Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Mi...]]

Weird, i had a singature and now i guess it's gone. Yes will update tomorrow.

 

KATZ...i needed to hear this!!! I produce TV commercials and need to go to LA (I live in NY) in 3 weeks and be there on set for 3 days. Full on stress but I gotta do it!!

 

Oh one other question. Should I follow Ashton for the crossover and then the taper down from 15mg Valium until i get low? Is that too fast?

 

TY!

[[mr...]]

Crossing over is totally worth it including a slow taper.  I do a liquid micro taper and barely feel it.

[[Mi...]]

Are you using the liquid Valium from the pharmacy? How are you doing your taper? I cannot believe you Ct'd from 30mg Ambien. Holy moly!!!

[[mr...]]

No water taper.  Watch this: 

 

Benzo Liquid Micro-taper

[[Mi...]]

Thank you. That was really helpful! I have a learning disability (dyscalculia) which makes math REALLY hard for me so I'm not sure how i'm gonna handle all the number stuff but I will cross that bridge when I get to it! I am pleased to see you are doing well on your taper. Did you have issues on the crossover? I used to have NO problems with Valium and now it makes me so dizzy. It's like the Ativan changed how it works in my system!  The night dose is ok but i am worried when i have to switch out the morning dose in a week or so!

[[or...]]

Miss:

 

Should I follow Ashton for the crossover and then the taper down from 15mg Valium until i get low? Is that too fast?

 

No that sounds right. Just keep an eye on the %s as you taper down. You don't want to suddenly find yourself sick because your last cut was, say, 17% and you didn't realize it.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

Ok once i crossover (I'm gonna do that slower than Ashton) I may come to you for some advice on how to start tapering from 15mg as that doesn't exist on schedule 2. I'm sure i can figure it out but my math skills are worse than my insomnia. Truly sh*tty so I may need some advice. Katz you are awesome. Thanks so much for hanging tight with me as I work through this. I am worried about being dizzy again as i change out my morning dose in about a weeks time but I will just work through it and hope I acclimate in due time.

 

TY!

[[or...]]

how to start tapering from 15mg

 

Sure, I'll be happy to try and help. I tapered from 15 mgs. You will acclimate. I changed doses around and things worked out. Just be patient. It's hard, but . . .

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Li...]]

Hello, Missfrida:

 

I see you are receiving excellent input from Oregonkatz and BenzoLottie, both of whom have experience with substitution.  I do not so cannot contribute much to the discussion other than to strongly encourage you to add your drug history to your signature as Oregonkatz requested:

 

Miss . . . can you pls add your sig -- drugs you are on and dosages. That would be helpful. Thx.

 

In scanning through your past posts, I got the sense you may be taking multiple drugs that cause CNS/respiratory depression.  This is important information to include in your signature.  Also, if you have not already done so, I encourage you to use one of the online interactions checkers to check for drug interactions.  Two interactions checkers I use are:

 

Drug Interactions Checker - For Drugs, Food & Alcohol

https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

(includes interactions with food as well as a ‘Professional’ tab for in-depth information about the interaction)

 

Drug Interaction Checker - DrugBank

https://go.drugbank.com/drug-interaction-checker

(includes citations to relevant literature)

 

 

[[Mi...]]

Hi Libertas

I would be interested in this as well. Thank you for sharing. Do you mean depression and breathing depression?

I also agree to come down slowly - I tried to come down in 2s last year from 20mg valium as instructed by the doctor and it has been a challenge since. I feel very stuck and not sure what to do.

MP

[[Mi...]]

Miss:

 

Should I follow Ashton for the crossover and then the taper down from 15mg Valium until i get low? Is that too fast?

 

No that sounds right. Just keep an eye on the %s as you taper down. You don't want to suddenly find yourself sick because your last cut was, say, 17% and you didn't realize it.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

Yes be careful- that is what happened to me. This was before I found bb.

[[or...]]

Miss P:

 

I tried to come down in 2s last year from 20mg valium as instructed by the doctor and it has been a challenge since.

 

Ai yi, Miss P! Shame on that doctor. That is way too big a reduction. Pls check out the schedules that Ashton provides. I found that following them was an excellent guideline. You may have to tweak them a litte, or hold longer, but you can't go too far wrong following them. You will find yourself somewhere in here:

 

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

[[Mi...]]

Miss P:

 

I tried to come down in 2s last year from 20mg valium as instructed by the doctor and it has been a challenge since.

 

Ai yi, Miss P! Shame on that doctor. That is way too big a reduction. Pls check out the schedules that Ashton provides. I found that following them was an excellent guideline. You may have to tweak them a litte, or hold longer, but you can't go too far wrong following them. You will find yourself somewhere in here:

 

https://benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

Thanks katz. Unfortunately I have been struggling this year with a little drop good times but mostly really horrible times. I have hardly made any reductions and I am struggling to stay positive and look forward.

I only wish i had known what i know now. I am frightened that i cannot get off due these bottom out long dips.

Take big care P

[[Be...]]

 

Thanks katz. Unfortunately I have been struggling this year with a little drop good times but mostly really horrible times. I have hardly made any reductions and I am struggling to stay positive and look forward.

I only wish i had known what i know now. I am frightened that i cannot get off due these bottom out long dips.

Take big care P

 

Fear that you can't get off is one of what many call "Benzo Lies." I thought that too, felt like it was hopeless. My future looked bleak, I wondered when it would all end. I thought I could just do 1 mg every two weeks and step off. I learned a lot in here, I've had to make adjustments, take short holds, once did a long hold. Symptoms waxed and waned, some went away completely, only to get replaced by new ones. The only way off is down, there is no other way. It's a symptom-based self-taper. You control how much, how fast, how long - by paying attention to what your body is telling you. For a while, I could only handle .25 cuts mg, now I'm doing .33 mg, but I do plan a short hold over the Christmas holiday. .33 mg is slightly more w/d symptoms, I can do it for now, but I know I won't be able to keep doing that much. Symptoms for me are the worst, halfway through the taper period. I push myself through those worst days, as I know they will subside somewhat. It's what you are comfortable with, if you can only handle small cuts, then do small cuts. Every cut, no matter how small, is progress. You are another step closer. I started changing my thinking, and celebrating the steps I made as I inched lower. A lot of it is your mindset.

[[Mi...]]

I have a question for you BL. I am currently moving my PM dose of Ativan to Dizepam so cutting my .5 Ativan to .25 and adding in 2.5 (approx) Valium. Is it possible that i am feeling some withdrawal from the Ativan? I feel shitty most days. Dizzy and tired and foggy but I havent even started tapering yet!  Thoughts?

[[Mi...]]

Hello, Missfrida:

 

I see you are receiving excellent input from Oregonkatz and BenzoLottie, both of whom have experience with substitution.  I do not so cannot contribute much to the discussion other than to strongly encourage you to add your drug history to your signature as Oregonkatz requested:

 

Miss . . . can you pls add your sig -- drugs you are on and dosages. That would be helpful. Thx.

 

In scanning through your past posts, I got the sense you may be taking multiple drugs that cause CNS/respiratory depression.  This is important information to include in your signature.  Also, if you have not already done so, I encourage you to use one of the online interactions checkers to check for drug interactions.  Two interactions checkers I use are:

 

Drug Interactions Checker - For Drugs, Food & Alcohol

https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

(includes interactions with food as well as a ‘Professional’ tab for in-depth information about the interaction)

 

Drug Interaction Checker - DrugBank

https://go.drugbank.com/drug-interaction-checker

(includes citations to relevant literature)

 

Signature updated!

[[mr...]]

The Valium side effects eventually go away. Your body is adjusting just stick with it.

 

[[Mi...]]

Did V make you dizzy?  I can't tell what i'm reacting to right now as I crossover only the one night dose. Is it the lack of Ativan or the added valium. I get SO dizzy halfway through my day. I also wonder if it's from the Trazadone, which i started last week. It helps so much with sleep (ambien doesn't anymore but i may need to drop it). Or it could be cause i took between 30-40 mg for a time and i am stabilizing at 30mg. Ugh. I know you can't answer. I just wish i knew what was causing it...

[[Be...]]

I have a question for you BL. I am currently moving my PM dose of Ativan to Dizepam so cutting my .5 Ativan to .25 and adding in 2.5 (approx) Valium. Is it possible that i am feeling some withdrawal from the Ativan? I feel shitty most days. Dizzy and tired and foggy but I havent even started tapering yet!  Thoughts?

 

Yes. Ativan is short-acting, it has a short half-life. Crossing over from Ativan or Xanax can be harder due to their rapid response and short half-life. Klonopin is less of a problem because it is longer-acting. So, with Ativan, you can have interdose withdrawal between doses. Valium is both long-acting, and slow-acting. It takes longer to adjust to V, which is why many struggle with crossing over from A or X to V. You can slow down the crossover plan, to give yourself more time to adjust to the V. This is why Ashton has you do it in steps, so you are building up V while reducing A, X or K. If you don't feel ready to make the next step, you can stay where you are for a bit longer. There are people on here who went slower on the crossover. Ashton gives you guides based on what typically worked with her patients, but you can adapt them to your own needs.

[[Mi...]]

I have a question for you BL. I am currently moving my PM dose of Ativan to Dizepam so cutting my .5 Ativan to .25 and adding in 2.5 (approx) Valium. Is it possible that i am feeling some withdrawal from the Ativan? I feel shitty most days. Dizzy and tired and foggy but I havent even started tapering yet!  Thoughts?

 

Yes. Ativan is short-acting, it has a short half-life. Crossing over from Ativan or Xanax can be harder due to their rapid response and short half-life. Klonopin is less of a problem because it is longer-acting. So, with Ativan, you can have interdose withdrawal between doses. Valium is both long-acting, and slow-acting. It takes longer to adjust to V, which is why many struggle with crossing over from A or X to V. You can slow down the crossover plan, to give yourself more time to adjust to the V. This is why Ashton has you do it in steps, so you are building up V while reducing A, X or K. If you don't feel ready to make the next step, you can stay where you are for a bit longer. There are people on here who went slower on the crossover. Ashton gives you guides based on what typically worked with her patients, but you can adapt them to your own needs.

 

Yeah im def taking it slower but i wonder if that dizziness is from less ativan or the intro of Diazepam (which ive used a lot in the past). Technicically im not tapering yet, but i am having serious symptons. Trying to figure out what they are coming from. Did Diazepam ever make you dizzy?  I suspect it's the Ambien but I dont know...

[[or...]]

Miss, I believe I said this earlier:

 

What your body is tellin you is: "Help! I don't have enough Ativan! I feel like crap! And what is this dumb valium anyhow? It's doing nothing for me!" But you have to give the valium a chance. It's a different drug than Ativan. It needs to build up in your system. It lasts longer, is smoother and doesn't give you the instant relief that Ativan does. It will just take awhile for your body to re-engineer things. Eventually it'll be used to the valium and Ativan will be a distant memory.

 

So, uh huh, it's the decrease in Ativan that is making you squirrely. I felt it too. But you just have to tough it out. Or decrease less and do your own math.

 

Sorry you feel so bad.

 

Katz

[[Mi...]]

Miss, I believe I said this earlier:

 

What your body is tellin you is: "Help! I don't have enough Ativan! I feel like crap! And what is this dumb valium anyhow? It's doing nothing for me!" But you have to give the valium a chance. It's a different drug than Ativan. It needs to build up in your system. It lasts longer, is smoother and doesn't give you the instant relief that Ativan does. It will just take awhile for your body to re-engineer things. Eventually it'll be used to the valium and Ativan will be a distant memory.

 

So, uh huh, it's the decrease in Ativan that is making you squirrely. I felt it too. But you just have to tough it out. Or decrease less and do your own math.

 

Sorry you feel so bad.

 

Katz

 

 

Ok. Honestly i would rather it be that than the Ambien. The main thing I feel is just dizziness. I read that the valium should just cover it so you don't feel the atvian loss as much, but i definitely feel it!! I'm at at 12:45am with a racing heart. FUN TIMES!!!

[[mr...]]

You may want to updose a little bit and finish crossing over completely to Valium.  Do not taper during a crossover.

[[Mi...]]

You may want to updose a little bit and finish crossing over completely to Valium.  Do not taper during a crossover.

 

I wouldn't taper on a crossover. I am just following Ashton where you start to cut your dose of Ativan and substitute Valium for a week (in my case two) for each dose until you start to up the valium and cut the ativan for those doses (Aston schedule 8 but for 15mg not 30). What would i updose at this point?

[[Mi...]]

 

Thanks katz. Unfortunately I have been struggling this year with a little drop good times but mostly really horrible times. I have hardly made any reductions and I am struggling to stay positive and look forward.

I only wish i had known what i know now. I am frightened that i cannot get off due these bottom out long dips.

Take big care P

 

Fear that you can't get off is one of what many call "Benzo Lies." I thought that too, felt like it was hopeless. My future looked bleak, I wondered when it would all end. I thought I could just do 1 mg every two weeks and step off. I learned a lot in here, I've had to make adjustments, take short holds, once did a long hold. Symptoms waxed and waned, some went away completely, only to get replaced by new ones. The only way off is down, there is no other way. It's a symptom-based self-taper. You control how much, how fast, how long - by paying attention to what your body is telling you. For a while, I could only handle .25 cuts mg, now I'm doing .33 mg, but I do plan a short hold over the Christmas holiday. .33 mg is slightly more w/d symptoms, I can do it for now, but I know I won't be able to keep doing that much. Symptoms for me are the worst, halfway through the taper period. I push myself through those worst days, as I know they will subside somewhat. It's what you are comfortable with, if you can only handle small cuts, then do small cuts. Every cut, no matter how small, is progress. You are another step closer. I started changing my thinking, and celebrating the steps I made as I inched lower. A lot of it is your mindset.

 

Thank you BL

I am struggling with pretty bad withdrawals despite not really tapering this year. I seem to be getting knocked down by a variety of things - progesterone, stress, tiredness, food, trauma - into my worse withdrawals without even making a taper. I dont really know what to do. I am struggling to lift up here. Thanks MP