Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[...]]

Monkey,

 

For me, the choice in going from 3 to 2 doses would depend on my sickness.

 

My main problem was insomnia.  I felt if I could get  a good night sleep, I could handle any daytime issues.

 

So I saved all my benzos to take at bed or when I woke up at night.

 

For others, perhaps they sleep well but have panic issues.  Then, save the benzo doses for daytime.

 

[[Be...]]

I want to say this as gently as possible. It sounds like you are really worrying yourself sick over the Valium, but unnecessarily so. I understand, I do, how our brains go into overdrive and we start imagining the worst possible scenarios.

 

Ok, I will chill on this. I know that i make myself anxious worrying over what 'may' happen and that does a number on my CNS.

 

 

I just want to say that I agree with Bob7 that you might want to seriously consider a second opinion. You’re on 4 medications and 2 of them are for sleep as well? So why are you thinking about replacing trazadone with gabapentin? I’m not sure if you are aware that gabapentin/neurontin can be highly addictive and has to be tapered also? A good friend of mine went through a lot from gabapentin and struggled very horribly. I know Ambien has to be tapered as well and I think Bob7 gave you some sound advice and I really don’t know much about Ambien. Some people do taper multiple medications at once but it’s generally the exception and it will make for a harder benzo taper, and I highly doubt it would have been any easier to taper Ambien if you were still on Valium vs Ativan. I hope that you are able to get this figured out. You have received some very good advice here, and I hope it helps you, but ultimately it’s your decision and you will always be supported in whatever you choose.

 

 

I totally get what you are saying. Unfortunately as soon as i started to take Ativan the Ambien completely stopped working. I had taken the Traz as a way to sleep (Ativan doesnt help me sleep at all and i wasn't given it for sleep). I was using it to try to taper off of Ambien and it's actually worked and i've taken less. If I don't sleep I cannot function. But i hear you on the Neurontin. I was only going to try 100mg and never take more than 300mg and not take the traz. While my current psych didnt prescribe me the other meds he did suggest Neurontin for the reasons mentioned and also to help with anxiety since that has been getting worse. If something can help me sleep and get me off Ambien and i can stay on a low dose of it then I thought it would be OK, but I will rethink that. I'm on too much stuff and mostly worried about the Ativan/Valium situation and i know THAT is just the tip of the iceberg. I think it's because before the Ativan I was doing ok in terms of not feeling 'addicted' to anything. Of course I was totally dependent on Ambien but I never felt this kind of crazy dependence i now feel. Having said that, I need to get the Ambien down but am just not sure how to do that and sleep. I have to sleep. Thank you for the support and tough love. I need it.

 

Is the trazadone working for you for sleep? Trazadone has discontinuation syndrome, all anti-depressants do, so you would have to wean off that. You can't just stop it and switch to gabapentin. While I think ThroughAGlassDarkly is urging caution in regards to gabapentin, not everybody has difficulty getting off gabapentinoids. A lot depends on dose and length of use. I was on 25 mg Lyrica for 28 days following two back to back radio frequency nerve ablations. My physiatrist told me I could simply stop. I did and had no issues. I was on 300 mg gabapentin for 2 weeks and stopped. I am using 300 mg for sleep, I exchanged posts with several Buddies who used 300 to 400 mg for sleep. Once I got down to 10 mg Valium, my sleep began suffering. The Buddies who used it stayed on it until the Valium cleared their systems, and they then reduced their doses by 100 mg a month. All told me that withdrawal effects were very mild and short-lived, unlike the benzo they finished tapering. One person said they got the tablet form of 100 mg, and cut them in half, so as to take 50 mg at the end. They were on 400 mg for a few years, but were previously on 1200 mg at one point. I know someone personally who stopped after a few months of 100 mg. Her doctor quickly reduced her regular dose, while increasing a different med she was switching to. Once she was stable on the new med, he had her simply stop the 100 mg. She never had withdrawal.

 

1. You are going to have to wean off the trazadone. 2. 100 mg of gabapentin is unlikely to aid sleep. I personally wouldn't switch one for the other without weaning of the trazadone. 3. Gabapentin will give you sleep, but it will be very broken sleep. It's tempting to take more, but the higher your dose, the more difficult it will be to discontinue. If the trazadone actually works for you, and you aren't dealing with much of the anticholinergic side effects of it, you might be better off staying on it. 4. Bob7 is right about you being polydrugged, and all are sedating. 25 mg is a lot of Ambien. I was knocked out by just 5 mg. I'm guessing you are in the mess you are in now because of insomnia, and you do seem concerned about not being able to sleep.

 

Gabapentin initially worked fairly well for sleep, until I reached 6 mg Valium. My sleep became more and more broken. I and my Psych NP agreed increasing the gabapentin wasn't an option. I tried but I couldn't tolerate it. My constant shifting during the night resulted in open sores near my tailbone, which greatly concerned my NP. We added on Belsomra, 20 mg was the most effective. My sleep became less broken, and when I did wake up, I usually fell back to sleep sooner than I did on gabapentin alone. Twice a week, I take 50 mg Vistaril, and get my best nights of sleep. This is what works for me, others try different things. However, Belsomra and any other Orexin-blocking sleep aids are off the table for anybody using a Z-drug like Ambien. Some people have had sleep paralysis and/or hypnagogic hallucinations using these. I've never had either, sometimes I wake up from a vivid dream. Orexin-blockers can be simply stopped, they don't alter anything in the brain. I can't handle any anti-cholinergic, including trazadone. Vistaril is the exception because its activity is very selective, so it's not hitting a bunch of choline receptors.

 

Those suggesting you taper off the Ambien first are giving you sound advice. And if insomnia was why you were prescribed it, Bob7 is right about taking the Ativan at night then. Ativan and Ambien both have similar half-lives. Did you have interdose withdrawals with Ambien? After I crossed to Valium, I rapidly reduced the 5 mg Ambien I took, and had zero issues after stopping it, because the Valium was covering for it. You say the Ambien is no longer working anyway, so why not work to eliminate it? If you are hoping to have blissful, uninterrupted, sleep during the taper process - that's not likely going to happen. Realistically, this is not going to be an easy process. I am also taking all of my 3.5 mg of Valium at bedtime. That and the gabapentin quiet down that glutamate excitotoxicity, and the Belsomra lulls me back to sleep when I awaken by blocking the activity of Orexin that promotes wakefulness. A lot of people go through trial and error before finding things that work. Some use anti-psychotics, but they can be challenging to discontinue too.

 

Some people mention waking up in the early am with cortisol or adrenaline surges. I had the adrenaline ones. A former Buddie suggested GTF Chromium 200 mg once in the early evening, another at bedtime. Stopped the adrenaline surges. Others tried it but it didn't work for them. What works for me may not work for another Buddie. A lot is trial and error. If you haven't already, you might want to visit the forum for Z-drug use and the insomnia one. Though I think you have gotten lots of wise advice here. 

[[Be...]]

Advice:

 

I am down to 3.6mg val/day 1.2mg 3x day and the interdose w/d is horrible. Also I feel so much better before i take my morning dose, and also feel little to no symptoms whenever I lie down. Idk what my body is trying to tel me but i know it no longer likes this val. I want to speed up as i'm doing .03mg drop every 3 days currently and feel like this is dragging it out and only adding more med to my system for it to flush out. Am i crazy for thinking every dose i take only makes this worse? Im starting to think my body is either saying speed up or quit idk....

 

I'm at 3.5 mg, taken all at bedtime. V has an extremely long half-life, so interdose w/d is unheard of. That said, there are a few on here that are fast metabolizers. Even with V, they have to dose at least twice, if not 3x's a day.

 

I do find my w/d symptoms ramping up by late morning, and late afternoon. Lying down does calm things down. Afternoon rest is my meditation time. A lot of Buddies find meditation helpful. Some people find lying down during the day helpful, others are mostly bed-bound.

 

No, you are not crazy. Others have had your experience, mostly because they developed a paradoxical reaction to the benzo they are tapering. Unfortunately, if that is the case with you, the only solution is to rapidly taper off. You're low enough that you don't need to be concerned about seizures. Do you feel you can handle it? If you go this route, know that other buddies who rapid or cold-tapered are here to support you through the worst.

 

Finally, V has a way of sneaking up on you after you have been tapering for a while. I sometimes take a break to let my body to stabilize more as my reductions catch up with my current dose. I'm currently doing that now. If holding a bit isn't working for you, it's possible you simply can't tolerate V anymore. Then you need to decide of you want to c/t or rapid taper off the rest, and let the dice fall where they may. 

[[Be...]]

 

 

My question for the more knowledgeable folks on here is: what is the best way to go from three doses to two?

 

I am currently on 4mg in the morning, 3 at 5pm and then 4 around 11pm-midnight.

 

I thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide and wish everyone a peaceful Holiday season.

 

Cheers!

 

Monkeypig

 

Eliminate the 5 pm dose. Shift it to bedtime and take 7 instead of 4 at 11 pm-midnight. This will aid your sleep at night. When you are ready to taper, start reducing your morning dose down to zero. Eventually, you will be just dosing at night before bed. This is typically what most do, and Ashton's schedules recommend. This is what I did. Now I take my entire 3.5 mg prior to going to bed. Take it, brush teeth, change into nightshirt, do nighttime prayers, climb into bed and turn massage motors on. Lights out.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

My question for the more knowledgeable folks on here is: what is the best way to go from three doses to two?

 

I am currently on 4mg in the morning, 3 at 5pm and then 4 around 11pm-midnight.

 

I thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide and wish everyone a peaceful Holiday season.

 

Cheers!

 

Monkeypig

 

Eliminate the 5 pm dose. Shift it to bedtime and take 7 instead of 4 at 11 pm-midnight. This will aid your sleep at night. When you are ready to taper, start reducing your morning dose down to zero. Eventually, you will be just dosing at night before bed. This is typically what most do, and Ashton's schedules recommend. This is what I did. Now I take my entire 3.5 mg prior to going to bed. Take it, brush teeth, change into nightshirt, do nighttime prayers, climb into bed and turn massage motors on. Lights out.

 

Thanks for responding Dottie!

 

So you just say immediately transfer the 5pm dose to my 11pm one - i'm just concerned that such an abrupt switch will freak my system out and me in the process lol. 

[[Mo...]]

Thanks for responding Dottie!

 

So you just say immediately transfer the 5pm dose to my 11pm one - i'm just concerned that such an abrupt switch will freak my system out and me in the process lol. 

[[Be...]]

 

 

Thanks for responding Dottie!

 

So you just say immediately transfer the 5pm dose to my 11pm one - i'm just concerned that such an abrupt switch will freak my system out and me in the process lol. 

 

 

You said you're not ready to taper yet. How long have you been completely crossed over to Valium? You don't have to transfer the entire 5 pm dose to 11-12 night. Do it in steps. Maybe try moving 1 mg of the 5 pm dose to night. Remember, Valium is very long-acting. You can dose just once a day, which is what Ashton has you gradually do. Try moving a mg at a time, to bedtime, based on how you feel. Try every 7 or 10 days, until you eliminate your 5 pm dose. Valium's half-life makes it very forgiving, but if you don't feel ready to move the entire 5 pm dose to nighttime, a gradual transfer and elimination of the 5 pm dose can certainly be done. 

[[Mo...]]

Thanks again Dottie! 

 

I was under the impression that the goal is to have an even amount of the drug in your system as much as possible, am I wrong?  There won't be issues with me taking such a higher dosage in the evening as compared to having two equal doses am and pm?  I'm sorry if i'm sounding difficult but I really want to understand and I am VERY grateful for your input. 

 

I've been on Valium for over two years so i'm stable.  I am not ready to taper but i'm just eager to have a plan before i'm ready...it may be sooner than I think mind you lol

 

Again, I truly appreciate your take on this.

 

Cheers

 

Monkey

[[no...]]

Anyone doing or that did  a long hold get worse before got better? Now on 15 weeks (nearly 4 months) Of a long hold of my Diazepam  and feeling much worse, and a lot more disabled than I did in Month one or two, and can barely function or look after myself and I live alone with no help or support at all.

Mental state is also bad. Has anybody else experiences worse and gathered even more  symptoms during a long hold before improving?

 

Nova 

[[Be...]]

Thanks again Dottie! 

 

I was under the impression that the goal is to have an even amount of the drug in your system as much as possible, am I wrong?  There won't be issues with me taking such a higher dosage in the evening as compared to having two equal doses am and pm?  I'm sorry if i'm sounding difficult but I really want to understand and I am VERY grateful for your input. 

 

I've been on Valium for over two years so i'm stable.  I am not ready to taper but i'm just eager to have a plan before i'm ready...it may be sooner than I think mind you lol

 

Again, I truly appreciate your take on this.

 

Cheers

 

Monkey

 

 

If you go back to Bob7's reply, he asks about your sleep and any anxiety you are having. Are you sleeping okay with your nighttime dose? Are you more anxious in the am until you get in your am dose? You could split the 5pm dose and shift 1 mg to your morning dose, and 2 mg to your bedtime dose. Or do what Bob7 suggests and move your 5 pm dose entirely to your morning if anxiety is your biggest issue, or nighttime if insomnia is. Don't worry about having even levels; with Valium's extremely long half-life, it makes the perfect tapering med, as Heather Ashton herself realized, as your levels remain fairly steady. Which is why eventually as you taper, you'll be dosing only at bedtime. I dose once a day, at bedtime, as do many eventually do, and mostly do okay. I do notice by evening I have a slight uptick in symptoms, but once I get my bedtime dose in, and into bed, everything quiets down. There is a member on here that is a fast metabolizer, and she has to dose twice a day. Most of us are normal metabolizers, and it takes a few days for Valium's levels to drop significantly enough for you to really notice.

 

Again, you could do this gradually if you want to gauge how you feel. Move 1 mg to night, in 7 to 10 days move another 1 mg to the morning, after another 7 to 10 days move your remaining 1 mg 5 pm dose to night. There are lots of ways to do this. No one way is going to be correct. It's all based on your symptoms, and as Bob7 pointed out, what your main issue is; anxiety or insomnia. You'll need to decide how you want to go about this. Some just stayed at the 3x's a day dose, and began their taper with the daytime dose. So, you could start tapering the 5 pm dose. Though it seems you'd like to move to twice a day dosing, so it's a matter of shifting all or part of the 5 pm dose to either morning or bedtime. Ultimately, it's your choice.

[[Be...]]

Anyone doing or that did  a long hold get worse before got better? Now on 15 weeks (nearly 4 months) Of a long hold of my Diazepam  and feeling much worse, and a lot more disabled than I did in Month one or two, and can barely function or look after myself and I live alone with no help or support at all.

Mental state is also bad. Has anybody else experiences worse and gathered even more  symptoms during a long hold before improving?

 

Nova 

 

I did a long hold, but not more than two months for my longest (I have held for a month). I didn't feel better by the end of two months. I, too, live alone and have little help or support outside of a couple church people and state provided Peer and home care. The Peer helps me handle the withdrawal, navigate services, listens and advises. My Direct Care Worker does the housekeeping, takes out trash and recycling, and provides moral support and socialization. I get four 2 hour shifts 4 days a week from the state providers. Many US states provide similar services as part of overall mental health programs. Have you looked into seeing if such services are available to you? The church people assist with grocery shopping, medical appointments (most of mine are telehealth) and do other errands. If you are a member of a faith community, try there. Most are from my Catholic parish, but I have a few Methodists from a nearby church too. I met one through the NextDoor Neighborhood website. She and her husband have been helping ever since. My health insurance pays for the state providers. If you need help. insurance may cover it.

 

I never improved after holding for two months, and I recall posting back then about not really feeling any better, and often worse. Someone back then who had "gently walked off" Valium, responded to me. When she got like this, she had two choices' taper again or hold longer. She made a very small reduction in her dose, and actually felt better after. She encouraged me to try the same thing, and I did. And, yes, I did feel better. The one thing that hasn't been an issue for me much, is the mental issues. I was mistakenly prescribed benzos for what my Endocrinologist knew was a physical issue. I did have depression when I was first prescribed benzos, which made it worse, and I did at the higher doses of Valium, but once I got below 7 mg, it mostly went away. I never had an anxiety disorder, that I was wrongly diagnosed with.

 

I am having more of the physical symptoms; biggest are the stomach problems and paresthesia. I am temporarily holding until after the holidays. I'm hoping to resume tapering after, which will be about a month. I just find anything longer than a month doesn't work for me. Do you feel as though you struggle both physically and mentally? Are you feeling as though you aren't stable? The gist I am getting from your post is "yes" to both questions. I took a small reduction with a lot of trepidation, but in hindsight it was the correct thing to do. I actually stabilized well enough to resume tapering, and until this month, have continued. I did have to reduce the tapering amount in Spring, and that lower amount helped. I assume you posted the same question in the Long Hold forum. Hopefully you'll get responses. For some, holding long helps, for others, not so much. I think I'm among the latter. I can't say the same for you, but the advice I was given to try a small reduction, may work for you. Tough decision to make, and no easy answers.

 

I hope you can resolve your situation somehow, I wish I had a specific answer for you. I've now hit the  "benzo rage" stage. Heck, I'm so  that I'm pushing myself through this. I can manage a shower two days a week, take care of the cats (LitterRobot only needs emptying once a week!), put dishes in the dishwasher, run it through and empty it weekly. I get dressed and undressed, meals are simple, microwaving and poaching/simmering, All the bills for the house are on auto-pay, I get emails of due dates and emails when they are paid. I have things simplified as much as possible. As long as I can do the basics, despite the stomach burning/aching and up and down paresthesia (It's so bad at times, I feel like I'm plugged into an electric outlet  ). I'm stable enough to push on.

 

 

[[no...]]

Anyone doing or that did  a long hold get worse before got better? Now on 15 weeks (nearly 4 months) Of a long hold of my Diazepam  and feeling much worse, and a lot more disabled than I did in Month one or two, and can barely function or look after myself and I live alone with no help or support at all.

Mental state is also bad. Has anybody else experiences worse and gathered even more  symptoms during a long hold before improving?

 

Nova 

 

I did a long hold, but not more than two months for my longest (I have held for a month). I didn't feel better by the end of two months. I, too, live alone and have little help or support outside of a couple church people and state provided Peer and home care. The Peer helps me handle the withdrawal, navigate services, listens and advises. My Direct Care Worker does the housekeeping, takes out trash and recycling, and provides moral support and socialization. I get four 2 hour shifts 4 days a week from the state providers. Many US states provide similar services as part of overall mental health programs. Have you looked into seeing if such services are available to you? The church people assist with grocery shopping, medical appointments (most of mine are telehealth) and do other errands. If you are a member of a faith community, try there. Most are from my Catholic parish, but I have a few Methodists from a nearby church too. I met one through the NextDoor Neighborhood website. She and her husband have been helping ever since. My health insurance pays for the state providers. If you need help. insurance may cover it.

 

I never improved after holding for two months, and I recall posting back then about not really feeling any better, and often worse. Someone back then who had "gently walked off" Valium, responded to me. When she got like this, she had two choices' taper again or hold longer. She made a very small reduction in her dose, and actually felt better after. She encouraged me to try the same thing, and I did. And, yes, I did feel better. The one thing that hasn't been an issue for me much, is the mental issues. I was mistakenly prescribed benzos for what my Endocrinologist knew was a physical issue. I did have depression when I was first prescribed benzos, which made it worse, and I did at the higher doses of Valium, but once I got below 7 mg, it mostly went away. I never had an anxiety disorder, that I was wrongly diagnosed with.

 

I am having more of the physical symptoms; biggest are the stomach problems and paresthesia. I am temporarily holding until after the holidays. I'm hoping to resume tapering after, which will be about a month. I just find anything longer than a month doesn't work for me. Do you feel as though you struggle both physically and mentally? Are you feeling as though you aren't stable? The gist I am getting from your post is "yes" to both questions. I took a small reduction with a lot of trepidation, but in hindsight it was the correct thing to do. I actually stabilized well enough to resume tapering, and until this month, have continued. I did have to reduce the tapering amount in Spring, and that lower amount helped. I assume you posted the same question in the Long Hold forum. Hopefully you'll get responses. For some, holding long helps, for others, not so much. I think I'm among the latter. I can't say the same for you, but the advice I was given to try a small reduction, may work for you. Tough decision to make, and no easy answers.

 

I hope you can resolve your situation somehow, I wish I had a specific answer for you. I've now hit the  "benzo rage" stage. Heck, I'm so  that I'm pushing myself through this. I can manage a shower two days a week, take care of the cats (LitterRobot only needs emptying once a week!), put dishes in the dishwasher, run it through and empty it weekly. I get dressed and undressed, meals are simple, microwaving and poaching/simmering, All the bills for the house are on auto-pay, I get emails of due dates and emails when they are paid. I have things simplified as much as possible. As long as I can do the basics, despite the stomach burning/aching and up and down paresthesia (It's so bad at times, I feel like I'm plugged into an electric outlet  ). I'm stable enough to push on.

 

Thanks BL 

[[no...]]

Anyone doing or that did  a long hold get worse before got better? Now on 15 weeks (nearly 4 months) Of a long hold of my Diazepam  and feeling much worse, and a lot more disabled than I did in Month one or two, and can barely function or look after myself and I live alone with no help or support at all.

Mental state is also bad. Has anybody else experiences worse and gathered even more  symptoms during a long hold before improving?

 

Nova 

.

 

I did a long hold, but not more than two months for my longest (I have held for a month). I didn't feel better by the end of two months. I, too, live alone and have little help or support outside of a couple church people and state provided Peer and home care. The Peer helps me handle the withdrawal, navigate services, listens and advises. My Direct Care Worker does the housekeeping, takes out trash and recycling, and provides moral support and socialization. I get four 2 hour shifts 4 days a week from the state providers. Many US states provide similar services as part of overall mental health programs. Have you looked into seeing if such services are available to you? The church people assist with grocery shopping, medical appointments (most of mine are telehealth) and do other errands. If you are a member of a faith community, try there. Most are from my Catholic parish, but I have a few Methodists from a nearby church too. I met one through the NextDoor Neighborhood website. She and her husband have been helping ever since. My health insurance pays for the state providers. If you need help. insurance may cover it.

 

I never improved after holding for two months, and I recall posting back then about not really feeling any better, and often worse. Someone back then who had "gently walked off" Valium, responded to me. When she got like this, she had two choices' taper again or hold longer. She made a very small reduction in her dose, and actually felt better after. She encouraged me to try the same thing, and I did. And, yes, I did feel better. The one thing that hasn't been an issue for me much, is the mental issues. I was mistakenly prescribed benzos for what my Endocrinologist knew was a physical issue. I did have depression when I was first prescribed benzos, which made it worse, and I did at the higher doses of Valium, but once I got below 7 mg, it mostly went away. I never had an anxiety disorder, that I was wrongly diagnosed with.

 

I am having more of the physical symptoms; biggest are the stomach problems and paresthesia. I am temporarily holding until after the holidays. I'm hoping to resume tapering after, which will be about a month. I just find anything longer than a month doesn't work for me. Do you feel as though you struggle both physically and mentally? Are you feeling as though you aren't stable? The gist I am getting from your post is "yes" to both questions. I took a small reduction with a lot of trepidation, but in hindsight it was the correct thing to do. I actually stabilized well enough to resume tapering, and until this month, have continued. I did have to reduce the tapering amount in Spring, and that lower amount helped. I assume you posted the same question in the Long Hold forum. Hopefully you'll get responses. For some, holding long helps, for others, not so much. I think I'm among the latter. I can't say the same for you, but the advice I was given to try a small reduction, may work for you. Tough decision to make, and no easy answers.

 

I hope you can resolve your situation somehow, I wish I had a specific answer for you. I've now hit the  "benzo rage" stage. Heck, I'm so  that I'm pushing myself through this. I can manage a shower two days a week, take care of the cats (LitterRobot only needs emptying once a week!), put dishes in the dishwasher, run it through and empty it weekly. I get dressed and undressed, meals are simple, microwaving and poaching/simmering, All the bills for the house are on auto-pay, I get emails of due dates and emails when they are paid. I have things simplified as much as possible. As long as I can do the basics, despite the stomach burning/aching and up and down paresthesia (It's so bad at times, I feel like I'm plugged into an electric outlet  ). I'm stable enough to push on.

 

. Meant to ask what typing method are you using? I am doing cut and  hold myself

 

Nova  ❤️

[[Mo...]]

Thanks again Dottie! 

 

I was under the impression that the goal is to have an even amount of the drug in your system as much as possible, am I wrong?  There won't be issues with me taking such a higher dosage in the evening as compared to having two equal doses am and pm?  I'm sorry if i'm sounding difficult but I really want to understand and I am VERY grateful for your input. 

 

I've been on Valium for over two years so i'm stable.  I am not ready to taper but i'm just eager to have a plan before i'm ready...it may be sooner than I think mind you lol

 

Again, I truly appreciate your take on this.

 

Cheers

 

Monkey

 

 

If you go back to Bob7's reply, he asks about your sleep and any anxiety you are having. Are you sleeping okay with your nighttime dose? Are you more anxious in the am until you get in your am dose? You could split the 5pm dose and shift 1 mg to your morning dose, and 2 mg to your bedtime dose. Or do what Bob7 suggests and move your 5 pm dose entirely to your morning if anxiety is your biggest issue, or nighttime if insomnia is. Don't worry about having even levels; with Valium's extremely long half-life, it makes the perfect tapering med, as Heather Ashton herself realized, as your levels remain fairly steady. Which is why eventually as you taper, you'll be dosing only at bedtime. I dose once a day, at bedtime, as do many eventually do, and mostly do okay. I do notice by evening I have a slight uptick in symptoms, but once I get my bedtime dose in, and into bed, everything quiets down. There is a member on here that is a fast metabolizer, and she has to dose twice a day. Most of us are normal metabolizers, and it takes a few days for Valium's levels to drop significantly enough for you to really notice.

 

Again, you could do this gradually if you want to gauge how you feel. Move 1 mg to night, in 7 to 10 days move another 1 mg to the morning, after another 7 to 10 days move your remaining 1 mg 5 pm dose to night. There are lots of ways to do this. No one way is going to be correct. It's all based on your symptoms, and as Bob7 pointed out, what your main issue is; anxiety or insomnia. You'll need to decide how you want to go about this. Some just stayed at the 3x's a day dose, and began their taper with the daytime dose. So, you could start tapering the 5 pm dose. Though it seems you'd like to move to twice a day dosing, so it's a matter of shifting all or part of the 5 pm dose to either morning or bedtime. Ultimately, it's your choice.

 

Thanks again Dottie.  You've given me a lot of food for thought.  My sleep is pretty good and my anxiety i'm learning to accept which will eventually lead to loss of fear of the symptoms. 

 

I would like to be on just two doses before I start tapering so I will gradually move the 5pm dose to the morning and evening seeing as that's how it can be done.  When i'm ready i'll follow the Ashton chart depending on how my withdrawal symptoms are.  I know a few decade long users who were off Klonopin in a matter of months without too much difficulty so i'm confident a slow and steady taper with Valium will be even easier. 

 

Again, thanks for all your advice.  I'll be back when it comes time to start the journey.

 

Happy New Year full of discovery and peace 

 

Cheers!

 

Monkey

 

 

[[Be...]]

Meant to ask what typing method are you using? I am doing cut and  hold myself

 

Nova  ❤️

 

Currently cut and hold, but may be changing that at some point.

[[Be...]]

 

 

I would like to be on just two doses before I start tapering so I will gradually move the 5pm dose to the morning and evening seeing as that's how it can be done.  When i'm ready i'll follow the Ashton chart depending on how my withdrawal symptoms are. 

Monkey

 

You'll notice Ashton has you start with eliminating the morning dose. By the time you've eliminated it, you've been on Valium long enough to pretty much have even levels throughout your day with only the daily dose at night. You can start moving the 5 pm dose at a rate that is comfortable for you, that could be sooner than a week. The 7 to 10 days is merely a suggestion if you prefer to do this gradually. If you are feeling really stable and confident, you could just do it all at once. It all comes down to what you feel comfortable doing, and the symptoms you are having. Only you know what step you are ready to take.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

I would like to be on just two doses before I start tapering so I will gradually move the 5pm dose to the morning and evening seeing as that's how it can be done.  When i'm ready i'll follow the Ashton chart depending on how my withdrawal symptoms are. 

Monkey

 

You'll notice Ashton has you start with eliminating the morning dose. By the time you've eliminated it, you've been on Valium long enough to pretty much have even levels throughout your day with only the daily dose at night. You can start moving the 5 pm dose at a rate that is comfortable for you, that could be sooner than a week. The 7 to 10 days is merely a suggestion if you prefer to do this gradually. If you are feeling really stable and confident, you could just do it all at once. It all comes down to what you feel comfortable doing, and the symptoms you are having. Only you know what step you are ready to take.

 

Again, thank you Dottie for your precious wisdom and experience!  Slow and steady wins the race so i will be doing it gradually when the time comes.  I'm in no rush, I'm making sure i'm ready before I attempt anything...again, no rush!

 

Cheers.

 

Monkey

[[le...]]

I’ve had awful anxiety since being forced to go CT off zopiclone nearly 4 years ago. Got a lot worse nearly 3 months ago with bad physical symptoms, not really sure what triggered it. Have finally persuaded psych to presc me diazapam, she will only give me 5 mg a day for 3 months. Have ordered some on line in case need them . Been taken whole tablet about 4 weeks, jyst cut down to 3/4 a tablet, thinking will do that for about another 4 weeks, then 1/2 tablet and so on. They are helping with the anxiety, want to avoid the horrors of bad withdrawal suffered from the CT. Do others think that would be reasonable way to go.

[[ne...]]

Hello dear Valium crowd,

 

I recently reinstated to 5mg diazepam after spending 5 years protracted.  Does anyone know how many days it takes for the drug to build up to a stable dose in the brain?

[[wi...]]

Hey all. I'm currently at .65mg valium. I am curious where people usually jump. I am getting down to a level where it's hard for my scale to accurately read. I was thinking perhaps at .4mg.

[[Be...]]

Hey all. I'm currently at .65mg valium. I am curious where people usually jump. I am getting down to a level where it's hard for my scale to accurately read. I was thinking perhaps at .4mg.

 

Aston says you can jump at .5 mg, but many wait until .25 mg. Those who waited until .25 found that their acute was shorter and easier, because they started going through it while taking that last .25. And there are those who've gone lower. It depends on how you are feeling, if you are stable enough you would have made another cut, and you are at or below 5 mg, perhaps you're ready. Also consider how much you've been cutting towards the end. Another Buddie did .25 cuts from 5 mg and jumped after the last two weeks at .25 mg. 

[[Be...]]

Went I want to know the same. Only been on them 7 weeks, just to  help with very bad reaction to something, went on for months. Cut down to half 5 mg, but difficult cut tablets any smaller than quarter which is 1.25 mg. Wondering if I should ask fir 2 mg next time, or would 1.25  be OK to jump. No severe withdrawal symptoms so far been cutting about ever 2 weeks. Psych will only give me another  4 weeks worth? They have helped but def want come off them.

 

I'd ask for the 2 mg. Are you now taking 1.25 mg? If you can only get another 4 weeks worth, get the 2 mg, and work your way down to .5 mg over the next 4 weeks, and if you feel ready, then jump.

[[Be...]]

Taking half the 5 mg at moment will stay on that for about another week, then maybe cut to a quarter, then  if I get the 2 mg will be easier to cut lower. Doing it roughly every couple weeks seems be OK at moment. Has been a life saver for me, I am aware  that it’s not a long term solution, but was in such bad way needed something.

 

 

So, you are at 2.5 mg then. If you have enough to cut into quarters for 1.25 mg to get by for at least 10 days (14 would be better), then ask for the 2 mg. From there, you could work yourself down to .5 mg. If you have 10 days or less quarters of 1.25 mg. I would suggest your next cut then be down 1 mg. That would give you plenty still to drop by .5 mg per 2 weeks. 

[[St...]]

Advice:

 

I am down to 3.6mg val/day 1.2mg 3x day and the interdose w/d is horrible. Also I feel so much better before i take my morning dose, and also feel little to no symptoms whenever I lie down. Idk what my body is trying to tel me but i know it no longer likes this val. I want to speed up as i'm doing .03mg drop every 3 days currently and feel like this is dragging it out and only adding more med to my system for it to flush out. Am i crazy for thinking every dose i take only makes this worse? Im starting to think my body is either saying speed up or quit idk....

 

I'm at 3.5 mg, taken all at bedtime. V has an extremely long half-life, so interdose w/d is unheard of. That said, there are a few on here that are fast metabolizers. Even with V, they have to dose at least twice, if not 3x's a day.

 

I do find my w/d symptoms ramping up by late morning, and late afternoon. Lying down does calm things down. Afternoon rest is my meditation time. A lot of Buddies find meditation helpful. Some people find lying down during the day helpful, others are mostly bed-bound.

 

No, you are not crazy. Others have had your experience, mostly because they developed a paradoxical reaction to the benzo they are tapering. Unfortunately, if that is the case with you, the only solution is to rapidly taper off. You're low enough that you don't need to be concerned about seizures. Do you feel you can handle it? If you go this route, know that other buddies who rapid or cold-tapered are here to support you through the worst.

 

Finally, V has a way of sneaking up on you after you have been tapering for a while. I sometimes take a break to let my body to stabilize more as my reductions catch up with my current dose. I'm currently doing that now. If holding a bit isn't working for you, it's possible you simply can't tolerate V anymore. Then you need to decide of you want to c/t or rapid taper off the rest, and let the dice fall where they may.

 

I'm so late replying but thank you for this! I am now down to 3.27 and yes like you said I believe I have developed a paradoxical effect to it. I am definitely about to figure out a rapid taper and go from there because all I am sure of at this point is taking it always makes me feel way worse than not taking it. I just didn't want to stop because I am terribly afraid of what may come after 😩 but i'm equally as afraid of what happens if I continue to take it. I always said I can't handle going to 0 as I can tell my body has had enough of this stuff and ingesting anything under 1mg won't benefit me in the slightest. I thank you for the insight truly and will update on what I decide to do. Peace and love to you!

[[jo...]]

Hello everyone

 

I am tapering (dry cut) from a night time dose of 10mg of Diazepam, having dropped from 10mg to 9.2mg.  I am 10 days in with another 4 days to go, at which point I plan to drop to 8.4mg (8% ish reduction).  However, although initially I did not experience any withdrawal symptoms I have over the last few days been having a few minor episodes of anxiety, nausea, headaches etc.  Should I still reduce my dose to 8.4mg in 4 days time or do I wait to be symptom free?  The symptoms are minor and could be just how I am feeling and nothing to do with the tapering.

 

Interestingly, I read that someone became quite manic when reducing their dose.  I believe this happened to me in the first few days.  I decorated a bedroom and did a lot of Spring cleaning.  I also felt quite creative and did some interesting art work.

 

Best wishes from England to everyone.

 

Jo x