Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[mr...]]

Anyone have success crossing from Klonopin to Valium?

[[...]]

Hi, it’s. Bummer not many responses here anymore, I don’t know if this helps but I crossed from Ativan successfully. You can see it in my summary below

Just make sure you do it in steps and equivalent doses per the Ashton manual

I believe Slownsteady helped you on another thread

Mine worked out well and my taper on V has been much smoother

Joeb

[[Ta...]]

How long did it take for Mirtazepine to start working for you?

[[...]]

For sleep it was immediate the first night I took it.

 

[[no...]]

I know we're all different but did anyone find that dosing Diazepam once a day rather than split doses helped?

 

                                                                            Nova  xxx

[[Fr...]]

Looking for support for my friend...

After 2 months in bed-bound acute, she recently updosed from 6.25 back to her start dose of 25 and fears it's not working.  In many ways, it is.  She's sleeping more, eating more, reports lower numbers on fear rating each day (though afternoons are higher than evenings) but fears her dose is too low and can't find a prescriber to go up.  She started updose at 14mg on the 8th and has been on 25 since the 15th.  While she knows nobody knows, she just feels good getting feedback from others going through this, but also fears criticism so has me post for her and filter responses.  Any encouraging words or ideas on how long it takes to stabilize?  Thank you so much.

[[Pa...]]

I don't have experience with Valium but from what I've read it can take up to 3 weeks for full potency go into effect, I fear if she keeps up-dosing before her body realizes the full effect she's going to be over-medicated.

 

It sounds like she's doing relatively well, at least from what you've been able to observe, can you get her to give the up-dose more time, this would solve her problem with trying to find a prescriber to increase her dose. 

[[st...]]

Anyone have success crossing from Klonopin to Valium?

 

I crossed from 0.5mgK to 10mgV over about 2 weeks, introducing 2.5mgV every 5 days while reducing K by 0.125mg, making sure that total equivalent dose remained 10mgV at all times. This was faster than 1wk per step (per Ashton, but her steps are 0.25mgK, mine 0.125mgK) because K was paradoxical for me and very hard to continue. Once at full V dose, I held for 4 weeks to allow for its full accumulation in the body (due to its active metabolites). By the end of those 4 weeks things became a bit more stable where I could start daily dry tapering V. There is a good description of this Phase II accumulation period here: http://www.benzosupport.org/crossover_schedules.htm

 

 

[[mr...]]

Any major problems with the crossover?

 

How are you liking the valium?

[[st...]]

Any major problems with the crossover?

 

How are you liking the valium?

 

To paraphrase, a poison by any other name is still poison… But seriously, V’s longer half-life and less concentrated form is more suited to a smoother taper than K, especially while dry tapering through lower doses. V taper does cause slower symptom uptick (in 7+ days vs K’s 2-3 days). This may sound like it’ll slow one’s reaction time to adjust the taper rate if need be, but I find V’s uptick more gradual and less jarring than K’s so it is more manageable, especially if daily tapering.

 

If one was to do a one day total direct K to V crossover, accumulated K will leave one’s body in about 12 days while it’ll take V up to 30 days to fully accumulate. So doing this in one lump would cause a pronounced drop in accumulated benzo concentration around 2nd week, possibly triggering withdrawals. If, on the other hand, cross is done in gradual steps over time, it’ll stagger, spread and minimize this dip in accumulated concentration.

 

Also for me, I don’t think V covered all of K’s many withdrawal symptoms perfectly one to one, so during and after crossover there are bound to be some lingering symptoms not neutralized. These were from K’s rapid reduction and were not side effects from introducing V. And lastly, V was easier to sleep on, which was welcome during this phase. 

[[Pa...]]

Any major problems with the crossover?

 

How are you liking the valium?

 

To paraphrase, a poison by any other name is still poison… But seriously, V’s longer half-life and less concentrated form is more suited to a smoother taper than K, especially while dry tapering through lower doses. V taper does cause slower symptom uptick (in 7+ days vs K’s 2-3 days). This may sound like it’ll slow one’s reaction time to adjust the taper rate if need be, but I find V’s uptick more gradual and less jarring than K’s so it is more manageable, especially if daily tapering.

 

If one was to do a one day total direct K to V crossover, accumulated K will leave one’s body in about 12 days while it’ll take V up to 30 days to fully accumulate. So doing this in one lump would cause a pronounced drop in accumulated benzo concentration around 2nd week, possibly triggering withdrawals. If, on the other hand, cross is done in gradual steps over time, it’ll stagger, spread and minimize this dip in accumulated concentration.

 

Also for me, I don’t think V covered all of K’s many withdrawal symptoms perfectly one to one, so during and after crossover there are bound to be some lingering symptoms not neutralized. These were from K’s rapid reduction and were not side effects from introducing V. And lastly, V was easier to sleep on, which was welcome during this phase.

 

Thank you for giving your perspective on this process, I learned a lot from your post. 

[[mr...]]

Stayhill?

 

Can you give me an example of your crossovers to V schedule?

 

I’m currently on .5 mg of Klonopin in the morning and .5 mg of Klonopin at night.

 

 

[[st...]]

Stayhill?

 

Can you give me an example of your crossovers to V schedule?

 

I’m currently on .5 mg of Klonopin in the morning and .5 mg of Klonopin at night.

 

Sure, before my crossover I was 0.25 mg of K in the morning and 0.25 mg of K at night.

 

At start = AM 0.25mg K + PM 0.25mg K

 

5 Days = AM 0.25mg K + PM 0.125mg K, PM 2.5mg V

 

5 Days = AM 0.25mg K + PM 5mg V

 

5 Days = AM 0.125mg K, AM 2.5mg V + PM 5mg V

 

At end = AM 5mg V + PM 5mg V

 

The Ashton Manual has a 1.5mg K example, which is basically similar except 7 days per stage and replacing 0.25mg K with 5mg V each week, so for 1mg K, it might look like this:

 

At start = AM 0.5mg K + PM 0.5mg K

 

7 Days = AM 0.5mg K + PM 0.25mg K, PM 5mg V

 

7 Days = AM 0.5mg K + PM 10mg V

 

7 Days = AM 0.25mg K, AM 5mg V + PM 10mg V

 

At end = AM 10mg V + PM 10mg V

[[mr...]]

Thank you.  Was your crossover smooth meaning you could still enjoy life,  or bad symptoms?

[[mr...]]

I am just nervous about mixing benzos.

 

I wonder if I can just switch to three times a day and then replace each one separately each week. 

 

 

 

[[mr...]]

Staystill,

 

Would something like this work?

 

 

At start

AM 0.5mg K

PM 0.5mg K

 

7 Days

AM 0.25mg K

MID 0.25mg K

PM 5mg V

 

7 Days

AM 0.25mg K

MID 5mg V

PM 10mg V

 

7 Days

AM 5mg V

MID  5mg V

PM 10mg V

 

At end

AM 10mg V

PM 10mg V

[[st...]]

Staystill,

 

Would something like this work?

 

 

At start

AM 0.5mg K

PM 0.5mg K

 

7 Days

AM 0.25mg K

MID 0.25mg K

PM 5mg V

 

7 Days

AM 0.25mg K

MID 5mg V

PM 10mg V

 

7 Days

AM 5mg V

MID  5mg V

PM 10mg V

 

At end

AM 10mg V

PM 10mg V

 

Looks like that first week is shortchanged 0.25mg K. An example using 3 doses might look like this:

 

At start

AM 0.5mg K

PM 0.5mg K

 

7 Days

AM 0.5mg K

MID 0.25mg K

PM 5mg V

 

7 Days

AM 0.25mg K

MID 0.25mg K

PM 10mg V

 

7 Days

AM 5mg V

MID 0.25mg K

PM 10mg V

 

7 Days

AM 5mg V

MID  5mg V

PM 10mg V

 

At end

AM 10mg V

PM 10mg V

[[mr...]]

Thank you

[[st...]]

Thank you.  Was your crossover smooth meaning you could still enjoy life,  or bad symptoms?

 

Well, right before crossing my symptoms were not stable on K to begin with, so the cross was more of the same. But after crossing, they did slowly calm a bit during 4 weeks of holding V steady.

[[mr...]]

I wonder if I should do a fast 5 day change instead of 7 just like you did.  Not sure though.

[[Pa...]]

I am just nervous about mixing benzos.

 

I wonder if I can just switch to three times a day and then replace each one separately each week.

 

You are mixing benzo's but even though they have different methods of action, they're in the same drug class and aren't contraindicated.  This process has been used thousands of times and you're not increasing your dose so there is no danger of over-medicating.  Being nervous about this will almost guarantee you'll have increased symptoms, I believe stress to be a huge contributor to worse symptoms.  Trust the process and those who have gone before you.

[[st...]]

I wonder if I should do a fast 5 day change instead of 7 just like you did.  Not sure though.

 

I was only forced to shorten it to 5 days because after an updose, each dose of K began causing severe paradoxical symptoms. My brain did not like the quick changes or fluctuations. The longer each step could have lasted and the smaller the change could have been, the calmer would my brain's response be and lesser the symptoms.

[[Ta...]]

Last nite was THE WORST NIGHT EVER!!! PLEASE HELP!!!! Horrible PANIC & EXTREME PAIN whole body!! I have been trying to stabelize back on to 2mg. I thought I had! On 12/8  I had major symptoms from trying to slowly transition to brand Valium - so I took a tiny bit of the brand, and a little extra generic to try and relieve symptoms - which didn't help at all!  That was 14 days ago. Could this be from that??? I am very new to this and it seems I have developed this SUPER sensitivity TO EVERYTHING! Pamster wrote that it can take 3 weeks for valium to exit the body. Could this be from the 12/8 addition/change? I have been having some better days recently. The holiday frenzy and most people irritate me, and there's extra stress with my daughter in Wy and a Benzo victim friend who is suffering greatly. And it's my birthday. PLEASE write, I AM DESPERATELY MISERABLE! Everything triggers me! Eileen

[[Pa...]]

Last nite was THE WORST NIGHT EVER!!! PLEASE HELP!!!! Horrible PANIC & EXTREME PAIN whole body!! I have been trying to stabelize back on to 2mg. I thought I had! On 12/8  I had major symptoms from trying to slowly transition to brand Valium - so I took a tiny bit of the brand, and a little extra generic to try and relieve symptoms - which didn't help at all!  That was 14 days ago. Could this be from that??? I am very new to this and it seems I have developed this SUPER sensitivity TO EVERYTHING! Pamster wrote that it can take 3 weeks for valium to exit the body. Could this be from the 12/8 addition/change? I have been having some better days recently. The holiday frenzy and most people irritate me, and there's extra stress with my daughter in Wy and a Benzo victim friend who is suffering greatly. And it's my birthday. PLEASE write, I AM DESPERATELY MISERABLE! Everything triggers me! Eileen

 

Its so difficult to know what is causing what, is it the new brand, the stress and worry, the sensitivity?  I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, what's going on with your daughter?

[[Ta...]]

Thanks for responding, Pamster. I have had a fever with vomiting and diarrhea for 2 days. Strangely, after a huge bout of vomiting, I felt better emotionally. You seem so calm, which is good for those of us who are suffering. I picked up my valium prescription yesterday, and now I'm back to being in pain from head to toe. I'm alone and it makes the symptoms worse. My daughter moved to Wyoming, and things are not working out as she hoped, so I'm getting calls in the middle of the night with her sobbing. I can't help her, so I'm turning the phone off at night. I don't know how anyone survives this process. This is the most horrible thing that's ever happened to me. I have been hoping to stabelize so that I can go down in dose, but I've made a lot of mistakes. My psychiatrist says that what's happening to me is "extremely rare," but there seem to be a lot of people on BB who are suffering. I feel so lost. - Eileen