Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Hi...]]

ADVICE NEEDED! I am on 0.09 mg of Klonopin and am making the switch to 1 mg valium, any advice on how to do this as easily as possible would be appreciated thank you.

[[sp...]]

Is it possible to feel the cut from Valium after two days? I cut down from 6MG to 5MG on Monday night.... usually i feel the cut around day 8 or 9, but not before that. Im wondering if its just in my head. I didnt even think it was possible with valium to feel the cut after just two days. Isnt the half life like 5 days or something?

[[Su...]]

Is it possible to feel the cut from Valium after two days? I cut down from 6MG to 5MG on Monday night.... usually i feel the cut around day 8 or 9, but not before that. Im wondering if its just in my head. I didnt even think it was possible with valium to feel the cut after just two days. Isnt the half life like 5 days or something?

 

I feel a cut the next day -- yes the half life of some of the metabolites is 20-50-200 hours depending on who you read.  But the duration of action is 4-6 hours. 

but perhaps I'm just an outlier

[[sp...]]

Hmm, could be because im cutting more and more of a percentage. Last cut the symptoms started on day 7 i believe when before it was day 9 for past 3 cuts before that...I remember 10 years ago the cuts would affect me within 2-3 days.  Lord, i was doing great past 5 days after 15 days since last cut so decided to make another one. Didnt think it would only take 2 days though to start feeling it. Oh well it is what it is.

[[Pa...]]

I used to feel the cut on my first taper, after two days, like clockwork!  I was cutting half mg a week then.  I would drop on a sunday and would feel it on tuesday.  Now, i am dropping by one seventh every day so it isn't as predictable.

[[sp...]]

im curious if its because i quit drinking alcohol completely, havent had a drink for 2 weeks....last cut i had a few drinks maybe it was prolonging the symptoms who knows. Not even sure why im trying to figure it out. I guess i just want to know if its the cut or if im just feeling anxiety, depression ect for no reason.

[[Su...]]

im curious if its because i quit drinking alcohol completely, havent had a drink for 2 weeks....last cut i had a few drinks maybe it was prolonging the symptoms who knows. Not even sure why im trying to figure it out. I guess i just want to know if its the cut or if im just feeling anxiety, depression ect for no reason.

 

FWIW remember that every cut you are doing is a bigger percentage of the whole so it's likely that you will feel the cuts more.  A simplistic answer i know but it sure seems to count in the game of benzo w/d..

[[sp...]]

yeah i guess i just have to go with it, last few cuts were farther out, this one just after 2 days....who knows whats going on when it comes to the benzos and tapering,,,,,,i keep trying to figure it out but there isnt any figuring it out....its just a mess until your off them.

[[Al...]]

Im slowing down my cuts to .5 mg every two weeks.  Monday I started 4.5 and my T is high along with the cold legs and feet and mood swings.  Its tolerable today, we will see how tomorrow goes.  Spitfire you are speeding right along.  Im not brave enough to cut as much as you are ....  Let us know how it goes this week.

 

Alycat

[[sp...]]

Im slowing down my cuts to .5 mg every two weeks.  Monday I started 4.5 and my T is high along with the cold legs and feet and mood swings.  Its tolerable today, we will see how tomorrow goes.  Spitfire you are speeding right along.  Im not brave enough to cut as much as you are ....  Let us know how it goes this week.

 

Alycat

 

Yep im right there with ya....i cut down to 5MG two days ago already having symptoms...was pretty bad today for about 8 hours then all of a sudden it completely let up....im like ok like calm waiting for the storm? who knows jesus this stuff. Im doing the same though, going to go down starting from this point on only .5 instead of 1MG from 4.5 down to zero. Yes it will double the time to get off this stuff but honestly i cant afford to freak out and start drinking again which is first thing i do if things get real bad is reach for a bottle of whiskey then i go downhill very quick....then have to recover from a weeks worth of drinking which im sure wasnt good for my taper either or my brain.  I just want off this stuff so bad, but if this time is anything like last cut having a weeks drinking binge is not the way to do it, that means im cutting too fast even though its only 1MG. Symptoms are not manageable then and im just not admitting it.

[[Al...]]

I am taking Melatonin 3 mg and Gabapentin 100 mg 3x per day and I think it helps. Probiotics I think are staving off GI symptoms as I have none yet. I was also taking THC dummies but I read that they can spike tinnitus so Im not going to take it any more.  I don't know if CBD oil will help but atm I just want the T to calm down.  This tapering is like a puzzle with the pieces spread to the ends of the earth!  Why can't researchers give us some valid answers re. what helps and what doesn't with the differing symptoms? 

 

Alycat

[[Su...]]

Im slowing down my cuts to .5 mg every two weeks.  Monday I started 4.5 and my T is high along with the cold legs and feet and mood swings.  Its tolerable today, we will see how tomorrow goes.  Spitfire you are speeding right along.  Im not brave enough to cut as much as you are ....  Let us know how it goes this week.

 

Alycat

 

Yep im right there with ya....i cut down to 5MG two days ago already having symptoms...was pretty bad today for about 8 hours then all of a sudden it completely let up....im like ok like calm waiting for the storm? who knows jesus this stuff. Im doing the same though, going to go down starting from this point on only .5 instead of 1MG from 4.5 down to zero. Yes it will double the time to get off this stuff but honestly i cant afford to freak out and start drinking again which is first thing i do if things get real bad is reach for a bottle of whiskey then i go downhill very quick....then have to recover from a weeks worth of drinking which im sure wasnt good for my taper either or my brain.  I just want off this stuff so bad, but if this time is anything like last cut having a weeks drinking binge is not the way to do it, that means im cutting too fast even though its only 1MG. Symptoms are not manageable then and im just not admitting it.

 

Oh I so understand this dance of tapering -- I feel a bit better and decide to speed things up only to go splat!

It's difficult not to look at the end line but to keep today's sxs

But I've found trying to go faster only messed things up considerably!

And I got off Xanax in a snail's pace way... but it's gone gone gone!

 

Yes I've still got some V to go.

[[sp...]]

Do your symptoms just get worse as you go below 5MG? Sigh...im struggling this time again....cut down to 5MG and symptoms started up 2 days into it...last night had insomnia panicked at 2am and went and bought two beers and drank them and passed out, now i feel hung over and not well and still having a ton of anxiety and depression and symptoms cause of the cut (this is day 4 of the cut) i cant keep doing it this way its too disruptive since i have to work full time and im trying to buy a house. I cant just drink all day. Cuts will have to go to .5 milligram from now on. Last time 10 years ago i went through this i had a wife who supported me so i wouldnt have gone down to the store and got beers at 2am, theres something to be said about going through this with a partner in the house.  This is much harder alone. I let my provider know i want to hold at 5MG for a while since im at the halfway point and take a break. She wrote me a prescription for an additional 2 weeks worth of 5MG pills, that way i can hold at 5MG for 3 weeks before starting again. Funny, i wondered why this took me a year to get off this valium once i started my taper 10 years ago, now im starting to remember why....at least for me i think the last 4MG took about 4 to 6 months to get off of.

[[sp...]]

Are there better ways to get off the last 4MG other than dry cutting? Ive heard of people mixing it in almond milk or water titration everyday.....is that better? I dont know anything other than cutting it with a pill cutter.

[[ho...]]

Are there better ways to get off the last 4MG other than dry cutting? Ive heard of people mixing it in almond milk or water titration everyday.....is that better? I dont know anything other than cutting it with a pill cutter.

 

Hi…YES.  Slow down…LOL.  I know the wanting so bad to get off and just try and muscle through, only to have to “hold” and end up with debilitating sx.  The best way is the symptom based taper and the % based that works for each person.  As far as the method, cut and hold seems to be harder for most, not all.  I finally switched to a daily micro taper with liquid and pill’s, so a hybrid (it took me a while to figure this out).  I have my liquid done at a compound pharmacy and it is a tincture type (so held under the tongue, then swallowed) and it is pretty cheap.  Diazepam does come in a liquid form too.  I am at 1.57mg and when I get to 99ml (1mL =1mg in my solution) I will obviously be on all liquid at that point.  I found that the daily micro taper was much more gentle than the dry cut method for me, and I could manage my sx much better.  I still got into trouble going to fast many times ( I still do ) and would have to hold.  The lower in mg i got the %’s got much harder.  I also think I really taxed my CNS too much in the beginning sticking to the fast system of just trying to get off and I am still trying to recover from that, while also trying to reduce, recover and get off the final mg’s.  If that made sense. 

 

Obviously you can make your own liquid to do your titration if you wanted to try a DLMT as many do, and are very successful with this, as well as many do the scale method of weighing their doses and still cutting daily too.  It just depends on what you are most comfortable with.  When I was researching this, by reading those who had gone before me, it just seemed that those who had gone to a daily micro taper seemed to have less sx and more control over their taper over all.  Then they talked a lot about the “symptom based”, and that really spoke to me.

 

I would encourage you to break up with your calendar (focusing on the end date, counting the mg and weeks) and instead focus on healing while you gently walk off the benzo’s, so your CNS can heal during the process.  Turning to alcohol, which is a stimulant is counter productive and will only aggravate the process.  A quick fix with TERRIBLE SX.  I rarely drink anymore, I miss my wine but the stimulant isn’t worth it.  You mention having to work full time and also buying a house (thats huge) and remaining functional is the goal.  As you go lower, the % and cutting will just get more intense.  However, I have seen some people on here be able to handle it (just a few) and that is where “symptom based” comes in.  But you are already having to hold….so with that, you may want to figure out what % works best for you and your symptoms, and not focus on a # of mg’s.  Just a suggestion and something you will need to discuss with your doctor obviously.

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

ADVICE NEEDED! I am on 0.09 mg of Klonopin and am making the switch to 1 mg valium, any advice on how to do this as easily as possible would be appreciated thank you.

 

Hi Hilly- Did you get your question answered?  Is your K liquid and is the V going to be liquid or pill?  How often do you dose?  I would try and make a transition over a 2 weeks.  It is such a small amount so that is hard, and I am just guessing….Maybe see how you feel.  Maybe even 3 weeks.  Definitely go slow. 

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

Hi BB’s - I hope everyone is having a good week. 

 

Lottie- I never thanked you for answering the fat question. 

 

It is crazy how the sx from the cuts can hit us.  I remember when I was doing cut and hold and by day 3, they would hit like a ton of bricks. Even sometimes by night 2.  One time I will never forget, I messed up on a dose by 1mg and I didn’t know what was going on, just that i was completely “off”…I figured it out (it was 24 hours later) so just 1 mg, and I was feeling bad w/in 24 hours.  Now, it creeps up on my slowly with the daily micro dosing, and like I have said before, I just haven’t quite figured it out.  I can’t find a clear pattern on this.  I will start to get a burning in my face, and my tinnitus increases, so those are my alarm bell’s that things are going south.  If I start holding, I can stave off the bad benzo flu.

 

It would be nice if they could figure out something to help us get over the process of benzo w/d.  Maybe in the future they will.  Will it be in the USA? Hmmmmm……that is probably not the discussion for this forum.  It is just crazy how some people can get off of benzo’s so much easier than other people.  That is what blows my mind.  Why me…….LOL

 

Marie

[[Al...]]

Has anyone successfully tapered off Diazepam with just dry cut?  Anyone recommend a good scale?

[[ho...]]

Has anyone successfully tapered off Diazepam with just dry cut?  Anyone recommend a good scale?

 

Hi Alycat - I’m not sure about your dry-cut question. I bought the “Smart Weigh, High Precision Milligram Jewelry Scale GEM50” on Amazon, because it was recommended from this forum a couple of years ago.  I have it for back up, just in case I couldn’t get my liquid ( something goes wrong).  However, maybe in the last couple of years there is now a better scale?  I think there are threads here that are dedicated to dry daily tapers….or search for scales?

 

*I edited my response.  Dry cutting.

 

Hope your day is going well….

 

Marie

[[Pa...]]

I am using dry cut only, I bought the "Smart Weigh, Digital Jewelry Scale , Gem 20" from amazon.  It was not expensive.  It seems accurate.  I'm at 3.8mgs tonight!

[[Al...]]

Thanks for the suggestions, Im going to order that scale.

[[sp...]]

Are there better ways to get off the last 4MG other than dry cutting? Ive heard of people mixing it in almond milk or water titration everyday.....is that better? I dont know anything other than cutting it with a pill cutter.

 

Hi…YES.  Slow down…LOL.  I know the wanting so bad to get off and just try and muscle through, only to have to “hold” and end up with debilitating sx.  The best way is the symptom based taper and the % based that works for each person.  As far as the method, cut and hold seems to be harder for most, not all.  I finally switched to a daily micro taper with liquid and pill’s, so a hybrid (it took me a while to figure this out).  I have my liquid done at a compound pharmacy and it is a tincture type (so held under the tongue, then swallowed) and it is pretty cheap.  Diazepam does come in a liquid form too.  I am at 1.57mg and when I get to 99ml (1mL =1mg in my solution) I will obviously be on all liquid at that point.  I found that the daily micro taper was much more gentle than the dry cut method for me, and I could manage my sx much better.  I still got into trouble going to fast many times ( I still do ) and would have to hold.  The lower in mg i got the %’s got much harder.  I also think I really taxed my CNS too much in the beginning sticking to the fast system of just trying to get off and I am still trying to recover from that, while also trying to reduce, recover and get off the final mg’s.  If that made sense. 

 

Obviously you can make your own liquid to do your titration if you wanted to try a DLMT as many do, and are very successful with this, as well as many do the scale method of weighing their doses and still cutting daily too.  It just depends on what you are most comfortable with.  When I was researching this, by reading those who had gone before me, it just seemed that those who had gone to a daily micro taper seemed to have less sx and more control over their taper over all.  Then they talked a lot about the “symptom based”, and that really spoke to me.

 

I would encourage you to break up with your calendar (focusing on the end date, counting the mg and weeks) and instead focus on healing while you gently walk off the benzo’s, so your CNS can heal during the process.  Turning to alcohol, which is a stimulant is counter productive and will only aggravate the process.  A quick fix with TERRIBLE SX.  I rarely drink anymore, I miss my wine but the stimulant isn’t worth it.  You mention having to work full time and also buying a house (thats huge) and remaining functional is the goal.  As you go lower, the % and cutting will just get more intense.  However, I have seen some people on here be able to handle it (just a few) and that is where “symptom based” comes in.  But you are already having to hold….so with that, you may want to figure out what % works best for you and your symptoms, and not focus on a # of mg’s.  Just a suggestion and something you will need to discuss with your doctor obviously.

 

Marie

 

I know 10 years ago when i went through this it took me a whole year to taper off of 10MG....i honestly dont remember how that took me so long since i was dry cutting. My guess is just like now, i suffered (this i do remember) terribly with insomnia and a whole list of symptoms that was just awful. I am guessing i suffered for days then held, suffered then held. I remember it being the worst experience of my life. I almost lost my job (calling in sick so much) and basically became an alcoholic out of it and had to then get off of booze. This is now becoming the same thing. I go for a few weeks feeling good, take the 1MG cut and then become an alcoholic for about a week because of the symptoms, then dry out and am feeling good for about a week until the cut starts again...and around and around i go. This is not working for me, i do have a therapist and am working on how to deal with the insomnia and anxiety with the cuts but man sometimes its just so bad i cant take it...thats when the alcohol comes in....then thats it...i cant stop drinking.

 

So im wondering something, this micro taper.....so i am at 5MG V.... if i cut down .5 every two weeks thats another 4 months to get off this stuff. I have no idea how to work a micro taper....it could be what i need? But i have no idea.... would it take me longer to come off of 5MG V if i micro taper? (i know i should forget about calendar) im just curious im the type that needs all the information i think too much. I would be willing to do it, ive seen videos of people dropping thier pills into water, ect. i just dont undestand anything about it but am willing to try anything other than what im going through. Even cutting .5 every 2 weeks seems slower than hell but i have no choice...1MG is just too much for me. My Dr. is not the type to understand, she doesnt understand tapering and is barely tollerating me moving over to Valium from Xanax....she thinks a 2 month taper off of xanax is a super long taper to begin with....so if someone could direct me to a post that would explain micro tapering? id be willing to try it i just have no idea how to do it.

[[Pa...]]

I'm still dry cutting 1mg every two weeks, but instead of one big cut, I drop 1/7th of a mg every two nights.  I find my brain doesn't notice the little tiny cuts as much.  If it becomes too fast under 3mgs, I will drop 1/7th of a mg every three or four nights.

[[Al...]]

How do you cut 1/7 of such a small piece?  Im taking gabap as well but I spread it out during the day 100 mg @ hs and melatonin w 4.5 mg Diaz, 200 mg at 3 am,  100 mg around 2 pm.  400 mg total.  It helps.

 

Alycat

[[ho...]]

Are there better ways to get off the last 4MG other than dry cutting? Ive heard of people mixing it in almond milk or water titration everyday.....is that better? I dont know anything other than cutting it with a pill cutter.

 

Hi…YES.  Slow down…LOL.  I know the wanting so bad to get off and just try and muscle through, only to have to “hold” and end up with debilitating sx.  The best way is the symptom based taper and the % based that works for each person.  As far as the method, cut and hold seems to be harder for most, not all.  I finally switched to a daily micro taper with liquid and pill’s, so a hybrid (it took me a while to figure this out).  I have my liquid done at a compound pharmacy and it is a tincture type (so held under the tongue, then swallowed) and it is pretty cheap.  Diazepam does come in a liquid form too.  I am at 1.57mg and when I get to 99ml (1mL =1mg in my solution) I will obviously be on all liquid at that point.  I found that the daily micro taper was much more gentle than the dry cut method for me, and I could manage my sx much better.  I still got into trouble going to fast many times ( I still do ) and would have to hold.  The lower in mg i got the %’s got much harder.  I also think I really taxed my CNS too much in the beginning sticking to the fast system of just trying to get off and I am still trying to recover from that, while also trying to reduce, recover and get off the final mg’s.  If that made sense. 

 

Obviously you can make your own liquid to do your titration if you wanted to try a DLMT as many do, and are very successful with this, as well as many do the scale method of weighing their doses and still cutting daily too.  It just depends on what you are most comfortable with.  When I was researching this, by reading those who had gone before me, it just seemed that those who had gone to a daily micro taper seemed to have less sx and more control over their taper over all.  Then they talked a lot about the “symptom based”, and that really spoke to me.

 

I would encourage you to break up with your calendar (focusing on the end date, counting the mg and weeks) and instead focus on healing while you gently walk off the benzo’s, so your CNS can heal during the process.  Turning to alcohol, which is a stimulant is counter productive and will only aggravate the process.  A quick fix with TERRIBLE SX.  I rarely drink anymore, I miss my wine but the stimulant isn’t worth it.  You mention having to work full time and also buying a house (thats huge) and remaining functional is the goal.  As you go lower, the % and cutting will just get more intense.  However, I have seen some people on here be able to handle it (just a few) and that is where “symptom based” comes in.  But you are already having to hold….so with that, you may want to figure out what % works best for you and your symptoms, and not focus on a # of mg’s.  Just a suggestion and something you will need to discuss with your doctor obviously.

 

Marie

 

I know 10 years ago when i went through this it took me a whole year to taper off of 10MG....i honestly dont remember how that took me so long since i was dry cutting. My guess is just like now, i suffered (this i do remember) terribly with insomnia and a whole list of symptoms that was just awful. I am guessing i suffered for days then held, suffered then held. I remember it being the worst experience of my life. I almost lost my job (calling in sick so much) and basically became an alcoholic out of it and had to then get off of booze. This is now becoming the same thing. I go for a few weeks feeling good, take the 1MG cut and then become an alcoholic for about a week because of the symptoms, then dry out and am feeling good for about a week until the cut starts again...and around and around i go. This is not working for me, i do have a therapist and am working on how to deal with the insomnia and anxiety with the cuts but man sometimes its just so bad i cant take it...thats when the alcohol comes in....then thats it...i cant stop drinking.

 

So im wondering something, this micro taper.....so i am at 5MG V.... if i cut down .5 every two weeks thats another 4 months to get off this stuff. I have no idea how to work a micro taper....it could be what i need? But i have no idea.... would it take me longer to come off of 5MG V if i micro taper? (i know i should forget about calendar) im just curious im the type that needs all the information i think too much. I would be willing to do it, ive seen videos of people dropping thier pills into water, ect. i just dont undestand anything about it but am willing to try anything other than what im going through. Even cutting .5 every 2 weeks seems slower than hell but i have no choice...1MG is just too much for me. My Dr. is not the type to understand, she doesnt understand tapering and is barely tollerating me moving over to Valium from Xanax....she thinks a 2 month taper off of xanax is a super long taper to begin with....so if someone could direct me to a post that would explain micro tapering? id be willing to try it i just have no idea how to do it.

 

Hi-  This is a bit complicated because there is a lot going on.  First, you will absolutely have to wrap your head around the fact of a longer taper…

“Breaking up with the calendar”.  I was like you.  I just had to see it all, I had it all scheduled out in my mind and so on.  However, I was in a world of hurt with SX and it wasn’t getting better.  Unfortunately the lower we go with the mg, the slower it “can” go because of the % of the cut’s when we get to the low mg’s.  Like for me, I am doing about 8% this month (that includes about a week hold) and that is about as fast as I can go so that was like 1.70 mg to 1.55mg (I should be there on the 9th).  So it can get really slow towards the end, and that was really hard for me to come to terms with.  It still bothers me to be honest, BUT it is so much more important for me to be functional and also know I am actually healing at the same time while weaning off.  In the beginning it was so bad, I could hardly shower….I’m not exaggerating.  I would just stand in the shower, barely soap and cry.  It would take me hours to get myself into the shower, and it wasn’t the shower, it was having to dry myself off and get dressed as that was too my work for me.  I was soooo sick.    Going back to that state of being, is not worth getting of benzo’s quickly.

 

Your doctor could be a problem, and if so, you might want to look for a more benzo savvy doctor who would be willing to work with you and allow you to set your pace.  You could try bringing her information about the %’s and how important it is to go slow and the newest information about this, and see if she would be open.

 

There are places in the forum that talk about micro tapers, you could search for them and read through the information.  I think YouTube also has information too.  What is nice about a micro taper is that you control the amount each day that you taper down by and it can easily be changed by holding the dose, or changing the dose.  You can figure out your % of dosing depending on if it is liquid or pill weight by pretty easily.  You would just need to decide if you want to do a liquid, a pill/weighing or a liquid/pill hybrid and then go from there. 

 

As far as cutting .5 every 2 weeks…from 5 to 4.5 it’s 10% and then 4.5 to 4 is 11.11%, so in 1 month you are at 21% reduction and that is pretty hi…going from 4 to 3.5 would be 12.5% and 3.5 to 3 14.3% putting you at 26.8% the next month and it would only get much worse much faster.  The rule of thumb is 5-10% every 2 weeks and that is even too fast for many. 

 

I hope you will find what works for you going forward and that your doctor will also be will to support your decisions.

 

Marie