2 mg Ativan to 1.75 mg a month ago and failed on day 2 of a taper attempt of Ambien last week (see signature for details) since I know I must get off of this prior to the Ativan.  I sleep only 4-5 hours a night and wake up every morning now  at 4 am with shaking, heavy breathing, racing heart, severe anxiety and a myriad of other symptoms that don't let up all day. The dread and doom is indescribable.  I suspect it's primarily the Ambien complicated by probable kindling.  I have an appt with my pdoc tomorrow and will discuss cross taper of some kind, possibly to Valium. 

 

Any idea on what's going on? 

 

 

 

It sounds like tolerance or interdose withdrawal. As I said, for me personally Ambien is much worse than Ativan, it is a harsher drug and the half-life is very short. It has to be short so you can wake up in the morning without being too drowsy. The problem comes when tolerance builds up and insead of keeping you asleep for 7 hours, it wakes you up after 3-4 hours wanting more. I don't think it's unreasonable to draw this comparison: picture a heroin addict that takes a shot and then a few hours later he's feeling sick and needs to shoot up again.

 

First, I would taper off the Ambien eve if you must updose the Ativan a bit. Ativan has an intermediate half-life, so it keeps working while the Ambien is wearing off and the sickness begins. It might not totally eliminate the sickness, but it should ease it to some degree. Once the Ambien has been tapered off, then you can slowly taper off the Ativan.

 

Also you mentioned another alternative: switching over to Valium. Valium is a long half-life drug, that is why people often use it to help them withdraw from intermediates like Xanax and Ativan. Who knows you might be able to crossover to Valium from both Ativan and Ambien. I've never taken it but some people here can tolerate and others can't. The main complaint seems to be it makes them drowsy, which sure isn't bad at night but could be during the day. The crossover has to be gradual though. It's best to talk to someone who's done it.

 

You really don't know what it's going to be like until you try it because everyone's system is a little bit different. As a general rule, it's better to withdraw from the shortest half-life drug first.

 

 

[[bu...]]

I am getting sicker each day and wonder if it's just being on the Ambien and Ativan that is causing it.  Per my doc's instruction, I tapered from 2 mg Ativan to 1.75 mg a month ago and failed on day 2 of a taper attempt of Ambien last week (see signature for details) since I know I must get off of this prior to the Ativan.  I sleep only 4-5 hours a night and wake up every morning now  at 4 am with shaking, heavy breathing, racing heart, severe anxiety and a myriad of other symptoms that don't let up all day. The dread and doom is indescribable.  I suspect it's primarily the Ambien complicated by probable kindling.  I have an appt with my pdoc tomorrow and will discuss cross taper of some kind, possibly to Valium. 

 

Any idea on what's going on? 

 

I agree wth you based on my experience. You can see my lengthy story on my blog. I wish that I had got off ambien sooner. I did klonopin first and suffered horrible all the way through. I finally quit ambien with help of a medical detox center. You can PM me if any specific questions. After just over two months off, my sleep is mildly disrupted but I have flex schedule and don't worry. I get at least 1 if not 2 3-4 hour block of solid sleep now every night plus a few more fitful. I feel so much better. I have less shakiness, mood disturbance. Still some joint and muscle aches but nothing like during withdrawal or even before!

 

 

[[ga...]]

Thanks for the kind responses.  I just returned from my psychiatrist appointment and it didn't go well.  She wasn't familiar with Dr. Ashton or slow taper (as in 5% -10% rate) and when I gave her Dr. Ashton's material, she called her "Dr. Google."  She hasn't heard about cross tapering to valium as an alternative, although she agreed to give it a try.  The problem is that she wrote me scripts only for 5 mg Ambien when I'm on 10 mg since I'm attempting to cross taper.  Since I couldn't handle the cut from 10 mg Ambien to 7.5 mg, how am I going to manage a cross taper from 10 mg Ambien down to 5 mg Ambien + 2.5 mg valium?  I'm afraid that if I can't tolerate it and have to go back up, I'll be throwing gasoline on the kindling. And I don't have my 10 mg Ambien prescription to go back to for a more gradual cut. 

 

The other alternative is to try to get the 10 mg prescription back and taper the Ambien down by 5%, but it will take forever and I'm only getting 2-3 hrs of sleep as it is.  I need to get this stuff out of my system but don't know how.  I've reached tolerance and am already in Ambien withdrawal even though I'm still taking the stuff.  I am really stumped and don't know what to do. 

[[wa...]]

Well, for me, the Lunesta was the devil I knew.  Once I figured out from BB what the hell was going on,  I weighed the pill - used my phone calculator and subtracted 5% and scraped off some Lunesta dust and weighed it until it was 5%less by weight.  My signature is all messed up -- but sometimes I waited much longer than 14 days until stable.  Yes, this did happen to me on a short acting Z drug!  My sleep was never great and still isn't but you will read all over the forum that this is par for the course.  If you are getting 2-3 hours at first -- I was like that, too, until  I got into a routine of accepting my taper and doing my little cut each night.  I never crossed over to Valium.  You sound motivated gardenlady.  Good, you can do it.  WBB

[[GA...]]

Thanks for the kind responses.  I just returned from my psychiatrist appointment and it didn't go well.  She wasn't familiar with Dr. Ashton or slow taper (as in 5% -10% rate) and when I gave her Dr. Ashton's material, she called her "Dr. Google."  She hasn't heard about cross tapering to valium as an alternative, although she agreed to give it a try.  The problem is that she wrote me scripts only for 5 mg Ambien when I'm on 10 mg since I'm attempting to cross taper.  Since I couldn't handle the cut from 10 mg Ambien to 7.5 mg, how am I going to manage a cross taper from 10 mg Ambien down to 5 mg Ambien + 2.5 mg valium?  I'm afraid that if I can't tolerate it and have to go back up, I'll be throwing gasoline on the kindling. And I don't have my 10 mg Ambien prescription to go back to for a more gradual cut. 

 

The other alternative is to try to get the 10 mg prescription back and taper the Ambien down by 5%, but it will take forever and I'm only getting 2-3 hrs of sleep as it is.  I need to get this stuff out of my system but don't know how.  I've reached tolerance and am already in Ambien withdrawal even though I'm still taking the stuff.  I am really stumped and don't know what to do.

 

It would have been nice if you'd gotten the 10MG Ambien. Remember, it's always better to have too much than too little! That takes a lot of pressure off if you have more than enough and can go at your own pace.

 

I hope you've found somebody here that has gone through a crossover to Valium. I've read several posts like that but can't remember where. You can always go to different threads all throughout BB and find what you're looking for, if not start your own thread.

 

These drugs are not necessarily interchangeable. Although they have similarities, they also have subtle differences. For example, Ambien is a hypnotic used for sleep, although it may have anti-anxiety qualities too. Xanax and Ativan are best for anxiety. Klonopin is good for anti-seizure ability and Valium is good for calming and relaxing. That is why the crossover has to be gradual.

 

It helps to have a doctor who is willing to take his/her time with the taper. It does little good to rush a person through this. Always try to get the largest dose of any drug you're prescribed because too much is better than too little.

[[ga...]]

If I shave 5% off of a 10mg Ambien, how do I collect such a tiny amount of dust?  Is it not worth trying to save until I cut a bigger amount that will leave more residue?  I may try this taper and see what happens.

 

I guess I can always call my doctor and tell her I changed my mind about the valium cross taper.  I have some 10 mg Ambien left which should give me time to test it out and see if my body can handle it. 

 

In the meantime, has anyone had experience with cross tapering to valium from Ambien and can suggest a gradual crossover schedule in case I do end up going that route?

[[wa...]]

If I shave 5% off of a 10mg Ambien, how do I collect such a tiny amount of dust?  Is it not worth trying to save until I cut a bigger amount that will leave more residue?  I may try this taper and see what happens.

 

I guess I can always call my doctor and tell her I changed my mind about the valium cross taper.  I have some 10 mg Ambien left which should give me time to test it out and see if my body can handle it. 

 

In the meantime, has anyone had experience with cross tapering to valium from Ambien and can suggest a gradual crossover schedule in case I do end up going that route?

i just scraped with a razor

[[ga...]]

I'm confused as to whether to cut 5%-10% of the pill weight or 5%-10% of the actual dosage which requires more calculating.  When Ashton recommends to cut by percentage, which is she talking about? 

[[wa...]]

I'm confused as to whether to cut 5%-10% of the pill weight or 5%-10% of the actual dosage which requires more calculating.  When Ashton recommends to cut by percentage, which is she talking about?

[/i]

 

I went by weight first so I could be accurate with the scale.  Like I said, it was SG57 helped me with calculating the actual mg dosage. Or just start a new thread in General Taper Plans WBB

[[ga...]]

Has anyone crossed over from 10 mg Ambien to valium while also on Ativan?  I need a crossover schedule for Ambien to Valium and can't seem to find one.  If I eventually do crossover to valium from Ambien, do I then taper down the valium before starting a taper on the Ativan?  My doctor won't cross me from Ativan to Valium...she's never heard of Ashton and isn't interested and only reluctantly agreed to try the cross from Ambien to Valium.

 

I'm taking 1.75 Ativan divided into 3 doses:

Morning: .5 mg

Afternoon: .5 mg

Night: .75 mg

 

So after the crossover (if I do it), I would be taking .75 mg of Ativan AND 5 mg Valium at night.  Where do I go from there?

[[me...]]

That's very strange that your doctor is willing to do the cross-over from Ambien to Valium, but not from Ativan to Valium!  Combining the two into Valium makes a lot more sense to me. Oh well, it sounds like it might work okay for you (since you are already familiar with Valium).  This table lists Valium as about half as strong as Ambien, so you would be going to 5 mg. of Valium:

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

If the cross-over works, you would taper the Ativan first, then the Valium. Always end up on the longest half-life drug last, to keep blood levels stable and avoid interdose withdrawals.

[[bu...]]

Has anyone crossed over from 10 mg Ambien to valium while also on Ativan?  I need a crossover schedule for Ambien to Valium and can't seem to find one.  If I eventually do crossover to valium from Ambien, do I then taper down the valium before starting a taper on the Ativan?  My doctor won't cross me from Ativan to Valium...she's never heard of Ashton and isn't interested and only reluctantly agreed to try the cross from Ambien to Valium.

 

I'm taking 1.75 Ativan divided into 3 doses:

Morning: .5 mg

Afternoon: .5 mg

Night: .75 mg

 

So after the crossover (if I do it), I would be taking .75 mg of Ativan AND .5 mg Valium at night.  Where do I go from there?

 

Then what you will want to consider is what is your worst time of day. This might change over time. Mine was always night and I remained on ambien while cutting klonopin. I was up to to 4 doses klonopin at one time then cut away at certain times of day and got my doses spread out more. I think I have that all on my progress log. I will go check it to make sure. Either way, pick a dose to start shaving off of, maybe the evening? You can always shift some of that evening dose into earlier. If you want to keep it all more even. It won't hurt you if you shift it around over time, you are just trying to prevent so much interdose withdrawal.

 

Hope that helps a little. It gets easier over time! Hang in there!!!

 

Did you say if you got a scale?

[[ga...]]

Yes, I did get a scale and shaved 5% off of a 10 mg Ambien pill for the first time last night.  I got less than 3 hours of sleep (that's been my pattern for weeks) and have had the shakes, racing heart, rapid breathing and feeling of doom and dread all day.  And this is just day 1 of my attempt at a gradual taper.  Has anyone else had this reaction to such a small cut at the beginning?

 

I'm still looking for a crossover schedule from 10 mg Ambien to 5 mg Valium. I am clear on the equivalencies...I just need a schedule.  I posted this same question on the Substitution Taper thread, but am not getting a response. 

 

If my doctor won't reinstate my 10 mg prescription, I may be forced to go the crossover route which I'm afraid will be like a cold turkey for me considering how my body is reacting to just a 5% cut.  I really messed up by even mentioning Ashton to my doctor since she was insulted and dismissive, not only of her, but of tapering gradually with a gram scale.  She said she'd never heard of such a thing. 

[[ca...]]

Hi everyone

 

Just a short update- Down to 1 mg from 11.25. Feeling much better. Head is much clearer and most nights I sleep ok. I do have siginifant  problems with falling asleep and somtimes fall asleep very late.  So far only use antihistamine low dos for sleep. Hope I can continue this way. Hope to jump by the end of Nov and hope so much that post jump things will not get worse.

for me- going slow works well.

Lots of love

 

Carem

[[GA...]]

I'm confused as to whether to cut 5%-10% of the pill weight or 5%-10% of the actual dosage which requires more calculating.  When Ashton recommends to cut by percentage, which is she talking about?

 

It is a lot simpler to cut by pill weight. And to cut small amounts, it might be better to rub it off with a nail file. If you cut, even with a razor, the pill might split into little pieces which are  hard to use. You could try to save the dust, although I don't know how much that matters. I bought empty gelatin capsules at the health food store to put the tiny crumbles in and threw the dust away. But then, I'm near the end of the taper and could afford to do that.

 

Like everyone has said, take this slowly and gradually.

 

 

 

[[me...]]

If my doctor won't reinstate my 10 mg prescription, I may be forced to go the crossover route which I'm afraid will be like a cold turkey for me considering how my body is reacting to just a 5% cut.  I really messed up by even mentioning Ashton to my doctor since she was insulted and dismissive, not only of her, but of tapering gradually with a gram scale.  She said she'd never heard of such a thing.

 

I don't think an immediate cross-over on Ambien would be such a terrible thing if it came to that. Ambien has such a short half-life, that you are in withdrawal from it EVERY DAY already--thus part of why you are feeling so bad. Almost all doctors (including Professor Ashton) feel that z-drugs can be cold-turkeyed without much issue, and no protracted withdrawal effects. Thus that is probably why your doctor is so dismissive of the idea. I've been arguing this point here for quite a while, but the others are adamant about tapering.

 

But it can be tapered with a benzo back up, and if not stretched out too long, could be psychologically easier, and save a few nights of disturbed sleep that would happen with a cold-turkey.  (Not that your sleep is great!)

 

Have you tried splitting your Ambien to see if you can get more sleep that way?

[[wa...]]

Hi everyone

 

Just a short update- Down to 1 mg from 11.25. Feeling much better. Head is much clearer and most nights I sleep ok. I do have siginifant  problems with falling asleep and somtimes fall asleep very late.  So far only use antihistamine low dos for sleep. Hope I can continue this way. Hope to jump by the end of Nov and hope so much that post jump things will not get worse.

for me- going slow works well.

Lots of love

 

Carem

Thats great, Carem.  Going slowly helped me, too.  Keep us posted.  WBB

[[Lo...]]

I'm confused as to whether to cut 5%-10% of the pill weight or 5%-10% of the actual dosage which requires more calculating.  When Ashton recommends to cut by percentage, which is she talking about?

Just cut whatever percent you decide on of the actual weight.

 

Here is a link that may help you understand. Do you have Excel?

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7601-excel-spreadsheet-to-calculate-dose-weights-using-a-scale/

 

I think you would do much better with a 1% per day cut. Less chance of withdrawal symptoms or at least milder ones. Very important.

 

I used manicure scissors to cut or shave off bits which I then kept in a container. Later I could find bits of the right weight. I also used little tiny baggies that I found at the Dollar Store. If I weighed something and it was not the right weight I would put it in the little baggie and mark the weight with a marker for use later. This really helped.

 

Slow and steady is the way to go IMO. All the best! You can do it! LL

 

 

[[wa...]]

This was posted by SG57 on another thread:  "My belief is the faster you taper the longer it will take to get this behind you.  How could this be?  Glutamate damage.  If you go slow, you can avoid it.  If you go fast, it tacks on a lot of time.

 

Before we begin tapering we are already damaged.  We have down regulated GABA receptors - basically we lack them and the brain cannot function without the assistance of the drug.  Slow tapering creates a slight drug shortage and a rise in the excitement level in the brain.  The brain senses this and acts to calm itself down by adding back receptors.  This is a very good thing - it is healing.  But if we go too fast we become too short of benzo, and this creates too much excitement.  At some point the brain cannot handle it and goes kind of haywire, resulting in nasty, long-lasting damage involving the glutamate system.  This is really the culprit.

 

So, to me, the goal of a taper is to stay out of glutamate damage.  Go slow enough to keep symptoms at bay - near or at zero.  If you don't you'll start accumulating glutamate damage.  You'll still heal eventually, but it is an additional, avoidable brain injury that will take much longer to heal.  And it will be a lousy, disabling experience for god knows how long - months or even years.

 

This is my understanding of the problem." 

 

The medical establishment is not clear on how these drugs, including Z drugs, may damage or alter the brain when used longterm.  So even Z drugs or shorter acting benzos, once they begin wearing off whether 8 or 12 hours - doesn't mean you are therefore done with withdrawal and soon recovered.  By such logic -- why not brush yourself off 4 days after your last Valium and say, "Ta Da - I'm OK now"  ?

 

Ashton doesn't know for sure, doctors don't know - and all on BB is anecdotal so there is no longitudinal, large test population hard empirical research.

 

So it is no service to others here tapering off of these wicked Z drugs to suggest that they'll be fine after a fast taper or cold turkey.  No one knows for sure what any of these drugs are doing to a person's brain because of genetic factors, etc. - , especially the junk generics like I was taking from a foreign pharma company now blacklisted by the FDA.  WBB

[[Ce...]]

This was posted by SG57 on another thread:  "My belief is the faster you taper the longer it will take to get this behind you.  How could this be?  Glutamate damage.  If you go slow, you can avoid it.  If you go fast, it tacks on a lot of time.

 

Before we begin tapering we are already damaged.  We have down regulated GABA receptors - basically we lack them and the brain cannot function without the assistance of the drug.  Slow tapering creates a slight drug shortage and a rise in the excitement level in the brain.  The brain senses this and acts to calm itself down by adding back receptors.  This is a very good thing - it is healing.  But if we go too fast we become too short of benzo, and this creates too much excitement.  At some point the brain cannot handle it and goes kind of haywire, resulting in nasty, long-lasting damage involving the glutamate system.  This is really the culprit.

 

So, to me, the goal of a taper is to stay out of glutamate damage.  Go slow enough to keep symptoms at bay - near or at zero.  If you don't you'll start accumulating glutamate damage.  You'll still heal eventually, but it is an additional, avoidable brain injury that will take much longer to heal.  And it will be a lousy, disabling experience for god knows how long - months or even years.

 

This is my understanding of the problem." 

 

The medical establishment is not clear on how these drugs, including Z drugs, may damage or alter the brain when used longterm.  So even Z drugs or shorter acting benzos, once they begin wearing off whether 8 or 12 hours - doesn't mean you are therefore done with withdrawal and soon recovered.  By such logic -- why not brush yourself off 4 days after your last Valium and say, "Ta Da - I'm OK now"  ?

 

Ashton doesn't know for sure, doctors don't know - and all on BB is anecdotal so there is no longitudinal, large test population hard empirical research.

 

So it is no service to others here tapering off of these wicked Z drugs to suggest that they'll be fine after a fast taper or cold turkey.  No one knows for sure what any of these drugs are doing to a person's brain because of genetic factors, etc. - , especially the junk generics like I was taking from a foreign pharma company now blacklisted by the FDA.  Who knows what was in there.  2 cents WBB

 

Thanks, WBB...great piece, good insite!...

[[...]]

Hi kes, congratulations for getting drug free! Can you talk more about what your experience with zopiclone was like, how you managed to get free of it, and how your sleep is doing? It is so helpful to have stories from those who have made it out the other side.

 

Well done all on this thread, congrats on your progress.  Sorry I haven't been around much in the past month, so didn't see meowie's post till now. 

I started on zopiclone in the middle of a breakdown, in 1999, I was very ill and had a week on the psychiatric ward of local hospital.  I wasn't sleeping at all, and was prescribed it by the psychiatrist - a very large dose -  15 mg to take every night.  I continued to be prescribed it until (can't recall exactly) but probably around 2008.  I also bought additional supplies off the internet, until the law around this was tightened up in the UK a few years ago,  as it says in my strapline I was taking massive doses at my worst.  I always wanted to come off, but my first marriage broke up, I then met my 2nd husband, and for a number of years there were very difficult issues with his ex wife and my two step daughters. 

 

I was a member of the other support forum TRAP, for a few years before it closed down.  I managed to taper down to quite low amounts a few times, but had a lot of stressful things happening, and kept reinstating.  For the last few years I've only been on very tiny amounts.  Before that, I had just about every withdrawal symptom going, the worst were derealisation, anxiety, agitation, tinnitus, palpitations, insomnia etc. 

 

I've been totally off for a while now, and I can honestly say I feel better than I have for 17 yrs.  It's not all plain sailing, I still have some very difficult times, but not from withdrawal, just having to cope with stressful speed bumps in everyday life, like we all have to. 

[[ga...]]

Once a person reaches tolerance & is experiencing withdrawal on Ambien and then starts a slow taper, do the withdrawal symptoms ever recede between cuts?  My guess is no, because withdrawal was happening at a full dose and so will continue non-stop throughout the taper.  I can't see any reason why symptoms would ever let up since even more withdrawal is going on during the taper....even at a 5% rate.  Any thoughts or experience on this?