Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[...]]

Hey guys, hope you're all doing well. I have some questions regarding cross-over from lorazepam to diazepam.

 

Please take a quick look at my signature, the part when I started using lorazepam, so you get the context:

 

A few days ago I was at 0.5mg lorazepam + 2mg diazepam. Switched half of lorazepam dose to diazepam so currently I'm at 0.25mg lorazepam + 4mg diazepam. And I feel like diazepam is building up and I feel more sedated than when I was using 0.5 + 2  (Which is expected because of longer half life). In other words it feels like a slight updose.

 

Soon I'll be crossing the last 0.25mg lorazepam to diazepam. I don't do it in the strict conversion dosage like Ashton says. Ashton says that 0.25 lorazepam = 2.5 diazepam. I do 0.25 = 2, and thus far didn't have any major problems.

 

So my question is this: since diazepam stays in the body for a longer time, and I feel the effects stronger than when I was taking just lorazepam, how do I switch the last 0.25mg to diazepam? I feel if I take 6 mg diazepam in total that it will be a significant updose. Maybe I can switch the last 0.25mg to 1.5mg diazepam and see how it goes from there?

 

Do you see my concern? Is it possible I'm updosing at this point, because diazepam buildup?

Hi www, Hi www to answer your question the Ashton conversion is the conservative safe bet. There have been postings I’ve seen similar to yours and buddies have gone less and been ok. Many bbs cross at a little less but it is a gamble. It’s hard to say for sure if the sedation is due to an updose since Valium for many bbs including myself was very sedating at first but then gradually got better. It would be helpful to see your crossover schedule to better understand where you are. I crossed from .375 Ativan to 3.5 V a little less than Ashton but it worked fine for me. Valium takes a while to build up in your system so you want to ensure you are covered. But we are all different. If you don’t take enough Valium to cover the .25 Ativan you may experience wd from the Ativan and take longer to stabilize. Sorry if it’s not the answer you wanted but it’s all I have to give. If it turns out to be an updose at least it will give your CNS a break to stabilize.

[[...]]

Hello 👋🏼

I’ve been fairly stabilized on liquid Valium for the past month or so.

I was holding there to try to get off of last bit of Zoloft before taking down Valium. I had tapered Zoloft down to 3mg, then about 2, then crumbs. I thought it was slowly enough (I’ve been at it 1.5 years). I ended up going back up to 5mg after intolerable withdrawal symptoms.

 

So I will continue with my small Zoloft dose, I guess, and once stabilized I’ll start Valium taper.

 

I was on clonazepam for a long time and crossed over to liquid V a few months ago.

I was incredibly sensitive to changes in clonaz dose. I was micro tapering at ~2% per month 😬

 

Where do I start with tapering liquid Valium?

I am on 3mg (3ml) once a day.

Any words of wisdom?

Hi Treelover, you will find Valium much less painful to taper. I crossed over from Ativan a few months ago to 3.5v so I’m trying to figure out a game plan also. I’m down to 3mg also but plan a transition to liquid in a week or so. Are you using the pharmacy liquid? Or making your own.

Valium has a long half life so it’s it a gradual decline in blood serum levels which is good but the downside is that symptoms can creep up on you you go too fast with your cuts getting ahead of the drop in serum levels. Some bbs recommend small weekly reductions no more than 5-10% of your remaining dose every 2-4 weeks. There are many options but slow and conservative at first to get a feel for how your body responds and keeping a daily log of your symptoms as a guide. Let me know how what you decided, I’m learning Valium also.

[[mr...]]

I am on .75mg of Klonopin.  Next Monday I am switching to Valium. My psychiatrist told me to just use Gabapentin until the Valium fully kicks in.  Been on Klonopin daily for about 4 weeks.

[[Ni...]]

Anyone suffering from major memory loss both short and long term after tapering for almost 2 years?

[[ca...]]

hey guys,

 

i'm at 15mg a day. i've been here a little over a month, down from 17.5 (for about 2 weeks), which was down from 20mg for about 2 years. i've stabilized. i have about 80 10mg tablets right now and i don't think i will be able to get more this time. i have never had a prescription. i have an appointment with my primary doc next week, where i am planning to come clean and hope she will be willing to help me taper. i have a counselor who specializes in benzo withdrawal on my side.

 

i'm wondering if anyone has advice on what to say to my doctor? i plan to bring in parts of the ashton manual and definitely bring up my counselor, but beyond that, i'm really not sure. this will be my third time seeing this doctor, so we don't have a super strong relationship. she knows i quit drinking almost 2 years ago and she knows i tapered myself off lexapro over 3 months this spring.

 

so... yeah. what do i say, and what are my chances?

 

p.s. cutting to 12.5 immediately, preparing for the worst.

 

Hi.  Welcome to our group.

 

You are in the right place.  I hope your doctor is willing to work with you and Pamster has given you a great link.  If for some reason your doctor isn’t, there are options. 

 

Your cut you are planning to do is very large at over 28% and it is recommended to do 5 to 10% cuts every 2 weeks if tolerated in the community.  I just wanted to share that with you.  You don’t want to find yourself in trouble and discouraged from getting off of the benzo’s. 

 

Marie

 

hi marie,

 

i appreciate your reply and pamster's reply as well. i'm wondering where you got 28%? i'm at 15mg now, so going down to 12.5mg would be 17% cut, right? admittedly this is still higher than i'd like, but with uncertainty regarding supply, i can't afford to do a method that involves "tossing" any of the drug (shaving pills, DLMT), and in my mind it seems good to try to get lower while i can. today is my first day at 12.5. i'm expecting s/x in about a week, as this has been the case with my last two cuts. i'll update my signature as well to make it clearer.

 

you mention other options... what are my other options?

 

Hi..OMG…Yes…You are right.  I put the wrong figure in.  Sorry :tickedoff:  My calculation came back at 16.67%  Still kind of a high cut, but if you can handle it, try it.  Just understand that the symptoms can start to come on later and kind of like a snowball effect after a while and then thats when the trouble can happen.  However, not everyone ends up in trouble.  So I don’t want to scare you.  Some people don’t seem to have as much trouble as other’s coming off of benzo’s. 

 

As far as “options”, there are other doctor’s, nurse practitioners, psychiatrist, pain management clinic’s, and some of the psychiatrist are even online in benzo weaning (not sure if your insurance will cover it, or even if they take Insurance) and you have enough pill’s and time to call around too.  It’s important to find someone who will work with you on a “symptom based” taper and not try and rush you off.  Hoping your doctor is super compassionate and will be open and work with you 

 

Marie

 

 

hello everyone.

 

i spoke with my doctor today. she is not willing to help me taper, and recommended that i detox, as did the resident therapist at the office. the therapist went so far as to say that people who do the slow taper "are maybe not quite ready to actually quit yet" and that the primary focus should be 'getting the drug out of my body." the office "was not equipped to work with addiction." i'm not addicted, i'm physically dependent.

 

feeling very defeated, i left with recommendations for addiction specialists, who i'm sure will repeat the same information given to me at my doctor's office. is there anybody here who's had success in finding a doctor to help taper when they weren't prescribed?

 

meanwhile my cut to 12.5 has been rough, not impossible to manage but there are significant waves of depression and hopelessness that are starting to scare me. i'm so tired of having to do this alone, and i just can't imagine that i will find a doctor willing to help me... they just tell me that i'm an addict and that i need to get help at a treatment center.

[[mr...]]

I was on valium nightly for sleep starting in 2012.  I slowly increased to 10mg of Valium per night to early 2021.  I started taking 5mg ambien some nights and Valium some other nights. I went through something in Sept 2021 and only started to use Ambien for sleep. I ended up taking up to 30mg of Ambien per night due to increased wakings and had severe interdose withdrawals everyday.

 

I ended up in a behavioral hospital for 10 days in Nov 2021 and the put me on 1mg Klonopin and Gabapentin and Zoloft.

 

I have been taking .25mg Klonopin in the morning and .50mg Klonopin at bed going on 4 weeks soon.

 

Can I cross back over to Valium with no issues?

 

Any advice would help.

 

 

[[Ai...]]

So my 3.5 mg daily of Clonazepam seemed to be losing some efficacy about a month ago (I’ve been on it for about six 1/2 years, so I had my psychiatrist switch me to Diazepam 60 mg (close to the Ashton Manuel equivalence. Everything worked great for about 8-10 days and then the quick switch (no taper) caught up with me and I started over the last 8-9 days reducing my Diazepam to 30-40 mg and started to reintroduce the Clonazepam. After a couple days I was feeling much better, so I told my doc and he agreed to switch me back to the 3.5 mg of Clonazepam.

I still have 16 10mg pills of Diazepam. Should I just stop taking it and go back on my full dose of Clonazepam or do I need to take a little Valium (not sure how much or for how long) to avoid bad withdrawals?? Please Help.

 

[[Ta...]]

Hello Everyone!

 

Since it's the Holiday season, and dark, cold and dreary in many places, I was wondering what practical things help you? I have been taking a mindfulness meditation class, and I find that practicing deep breathing with a slower exhale seems to have a calming effect on me. I also read that meditation and deep breathing can actually shrink our amygdalas. And we could all do with a little amygdala shrinking!

 

Since caffeine is irritating to us in this struggle, I've been trying some fresh brewed herbal teas. I like lemon/hibiscus with stevia. It has a lovely fragrance, and I take time to savor it's deliciousness.

 

So what about you...what do you find comforting and soothing? What tools do you have in your Benzo battle arsenal?

 

Wishing you all wellness and light,

Eileen

 

[Guest [bl...]]

Hello - Did I Blow it?

 

I tapered Valium for a year and got down to 0.25, that was two years ago. Because I am a giant baby I just stayed on the 0.25, I had to work to support my family, my dad died etc etc. fast forward to this week and I think I maybe hit tolerance or my compounding pharmacy messed up and I suddenly feel like I’m dying. Rapid heart rate, intrusive thoughts, no sleep, basically it feels like when I did a cold Turkey. So two nights ago  it took 3mgs in desperate bid to get my heart rate down (it’s been like a week at over 100 bpm’s allll day long). Have I entirely messed everythibg up? I never updosed once in the entire taper process ever so im worried this morning and sure enough the heart rate is back up and pounding. I saw my doctor yesterday who sent me to the ER where I was diagnosed with mild pericarditis, this explains the heart but not the mental symptoms. Again last night I took 2.5 mgs, and slept quite well. I feel rough this morning and am looking for guidance on how to continue here. Do I stay at this dose now or keep reducing? I’d like to take 2mgs tonight and see how that goes? Please any help so so welcome.

[[Pa...]]

 

 

 

hello everyone.

 

i spoke with my doctor today. she is not willing to help me taper, and recommended that i detox, as did the resident therapist at the office. the therapist went so far as to say that people who do the slow taper "are maybe not quite ready to actually quit yet" and that the primary focus should be 'getting the drug out of my body." the office "was not equipped to work with addiction." i'm not addicted, i'm physically dependent.

 

feeling very defeated, i left with recommendations for addiction specialists, who i'm sure will repeat the same information given to me at my doctor's office. is there anybody here who's had success in finding a doctor to help taper when they weren't prescribed?

 

meanwhile my cut to 12.5 has been rough, not impossible to manage but there are significant waves of depression and hopelessness that are starting to scare me. i'm so tired of having to do this alone, and i just can't imagine that i will find a doctor willing to help me... they just tell me that i'm an addict and that i need to get help at a treatment center.

 

Hi canaanstongue01,

 

Were you able to find a doctor to help you taper, please let us know if we can help.  I'm sorry you're being labeled an addict, we know different. 

[[Pa...]]

So my 3.5 mg daily of Clonazepam seemed to be losing some efficacy about a month ago (I’ve been on it for about six 1/2 years, so I had my psychiatrist switch me to Diazepam 60 mg (close to the Ashton Manuel equivalence. Everything worked great for about 8-10 days and then the quick switch (no taper) caught up with me and I started over the last 8-9 days reducing my Diazepam to 30-40 mg and started to reintroduce the Clonazepam. After a couple days I was feeling much better, so I told my doc and he agreed to switch me back to the 3.5 mg of Clonazepam.

I still have 16 10mg pills of Diazepam. Should I just stop taking it and go back on my full dose of Clonazepam or do I need to take a little Valium (not sure how much or for how long) to avoid bad withdrawals?? Please Help.

 

I don't have personal experience but because Clonazepam builds up in the body faster than Diazepam I believe you can reintroduce it quicker.  I'd probably pay attention very close attention to your symptoms so you don't end up overmedicating by taking too much.  It might not be necessary to take the extra Diazepam.

 

A word of caution, changing medications like this is hard on your body, I hope once crossed over you'll stay at this dose for a little while until you can stabilize. 

 

 

[[ca...]]

pamster,

 

so far no luck, i have a therapist who is trying to help me find someone but everywhere i call wants to do rapid detox, it’s just very difficult when you’re not coming in with a prescription. i guess i understand the hesitation, as i’m sure many doctors have been taken advantage of by “drug seekers”… but it sucks to explain the work i’ve already done on my own with tapering, and point to my being off alcohol for nearly two years, tapering lexapro, working with a therapist, telling my family about my taper etc, only to have doctors assume i am just looking for someone who’ll give me pills i can abuse. it feels pretty hopeless, to be frank.

[[Pa...]]

I'm sorry you've had to deal with those who have no understanding of our situation, I believe dependence and addiction are two different things.  If you'll take a look at this website, it offers help explaining our situation to our families as well as our prescribers, I hope it can help.  https://benzoreform.org/#

 

 

[[ca...]]

unfortunately i went in basically having those very talking points memorized. my family does not fully understand but have at least decided to trust that i’m not insane, that the symptoms are real and are the result of valium withdrawals, etc. i’m lucky that way at least.

 

the symptom i struggle with most on a daily basis is depression. i know logically from reading the stories of others that things do eventually get better, but it is so hard for me to get there when i’m in a wave, especially one that’s lasted a week or longer. i wish i could slow my taper down, but absent a prescription or other reliable source, it feels like i have to try my best to lower my dosage… if i have to c/t, i want to jump from as low a dose as possible.

 

sorry that these thoughts are probably jumbled, it is difficult to organize my thoughts… something else that often gets me down, as i used to take pride in my ability to write cohesive and coherent sentences.

[[Pa...]]

You're doing very well expressing yourself, I can see the benzo is doing it normal job of making you doubt yourself and making you feel all is lost, I hate the lies it tells us, have you seen this thread?  Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted  I hope it will let you know you're not alone.

 

Can we help you work up a rapid taper plan to at least get you where you hope to be before you have to jump?

[[ca...]]

i have that one bookmarked for sure. my taper plan is just to reduce by 2.5 every two weeks until i run out. i only have access to 10mg tablets, can’t use a method that wastes any drug, and, like i stated, need to come down as quickly as possible while hopefully remaining functional enough to keep my job.

[[Pa...]]

I was able to work full time for all except the first three weeks of my cold turkey and was so grateful I could because the distraction it provided helped me get through the days.  I can't imagine being so sick I couldn't work leaving me with only my symptoms to think about every second of every day.  I hope you can remain functional and employed.

[[ca...]]

it’s encouraging to know you were able to work. my job is stressful but i think ultimately it’s good for me to have the distraction too.

[[Ni...]]

Anyone suffering from major memory loss both short and long term after tapering for almost 2 years?

Anyone?

[[Ta...]]

I have only been tapering for about a year, but I can't seem to remember anything. But, I think it's the valium, it seems like the more I eliminate from my system, the more I remember.

Eileen

[[ca...]]

i've only been tapering a couple of months and i'm definitely noticing memory issues. i forget things so much more than i did when i was taking my normal dose.

 

having a very dark day today, just really struggling at 12.5. i'm supposed to see a new psych friday who specializes in getting people off of psychotropic meds. my therapist found him. he's based in another state and out of network, so i'm not sure how or if it's all going to work out, but hey, it's something...

 

my symptoms today are extreme depression, thinking all kinds of negative things about myself and the reasons i'm here now, being obsessive about whether or not i should move back in with my parents, feeling like i will never amount to anything in life... it's been a good time

[[Ta...]]

Try not to listen to what the poison is trying to tell you. This stuff is evil! It's angry because you are taking back control of your brain and your life! Don't listen to Valium's lies. You will make it through! Eileen

[[Ta...]]

I had the worst nite of all last nite. I have been trying to stableize but I have gotten almost NO sleep. Someone suggested that I try Hydroxyzine. I took 25 mg Tues nite, and slept all nite. Last nite took 25mg at 9pm, nothing! Took another 25mg at 1am, NO sleep, just RACING HEART, MONSTER HEADACHE, HIVES WITH BURNING ITCHING. SKIN, AND MAJOR PANIC.I am a pillar of misery. I can't go on like this! I paced the floor from 9pm to 6am. Someone please help! What can I do?!?! Eileen

[[ca...]]

Eileen, so sorry to hear you're having so much trouble sleeping. I've also found hyrdroxyzine to be a very mixed bag. I wish there was more I could suggest to be helpful, but, for me at least, the insomnia has just become something I have to accept and deal with as best I can. I totally know that's easier said than done. My therapist tells me its best to fight the urge to get up, and to stay in bed and off of my phone during the hours I should be sleeping, whether I'm actually sleeping or not.

 

I came on here to make a celebratory post: I finally found a benzo-wise psychiatrist, who's willing to work with me to taper. It is such a relief to have a legitimate prescriber on my side, and I'm looking forward to being able to make smaller cuts going forward.

[[Ta...]]

What wonderful news! Many of us have been really worried about you. Hopefully you will be able to navigate this difficult process now with all the help, guidance, and support that you need. Merry Christmas to you!