Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mi...]]

Katz

Did he carry his issues with valium with him.or did they leave when he changed med?

Hi, Through. My buddie switched directly. He calculated the equivalency of k to valium and made sure his psych (he didn't completely trust him) substituted the correct amount of k for his v. Fortunately his psych didn't get insulted. (The irony is he's a psychotherapist -- anyone can get bamboozled by these drugs.) Anyhow, he was very careful when he substituted one for the other drug. We were in touch almost daily (several of us were pretty close in the old "working group") and as I recall, his taper went smoothly after he got on k. He felt more or less okay (apart from some visual and auditory disturbances which while aggravating, weren't debilitating) and was still able to work.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

Widesky

Do you ever have any periods of feeling good/ok on the valium?

When I go into a dip I get the bad mental symptoms.

Just trying to work out next move?

Thanks

MP

I hate valium also..horrible withdrawal and mental symptoms are abominable, which of course are taboo to post about. 

xanax interdisse w/d came on like a freight train, so fast, but diazepam you get kicked in the ass (for me anyway) like a week later or even longer because it leaves so slowly from the body.  I regret switching in a way, too.  Don't know what I'm going to do about anything right now.  Getting through one day is a challenge.

[[or...]]

No, Miss P. He felt better (but not great) on k. He had quite a few nasty issues on valium but they gradually dissipated when he changed to k. His taper was still a challenge, but not so awful as when he was an valium.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

Thank you Katz. I am really struggling here and just think I have messed everything up and I wont be able to get off. I totally am stressing  myself put to the point I cant function x

[[or...]]

Missfrida, it's interesting . . . I was at the same exact dose of Ativan as you are on, and I switched to valium It went very smoothly.

 

Here's my take on why you are having trouglw. You are going too fast. Ashton's scheule for ativan to valium cross is here:

 

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

It's Schedule 3.

 

She advises each swap take 1-2 weeks. Yet you've told us that you made another swap in only 6 days. No wonder you feel awful. I suggest you REALLY read Schedule 3 and figure out what you will do. Make your own chart and follow it. Maybe stay at one dose for the full 2 weeks. I did and things turned out fine. Yes, you can make the switch but you are going to have to be a little more conscientious about it imo. Have faith . . . things will turn out . . . but don't rush and follow the schedule.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

Oregon!!

 

I've been dying to talk to you! Thanks for replying. I am actually following schedule 8 since i am on a lower dose of Ativan. I made my own schedule out of that and so the total for Valium is 15mg and the switched out first dose (evening) goes from .5 Ativan to .25 and the valium dose is 2.5. Does that make sense? Basically halving schedule 8. Yes looks like i will have to hold each swap for longer. I just still feel like such crap and wonder if the .5 Ati 3x day is even enough to start to taper as i don't feel stable, but i don't want to updose either as I hate this drug so much. This could also be  exacerbated by having POTS (i had it before but the drugs really put me in a flare) or maybe the Ambien is making this harder. I dunno. My doctor is also considering a liquid Ativan taper but i worry about interdose with that. I am sad, scared, confused and NEED to try to work throughout this whole thing. is that even remotely possible.

 

Thanks,

Sherri

[[wi...]]

Widesky

Do you ever have any periods of feeling good/ok on the valium?

When I go into a dip I get the bad mental symptoms.

Just trying to work out next move?

Thanks

MP

I hate valium also..horrible withdrawal and mental symptoms are abominable, which of course are taboo to post about. 

xanax interdisse w/d came on like a freight train, so fast, but diazepam you get kicked in the ass (for me anyway) like a week later or even longer because it leaves so slowly from the body.  I regret switching in a way, too.  Don't know what I'm going to do about anything right now.  Getting through one day is a challenge.

 

Unfortunately , I do not.  I'm scared and confused as to what to do.  I am totally paradoxical now whenever I take any dose.

[[Mi...]]

Widesky

Do you ever have any periods of feeling good/ok on the valium?

When I go into a dip I get the bad mental symptoms.

Just trying to work out next move?

Thanks

MP

I hate valium also..horrible withdrawal and mental symptoms are abominable, which of course are taboo to post about. 

xanax interdisse w/d came on like a freight train, so fast, but diazepam you get kicked in the ass (for me anyway) like a week later or even longer because it leaves so slowly from the body.  I regret switching in a way, too.  Don't know what I'm going to do about anything right now.  Getting through one day is a challenge.

 

Unfortunately , I do not.  I'm scared and confused as to what to do.  I am totally paradoxical now whenever I take any dose.

 

How long have you been like that for?

Take big care

MP

[[or...]]

Yes, it's possible to complete a cross and feel more or less okay. I'm glad you have a plan and a schedule to follow. I am a weenie and went really slowly. things worked out. I don't think you need to go back to your all-Ativan dose and start over. If I were you, I'd just hold doing what you're doing. Let your body get used to the new "normal". Being on both a long-acting benzo and a short-acting benzo is not fun for your body, so be gentle with yourself.

 

I was also on Ambien (which wasn't working, aaaarg) during my taper. I tapered it later.

 

A direct taper from Ativan using liquid Ativan? Hmmm. If it were me, I'd persevere with the cross to valium. A little confession: I got so squirrely on Ativan 3x a day (interdose wds) that I briefly went to 4x a day . . . and then decided I'd cross to valium Best decision I ever made.

 

Hope you feel better. Just go slow.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

How did you dose at 4x a day? Did you go up in total amount per day? Is it possible my body is feeling the loss from .5 to .25 A from last night already in the morning even though im on the 2.5mg valium? Is it possible it's not enough V? UGH. I feel so shitty today. I actually had to take a little ambien a few hours ago just to level out a bit and feel ok and it worked, which makes me feel like there just isn't enough med in me to be starting this taper. I dunno. I am really scared (that fear can be absolutely fueling part of this anxiety I'm feeling).

 

Lastly, cutting the .5 Ativan to .25 is so inexact. I am using a pill splitter but the halves aren't uniform. This worries me too!

 

Thanks for the input OK!!  I really appreciate it...

 

Sherri

[[or...]]

Yes, my bad, I increased my Ativan and took it 4x daily (one just  before bedtime in the foolish belief it would help me sleep . . .  I moved the other doses closer together) but within a week I still had interdose w/ds.  So I looked down the road and saw no good future there. Steady increases? And I still felt panicked and miserable. So I bit the bullet, went back to 3X a day on a lower dose and began my cross. It was a bit rocky at first, but I persisted, went slow, and things smoothed out.

 

What your body is tellin you is: "Help! I don't have enough Ativan! I feel like crap! And what is this dumb valium anyhow? It's doing nothing for me!" But you have to give the valium a chance. It's a different drug than Ativan. It needs to build up in your system. It lasts longer, is smoother and doesn't give you the instant relief that Ativan does. It will just take awhile for your body to re-engineer things. Eventually it'll be used to the valium and Ativan will be a distant memory.

 

I have no doubt that your feeling scared is fueling your anxiety. It's a horrid feeling.

 

Lordy, I hear you about pill-splitting, but do your best. I used a razor blade. It seemed to work better than a pill splitter. Don't worry too much about the halves not being uniform. As long as you take them sequentially (i.e. the smaller "half" then the larger "half" for the next dose, you'll have the same amount of drug daily in your system).

 

Miss, this is probably the hardest thing you will ever do in your life. At least it was for me. But when my taper was over and I felt well, I started a new business . . . a publishing company! I could never have done that had I stayed on benzos. And the truly pissy thing is that I never wanted to be on Ativan (xanax before that). The drug was prescribed for me after a cardiac incident because I was (duh) anxious. I was hooked before I knew what was happening. Thanks, doc.

 

Hang in there. Things will get better. You're just at the beginning of your cross.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

What's so interesting is that I used to take small amounts of valium as needed for anxiety and it worked amazingly. It was quick (i would just dissolve a small piece under my tongue) and it helped. Since getting on the Ativan (i was put on it because i had such a strong anxiety and nausea reaction to 25mg of Zoloft when i switched on to that med from Prozac in Sept) the valium has acted totally differently, It doesn't feel like a relief and the Ativan NEVER did. Just the first dose. After that it's felt terrible. I guess I will keep going with switching out the evening dose for 2 weeks or so and see how that goes. I am just so scared. Terrified, really, of all of this. I cannot imagine cutting or weighing pills or or doing a liquid taper i make myself. I see people on here do it all the time but when it comes to me doing something like that I feel completely overwhelmed.

 

Thanks for your help...

 

Sherri

[[wi...]]

Widesky

Do you ever have any periods of feeling good/ok on the valium?

When I go into a dip I get the bad mental symptoms.

Just trying to work out next move?

Thanks

MP

I hate valium also..horrible withdrawal and mental symptoms are abominable, which of course are taboo to post about. 

xanax interdisse w/d came on like a freight train, so fast, but diazepam you get kicked in the ass (for me anyway) like a week later or even longer because it leaves so slowly from the body.  I regret switching in a way, too.  Don't know what I'm going to do about anything right now.  Getting through one day is a challenge.

 

Unfortunately , I do not.  I'm scared and confused as to what to do.  I am totally paradoxical now whenever I take any dose.

 

How long have you been like that for?

Take big care

MP

 

Since my first reduction after completing the crossover had been torture.  It is a completely different type of drug anticonvulsant/benzo mix, where xanax was a hypnotic benzo and gave instant relief.  I think I may be reacting to the anticonvulsant  factor.  I really don't know w anymore.  I want to speed up  my taper, because I feel so miserable when I take the diazepam. It also gives me crazy thoughts, irritability and anger like I want to break things.  It's horrible, I feel crazy.

When switching to another drug you never know if it is the drug itself to which you are having an adverse reaction, or just w/d from a taper. 

Also note, that diazepam is not intended to treat panic disorder but just "anxiety", where xanax does.  I think those of us with panic issues may be reacting to the diazepam taper rebound panic not being targeted.  Perhaps that is the hypnotic class of benzo versus the anticonvulsant class benzo having been prescribed.

Just my two cents.  That shouldn't apply to you since I believe Ativan is in the anticonvulsant benzo class anxiolytic.

[[Mi...]]

Yes, my bad, I increased my Ativan and took it 4x daily (one just  before bedtime in the foolish belief it would help me sleep . . .  I moved the other doses closer together) but within a week I still had interdose w/ds.  So I looked down the road and saw no good future there. Steady increases? And I still felt panicked and miserable. So I bit the bullet, went back to 3X a day on a lower dose and began my cross. It was a bit rocky at first, but I persisted, went slow, and things smoothed out.

 

What your body is tellin you is: "Help! I don't have enough Ativan! I feel like crap! And what is this dumb valium anyhow? It's doing nothing for me!" But you have to give the valium a chance. It's a different drug than Ativan. It needs to build up in your system. It lasts longer, is smoother and doesn't give you the instant relief that Ativan does. It will just take awhile for your body to re-engineer things. Eventually it'll be used to the valium and Ativan will be a distant memory.

 

I have no doubt that your feeling scared is fueling your anxiety. It's a horrid feeling.

 

Lordy, I hear you about pill-splitting, but do your best. I used a razor blade. It seemed to work better than a pill splitter. Don't worry too much about the halves not being uniform. As long as you take them sequentially (i.e. the smaller "half" then the larger "half" for the next dose, you'll have the same amount of drug daily in your system).

 

Miss, this is probably the hardest thing you will ever do in your life. At least it was for me. But when my taper was over and I felt well, I started a new business . . . a publishing company! I could never have done that had I stayed on benzos. And the truly pissy thing is that I never wanted to be on Ativan (xanax before that). The drug was prescribed for me after a cardiac incident because I was (duh) anxious. I was hooked before I knew what was happening. Thanks, doc.

 

Hang in there. Things will get better. You're just at the beginning of your cross.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

 

 

 

Katz,

I am having issues. I am currently still switching out my evening dose of Ativan for Diazepam as part of the crossover and have my ambien down to 25mg from what i thought was a stable 30mg but that cut OMG. After a few days I really feel it. I guess I need to cut the Ambien slower down from 30. Is there a way for me to get a taper plan and how do I taper by milligrams when they are 10mg pills? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Sherri

[[Be...]]

 

 

Lastly, cutting the .5 Ativan to .25 is so inexact. I am using a pill splitter but the halves aren't uniform. This worries me too!

 

Sherri

 

I have never found an exact pill splitter. Singe-edge razor blade on plastic cutting mat works better.

[[Mi...]]

So you just eyeball what a half will be?

[[or...]]

Miss, I think you just tough out the cross from A to V. Sounds heartless, but if you follow Ashton, it will eventually be okay.

 

Now . . . why on earth are you tapering your Ambien at the same time? imo tapering one drug . .  and crossing from one to the other, is enough. No wonder you feel bad. Really, why are you dong this? Yeah, the Ambien needs to go, but I decided to do it AFTER the valium. I was feeling rotten enough with my valium taper. Also, if you try to taper 2 drugs you will not know what's what.

 

We're urged not to be prescriptive on here as in telling people what to do, but my gentle *suggestion* is to think very carefully about why you would want to double the pain. Can't the Ambien wait until later?

 

Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

 

Sorry you feel so rotten . . . but rotten goes with the territory. I felt good, really good, about 2 years AFTER my tapers. All 3 of them.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Be...]]

So you just eyeball what a half will be?

 

Well, the Valium pills I get for tapering are all scored, so I just line up the blade over the score indentation, and push down. The real fun comes when I am splitting a 2 mg pill in half, then splitting that half into 3rd's or quarters. Then I eyeball it as close as I can get it. Do the cuts I need for the next cut and hold period, and put them in an empty pill bottle. I use the largest piece first, and wind down to the smallest. Not perfect, but V is so forgiving, it works for me. That may change in the future. In about 10 days, I'll be down to 3.5 mg V. I'm using half a 5 mg tablet, half a 2 mg tablet, and .33 pieces made by cutting the 1 mg half into 3rds. My provider, a certified specialist in addiction and dependency, says this is fine, it all evens out due to V's long half-life.

 

Before I got a package of single-edge razor blades, I cut along the score using a sharp knife. A really sharp paring knife. Razor blade is what others on BB use, so I went with that. 

[[Be...]]

Yes, it's possible to complete a cross and feel more or less okay. I'm glad you have a plan and a schedule to follow. I am a weenie and went really slowly. things worked out. I don't think you need to go back to your all-Ativan dose and start over. If I were you, I'd just hold doing what you're doing. Let your body get used to the new "normal". Being on both a long-acting benzo and a short-acting benzo is not fun for your body, so be gentle with yourself.

 

I was also on Ambien (which wasn't working, aaaarg) during my taper. I tapered it later.

 

A direct taper from Ativan using liquid Ativan? Hmmm. If it were me, I'd persevere with the cross to valium. A little confession: I got so squirrely on Ativan 3x a day (interdose wds) that I briefly went to 4x a day . . . and then decided I'd cross to valium Best decision I ever made.

 

Hope you feel better. Just go slow.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

I have said before that my crossover from K to V was faster than Aston recommends. The V was so sedating, I dropped the 5 mg Ambien I was on within a week. I felt pretty good, didn't miss the Ambien. But I know I am somewhat of an anomaly. And I wouldn't suggest anybody do what  did. Klonopin does have a longer half-life than Ativan or Xanax, so some might handle a faster crossover, as the V is building up as the K winds down. A and X are short-acting, they clear out ore quickly. As I've gotten lower on V, I've had to make smaller cuts, hold at times. I plan on holding at 3.5 mg through Christmas. Give my body time to catch up. I'm finding periodic short holds help. I did a longer hold once. It's the last thing I wanted to do, but I think it was the correct decision. I went back into cutting and tapering, but noticing an uptick in w/d symptoms. I'm trying to get to the 3.5 mg, then hold over the holiday season. 

[[Mi...]]

Ah you are both so helpful. Ok so continue the cross to Diazepam from Ativan fully and then see how I feel about the Ambien? Maybe i can taper when I'm on the full Diazepam dose. I did the crossover before in the evening dose and was successful but when i got to the morning dose after a week it was horrible. I felt so dizzy. I wonder if that may have been cause i was also lowering the Ambien a little. God i hate being on so many drugs. It really sucks. Katz I would love to not wait like a year to lower Ambien cause my dose is so high. I really want to get that down!! I think it really, really is affecting how the other drugs are acting in my body. Also if i wanted to use liquid Diazepam for my taper is that a possibility? 

 

Lastly, Oregon, you said you followed schedule 2 of Ashton for your 15mg Valium taper but it took you 33 months? Was it hard the whole time or just towards the end. Do you remember how long your crossover was from A to V?

 

Thank you!!

[[or...]]

Miss:

 

Maybe i can taper when I'm on the full Diazepam dose.

 

Of curse you can! Don't try tapering on the crossover. Just cross . . . then taper.

 

I would love to not wait like a year to lower Ambien cause my dose is so high.

 

I wouldn't taper two drugs at once. I get it that you feel bad . .  so did I, but I tapered one at a time because I was concerned I wouldn't know which drug was making me feel what if I tapered two. Also, it's twice as hard on your body. Be gentle with yourself . . .  and be patient.

 

I followed Ashton for the cross and I believe it took 15 weeks.

 

No, my taper was pretty easy (well sorta) until I got to about 5 mgs. Then it got really hard. I realized that following Ashton all the way down was not great for me as the %s got bigger and bigger and I was not calculating them. .5 mgs from say 10 mgs of valium is a much smaller  % than .5 mgs from 6 mgs of valium. I needed to dial back my taper %s to about 10% . . .  then I felt better. Actually  when I went to a DLMT at 3 mgs of valium I felt best of all. Yeah, it made the process longer but I was able to work, socialize and live my life.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

 

 

[[Mi...]]

Ok Katz that's what I want. I want to be able to live my life while doing this! Is that gonna be possible in crossover you think? What about while I taper down from Valium? Should I start DLMT sooner? Can i do DLMT directly from the pharmacy liquid?  Did you use any meds to help you while tapering?

 

THANK YOU!!!

[[Be...]]

Ah you are both so helpful. Ok so continue the cross to Diazepam from Ativan fully and then see how I feel about the Ambien? Maybe i can taper when I'm on the full Diazepam dose. I did the crossover before in the evening dose and was successful but when i got to the morning dose after a week it was horrible. I felt so dizzy. I wonder if that may have been cause i was also lowering the Ambien a little.

 

You haven't given your body enough time to get used to the V, don't mess with the Ambien while you are still in the process of crossing over. You say you are on a high dose of Ambien, I'm siding with Katz here and suggesting you not try to cut the Ambien once you start tapering the V. It's suggested here that you not taper more than one drug at a time. I chose to eliminate the Ambien first, but I was only on 5 mg, so it really didn't affect me. Focus on finishing the crossover, then start your taper once you are stable. It's entirely up to you as to whether you want to taper the V or the Ambien first. But if you're on a high dose of Ambien, it's the lesser of the two, so you might want to tackle V, and hold off on the Ambien until you are finished with the V.

 

I know it seems like a daunting task, I've been doing this for 2 years and 4 months, and am now at 3.79 mg V. It hasn't been easy, I've been pushing myself through because I'm getting closer to the finish line. A former Peer support person I had through a state program I get services through, dealt with benzo's herself. She told me once, "It's a marathon, not a sprint." A sprint is a short, quick race. A marathon is a long race, it's hours, not minutes. I feel like I'm reaching that last leg of the marathon, but I've yet to see the finish line. It's a daunting task, but it's doable. The hardest thing is being patient with the process. Things that help are distraction, distraction, distraction. Meditation in the afternoon. Meeting with my current Peer and my DCW (Direct Care Worker) from the agencies the state contracts with. They each come 2 hours twice a week, so that helps pass time. The DCW helps with housekeeping and whatever else I need her to do. And we socialize. The Peer is there to support me through this, and encourage me when I feel discouraged. Find things that help you to get through the process, some states have programs like mine does. Some people read, some watch TV, the important thing is to do something to pass the time away. You are thinking less about the w/d symptoms.

[[Mi...]]

Thank you! I agree about tapering slowly and tapering one at a time. My distraction needs to be working because I support myself. It's a stressful job but I have no choice. I am freelance and cannot get disability. Hopefully I can work through all of this!!

[[or...]]

You can certainly do this. One drug at a time. Do the cross, then start your taper. No, it will not be comfortable, but it's doable. I didn't miss a day of my work (free lance writer with deadlines).

 

I agree with BenzoLottie. It's a marathon.

 

Don't worry about DLMT until you get lower on your valium. Cut and hold should be fine -- just keep an eye on the %s.

 

Chin up! You got this.

 

Katz

 

Miss . . . can you pls add your sig -- drugs you are on and dosages. That would be helpful. Thx.