Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Lo...]]

... I took one Cortisol Manager from Integrative Therapeutics and was then quickly back to sleep. It contains

    Ashwagandha

    L-theanine

    Phosphatidylserine

    Magnolia

    Epimedium

 

I slept almost 9 1/2 hours! Certainly a lot of that is because of the very poor sleeps the 2 nights before but I am encouraged that I have not hit the wall in this taper.

 

I have not looked up whether the ingredients in Cortisol Manager affect the GABA receptors but am willing to use it as needed to get off Zopiclone. ...

Well, I looked up the ingredients and it looks like I've messed up the withdrawal to some extent. Taurine and the ingredients in Cortisol Manager seem to all have some effect on GABA receptors. Darn!

 

I think I will play around a bit with individual ones and see what effect they have. And will try without too. Sleep is so very important to me - I just hate how I feel when sleep deprived. it really changes how I see my world and my problems. I am looking for a smooth way off Zopiclone and the herbals too but may have to bite the sour apple.

 

I will see my doctor on the 15th and I expect he will be disappointed that I am not totally off Zopiclone. LL

[[wa...]]

Don't worry about what the doc thinks.  Most of them do not understand what they are prescribing Z drugs or what it is like getting off of them and you are a pretty fast clip with the Zop -- good for you.  What matters is what you think.  Maybe stay away from supplements until you are off Zop.  WBB

[[ca...]]

LL

Hi- did you consider taking Melatonin? I have been taking the extended release (Cirkadin- not sure of spelling) on some nights and it really helps me sleep. Perhaps its worse it to research this  a bit.

Good luck with the end of your tapper. You have been doing great and giving me much hope as to our ability to tapper directly of Zop.

Carem

[[Lo...]]

Don't worry about what the doc thinks.  Most of them do not understand what they are prescribing Z drugs or what it is like getting off of them and you are a pretty fast clip with the Zop -- good for you.  What matters is what you think.  Maybe stay away from supplements until you are off Zop.  WBB

You are right on, wannabebetter. I think I have done well. I will certainly try to stay away from the supplements too. Keep for emergencies ie exhaustion which raises cortisol. Now that I am home and my kids and grandkids have departed, life should be on a more even keel. LL

[[Lo...]]

LL

Hi- did you consider taking Melatonin? I have been taking the extended release (Cirkadin- not sure of spelling) on some nights and it really helps me sleep. Perhaps its worse it to research this  a bit.

Good luck with the end of your tapper. You have been doing great and giving me much hope as to our ability to tapper directly of Zop.

Carem

Thanks, Carem. I am confident that we both can do direct tapers. Actually I did a direct taper once already some years ago with just eyeballing the cuts. Then jumped when I felt ready. I don't remember any problems. Stupidly I went back on Zopiclone in the next big crisis in my life. I hope I will know better in the future. I am working on the Mindfulness meditation free online course to help me handle acute stress better. Hope it helps.

 

I do take the slow release melatonin by Douglas labs. My naturopath feels I should given my age and history of cancer. Melatonin production decreases with age.

 

You are doing well. Any symptoms? Don't push too fast.

[[ca...]]

LL

As far as the Zop tapper- the sx are so far not really bad. I get about 6 hours of sleep most nights which is not bad. I just started with the Melatonin and it really works well for me so far.

Do you know if it will become less effective with time? I have been taking it on alternate days so far as I was afraid I will get used to it. I do have sx which are cognitive. My Psychiatrist tells me its from the K but that I cannot heal from the K until I am off the Zop- so here is a big inventive to get off I am actually seeing some cognitive improvement as I am tappering of Z.

I am going quite fast I think - probably about 1.5 % a day. I figure as long as I can keep my 6 hours of sleep I can continue cutting- but maybe I am wrong. Would love to hear your advice on this.

Thanks!

Carem

[[Lo...]]

Hi Carem, I agree with you that you can probably continue with taper as long as sleep is not suffering or there are any other troublesome symptoms. I found that I needed to slow down a bit at times and at lower amounts. However I had quite a busy and challenging summer with lots of things ie travel, sleeping in different beds sometimes with snorers in same room, lots of family visiting etc. So perhaps I would have done better without these circumstances. However, on the other hand perhaps it all was a good distraction. Will see this fall.

 

I have taken melatonin without a break. It would perhaps be better to do things that would stimulate natural production of melatonin ie low blue lights in the evenings.

 

I have had some cognitive sx but found they were from toxins in my system...I have SIBO and when I was trying to boost probiotics and prebiotics my head got very foggy. I am much better now without them. I don't doubt that the benzos cause problems too.

 

Good luck!  LL

[[De...]]

Can anyone tell me if there is a group for those of us also taking opiates?  I don't want to start a thread if there is already one going.

 

[[Lo...]]

Sorry Deejay, I am not aware of any group for opiates. Withdrawing from them, I think, is very different. LL

[[bu...]]

LL

As far as the Zop tapper- the sx are so far not really bad. I get about 6 hours of sleep most nights which is not bad. I just started with the Melatonin and it really works well for me so far.

Do you know if it will become less effective with time? I have been taking it on alternate days so far as I was afraid I will get used to it. I do have sx which are cognitive. My Psychiatrist tells me its from the K but that I cannot heal from the K until I am off the Zop- so here is a big inventive to get off I am actually seeing some cognitive improvement as I am tappering of Z.

I am going quite fast I think - probably about 1.5 % a day. I figure as long as I can keep my 6 hours of sleep I can continue cutting- but maybe I am wrong. Would love to hear your advice on this.

Thanks!

Carem

 

Carem, alternating nights sounds like a good strategy. Do you sleep less without melatonin? I seem to but I have only tried one night without it so far. I barely slept at all two nights ago so last night I took it again and also 1 capsule of 5htp and I slept great! Over 8 hours with only two times up to use the bathroom! I also feel a little sick from withdrawal? Allergies? Both?! So I will try going without again soon when I feel better. Overall I don't feel nearly as bad as I did during klonopin withdrawal so that is a plus! If you can keep going slow, go for it. Gives your body time to adjust. I figure I will be slammed for awhile since I did the ambien withdrawal fast.

 

Sending very one sleepy night wishes!!!

[[ca...]]

Butterfly (Jewels ?)

First of all- yes this is much easier then the K tapper- what a releif!!!!

when I started with melatonin about 3 weeks ago it worked like a charm and I slep all night but I have been taking it now for several days with no break  and its less effective. Last night I slept only 2.5 hours although I did take it. Its the first time I had so little sleep. I should try sleeping without melatonin for a few days with the hope it will work well again. Some evenings I go out for a walk and it seems to help and of course after bad nights usually a good night will come.  I will look into 5htp.  Read a abit about it- has some drug interactions issues- perhaps better to wait with it until I am totally off.  We seem to be in a very similar situation I dont think you are having it worse then me because of the fast tapper.

Wishing everyone good sleep tonight!!

Carem

[[...]]

Hello, I am nearing my 60 day mark and things seemed to be progressing until a few nights ago. My sleep was ok, I actually fell asleep and slept decent on most nights. All of a sudden I'm only getting 2 hours, then crashing and getting more for a night. Does this seem like a normal thing after it improving before. My other worst symptoms were severe dr and a horrible floaty/dizzy/detatched feeling. I still have that, but it's improved a lot. I'm adjusting anti thyroid medication as well, which can mess with sleep a lot. It's the reason I was put on ambien in the first place. I'm just trying to sort it all out and not get too upset. I spent the first whole day after not sleeping sobbing. I just thought I was making so much progress and without sleep it all seems to be taken away.

[[me...]]

Hello, I am nearing my 60 day mark and things seemed to be progressing until a few nights ago. My sleep was ok, I actually fell asleep and slept decent on most nights. All of a sudden I'm only getting 2 hours, then crashing and getting more for a night. Does this seem like a normal thing after it improving before. My other worst symptoms were severe dr and a horrible floaty/dizzy/detatched feeling. I still have that, but it's improved a lot. I'm adjusting anti thyroid medication as well, which can mess with sleep a lot. It's the reason I was put on ambien in the first place. I'm just trying to sort it all out and not get too upset. I spent the first whole day after not sleeping sobbing. I just thought I was making so much progress and without sleep it all seems to be taken away.

Erp--congrats on getting this far, you are on your way! What I have found is that sleep has been progressively getting better and better. I now get about 7 hours (not continuous, chopped up) almost every night, which seems incredible based on where I was even a month ago, when I considered 5 hours a decent night. Last night I slept for 6 1/2 hours straight, amazing!!

 

But what I have found is that my sleep is very "fragile". That is, if I do anything that upsets the apple cart, I can easily slip into 3 hours or less of sleep. I have found through careful journaling that there is always a reason--be it alcohol, chocolate, estrogen, rebound from OTC meds, always something. I've put together a list of things that can derail sleep and hope to get it posted this weekend sometime (it's a long list!). Think about what you've done over the last day or so, and have confidence that your sleep is on an upward trend, just a few hiccups along the way.

[[bu...]]

Butterfly (Jewels ?)

First of all- yes this is much easier then the K tapper- what a releif!!!!

when I started with melatonin about 3 weeks ago it worked like a charm and I slep all night but I have been taking it now for several days with no break  and its less effective. Last night I slept only 2.5 hours although I did take it. Its the first time I had so little sleep. I should try sleeping without melatonin for a few days with the hope it will work well again. Some evenings I go out for a walk and it seems to help and of course after bad nights usually a good night will come.  I will look into 5htp.  Read a abit about it- has some drug interactions issues- perhaps better to wait with it until I am totally off.  We seem to be in a very similar situation I dont think you are having it worse then me because of the fast tapper.

Wishing everyone good sleep tonight!!

Carem

Carem,

I found the same due to the continued use of melatonin. Last night I only took the 5htp and slept off and on for about 9 hours! It was the first day that I had time to sleep in in recent weeks. I feel the same. I have a bad night two and then I will catch up soon enough.

I get the floaty feeling someone mentioned in the next post and sometimes mild depression but mostly just bad headaches and muscle aches. I had that from klonopin taper as my last symptoms to improve so I am guessing that will be true again.

Someone mentioned on these threads somewhere, if you had health problems before like migraines, they will be the most persistent withdrawal symptom.

 

I am just grateful that I sleep most of the time. I can get out and do most of life as normal just maybe a little more carefully.

 

I am also super vigilant abut diet and overstimulation. I should not even be on here this late! So off I go to read from a real power book, no electronics!

 

Sleepy dreams to all.

Butterfly Jewels

[[Lo...]]

...What I have found is that sleep has been progressively getting better and better. I now get about 7 hours (not continuous, chopped up) almost every night, which seems incredible based on where I was even a month ago, when I considered 5 hours a decent night. Last night I slept for 6 1/2 hours straight, amazing!!

 

But what I have found is that my sleep is very "fragile". That is, if I do anything that upsets the apple cart, I can easily slip into 3 hours or less of sleep. I have found through careful journaling that there is always a reason--be it alcohol, chocolate, estrogen, rebound from OTC meds, always something. I've put together a list of things that can derail sleep and hope to get it posted this weekend sometime (it's a long list!). Think about what you've done over the last day or so, and have confidence that your sleep is on an upward trend, just a few hiccups along the way.

Thanks Meowie. I look forward to your chart. I feel the same way. It does not take much to upset the apple cart! Good sleeps are glorious! Poor ones to accept and move on. I really like your idea of journaling and keeping a record.

 

It is encouraging to me to hear that your sleep has improved so much. Congrats!!! I too have fragile sleep but am getting some very good sleeps. I will likely jump soon - after being away next weekend.

 

I am also super vigilant about diet and overstimulation. I should not even be on here this late! So off I go to read from a real power book, no electronics!

Sleepy dreams to all.

Butterfly Jewels

Yes, monitoring and moderating stress and stimulation levels during the day is very important too. I have learned so much along the way in this journey.  LL

[[Lo...]]

Hi again, In case you were wondering...I just wanted to tell you all about SeekingSanity. She has gone back to work and is doing very well. We will miss her altho she may drop by sometimes.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=141.0

[[Li...]]

Hi brave taperers,

An update from me; sleeping is fine, that's the good news.The bad; Thanks to a jump off Depakote one and a half week ago (this is another medicine I used for a long time) I feel depressed and my tummy is not feeling good either. I am really having a tough period, even swimming does not help a lot. Perhaps I have a tip for those with sleeping problems, it is an app I have on my Iphone which I use to fall asleep; It is called "sleep pillow". It contains a lot of sounds, like rain, waves, birds etc. etc.

It has a timer too. That's my penny for today...good luck!

[[me...]]

Okay, I finally posted my list of things that can worsen insomnia:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=164920.0

 

Please add anything you feel is missing!

 

An update from me; sleeping is fine, that's the good news.The bad; Thanks to a jump off Depakote one and a half week ago (this is another medicine I used for a long time) I feel depressed and my tummy is not feeling good either. I am really having a tough period, even swimming does not help a lot.

Lightspacer--sorry to hear the jump from Depakote has been hard. It seems like that is a tough one to get off of. You could possibly think about reinstating at a very small amount if it gets unbearable.

[[Lo...]]

Okay, I finally posted my list of things that can worsen insomnia:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=164920.0

 

Please add anything you feel is missing!

Many thanks, Meowie for sharing the list of things that can worsen insomnia. Very valuable. I have discovered a number of them myself but don't always pay heed to them!

 

Now, I am wondering...have you found ways of dealing with the insomnia when you mess up and insomnia does happen. I know that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure but sometimes we mess up.

 

I am wondering if you would be willing to share what you do when insomnia happens for whatever reason. Any tricks to getting back to sleep or getting to sleep in the first place?

 

Many nights I sleep right through with no wake ups. Glorious! But the nights where I do wake up may or may not be problematic. I don't know what it is - high cortisol, low blood sugar but my body quickly tells me it ain't going back to sleep. Other nights I go to the bathroom and crawl back into bed and I just know I will go back to sleep quickly. I have that sleepy feel rather than the charged feeling.

 

Last night was 4 1/2 hours. Urrrggghhh! I have some problems with histamine - itchy eyes and runny nose - and they were going full force as well as the hyper feelings. Seasonal? Who knows.

 

Any tips would be gratefully appreciated.  LL

[[wa...]]

I have been practicing the "no plan" plan for sleeping which is apparently working pretty well and I am a life long insomniac.  My primitive brain gets more anxious when I start practicing sleep hygiene, reading about it, etc. perseverating over it and all of that stuff backfires.  I tried all those disciplines before benzos -- I even tried hypnosis and I don't recall anything helping then, either.  This is the insidiousness of the Z drugs, of course.  They really did the trick for my sleep for a long time.  Ativan, Elavil, then Ambien - then Lunesta all took the work out of sleep.  To my detriment, of course.

 

However, remarkably I have been getting some sleep - not great and all over the place time wise but the lower I go on the L the less problems I am having compared to several months ago.  I have no idea why, really, and I am not going to speculate.  I'm just going with it.  I am eating and drinking when and what I want.  I am on the computer or watching TV or reading right up until lights off.  All no, nos.  My non insomniac hubby does all kinds of stressful stuff and has some life problems, to be sure -- but once he lies (lays?) down, he's out.  I want to be like that.  He doesn't think about sleep ever except that he'd like to sleep later most of the time.

 

Maybe it will be tougher after I jump -- but I am not thinking about it now.  Why should I worry now?  The only 2 consistent sleep issues for me are early morning commitments (like MD appointments) and physical pain.  I have a little prayer i practice that works for me 99% of time if I find myself struggling. 

 

One of the things I've learned on the forum is how different we all are while tapering.  WBB

[[me...]]

Now, I am wondering...have you found ways of dealing with the insomnia when you mess up and insomnia does happen. I know that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure but sometimes we mess up.

 

Oh how I wish I had a good answer for that! In the past it was always flurazepam, or when that ran out, Ambien. Ate too much chocolate? just pop a pill and you're good!

 

Even OTC meds such as Benadryl are too unpredictable now. So basically I just suck it up and hope I have a good book. Make a note in my journal and promise to never do it again.

 

My sleep is always divided--very, very rarely do I get through the night without having about 2 hours of awake time in the middle of the night. I just expect it and go with the flow, read a book until I feel sleepy again (hopefully!). I do suspect it may have something to do with blood sugar and cortisol, but I haven't figured out the answer yet. If I go into a "couch coma" after dinner, it is almost guaranteed that I will not be able to get to sleep for quite a while, and my sleep will be light and fractured. And that appears to be related to eating a larger number of carbs at dinnertime.

 

I'm reading Why Isn't My Brain Working right now and it is very interesting, I'll have more comments on it when I'm done.

[[Lo...]]

Yes carbs do relax and make me sleepy. For some time now I have been having a banana before bed. It helps sleep but I have gained weight around the middle! Sometimes I would resort to carbs in the night too if I woke and couldn't get back to sleep. Again, not a good idea! I am not trying to lose the belly fat!

 

Please do share your thoughts on "Why isn't my brain working" as you go through it - perhaps as a PM if not of general interest. I will start reading again...during the day rather than before sleep.

 

LL

[[Se...]]

Hi everyone, so sorry I've been missing from this thread for awhile.  I'm glad that someone chimed in to explain that I went back to work full-time after 8 years (yikes!) a month ago and I've been struggling to adjust to this brave new world.

 

I am so glad to see that in my absence, so much good advice has been dispensed!  Perhaps I should stay away more often!

 

All kidding aside, I'm going to make a concerted effort to be here more regularly.  Certainly, if I've learned anything about this journey off z-drugs these past four years, it has been that I couldn't have done it without the help of all those who went before me (and sadly with me).

 

At now 40 months off, I've made some amazing gains in the past few months.  In particular, I found out about how the calcium supplement (in the form of calcium ascorbate or Vitamin C) was really causing my intense muscle pain, the worst of my withdrawal symptom since month 18 off zopiclone.

 

In a few short weeks after I discontinued the calcium and added a few other muscle pain supplements (I outlined this in a thread on the Protracted board), my pain started to significantly lessen.

 

By the beginning of August, I was well enough to look into a position that was posted for a job quite near to my home (a 1 minute commute) and strangely, I interviewed almost immediately and they offered me the job on the spot.  No one was more surprised than me!  I hadn't worked since my late husband's suicide in November of 2008 and had gone through so many trials and tribulations on the health front since that time, not the least of which was my z-drug withdrawal journey.

 

I have to say though that once the muscle pain started leaving, I could tell that I had really healed significantly in the past year since I had my first ever windows in month 23.  So many things have improved, not the least of which is my sleep.  Despite going back to work full-time, my sleep has been rock solid except for one night and thankfully that was last weekend - the long weekend - where I had a few days of intense muscle pain that prevented me from sleeping properly.

 

I'm up reasonably early (most days I sleep until 7 am) and out the door to start work for 9 but I've managed quite a few earlier starts without issue.  I'm hitting the pillow at night pretty darned early - most nights I'm heading for bed around 8:30 pm and asleep by 9:30 or so.  So most nights, I'm sleeping straight through, usually 10 hours or more.  I'm dog tired by 5:00 pm but I'm managing and the stress is dropping away as I can clearly see that I am able to keep up cognitively for the most part.  I'm not doing brain surgery or advanced software development but that's ok.  My brain could be more optimized, I'm tired on the weekends, but I'm very, very grateful to be well enough - seemingly suddenly but in truth it has taken me 3 years to get here.

 

But the one thing I wanted to say is that my sleep really did improve, year over year.  The first 16 months were quite rocky - good nights and bad stretches - but slowly, every so slowly, my sleep consolidated and the bad nights started to be few and far between.  In my 2nd year, my sleep continued to improve and altough I still had ragged stretches of multiple nights, even weeks, where I might be up in the middle of the night, by the end of 24 months, I was starting to have some nights where I would sleep straight through and some where I slept for 12 hours or more solid.

 

This past year, between 24 and 36 months, this trend just continued to solidify.  Most nights I slept straight through or if I did wake up, I went right back to sleep.

 

Since January of this year, I've also decreased my Trazodone - I'm now down to 25 mg from 100 mg on 1 January 2016.  I'm aiming to be off completely by year's end but I'm in no rush.  I know I'll do it.  At that point, I will be off all psychoactive medications completely - yeah me - for the first time in 8 years.

 

It has been a long, long road back to health.  Making the decision to come off and to STAY OFF the z-drugs and let my brain heal was the greatest gift I could have ever given myself.  Getting properly diagnosed in 2010 and treated for hormonal "bankruptcy", adrenal exhaustion and going on bio-identical hormones after hitting menopause saved my life.  It made it possible for me to sleep again - it restored my underlying sleep architecture.  I see so many hormonally deranged people these days, they end up on benzodiazepines, z-drugs and antidepressants when they need to balance their hormones.  Don't get me started!  Other things that have helped me?  Judicious use of supplements (0.5 mg liquid melatonin at bedtime, 5-HTP), my muscle pain supplement protocol (see the protracted thread) and BenzoBuddies, a very great gift.

 

So, I won't be a stranger and I'm holding out an olive branch of sorts - if I can go back to work at 55 after 8 years of not working and total health collapse, including multiple hospitalizations and 6 ECT treatments in the first year after losing my husband, not to mention being polydrugged with psychiatric medications against my will, then I firmly believe that we can all heal.

 

There is life after z-drugs.  I promise!

 

Sending love, hope and happiness your way,

 

:smitten:

 

Ali

[[Lo...]]

Yes carbs do relax and make me sleepy. For some time now I have been having a banana before bed. It helps sleep but I have gained weight around the middle! Sometimes I would resort to carbs in the night too if I woke and couldn't get back to sleep. Again, not a good idea! I am now trying to lose that fat!

 

Please do share your thoughts on "Why isn't my brain working" as you go through it - perhaps as a PM if not of general interest. I will start reading again...during the day rather than before sleep. I don't retain as much when in the twilight zone!

 

LL

[[Lo...]]

So, I won't be a stranger and I'm holding out an olive branch of sorts - if I can go back to work at 55 after 8 years of not working and total health collapse, including multiple hospitalizations and 6 ECT treatments in the first year after losing my husband, not to mention being polydrugged with psychiatric medications against my will, then I firmly believe that we can all heal.

 

There is life after z-drugs.  I promise!

 

Sending love, hope and happiness your way,

 

:smitten:

 

Ali

I am so happy for you SeekingSanity. You are such an inspiration to others here. Thank you so much for all the help and support you have given to me and others. I really do hope you will check back in on occasion. All the best in your new life! LL