Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Li...]]

Ha Zzers, an update from me... it is almost time for me to slowly go to a next step. It must be do-able because I had a long break/hold. Once in a while I am on Jamules, the jam app. And sometimes I join with one of my saxes. Spring has started here too, which is very nice. Huggs Jerry 

[[La...]]

Welcome Seektoheal. As Deanna stated your issues are definitely withdrawal from sleep drugs. Just like Deanna all of my symptoms were physical too when I was on Ambien. And today I'm 10 months off. My symptoms are still physical ones. I had the same issues while taking the Ambien that I also didn't connect it to it. I apparently was in tolerance and interdose withdrawal for awhile. Strange things going on in my body with all tests showing normal results. After not being on any other medications or any injuries my doctor and I knew it HAD to be the Ambien. Sadly, it was! So began my taper off. Some of my symptoms immediately left. Some new ones popped up as I tapered down to a crumb then jumped. As symptoms left, new ones showed up. This is the phase I'm at now. This past few days I have a new neck tightness/pain/ stiffness thing going on. All the symptoms we experience although unpleasant must cycle in and out to heal. Just know that in the end our bodies will thank us for not poisoning it anymore. Hang in there!

Deanna I'm giving you an early congrats on your 9th month. Our cases are so similar. Amazingly! I've been debating on getting the vaccine myself. I'm hesitant because even before this recovery ordeal I've always reacted to new medications. Right now I'm in a shift of symptoms and don't know if it's a good idea to get vaccinated. I'm so glad you're getting it. I'll be waiting for your report about how well you do with it. Thanks for letting us know.

Kachina I'm sorry you're having trouble sleeping. I also had a trouble spell while tapering at the lower doses. This is normal and will pass. Sounds like you did the right thing by not fighting it. You got up and accepted it. That's awesome! If you stress out, it makes it worse. Hopefully tonight you'll be snoring good!  keep going on your reduction and stay positive sweetie. You got this!

Jerry good luck with your next step. I hope it's smooth. Keep jamming that sax. Yes spring is beautiful here too.

Twd I want you to be feeling better soon. I had those night time adrenal surges and bad night sweats with heart pounding. Wow it was tough to not panic. What helped me was slow deep breathing while rubbing the top of my hand in a circle. It gave me something to focus on until it passed. Also massaging your scalp may help. Any lady will tell you that at a salon when getting our hair shampooed the massaging is heavenly. I hope this improves for you soon.

Shay you're right about not dropping doses too fast. They WILL catch up to you and it's indescribable hell. I hope you're enjoying the Australian sunshine and beaches. Most of all I hope you're doing better. We missed you when you're not here.

Love and hugs to all

[[De...]]

Hey LadyD!  Yes I have really debated with myself very hard about getting the vaccine.  I too am seeing some new less bothersome symptoms that cycle in and out (headache, phantom smells, tinnitus) and had a window when I could actually go into a store and not get my jitters, so I really see some healing going on.  I hope I don't go backwards again after the shot.  I will take it very easy this week in advance of the shot, to give myself a good rested state to receive the vaccine.  I've come to realize like you that I am very sensitive to meds as well, but I really have always been able to get the flu shot with no problem.  And in 2019 I now realize I was in tolerance withdrawal and had no reaction to the flu shot that year.  I could wait to get it, but I'd never forgive myself if I got the virus and then who knows how bad that can get.  I'll be happy when this is over.  I laid awake last night (during my typical 2 hour wakefulness in the middle of the night) and went over it all again in my head.  I think I'm doing the right thing, but we won't know until it's over.  I hope at least my experience can help others.

 

[[Tw...]]

Shayna, you were correct with the warning of going too fast.

 

I was going to go another 1 mg lower, but the tinnitus is so loud.  I going to go steady a couple of more days.

I get so tempted to come off of the ambien quickly

[[Tw...]]

the saving grace of this board is that I at least I understand that I'm going through withdrawals and not going crazy like I did before.

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Shayna, you were correct with the warning of going too fast.

 

I was going to go another 1 mg lower, but the tinnitus is so loud.  I going to go steady a couple of more days.

I get so tempted to come off of the ambien quickly

 

Please don’t do that. It’s safer to go .5mg every 2 weeks. I’m sorry but u will crash if u do that. When I wd from zopiclone I did 1/4 of a tablet every 2 weeks. Once I got to 7.5mg I dropped 1/8 of a tablet every 2 weeks.

 

It’s ur call but a relapse will make the next wd even harder. X

[[Sh...]]

Hey team z. I miss u guys too but sometimes I can’t be here. I’m walking another path now. I don’t want anyone here to see my journey and think that will be theres. Plus to see more newbies here struggling is tough. It hurts my heart x love to u all x

[[se...]]

Welcome Seektoheal. As Deanna stated your issues are definitely withdrawal from sleep drugs. Just like Deanna all of my symptoms were physical too when I was on Ambien. And today I'm 10 months off. My symptoms are still physical ones. I had the same issues while taking the Ambien that I also didn't connect it to it. I apparently was in tolerance and interdose withdrawal for awhile. Strange things going on in my body with all tests showing normal results. After not being on any other medications or any injuries my doctor and I knew it HAD to be the Ambien. Sadly, it was! So began my taper off. Some of my symptoms immediately left. Some new ones popped up as I tapered down to a crumb then jumped. As symptoms left, new ones showed up. This is the phase I'm at now. This past few days I have a new neck tightness/pain/ stiffness thing going on. All the symptoms we experience although unpleasant must cycle in and out to heal. Just know that in the end our bodies will thank us for not poisoning it anymore. Hang in there!

Deanna I'm giving you an early congrats on your 9th month. Our cases are so similar. Amazingly! I've been debating on getting the vaccine myself. I'm hesitant because even before this recovery ordeal I've always reacted to new medications. Right now I'm in a shift of symptoms and don't know if it's a good idea to get vaccinated. I'm so glad you're getting it. I'll be waiting for your report about how well you do with it. Thanks for letting us know.

Kachina I'm sorry you're having trouble sleeping. I also had a trouble spell while tapering at the lower doses. This is normal and will pass. Sounds like you did the right thing by not fighting it. You got up and accepted it. That's awesome! If you stress out, it makes it worse. Hopefully tonight you'll be snoring good!  keep going on your reduction and stay positive sweetie. You got this!

Jerry good luck with your next step. I hope it's smooth. Keep jamming that sax. Yes spring is beautiful here too.

Twd I want you to be feeling better soon. I had those night time adrenal surges and bad night sweats with heart pounding. Wow it was tough to not panic. What helped me was slow deep breathing while rubbing the top of my hand in a circle. It gave me something to focus on until it passed. Also massaging your scalp may help. Any lady will tell you that at a salon when getting our hair shampooed the massaging is heavenly. I hope this improves for you soon.

Shay you're right about not dropping doses too fast. They WILL catch up to you and it's indescribable hell. I hope you're enjoying the Australian sunshine and beaches. Most of all I hope you're doing better. We missed you when you're not here.

Love and hugs to all

 

Thanks LadyDen. Sometimes its hard to know when polydrugging.  I was taking ambien to for awhile but tapered a few months back. Taking the Lunesta for sleep and adding Klonopin for anxiety/sleep and melatonin I have quite a combination hole to dig out out. I was tapering klonopin but paused to get of Lunesta. I did a 25% week taper down from 3 mg Lunesta and just took my last 25% yesterday. So one drug of my list. Think I will hold a week and see how my symptoms go and then restart Klonopin taper. I also need to widdle down my melatonin as I take 20 mg fast dissolve to sleep and also 20 mg time release as well.

 

thx

seekingtoheal

[[La...]]

You're very welcome Seek.  Slow and steady wins the race.

Deanna I feel you'll do well with the vaccine. I haven't had a problem with any flu shot either. So hopefully this means the covid vaccine will be the same. 

Shay we understand how you feel sometimes. My heart goes out to you while you battle the waves. I'm proud of your good attitude about it. I hope you feel better soon because I miss your sense of humor. Yes the newbies break my heart too. Unfortunately there will be more and more after we are healed because many people are on these poisons. Only a matter of time before each person realize why they're so sick....the pills. 

Kachina you're very welcome. Hope you're feeling better today and enjoying the sunshine.

To everyone else hugs to you and show these pills whose boss! Happy tapering or happy recovering.

[[De...]]

Welcome Seektoheal. As Deanna stated your issues are definitely withdrawal from sleep drugs. Just like Deanna all of my symptoms were physical too when I was on Ambien. And today I'm 10 months off. My symptoms are still physical ones. I had the same issues while taking the Ambien that I also didn't connect it to it. I apparently was in tolerance and interdose withdrawal for awhile. Strange things going on in my body with all tests showing normal results. After not being on any other medications or any injuries my doctor and I knew it HAD to be the Ambien. Sadly, it was! So began my taper off. Some of my symptoms immediately left. Some new ones popped up as I tapered down to a crumb then jumped. As symptoms left, new ones showed up. This is the phase I'm at now. This past few days I have a new neck tightness/pain/ stiffness thing going on. All the symptoms we experience although unpleasant must cycle in and out to heal. Just know that in the end our bodies will thank us for not poisoning it anymore. Hang in there!

Deanna I'm giving you an early congrats on your 9th month. Our cases are so similar. Amazingly! I've been debating on getting the vaccine myself. I'm hesitant because even before this recovery ordeal I've always reacted to new medications. Right now I'm in a shift of symptoms and don't know if it's a good idea to get vaccinated. I'm so glad you're getting it. I'll be waiting for your report about how well you do with it. Thanks for letting us know.

Kachina I'm sorry you're having trouble sleeping. I also had a trouble spell while tapering at the lower doses. This is normal and will pass. Sounds like you did the right thing by not fighting it. You got up and accepted it. That's awesome! If you stress out, it makes it worse. Hopefully tonight you'll be snoring good!  keep going on your reduction and stay positive sweetie. You got this!

Jerry good luck with your next step. I hope it's smooth. Keep jamming that sax. Yes spring is beautiful here too.

Twd I want you to be feeling better soon. I had those night time adrenal surges and bad night sweats with heart pounding. Wow it was tough to not panic. What helped me was slow deep breathing while rubbing the top of my hand in a circle. It gave me something to focus on until it passed. Also massaging your scalp may help. Any lady will tell you that at a salon when getting our hair shampooed the massaging is heavenly. I hope this improves for you soon.

Shay you're right about not dropping doses too fast. They WILL catch up to you and it's indescribable hell. I hope you're enjoying the Australian sunshine and beaches. Most of all I hope you're doing better. We missed you when you're not here.

Love and hugs to all

 

Thanks LadyDen. Sometimes its hard to know when polydrugging.  I was taking ambien to for awhile but tapered a few months back. Taking the Lunesta for sleep and adding Klonopin for anxiety/sleep and melatonin I have quite a combination hole to dig out out. I was tapering klonopin but paused to get of Lunesta. I did a 25% week taper down from 3 mg Lunesta and just took my last 25% yesterday. So one drug of my list. Think I will hold a week and see how my symptoms go and then restart Klonopin taper. I also need to widdle down my melatonin as I take 20 mg fast dissolve to sleep and also 20 mg time release as well.

 

thx

seekingtoheal

 

Hello Seeking - I wanted to chime in on the melatonin part of your cocktail.  I too was polydrugging taking 10-15 mg of ambien in divided doses during the night (what was I thinking?) AND 25-50 mg benadryl AND 5mg fast dissolving melatonin.  I finally figured that all that crap can't be good so before I even knew the ambien was the real problem I widdled my way off of the benadryl.  That went well enough, and then I learned that the normal body need for melatonin is something like .3mg, so the OTC dosages are so over the top.  I noticed that I was very depressed during this time and I felt better in that regard when I ditched the melatonin.  Then I was just left with the ambien to deal with.  I think everyone is different but just wanted to let you know that for me it helped getting off the ambien last.  Good Luck!!

[[se...]]

Thanks Deanna2020, appreciated. Agree none of this is good. Before my tinnitus issue I was taking only a small amount of melatonin then built out my cocktail to sleep with tinnitus. Got off the Ambien, just finished Lunesta, and now down to the klonopin and melatonin. Way more melatonin than want to be on. Once I restart my klonopin in a week I may try to widdle down the melatonin too at that time...just have to see how it goes. Had setback with Klonopin but headed in right direction. Thanks for the feedback. Will have to relearn non-drug sleep.

 

seekingtoheal

[Guest [An...]]

Effin' doctors, so stupid to be polydrugging people with a Benzo, AND a Z-Drug.

[[La...]]

Andros, don't forget AND an antidepressant in half the cases. ( not mine but many others). I'm sorry but I'm hard to convince that they don't know what these drugs are doing to people. Not all of them know but most of them do! How can they not know when patient after patient is in bad withdrawal for an extended time? Sadly, they're in the get rich with quick fix

[[Ka...]]

2. If still having problems, next step is to get an Ebb CoolDrift machine, and use it. I wish I had tried this originally.

Andros: I looked this expensive item up. I am curious. Have you used it, do you own one? Please do tell! What about a cool washcloth on the forehead?

 

Akkut, how are you doing?

 

Team:  Hello!

 

Deanna, good luck with your jab tomorrow!

 

Twbd, glad you slowed down sorry to hear about your tinninitis.

 

Shayna, thanks for checking in. Sorry it's rough, sending strength.

 

Lady, sending love your way.

 

Jerry good to hear a hello from you.

 

I'm not sure what I'm doing, but I am not going up and time to turn inward to quiet myself down for the sleep cycle headin my way! Nite all. 

[Guest [An...]]

Andros, don't forget AND an antidepressant in half the cases. ( not mine but many others). I'm sorry but I'm hard to convince that they don't know what these drugs are doing to people. Not all of them know but most of them do! How can they not know when patient after patient is in bad withdrawal for an extended time? Sadly, they're in the get rich with quick fix

 

The docs I've talked to are all well meaning, but completely brainwashed by their indoctrination, and unable to see outside their small bubble universe. I was able to realize that I was sick because of the Z-drug, within ONE week! Yet I had to fight every single medical practitioner that wanted to say it was sleep apnea. Everything is sleep apnea to these clowns.

 

With that said, my GP is a very nice lady. Dumb as rocks, but she means well and has a good heart.

[Guest [An...]]

Andros: I looked this expensive item up. I am curious. Have you used it, do you own one? Please do tell! What about a cool washcloth on the forehead?

 

I almost missed your post.

 

Yes I have one. It's an interesting device. It's the same idea as the washcloth, but with 2 notable differences:

 

1. You can control how cold you want it (go as cold as you can tolerate).

 

2. The cool sensation works all night long, instead of just 20min while the washcloth loses it's coolness.

 

 

 

I use it every night now. This is what I have found:

 

 

1. For normal people this would be a nice boost to sleep, kinda like a melatonin, but drug free.

2. For us, it's only useful when using it with something else.

 

 

In my case, I've tried the machine on its own with no drugs, and sometimes it *almost* puts me to sleep, it is so close sometimes, but sadly I haven't actually been able to cross that threshold.

 

BUT if I use it while taking something else (like Mirtazapine, or Cannabis), it cuts my sleep onset in half. So for example, if I take some Mirt, usually it will take 1 to 1.5hr to take effect. But if I strap on the machine, I fall asleep in 45min. Same with the Cannabis.

 

So it has its use. I wish I would have been able to try this thing prior to the Z-drug, and give it a normal assessment.

[[De...]]

Sleep apnea is BIG business.  So are orthopedic insoles, having wisdom teeth removed, and a host of other man-made-up medical conditions.  (I laugh at those Peyrone Disease commercials  )  I'm not saying that if you truly have sleep apnea that it isn't bad for your health and shouldn't be treated.  It should.  But every sleep problem looks like sleep apnea because of the revenue stream. 

 

Western medicine is SO broken.

 

 

[[se...]]

Hey buddies. Wanted to update this thread on my progress as you have been supportive.

 

This past Sunday was my last day of Lunesta. Still taking 0.41 mg of klonopin and my melatonin cocktail at night. Sleep past couple of days has been decent, around 6 hours or so...somewhat fair according to my fitbit.

 

Have read different accounts on Lunesta withdrawal timeline from days to weeks and on. (been on it for about a year). See how it goes. So far I still have the amped up feeling of a bit of shakiness, tingling burning hands and feet and a little rapid heartbeat. Tinnitus seems more louder and just a feeling of tightness/tension in body.

 

I am hoping I am up to it symptom wise to re-start my klonopin taper on Monday. Have to see. Even though I had a klonopin taper relapse, as of right now I got rid of Ambien and Lunesta, so trying to spin the positive and keep moving forward.

 

thx seekingtoheal

[Guest [An...]]

Sleep apnea is BIG business.  So are orthopedic insoles, having wisdom teeth removed, and a host of other man-made-up medical conditions.  (I laugh at those Peyrone Disease commercials  )  I'm not saying that if you truly have sleep apnea that it isn't bad for your health and shouldn't be treated.  It should.  But every sleep problem looks like sleep apnea because of the revenue stream. 

 

Western medicine is SO broken.

 

Wondering what the heck peyronie's disease is, I googled it (I use www.startpage.com as my search engine), and I get smacked by a big dick. Ok, thank you for that. LOL. So this has something to do with a curved penis? I'm male, so I have no idea if this is a legitimate issue for women. I can't see a dude caring about it unless he's worried the chicks will think he's deformed.

 

I have flat feet. Man, I have had like 100 pairs of orthopedic insoles, and they literally do jack shit for me. Then I learn in my adult life that flat feet are not a huge issue, unless you have a lot of foot pain, which I don't.

 

I think everyone that snores probably has mild apnea. It's a problem when you're not getting enough rest. I explained to several doctors "How could it be sleep apnea when I don't even REACH the point of sleep? I just stare at the clock wide awake? How is that sleep apnea?". Answer: "Your apnea could be preventing you from falling asleep".  AHHHRRG!! retards!!! I had a doctor in ER tell me that, and then "have you tried melatonin?". Goddamn I had to bite my tongue "yes asshole, I've tried melatonin, it's the first thing everyone uses to try to sleep, thank you for that 8 years of medical experience in your noggin!"

 

I am lucky to have a great job in IT making some decent coin, but I wonder sometimes if I should have gotten into the medical field.

[[De...]]

Glad I made your day 

[[Be...]]

I don't agree at all that western medicine is broken.  Docs are the some of the greatest beings on this planet, IMO.  I have a degree in the medical field and also worked in the medical field and I have nothing but great respect for docs.  I think they are fantastic and the overwhelming majority of them truly want to help people.  I wanted to be a doc myself when I was younger.  Getting wisdom teeth out is important and is not a man-made up medical condition.  If you don't get them removed then when they come in they may crowd the other teeth and make them crooked and then you could have chewing issues and other serious dental problems.  Also orthopedic insoles have helped millions of people not have foot and leg pain.  It's important to have good alignment in your spine and body.  I know a few people who have sleep apnea and will die without their CPAP machines. 

[Guest [An...]]

I don't agree at all that western medicine is broken.  Docs are the some of the greatest beings on this planet, IMO.  I have a degree in the medical field and also worked in the medical field and I have nothing but great respect for docs.  I think they are fantastic and the overwhelming majority of them truly want to help people.  I wanted to be a doc myself when I was younger.  Getting wisdom teeth out is important and is not a man-made up medical condition.  If you don't get them removed then when they come in they may crowd the other teeth and make them crooked and then you could have chewing issues and other serious dental problems.  Also orthopedic insoles have helped millions of people not have foot and leg pain.  It's important to have good alignment in your spine and body.  I know a few people who have sleep apnea and will die without their CPAP machines.

 

Yes, there are legit cases of each one of those ailments. I would like to see how many actually needed them to begin with though. Apnea for example. How many people are hooked on a CPAP machine and never needed it? I would be bold enough to say 70% at least. If all you have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail. Sleep centers SPECIFICALLY look for apnea. How many on this very board have gone because they can't sleep, only to be told "yeah you don't have apnea, good luck".

 

And then there's the lucrative side. Work insurance pays for most apnea machines, which in reality mean YOU pay for it, but with money that was yours, but never made it to your hands because it was as part of an "Insurance package". What an awesome racket. They make you pay with your own money for a machine you never needed, and they make you feel special because you didn't have to use your "net" left over cash to do it.

 

With that said, there are some phenomenal doctors. The orthopedic surgeon that operated my elbow 15 years ago was phenomenal. The sports therapist I was seeing for years afterward was great as well.

 

The GP's seem to be far behind. They are people who finished their studies about 30 years ago, and are still stuck doing things the way they were done 30 years ago.

If I were a GP, I'd be keeping my knowledge fresh with the latest information. I would not be wary of suggesting natural remedies/strategies to deal with many ailments. And I would leave drugs as a last resort. When I went to the doc, why couldn't the doc say "have you tried Valerian, or Passionflower to sleep?". I'd probably think "no, I haven't tried those things, it didn't occur to me at the moment". I'd probably have gotten by my transient insomnia for a couple of weeks, and would have been back to normal, instead of here.

 

That is what burns me. These guys would not survive IT. We have to keep on top of the latest technology trends, because practically everything that was used 10 years ago is now obsolete, and that's a common trend. In 10 years, what's hot in tech now will be obsolete then. And I'm just dealing with machines. These guys are dealing with human beings that suffer if they make a mistake. Again, that's why we are all here.

[[se...]]

I am now on day 4 since stopping my stopping my 3 mg Lunesta via 25% a week reductions and am really feeling it. I honestly did not think I would feel it this bad since I am taking klonopin (0.41 mg) as well, but was way wrong.

 

If the equivalency charts for Ashton are even close then in 4 weeks I have went down a decent equivalent to klonopin. Main symptoms are louder tinnitus, burning and tingling hands/feet, some rapid heartbeat and shaking. Have to ride it out.

 

3 mg Lunesta equates 10 mg of valium, (ashton equiv chart) which as I understand is equates to about 0.5 mg of Klonopin

[[Tw...]]

Hang in there seekingtoheal; you have had the strength to make it this far;

 

The positive results come after the pain sometime.

[[De...]]

I don't agree at all that western medicine is broken.  Docs are the some of the greatest beings on this planet, IMO.  I have a degree in the medical field and also worked in the medical field and I have nothing but great respect for docs.  I think they are fantastic and the overwhelming majority of them truly want to help people.  I wanted to be a doc myself when I was younger.  Getting wisdom teeth out is important and is not a man-made up medical condition.  If you don't get them removed then when they come in they may crowd the other teeth and make them crooked and then you could have chewing issues and other serious dental problems.  Also orthopedic insoles have helped millions of people not have foot and leg pain.  It's important to have good alignment in your spine and body.  I know a few people who have sleep apnea and will die without their CPAP machines.

 

I specifically asked my GP years ago about supplements to help during menopause and she said outright that they aren't trained in the risks and benefits of supplements which aren't approved by FDA.  My gynecologist was much more open to these things and she had reference articles in her waiting room.  I guess supplements are the domain of the naturopaths...

 

Yes, there are legit cases of each one of those ailments. I would like to see how many actually needed them to begin with though. Apnea for example. How many people are hooked on a CPAP machine and never needed it? I would be bold enough to say 70% at least. If all you have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail. Sleep centers SPECIFICALLY look for apnea. How many on this very board have gone because they can't sleep, only to be told "yeah you don't have apnea, good luck".

 

And then there's the lucrative side. Work insurance pays for most apnea machines, which in reality mean YOU pay for it, but with money that was yours, but never made it to your hands because it was as part of an "Insurance package". What an awesome racket. They make you pay with your own money for a machine you never needed, and they make you feel special because you didn't have to use your "net" left over cash to do it.

 

With that said, there are some phenomenal doctors. The orthopedic surgeon that operated my elbow 15 years ago was phenomenal. The sports therapist I was seeing for years afterward was great as well.

 

The GP's seem to be far behind. They are people who finished their studies about 30 years ago, and are still stuck doing things the way they were done 30 years ago.

If I were a GP, I'd be keeping my knowledge fresh with the latest information. I would not be wary of suggesting natural remedies/strategies to deal with many ailments. And I would leave drugs as a last resort. When I went to the doc, why couldn't the doc say "have you tried Valerian, or Passionflower to sleep?". I'd probably think "no, I haven't tried those things, it didn't occur to me at the moment". I'd probably have gotten by my transient insomnia for a couple of weeks, and would have been back to normal, instead of here.

 

That is what burns me. These guys would not survive IT. We have to keep on top of the latest technology trends, because practically everything that was used 10 years ago is now obsolete, and that's a common trend. In 10 years, what's hot in tech now will be obsolete then. And I'm just dealing with machines. These guys are dealing with human beings that suffer if they make a mistake. Again, that's why we are all here.