Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[ca...]]

I am really bad at keeping a sleep hygiene. Should probably start working on it more. I used to be much better at it. One thing that I believe helps me is taking a long walk in the evening.  I notice I have an easier time falling asleep after a walk.I must admit I am taking naps.. I haven’t been able to nap since I started the z and now I can for a short time probably half an hour. It a joy and a life saver as I feel so refreshed after it. Eventually I will reconsider naps.. Its just too good now.When I really have to function the next day I take Benedryl or Melatonin. They seem to work if I take them once in a while. My great relief and joy is that my cognitive functions are returning as I am getting of this evil. Can't wait to be off. I got a name of a CBT expert on sleep. I should probably set an appointment with her. I am just so tired of going to experts and getting treatment. Some how I just hope the sleep issue would resolve itself.

You do pottery!! How wonderful. I would love to take a class of pottery one day. You are very lucky to be doing something you enjoy so much!!!!!

Hugs

Carem

 

[[Lo...]]

Hi Carem, Yes, I find it hard too to be disciplined re sleep hygiene. You did not mention caffeine. I had a 23andme test done and it shows that I have a gene variant that means that I metabolize caffeine very slowly. I really should not be drinking it. One of my daughters and one nephew cannot have a drop of it or they won't sleep. Another daughter of mine also does not touch the stuff. When she tried it to cram for an exam it made her very hyper.

I think I found a CBT course online. It was not much money. Maybe $25. I think it was good. Will try to find it again!

[[al...]]

Save your money. CBT for insomnia doesn't work for withdrawal insomnia. Been there and done that. I found that it actually made things worse. If it can help you at all, it will only do so after you have recovered and only dealing with behavioral-based insomnia. Just ride this out and sleep will get better on its own. I am now falling asleep right away and so will you.

[[ca...]]

Thanks! That was my gut feeling WD insomnia feels very different and I do assume its chemical. So good to hear you are sleeping well!

[[ca...]]

LL

Sorry- missed your question on caffeine. I try to limit my intake but don't avoid it all together. Its just too difficult.. I take my coffee in a mix of decaf and regular coffee most days. sometimes I take two of these during the morning.  When I am tired or need to concentrate I take just coffee but limit myself to a cup.  I do not drink coffee in the afternoon. I have been wondering how long after I drink it it would still influence my sleep and should try to see if there is a pattern between drinking coffee and sleeping.

 

I am encouraged by how well Alohafromhawaii and Butterfly are doing after z tapper and just got a PM from a buddy who's husband just got off Ambien and is sleeping really well. I think we will be just as lucky. Have some trouble sleeping but nothing horrible.I really believe it. 

 

[[Se...]]

Save your money. CBT for insomnia doesn't work for withdrawal insomnia. Been there and done that. I found that it actually made things worse. If it can help you at all, it will only do so after you have recovered and only dealing with behavioral-based insomnia. Just ride this out and sleep will get better on its own. I am now falling asleep right away and so will you.

 

I second aloha's sentiments here - the insomnia from withdrawal (or tolerance withdrawal while you are on the z-drug) is a vastly different beast from other types of insomnia.

 

I'd love to see more research on this.  Sigh.  More research on benzos and gaba and glutamate in general.

 

The good news?. Once you get off the drugs and get through the rebound insomnia period your sleep will get better.  I promise.  My sleep has consolidated month over month and year over year and these days, I can go to bed and sleep through the night, sometimes when I'm tired I can sleep 10-12 hours straight through.

 

The bad news?  The initial period when you are in acute withdrawal after jumping can be very tough.  Even during the PAWS period (Post Acute Withdrawal) which I honestly feel stretches to the first 18 - 24 months off these drugs can be rocky.  Typically with good stretches followed by periods where sleep unravels a bit for a while, then good stretches.  Sort of like waves and windows.  As time goes on, the good stretches start lasting longer, the bad patches are shorter.

 

Things that definitely helped me with my sleep during my taper and post-jump withdrawal recovery journey?

 

1.  Absolutely No Caffeine A big no-no in my estimation.  Whether or not you have a gene variant that inhibits your ability to elminate caffeine from your system after ingestion, you should stay await from CNS stimulants entirely.  I was off the bean for the entire time I tapered and for 18 months afterward.  The same generally goes for other stimulants eg chocolate, green tea, regular tea, kava, ginseng, rooibos

 

2.  Get some bright light first thing in the morning.  If you can, invest in a SAD lamp that delivers 10,000 lux and use it when you wake up, first thing.  This is incredibly effective at resetting your circadian rhythms, boosting serotonin levels and helping your body to naturally start regulating your wake/sleep cycles.  Particularly helpful for us in the northern latitudes

 

3.  Vitamin D.  I personally use 4,000 IU and have based this on an inexpensive blood test and the advice of my functional medicine specialist.  The ChangePAIN protocol for muscle pain advises 5,000 IU.  I'm a small person, my blood levels are optimal at 4,000 IU.  I use SISU brand which they recommend.  Dr. Gominak has a wonderful article on Vitamin D which should be relabelled as the sleep hormone as it has wide ranging health benefits.  I have read about others having issues with Vitamin D in withdrawal and I often wonder what brand they are using and what type.  You need to be using Vitamin D3.  Reading her article is an eye opener - it is well written, easy to read and understand.  Crticially important.

 

http://drgominak.com/vitamin-d-hormone.html

 

4.  Hormone Balancing.  I cannot emphasize this enough.  I have written extensively on here about my journey back to health and the first step, before tackling the z-drugs, was to get properly tested and fix my extreme hormonal depletion.  My functional medicine specialist uses the Meridian Valley 24-hr urine panel.  I retest every 12-18 months.  Based on these quantitative results, I was placed on bio-identical hormones in 2010 and I honestly never looked back.  Moods rock solid despite z-drug withdrawal.  No depression, no anxiety.  Best of all, the basics for sleep were restored - the fundamentals were fixed.  So when I went off the z-drugs after figuring out they were wreaking havoc, my adrenals were able to heal and my other hormones were balanced so I could sleep.  I would never have made it back to health, back to work after 8 years off, had I not done this.  In all my health journey, I consider this step to be the foundational one.

 

5.  Judicious use of supplements.  For me, that includes 0.5 mg of melatonin (more is NOT better for this hormone), 5-HTP (an amino acid that helps your body make more serotonin), magnesium (again I use SISU brand, I take 1,000 mg spaced out during the day as per the ChangePAIN muscle pain protocol).  I take these at night.  The melatonin should be taken sublingually a couple of hours before bed.

 

6.  Get enough protein so that your body has the building blocks to make neurotransmitters necessary for sleep.  I try to eat 25 grams of good quality protein at each meal.  Also a good snack before bedtime, something with protein, fat and complex carbohydrates to help keep your blood sugar levels consistent while you are sleeping.  People often awaken in the early hours of the morning because their blood sugar levels drop and the brain has no resident energy stores so your brain wakes you up to eat.

 

7.  Exercise.  I couldn't exercise for the longest time, I had an inability to recover from exertion, much like fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue patients had.  I believe this was due to my mitochondria being severely impaired due to hormonal depletion and the z-drugs which contribute to hormonal depletion because you never drop into the deep, restorative stages of sleep where hormones are synthesized.  As soon as I could, I integrated exercise into my regime.  If you are like me, this has to be done incredibly slowly.  If you can't walk, try gentle chair yoga or yoga for trauma (Lindsay Wilson has a wonderful Facebook account with lots of links for yoga for healing trauma).  Just do what feels right for you.  There is a wonderful writer who recounts her journey to cope with chronic illness and energy deficits who posited the "spoon" theory of energy balance.  You only have so many spoons each day - you use them up as you exert yourself.  Don't overspend your spoon account.  Make small but obtainable exercise goals and don't beat yourself up the days you cannot exercise.  Every new day is a fresh opportunity to try again.

 

8.  Try to find some source of emotional support.  The times I don't sleep well these days at 3-1/2 years off, I find are the times where I'm emotionally upset about something.  For me, emotional support has come from a variety of places.  I started an in-person support group in my city for people coming off of benzodiazepines and/or z-drugs.  We meet via Meetup's software once a month at a local church.  There are lots of us z-drug sufferers there, it has been a great source of support, education and sharing.  I also headed back for some counselling a year ago, that made a big difference to my stress levels.  Together, my counsellor and I have concentrated on augering small elements of control in an otherwise largely uncontrollable situation.  So much of this healing journey is beyond our personal locus of control.  She is benzo-wise, has a background in addictions counselling - a godsend I personally believe as we can start to dig away at the reasons why I ended up on these drugs to begin with.  I don't believe I have an addictive bone in my body yet I do know that after my husband's suicide, part of me simply wanted to sleep to escape my reality.  And it was the one thing that my body - in full flight or fight mode - could not do.

 

9.  Don't be afraid of judiciously trying something non-benzo/z-drug for sleep.  I personally used Trazodone to help me get through this period.  Now that I'm off and largely healed, I've started to taper the Trazodone and that is going well.  I am doing this very slowly because I have a healthy dose of respect and fear of tapering off antidepressants and I know the key to success is to go slowly.  But I wasn't afraid of using them and I'm personally glad I did.  Others have used other older antidepressants like low dose tricyclics, I personally don't do well on these medications, Trazodone is the only AD that I can safely use.  Some use the older antihistamines.  Some use them on an as-needed basis only.  I think that you have to carefully evaluate this with your doctor and decide what is best for you and what works for you.  I just wouldn't be afraid of examining these alternatives but I personally would stay away from other types of "sleeping pills" like the newer Belsomra, for instance, as I think that these drugs come with a lot of unknowns.  Ditto for the antipsychotics like Seroquel which I believe are also very problematic.  None of these are good for long term brain health, even the antihistamines are problematic.  But in the shorter term, if you are in dire straights and needing help, I would work with your doctor to see what might get you through the initial rebound insomnia and PAWS insomnia.  Just work with the minimum amount you need - more is not necessarily better. 

 

The more I'm reading on the benefits of judicious amino acid therapy, the more I'm interested.  Dr. Kelly Brogan has a wonderful website and I am thoroughly enjoying her book "A Mind of Your Own".  Also Dr. Sara Gottfried's book "The Hormone Cure".  Interestingly, both of them are proponents of yoga.  Dr. Brogan has a recent excellent post about the benefits of Kundalini yoga and I'm so interested in this personally, I'm adding it to my list of things I'd like to do to help myself on my health and personal growth journey going forward.  I also love, love, love Monica Cassani's blog, www.beyondmeds.com and her Facebook page - so much great information there about all facets of this withdrawal journey and recovery.  I've gotten very interested in medicinal herbs and botanicals and am starting to read about the healing power of plants and enthnobotany - I have a feeling that this might be a new passion of mine going forward.  Chris Kresser, one of my personal health guru heroes, has a free e-book available on his website, chock full of good tips on better fundamentals for sleep:

 

https://chriskresser.com/free-opt-in/

 

Wow.  This has turned into a rather long diatribe.  I apologize.  I'm so busy these days being newly back to full-time work and trying to find a work-life balance in addition to being on the final leg of my withdrawal healing journey.  Mostly healed now.  Still some small issues, some pockets of insomnia at times, some intense muscle pain here and there but on balance, so very much better than even at the beginning of this year.  Healing happens.  Of that I am 100% sure.

 

Sending love, hope & sleep out to you all.  So much progress this year for so many of you - I'm so freaking proud of us all.

 

 

Ali

[[Se...]]

I also love this post from last winter:

 

"Came across a lovely article from www.hearthsidehealing.com, a combined practise featuring acupuncture and counselling (husband and wife) in Portland, Oregon.

 

Thought some of you might enjoy it, especially the 14 minute video on their website on healing Qi Gong practices specific to these issues.  As a buddie with adrenal fatigue, I can very much relate.

 

Hope the new year brings renewed energy to all of us!

 

Here is a link to the original on their website with the video embedded.  Enjoy!

 

http://www.hearthsidehealing.com/winter-depression-and-healing-adrenal-fatigue/

 

----------------

 

Winter, Depression and Healing Adrenal Fatigue

December 29, 2015 by hearthside healing

 

The winter settles in, deep, dark and cold.  For some of us this can be a deeply hard time as we descend into sadness, lethargy, exhaustion and depression.  For most of our time as humans, the winter has been a challenging time for those in temperate climates.  Plant life dies down and the cold weather brings people indoors to sit beside the long fire, sharing stored reserves of berries, roots and game until the light months and new plant growth makes foraging possible and hunting easier.  For many traditional people, there was always a question of if there would be enough.  Enough food.  Enough wood for the fire.  Enough warm clothes and enough adequate shelter.  And from those questions there was often uncertainty.  Worry.  Fear.

 

The emotion of fear is processed in the limbic system and specifically in the thalamus and the amygdala of the brain.  In the human brain the two almond shaped amygdalae are responsible for storing memories that are related to emotional events and crisis.  So while the thalamus is responsible for detecting and relaying information from our senses, our amygdala is responsible for integrating emotional events and crisis situations and specifically is involved with the development of the fear emotion.

 

The limbic system also contains the hypothalamus, a key part of the brain that is responsible for sending hormonal messages to the pituitary gland that in turn signals the adrenal glands to activate and produce cortisol and adrenaline.  When under stress the adrenals produce adrenaline that activates the sympathetic nervous system, triggering the fight, flight or freeze response.  Soon the heart rates goes up while blood pressure and blood sugar levels rise.  While this is a useful response to dangerous situations, it can become deeply depleting when one is constantly stressed, or when previous trauma makes us hypersensitive to stress.

 

Cortisol is released by the adrenals as a stress response as well.  Initially this is a good thing as cortisol converts protein into energy and counteracts inflammation.  But if cortisol levels remain high this hormone starts to break down muscle and bone, slows down cell tissue repair and regeneration, impairs digestion, absorption and metabolism.  Eventually it weakens the immune system and the potential for chronic illness rises.

 

When our adrenals are taxed by excessive stress and poor lifestyle choices over long periods of time, we start to develop adrenal fatigue and exhaustion.  Here are some of the symptoms:

 

Depression

Morning fatigue

Poor memory

Inflammation

Increased allergies

Insomnia

Sugar and stimulant craving

Irritability

Sadness

Exhaustion

Knee and back weakness

Pain issues

Weight gain

Decreased libido

 

Chinese Medicine, the Winter and Depression

 

In Chinese medicine, the symptoms of adrenal fatigue have long been known and have been associated with insufficiency of kidney energy.    In this ancient system, the kidneys are associated with “jing”, the essential energy that we inherit.  Some of us are born with a strong supply and we are naturally imbued with vigor and dynamic energy.  For others, we are born with less essential energy and reserves can be depleted more easily.

 

When we party too hard, stay up late at night too often, don’t sleep enough, eat poor foods and take in stimulants and drugs that burn up our kidney essence for long periods of time, we start to wear out and age early.  We feel increasingly fatigued, exhausted and depressed.  We start to slip cognitively and lose agility and mental acuity.  We can develop autoimmune diseases, insomnia, arthritis or go through menopause early.  We get increasingly sad and tired.

 

Integrative practitioners may diagnose this as adrenal fatigue or adrenal exhaustion. Traditional Chinese practitioners would recognize this as Kidney yin deficiency and recommend rebuilding food and herbs, lots of rest, quiet, reducing stimulation and meditative practices such as qi gong.  Think of the winter and what it is asking.  It asks for sleep, rest, nourishing broths and warm fires.

 

In Chinese theory the kidneys are also associated with the winter season and the  emotion of fear.    In this darkest time of the year, we can start to feel deep feelings of inadequacy, how we are not measuring up, what we lack, that there is not…enough.  For some that doubt, worry and fear takes over and settles in like the deep winter as sadness, as depression.  We feel sunken and disconnected.

 

But in Chinese theory, the winter also presents a time when we can strengthen and rebuild our deep storehouse of energy.  This is a period of natural quiet, stillness and darkness that calls out to us to sleep more, rest and restore our energy.  The winter is an opportunity to address our depletion, our sadness and exhaustion and start to rebuild our good energy.

 

Nature and the Healing Power of Deep Stillness

 

In the natural world, the land is dormant this time of year.  The animals conserve their energy and some hibernate.  Annual plants have died back and perennials turn to store their energy in their roots. I remember one winter I spent in Minnesota, I walked out into a deep snowy plain circled by leafless deciduous trees.  A barn owl swooped noiselessly from the dark sky and I listened intently to the beautiful hidden silence of the winter.  This is the silence of the deep winter.  The stillness of the Earth at rest.  If we can sit with this stillness, it is deeply nourishing.  Just as fields need to lay fallow periodically, the body also needs periods of deep rest, to turn off the noise and confusion, the many distractions from our true hearts.

 

The modern world does not let us easily embrace this time of year.  We are forced into working two jobs, swing and graveyard shifts, made to stay artificially alert and awake with florescent lights and energy drinks.  We stimulate ourselves with video games, blockbuster movies, high impact aerobics, red bull and the go go hum of modernity.  We cannot easily connect to the nourishment of winter silence and so we get more depleted, recede into deeper wells of exhaustion, sadness and anxiety.

 

We often treat exhausted “kidney yin deficiency” depression with stimulants, sugar and antidepressants that may prop us up a little while longer while our body is calling out to us, crying.  Shuffling around post synaptic serotonin will not address that underlying need for quiet, for rest, and for nourishment.

 

For those of us who have fallen into these places of deep exhaustion its key to rebuild our “kidney jing”; to nourish and to resupply our well of deep energy.  Here are some ideas for healing:

 

1- Take time off.  If you have become deeply out of balance due to deficiency;  its best to treat yourself as if you were sick.  Can you take time from your work life to nourish? A couple weeks?  a month?  Several months?  This is impossible for many people.  But if it is possible, or if you can reduce your load and stress level, your body will thank you.

 

2-  Use your time wisely:  Often when we are depressed we want to distract ourselves with activities that can also be depleting.  We often exhaust ourselves in how we live our daily lives; giving away energy via draining people, toxic work environments, and negative media.  Shifting from depleting activity to nourishing activity is key.  Key ways to spend the day include reading uplifting books, doing a craft (knitting, sewing), playing music, spending time in nature breathing fresh air, drinking gentle herbal teas, cooking nourishing meals, spending time with good friends, family and enjoying funny movies.

 

3-  Move gently:  When we become depressed or experience insomnia sometimes we are told to get more exercise by running or doing heavy aerobic activity.  This type of exercise can actually deplete us more and its better to engage in gentle movements such as walking, gardening, stretching and gentle bicycling.

 

4-  Sleep more.  When your basic essence gets tapped, one of the best ways to replenish is to sleep more.  Getting into bed around 9 or 10 and sleeping until 7 or 8 is wonderfully rejuvenating.  For many people with underlying deficiency, this also comes with a feeling of being wired and often having insomnia.  If that is the case, then spend the time you would be sleeping doing restful exercises, visualizations and meditation.  Avoid any screen time at night.

 

5-  Nourish.  Bone broth is likely the best way to bring yourself back from these depleted states because it is filled with nourishing marrow and healing gelatin.  Adding key healing herbs to your broth will help strengthen yourself at the core.  Medicinal mushrooms such as maitake, shitake and lion’s mane are very helpful for restoring core energy.  Astragalus and codonopsis are both also very helpful for strengthening the immune system and improving energy levels without being overly stimulating.  (These can be purchased at Mt. Rose herbs.)  Outside of bone broth, it is key to support our bodies with nourishing food such as stews, casseroles sweet potatoes, squash, fish, black and kidney beans.  Eliminating processed foods, sugar, caffeine, alcohol and tobacco can go a long way to allowing our body to restore.

 

6- Get Acupuncture.  One of the best ways to heal long term adrenal fatigue is to heal the body at a core level.  Acupuncture is incredibly helpful for those who have been depleted and exhausted by long term stress, and especially if there is a component of trauma involved.  Studies have pointed to its efficacy for helping those who have been diagnosed with PTSD- which often can lead to adrenal exhaustion due to the body always being on high alert.

 

7-  Consult an integrative practitioner.  If symptoms like this persist it is important to receive a medical consult.  Unfortunately most mainstream medical practitioners do not generally recognize adrenal fatigue unless it is quite severe (Addison’s disease)  but integrative practitioners such as naturopaths often do more in depth testing to determine if there are issues with adrenal functioning.  Please make sure you consult a doctor if symptoms like this persist.

 

8- Practice Qi Gong or Gentle Yoga.  Qi gong means the cultivation of good energy and vitality and is an ancient Chinese practice of self-healing.  There are some great basic videos out there for beginners as well as teachers, classes and workshops to learn wider skills.  Both gentle yoga and qi gong encourage the body to heal and to restore vital energy.  A large part of these activities include gentle rhythmic deep restorative breathing.  Daily healing practices of at least 10-20 minutes a day helps restore that energy and centers us in wholeness and relaxation.

 

Conclusion

 

Depression that is due to exhaustion from long periods of stress, trauma, excessive activity, anxiety, and poor food choices almost always coincides with physical manifestations such as poor sleep, pain, autoimmune ailments, cognitive fog, allergies, frequent colds and poor immunity.

 

When the body starts to signal us with these ailments, it is asking for deep systemic change; to change how we walk in this world.  This is not depression that can be easily solved by a medication or by talking it through.

 

These are symptoms that are asking us to change and transform at a core level.  In essence our body is asking us to rest more, to find quiet and stillness.

 

Our body is sending us signals that we are taxed, overstretched and burdened.  The current patterns aren’t working and the challenge is not only to listen to our body, but to make needed changes as well.

 

--------------

 

Such lovely, lovely thoughts.  How I admire the principles of Chinese medicine."

 

 

Ali

[[me...]]

Yeah - i had to often take the whole 10mg in one night, too.  The pain would break through 1/2 a tab.  I thought for sure I'd  have to also take the nausea med but didn't have to.  It's like the pain receptors gobble up the opiod and you can't get high or nauseous.  If it is an infection, of course the amox.  I hope that works for you.  Get some probiotic 8 hours apart from the amox.  WHy not cephalosporin?  Just wondering.  WBB

 

Last night I was finally able to sleep on oxycodone, and get a reasonable amount (6 hours). I guess my body has adjusted, before it was always a trade-off (take the Oxy and be comfortable, but get little sleep, or be in pain, with chance of getting to sleep. Pain sucks. During the day I can get by with OTC meds most of the time, fortunately, so that should help stave off dependence?

 

Now at 54 hours of antibiotic, hoping it will kick in soon. If I could afford an implant or two, I'd have this tooth yanked without hesitation. I have no idea why they use amoxicillin, but it is the go-to antibiotic for both my dentist and endodontist.

[[bu...]]

I also love this post from last winter:

 

"Came across a lovely article from www.hearthsidehealing.com, a combined practise featuring acupuncture and counselling (husband and wife) in Portland, Oregon.

 

Thought some of you might enjoy it, especially the 14 minute video on their website on healing Qi Gong practices specific to these issues.  As a buddie with adrenal fatigue, I can very much relate.

 

Hope the new year brings renewed energy to all of us!

 

Here is a link to the original on their website with the video embedded.  Enjoy!

 

http://www.hearthsidehealing.com/winter-depression-and-healing-adrenal-fatigue/

 

----------------

 

Winter, Depression and Healing Adrenal Fatigue

December 29, 2015 by hearthside healing

 

The winter settles in, deep, dark and cold.  For some of us this can be a deeply hard time as we descend into sadness, lethargy, exhaustion and depression.  For most of our time as humans, the winter has been a challenging time for those in temperate climates.  Plant life dies down and the cold weather brings people indoors to sit beside the long fire, sharing stored reserves of berries, roots and game until the light months and new plant growth makes foraging possible and hunting easier.  For many traditional people, there was always a question of if there would be enough.  Enough food.  Enough wood for the fire.  Enough warm clothes and enough adequate shelter.  And from those questions there was often uncertainty.  Worry.  Fear.

 

The emotion of fear is processed in the limbic system and specifically in the thalamus and the amygdala of the brain.  In the human brain the two almond shaped amygdalae are responsible for storing memories that are related to emotional events and crisis.  So while the thalamus is responsible for detecting and relaying information from our senses, our amygdala is responsible for integrating emotional events and crisis situations and specifically is involved with the development of the fear emotion.

 

The limbic system also contains the hypothalamus, a key part of the brain that is responsible for sending hormonal messages to the pituitary gland that in turn signals the adrenal glands to activate and produce cortisol and adrenaline.  When under stress the adrenals produce adrenaline that activates the sympathetic nervous system, triggering the fight, flight or freeze response.  Soon the heart rates goes up while blood pressure and blood sugar levels rise.  While this is a useful response to dangerous situations, it can become deeply depleting when one is constantly stressed, or when previous trauma makes us hypersensitive to stress.

 

Cortisol is released by the adrenals as a stress response as well.  Initially this is a good thing as cortisol converts protein into energy and counteracts inflammation.  But if cortisol levels remain high this hormone starts to break down muscle and bone, slows down cell tissue repair and regeneration, impairs digestion, absorption and metabolism.  Eventually it weakens the immune system and the potential for chronic illness rises.

 

When our adrenals are taxed by excessive stress and poor lifestyle choices over long periods of time, we start to develop adrenal fatigue and exhaustion.  Here are some of the symptoms:

 

Depression

Morning fatigue

Poor memory

Inflammation

Increased allergies

Insomnia

Sugar and stimulant craving

Irritability

Sadness

Exhaustion

Knee and back weakness

Pain issues

Weight gain

Decreased libido

 

Chinese Medicine, the Winter and Depression

 

In Chinese medicine, the symptoms of adrenal fatigue have long been known and have been associated with insufficiency of kidney energy.    In this ancient system, the kidneys are associated with “jing”, the essential energy that we inherit.  Some of us are born with a strong supply and we are naturally imbued with vigor and dynamic energy.  For others, we are born with less essential energy and reserves can be depleted more easily.

 

When we party too hard, stay up late at night too often, don’t sleep enough, eat poor foods and take in stimulants and drugs that burn up our kidney essence for long periods of time, we start to wear out and age early.  We feel increasingly fatigued, exhausted and depressed.  We start to slip cognitively and lose agility and mental acuity.  We can develop autoimmune diseases, insomnia, arthritis or go through menopause early.  We get increasingly sad and tired.

 

Integrative practitioners may diagnose this as adrenal fatigue or adrenal exhaustion. Traditional Chinese practitioners would recognize this as Kidney yin deficiency and recommend rebuilding food and herbs, lots of rest, quiet, reducing stimulation and meditative practices such as qi gong.  Think of the winter and what it is asking.  It asks for sleep, rest, nourishing broths and warm fires.

 

In Chinese theory the kidneys are also associated with the winter season and the  emotion of fear.    In this darkest time of the year, we can start to feel deep feelings of inadequacy, how we are not measuring up, what we lack, that there is not…enough.  For some that doubt, worry and fear takes over and settles in like the deep winter as sadness, as depression.  We feel sunken and disconnected.

 

But in Chinese theory, the winter also presents a time when we can strengthen and rebuild our deep storehouse of energy.  This is a period of natural quiet, stillness and darkness that calls out to us to sleep more, rest and restore our energy.  The winter is an opportunity to address our depletion, our sadness and exhaustion and start to rebuild our good energy.

 

Nature and the Healing Power of Deep Stillness

 

In the natural world, the land is dormant this time of year.  The animals conserve their energy and some hibernate.  Annual plants have died back and perennials turn to store their energy in their roots. I remember one winter I spent in Minnesota, I walked out into a deep snowy plain circled by leafless deciduous trees.  A barn owl swooped noiselessly from the dark sky and I listened intently to the beautiful hidden silence of the winter.  This is the silence of the deep winter.  The stillness of the Earth at rest.  If we can sit with this stillness, it is deeply nourishing.  Just as fields need to lay fallow periodically, the body also needs periods of deep rest, to turn off the noise and confusion, the many distractions from our true hearts.

 

The modern world does not let us easily embrace this time of year.  We are forced into working two jobs, swing and graveyard shifts, made to stay artificially alert and awake with florescent lights and energy drinks.  We stimulate ourselves with video games, blockbuster movies, high impact aerobics, red bull and the go go hum of modernity.  We cannot easily connect to the nourishment of winter silence and so we get more depleted, recede into deeper wells of exhaustion, sadness and anxiety.

 

We often treat exhausted “kidney yin deficiency” depression with stimulants, sugar and antidepressants that may prop us up a little while longer while our body is calling out to us, crying.  Shuffling around post synaptic serotonin will not address that underlying need for quiet, for rest, and for nourishment.

 

For those of us who have fallen into these places of deep exhaustion its key to rebuild our “kidney jing”; to nourish and to resupply our well of deep energy.  Here are some ideas for healing:

 

1- Take time off.  If you have become deeply out of balance due to deficiency;  its best to treat yourself as if you were sick.  Can you take time from your work life to nourish? A couple weeks?  a month?  Several months?  This is impossible for many people.  But if it is possible, or if you can reduce your load and stress level, your body will thank you.

 

2-  Use your time wisely:  Often when we are depressed we want to distract ourselves with activities that can also be depleting.  We often exhaust ourselves in how we live our daily lives; giving away energy via draining people, toxic work environments, and negative media.  Shifting from depleting activity to nourishing activity is key.  Key ways to spend the day include reading uplifting books, doing a craft (knitting, sewing), playing music, spending time in nature breathing fresh air, drinking gentle herbal teas, cooking nourishing meals, spending time with good friends, family and enjoying funny movies.

 

3-  Move gently:  When we become depressed or experience insomnia sometimes we are told to get more exercise by running or doing heavy aerobic activity.  This type of exercise can actually deplete us more and its better to engage in gentle movements such as walking, gardening, stretching and gentle bicycling.

 

4-  Sleep more.  When your basic essence gets tapped, one of the best ways to replenish is to sleep more.  Getting into bed around 9 or 10 and sleeping until 7 or 8 is wonderfully rejuvenating.  For many people with underlying deficiency, this also comes with a feeling of being wired and often having insomnia.  If that is the case, then spend the time you would be sleeping doing restful exercises, visualizations and meditation.  Avoid any screen time at night.

 

5-  Nourish.  Bone broth is likely the best way to bring yourself back from these depleted states because it is filled with nourishing marrow and healing gelatin.  Adding key healing herbs to your broth will help strengthen yourself at the core.  Medicinal mushrooms such as maitake, shitake and lion’s mane are very helpful for restoring core energy.  Astragalus and codonopsis are both also very helpful for strengthening the immune system and improving energy levels without being overly stimulating.  (These can be purchased at Mt. Rose herbs.)  Outside of bone broth, it is key to support our bodies with nourishing food such as stews, casseroles sweet potatoes, squash, fish, black and kidney beans.  Eliminating processed foods, sugar, caffeine, alcohol and tobacco can go a long way to allowing our body to restore.

 

6- Get Acupuncture.  One of the best ways to heal long term adrenal fatigue is to heal the body at a core level.  Acupuncture is incredibly helpful for those who have been depleted and exhausted by long term stress, and especially if there is a component of trauma involved.  Studies have pointed to its efficacy for helping those who have been diagnosed with PTSD- which often can lead to adrenal exhaustion due to the body always being on high alert.

 

7-  Consult an integrative practitioner.  If symptoms like this persist it is important to receive a medical consult.  Unfortunately most mainstream medical practitioners do not generally recognize adrenal fatigue unless it is quite severe (Addison’s disease)  but integrative practitioners such as naturopaths often do more in depth testing to determine if there are issues with adrenal functioning.  Please make sure you consult a doctor if symptoms like this persist.

 

8- Practice Qi Gong or Gentle Yoga.  Qi gong means the cultivation of good energy and vitality and is an ancient Chinese practice of self-healing.  There are some great basic videos out there for beginners as well as teachers, classes and workshops to learn wider skills.  Both gentle yoga and qi gong encourage the body to heal and to restore vital energy.  A large part of these activities include gentle rhythmic deep restorative breathing.  Daily healing practices of at least 10-20 minutes a day helps restore that energy and centers us in wholeness and relaxation.

 

Conclusion

 

Depression that is due to exhaustion from long periods of stress, trauma, excessive activity, anxiety, and poor food choices almost always coincides with physical manifestations such as poor sleep, pain, autoimmune ailments, cognitive fog, allergies, frequent colds and poor immunity.

 

When the body starts to signal us with these ailments, it is asking for deep systemic change; to change how we walk in this world.  This is not depression that can be easily solved by a medication or by talking it through.

 

These are symptoms that are asking us to change and transform at a core level.  In essence our body is asking us to rest more, to find quiet and stillness.

 

Our body is sending us signals that we are taxed, overstretched and burdened.  The current patterns aren’t working and the challenge is not only to listen to our body, but to make needed changes as well.

 

--------------

 

Such lovely, lovely thoughts.  How I admire the principles of Chinese medicine."

 

 

Ali

 

Thanks for sharing this! The past couple of winters i am finally learning to embrace this restorative time. I planned my jump off ambien and now prednisone with winter rest time and the longer darker days are helping me to get that extra broken up sleep and to take it easier on myself.

 

I also got to read your out from the other day with the reminders, thank you for coming back reassuring us. I am finding my healing is much like it was from klonopin, Windows and waves. My sleep in uneven, my pain uneven, but I am grateful that I can see slow improvement and that I sleep in 3-4 hour chunks almost every night!

 

I am making a lot of progress also recognizing what stress triggers me to want drgs again. I am practicing noticing, telling myself that i don't need to come up wth stories about how bad the pain is,meow ling it will last. I justbtrynto breathe through that moment and usually I get back to sleep. I don't even have any medications in hand other than Tylenol. I would have to go to an ER if I decide that I am in pain bad enough. I prefer it this way. If I had kept pain killers, I would now be a pain killer addict instead of benzos.

 

The one thing I need to get better at is to get rid of the small amunt of caffeine and chocolate that I consume. Those are still my crutches. I am not drinking coffee usually only first thing. The other night I drank decaf after dinner and that kept me up the first few hours having to pee  so warning just don't drink much if anything after dinner!

 

Wishing us all healing and long comfy sleeps!!!

[[Se...]]

Butterfly,

 

My heart goes out to you during your prednisone taper.  I understand that this is a very difficult drug to come off.  I've only been on it for my subacute thyroiditis episodes decades ago.  I was so ill during that time that I do not remember the prednisone specific withdrawal symptoms, just the thyroid illness.  I literally melted down, lost 25 lbs in a month each time the inflammation/episodes occurred.  Terrible, terrible.

 

For some, winters are a difficult time.  Short days.  Here in the Pacific northwest, low light levels and rain for days on end.  It can be depressing.  I bought a light box years ago and used it starting October through April, first thing in the morning.  It really helped.

 

I love the idea of resting and restoring during this time.  Nesting.  Cleaning and repairing.  Trenching in and hibernating.  Slow foods.  Hot baths.  Wool socks.  Flannel PJs.

 

I think that during my recovery from withdrawal, I didn't take time to celebrate the seasons.  I just staggered through.  So many years where I didn't celebrate birthdays or special occassions.  This year it is different.  I'm getting going now for Christmas.  I have a bit of bandwith now, reserve that I haven't had for years really.  I'm glad to see my interest in life rise up in my soul again.  As my energy returns, so has my enthusiasms.  I don't yet have boundless energy but I think that will come as I continue to heal.

 

One small milestone recently marked a new level of healing.  The other weekend, I was able to nap during the day for an hour.  This never happens.  I haven't been able to nap for years - not at all.  So the return of my brain's ability to sleep, the return of my brain's sleep architecture, that's very big news.

 

I'm now 40 months off and still healing but so, so much better.  Looking back, I can see my trajectory now.  The first 24 months were brutal.  The next 12 months were tough in a different way, very uneven, very wavey and windowey but flashes of real promise.  Then at 38 months, a real breakthrough when I stopped the calcium supplements, lowered my 5-HTP and added L-Tyrosine.  I think the addition of L-Tyrosine and the lowering of my 5-HTP gave my brain a much needed dopamine boost.  My muscle pain started to dissipate when I dropped my calcium out.

 

And in the background of the last 10 months has been my steadily chipping away at decreasing my last psych drug, Trazodone.  Now down to 25 mg.  This past week my father passed away and I increased my Trazodone to 50 mg but last night was able to go back down again. The emotional stress of his passing and my family has caused my withdrawal symptoms to flare up - I awoke this morning with terrible burning skin pain again on my lower right leg and this week I couldn't sleep due to right side pain - but I can feel that it won't last and already after the last two nights of good sleep, my energy ebbing back into my body.

 

The one thing I am consciously doing is not overloading myself.  When I'm not working these days, I take it very easy.  On the weekends, I try to get lots of rest.  I have so many undone chores but still I make myself rest.  I lie down even if I can't nap.  I putter around in my PJs.  I give myself permission to be "lazy" and I try not to beat myself up about not getting things done.

 

I am trying very hard to practise gentle self care.  Not to worry about what other's think.  To try to find small things that make me happy and practise gratitude for my body's ability to heal given the right building blocks.  I am not a machine, although when I was little, I wanted to be one.

 

When I wrote my success story last year, I said I was launching SeekingSanity 2.0.  I feel that I've been able to heal so much since then.  In many ways, I feel poised to turn a bit of a corner and launch SeekingSanity 3.0 next.  More spiritual.  More accepting of myself.  Less critical.  More loving.

 

I've found lately that I'm in a big of a strange and magical time in my own personal development.  It is hard to put this into words but it feels like a sea change.  I know that my time in withdrawal has made this possible and it is hard to articulate exactly how profound a change it feels to me.  I'm waking up.  Life feels full of possibilities.  The mantra which popped into my head earlier this year - "happy, joyous, free" - was definitely a harbinger of things to come.  This phrase, these words, have looped through my brain this year even as I've slogged away through some difficult waves.

 

It is as if the endless pain of withdrawal has forged my spirit and I've emerged as a very different person.  Stronger.  More optimistic.  More resilient.  Less afraid.  More sure of myself and my essential goodness.  It feels like a magical time ahead.  Not pain free - no life is pain free - but I think trouble free in the sense that my spirit feels lighter these days.  On good days, I feel positively shimmering.  Only way I can describe it.  Not much is clinging to me.

 

So good to be able to share this with all of you.  I feel, on a very deep level, that this is possible for all of us.

 

Here in Canada, it is Thanksgiving weekend.  I feel profoundly grateful to be given this second chance to author a purposeful life, one small step at a time.  Thankful for the chance to share this journey with all of you, my fellow zedders.

 

Sending healing thoughts and prayers out to you all.  Wish only restful sleeps ahead.

 

 

Ali

[[wa...]]

Thanks Ali for taking the time to offer the rest of us a detailed account of your journey.  You were one of the first to hold my hand during the beginning.  I think it is important to accept the time it may take to recover from w/d from a Z drug.  This is one of the biggest things I take away from your posts.

 

I think on BB and on Facebook that there persists a belief that these shorter acting benzos are somehow easier to come off of.  I read this all the time.  I've stopped wondering why then has it been so hard for me.  I think combining the toxicity of the drug with age, genetics and history of med use can all lead to a rough road.  Also the length of time allows it to get into our deeper tissues and organs.  Every night exposing our brain to being altered chemically -

 

I have an ordinary sinus infection today and dealing with ordinary aches and pains now.  It is very hard to know what to pathologize and blame w/d sometimes.  Although i wish I could sleep more, I can't believe I got off the L stuff.  It seemed like the most remote possibility 1 year ago.  And then the tolerance started.

 

I am so grateful for folks like Ari and MTFan and others who light the path for the rest of us.  I have incorporated  some of MTFan's and Ari's disciplines into my routine, all the time thinking, "Well if they got through this, I can."  Aloha Dave, G33K, Texas et al were all so helpful.  (sorry if I forgot someone - cog fog pretty bad).  Interestingly,  some early posters on this thread have jumped and not returned.  It's been years.  I imagine this tough chapter is a thing of the past for them.  Amazing thing to consider.  WBB

[[ca...]]

Ali

 

Thank you so much for these helpful and inspirational messages. They were very  meaningful for me

 

So sorry to hear your dad passed away. Sending you my love and my thoughts.

 

You gave us such sound advice. Thanks!

a few quick question.

You mentioned rebound insomnia- Did this start during tapper of after you jumped. (It seems like you did a slow tapper?)

Could you elaborate a bit about 5htp. How much did you take?. before sleep? did it help? what are the risks and side affects. WHere I live for some reason its not approved. I wonder why. Whats L- Tyrosine and how does it help?

Trazedone. - asked my DR for it- he said no as it works on Gaba. do you know any thing about this?? He suggested Mirts (Remeron ) and Seroqual. Both are problematic and both are associated with weight gain (Which is a problem for me as I am finally losing the weight I gained on the Klonopin and really really dint want this back). -I am still considering it as a backup plan- would love to hear how it effected you regrading sleep cognition and weight.

I am taking now an antihistamine every night. (very low dose) Its probably not healthy. How would you think about it?

 

Your last post to butterfly was deeply inspirational for me. I am trying to reconnect to my life and my lust for life as I am progressing with healing. I really want to feel life and celebrate it.  And yes- me too!!! I can nap for the first time in year. I know its not good for my night sleep but it is wonderful and gives me such a sence of health!!

 

 

Carem

[[...]]

Starting my taper from 15mg zopiclone tonight reducing by 1/4 of a 3.75mg per week

 

So I should be off the drug in 16 ish weeks

 

But I'm hoping I can stabilise at a lower dose maybe 7.5mg for a few weeks and 3.75mg for a few weeks

 

so maybe 20-25 weeks

[[Rh...]]

Hello. I would love to hear from people who have taken z-drugs solely or primarily for insomnia.

 

After getting off of benzos, my sleep deteriorated to such a degree that I could barely function (I'm a teacher), so I tried zopiclone thinking that at least there might be less withdrawal when I stopped. Silly me. Zopiclone, as everyone here probably already knows, is super evil. For me, stopping the benzo I was on was a snap, with almost no withdrawal. Why in heck am I so affected by the z-drug, after only a month of use?

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear from other insomniacs who suffer or suffered tachychardia (rapid or pounding heartbeat) as a primary withdrawal symptom. This happens almost as soon as I go to bed if I don't take the Z. Sleep is NOT possible with this symptom.

 

Thank you.

 

PS What are the alternatives for using a long-acting substitute in a taper, the way someone doing a benzo taper can use diazepam? Has anyone used diazepam in this way to get off a z-drug? (I kind of assume it wouldn't work.) Since eszopiclone has a longer half-life, do people use that for a substitution taper?

 

 

[[ci...]]

Rhubarbpie, I was on z-drug for insomnia for 2.5 years for insomnia. I am 30 months CT. I had heart palps my first year off, mostly occurred when I would lay down. I had 2 EKGs, and wore a heart monitor , 1 EKG was abnormal, one was normal and heart monitor  test was negative. The heart palps lasted for about one year and no longer occur now.

 

My first year off, my sleep was broken sleep maybe 2-4 hours during 24 hour period. Now it is erratic sleep , no pattern some nights sleep 4-7 hours broken sleep, or some nights no sleep and some nights 6-8 hours. Eventually, with more Time I believe it was continue to improve.

[[wa...]]

Hello. I would love to hear from people who have taken z-drugs solely or primarily for insomnia.

 

After getting off of benzos, my sleep deteriorated to such a degree that I could barely function (I'm a teacher), so I tried zopiclone thinking that at least there might be less withdrawal when I stopped. Silly me. Zopiclone, as everyone here probably already knows, is super evil. For me, stopping the benzo I was on was a snap, with almost no withdrawal. Why in heck am I so affected by the z-drug, after only a month of use?

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear from other insomniacs who suffer or suffered tachychardia (rapid or pounding heartbeat) as a primary withdrawal symptom. This happens almost as soon as I go to bed if I don't take the Z. Sleep is NOT possible with this symptom.

 

Thank you.

 

PS What are the alternatives for using a long-acting substitute in a taper, the way someone doing a benzo taper can use diazepam? Has anyone used diazepam in this way to get off a z-drug? (I kind of assume it wouldn't work.) Since eszopiclone has a longer half-life, do people use that for a substitution taper?

It sounds like you may have replaced one benzo with another and so you were not really on Z for only a month in a way.  I have not heard of replacing one Z drug for another in order to taper.  I also didn't know that Lunesta had a longer half-life than, say, Ambien- I know some people switched over to Valium as per Ashton manual.  I went really slowly (need to correct me sig) using a jeweler's scale.  Don't talk yourself into not being able to sleep.  It's amazing what symptoms abate if you taper slowly enough.  And, once you know it is w/d, you might find ways to dismiss the discomfort enough to sleep.  WBB

[[GA...]]

Hello. I would love to hear from people who have taken z-drugs solely or primarily for insomnia.

 

After getting off of benzos, my sleep deteriorated to such a degree that I could barely function (I'm a teacher), so I tried zopiclone thinking that at least there might be less withdrawal when I stopped. Silly me. Zopiclone, as everyone here probably already knows, is super evil. For me, stopping the benzo I was on was a snap, with almost no withdrawal. Why in heck am I so affected by the z-drug, after only a month of use?

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear from other insomniacs who suffer or suffered tachychardia (rapid or pounding heartbeat) as a primary withdrawal symptom. This happens almost as soon as I go to bed if I don't take the Z. Sleep is NOT possible with this symptom.

 

Thank you.

 

PS What are the alternatives for using a long-acting substitute in a taper, the way someone doing a benzo taper can use diazepam? Has anyone used diazepam in this way to get off a z-drug? (I kind of assume it wouldn't work.) Since eszopiclone has a longer half-life, do people use that for a substitution taper?

It sounds like you may have replaced one benzo with another and so you were not really on Z for only a month in a way.  I have not heard of replacing one Z drug for another in order to taper.  I also didn't know that Lunesta had a longer half-life than, say, Ambien- I know some people switched over to Valium as per Ashton manual.  I went really slowly (need to correct me sig) using a jeweler's scale.  Don't talk yourself into not being able to sleep.  It's amazing what symptoms abate if you taper slowly enough.  And, once you know it is w/d, you might find ways to dismiss the discomfort enough to sleep.  WBB

 

eszopilcone has a longer half-life than ambien? It couldn't be too much longer becausethey both have short half-lifes so you can wake up in the morning. There can't be much difference in them?

 

I used Ativan to get me off the Ambien. In fact I updosed the Ativan for the six week rapid taper off Ambien and had no trouble at all. I quit the Ambien over 6 months ago and am now slowly tapering the Ativan.

 

But if a person is not already taking Ativan would I recommend he start in order to help him off the Ambien? That is a judgement call among judgement calls. The longer acting Ativan will work in the background to prevent interdose wds from the Z-drug and it will help you sleep. But then you will have the additional task of withdrawing from the Ativan later.

 

If you already using Valium, Xanax, Ativan, etc. then it's a no-brainer. Use those loger lasting drugs to get off the Z-drug. And that might not take as long as you think.

[[...]]

My week taper was a failure

 

Been awake 42hrs solid now.

 

Could barely walk into the doctors.

 

Left with my full dose and 42 pills, tried to reduce my dose but psychologically I kept myself awake

 

9am in the morning and I was still awake!

 

Now it's 7pm

 

Laying in bed, got my pills, can't wait to get dosed up and go to sleep!

[[Lo...]]

Dear Zuko, I thought your plan was rather optimistic! I am so sorry to hear that it did not work out but am not surprised. We need to take tiny steps to get off these dreadful drugs.

I suggest that you get yourself a scale that measures small amounts. There are some recommended on another thread.

 

It is advised that we do not taper by more than 1% per day and that is of the current dose. The amounts that we cut get smaller and smaller as we go lower.

 

I found a spreadsheet on the internet that told how much to cut. This link should work.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7601-excel-spreadsheet-to-calculate-dose-weights-using-a-scale/

 

Of course it is only a guideline. There will be times when perhaps you can cut slightly more and other times when you need to hold because of circumstances or just how your body is feeling.

 

You can do this - slow and steady wins the game.  Good luck!

[[...]]

Thank you for your support, the doctors have gave me free rain to come off these at my own discretion rather than a fixed schedule

 

So I'll do a gradual really slow taper, after 8 years I think I need to go slow seeing as I was taking 15mg+ for the past few years

 

I actually never wanted to come off lol - The quality of my life is better with zopiclone + sleep than with no sleep

 

I literally fall to pieces, yesterday I was sitting in the corner of the doctors on the floor telling myself I'm going to live and not die

 

Everyone thought I was crazy, I do have GAD, ADD, Internal thoughts and other mental health issues so the insomnia really ramps those up

 

My psychologist says I'm more "stable" with zopiclone and I have to agree with her

[[...]]

I would like to apologise publicly for my rant and targeting at certain people in this group whilst I was "jumping" from 15mg to 7.5mg I targeting Ahola and a few others.

 

My comments were aimed at the group in general that the symptoms were mostly psychological and they "couldn't" be in withdrawal 5 years on.

 

Truth is, who am I to say!? If you're feeling something, you're feeling it!

 

After going through what I would call withdrawal (btw my doctor told me it was nonsense and I couldn't be in withdraw because I "topped up" my dose during the night) I now understand where you are coming from, for 8 years I never really had an physical issues, even when I skipped a dose, but recently I've started to get some

 

So I would like to apologise to those members, you know who you are... If you are one of them, please accept my apology in the comments below.

 

Z

[[al...]]

Zuko,

Apology totally accepted. I'm sorry if I said anything that made your situation worse. I am really hoping that you are able to kick your z-drug and get to find some peace.

[[...]]

Zuko,

Apology totally accepted. I'm sorry if I said anything that made your situation worse. I am really hoping that you are able to kick your z-drug and get to find some peace.

 

No problem my friend! Me too! It's horrible

[[Li...]]

Little update; I am using some zopiclone again. One day ago a half tablet and last night a quarter. I was waking up at 6 O'clock a couple of times and could not sleep after. I am planning to quit it, after several good nights. I am not worried, it is as it is.

[[...]]

Little update; I am using some zopiclone again. One day ago a half tablet and last night a quarter. I was waking up at 6 O'clock a couple of times and could not sleep after. I am planning to quit it, after several good nights. I am not worried, it is as it is.

 

At those amounts I don't think you're going to have an issue, if you were taking 7.5mg+ for days in a row then yes but a 1/4 a tablet as needed don't be ashamed or feel like you've let yourself down or feel like you've screwed up...

 

Everyone needs help some times, even after we completely WD a lot of people go back to dose occasionally!