Updosing Support Group

[[Lo...]]

How about going to 2.75mg as a compromise and then stay there for a while.....?

[Guest [Fu...]]

Could be worth a shot but it's tough to cut my 1 mg tabs into 1/4th's.

[Guest [Fu...]]

I decided to go to 2.5 and just hold there for a little while. That was my original dose and I've only been on 3.0 for four days so I hope that won't create too many difficulties. If I can't stabilize then I'll just have to bite the bullet and taper through it but it would be great to be able to make things at least a bit more bearable.

[[Ca...]]

Hey There FuzzyD, I think you are about due a nice break....

Things are just starting to settle for me a fraction and its very positive, I was getting worried... am so glad I can hold at 2v now, for as long as i continue to improve...

Glad you found a dose to return to, and am wishing you the very best from there...

 

 

[[Th...]]

Thanks for starting this group! I've been just lingering and reading and it's been comforting. For the second week now I have taken large rescue doses... I know it's different than up dosing but at this point I wonder if I should because this last cut has been murder. I know it's because it's a 6.66% cut  but the internal vibrations have kicked in big time and I'm craving alcohol big time. It's such a tough choice.

[[Ca...]]

Hey third, Hang in there, you got this... I would aim for stability as best as possible, before worrying about any cuts for a while... Try to get as comfortable as you can, then go from there...

 

But mostly, Just HI, and wishing you strength...

[[Th...]]

Hey third, Hang in there, you got this... I would aim for stability as best as possible, before worrying about any cuts for a while... Try to get as comfortable as you can, then go from there...

 

But mostly, Just HI, and wishing you strength...

 

You are awesome! I'm so astounded at the strength I see on these boards. People struggling themselves but offering positive support. I'm just going to have to face the fact I'm going to have to be a long holder.

[[Ca...]]

Hey third, Hang in there, you got this... I would aim for stability as best as possible, before worrying about any cuts for a while... Try to get as comfortable as you can, then go from there...

 

But mostly, Just HI, and wishing you strength...

 

You are awesome! I'm so astounded at the strength I see on these boards. People struggling themselves but offering positive support. I'm just going to have to face the fact I'm going to have to be a long holder.

Welcome aboard.... -You will do us proud...!!!

[[no...]]

Hey third, Hang in there, you got this... I would aim for stability as best as possible, before worrying about any cuts for a while... Try to get as comfortable as you can, then go from there...

 

But mostly, Just HI, and wishing you strength...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[[Da...]]

Hey guys, I could use some advice.

 

I've been so screwed up again.

 

Ok so last week I started out at .876mg of Klonopin

I cut .006mg per day doing a daily liquid microtaper. 

Somehow I got behind a day and wasn't where I thought I was supposed to be on Saturday so I cut double on Saturday. I continued with my taper Sunday and Monday thinking it was no big deal.

 

Monday I started having bad sxs again so I went up a little bit but the sxs continued and worsened throughout the week. So I updosed back to .876mg today.

 

Is this going to set me back as bad as a dry cut and hold mishap?

[[Ca...]]

I couldnt suggest anything new...

cant see why liquid should be different to dry, for most people...

You have gone back to where you were last stable, holding would be my next step, and probably for months not weeks... -considering...

But hey, thats just me... -If something isnt working, I try something else...

 

 

[[no...]]

author=Dad24boys link=topic=174254.msg2338531#msg2338531 date=1488575523]

Hey guys, I could use some advice.

 

I've been so screwed up again.

 

Ok so last week I started out at .876mg of Klonopin

I cut .006mg per day doing a daily liquid microtaper. 

Somehow I got behind a day and wasn't where I thought I was supposed to be on Saturday so I cut double on Saturday. I continued with my taper Sunday and Monday thinking it was no big deal.

 

Monday I started having bad sxs again so I went up a little bit but the sxs continued and worsened throughout the week. So I updosed back to .876mg today.

 

Is this going to set me back as bad as a dry cut and hold mishap?

 

Hi D24B  , If I were you I would hold the updose for at least a few weeks, if you read this thread from the start it makes it clear it can take weeks to months for most people to stablise and also a lot of people do too small an updose for it to be of any help. Any thing from 1mg upwards would be consider a decent strating point updose wise, and others have to updose futher again  2mg upwards, but utimately the decison as to how much to updose is in your hands. I also think it would  definatly be useful for you to read from the beggining of the thread again to read what others  that have updosed  said about it take time for updosing to work. Also its common for people to find chnaging from pills to liquid to hit harder. below is a quote from someone else that uodsoed in the past, and also points out that it takes  time and getting worse for a while doesn't mean the updos eisn't working it s just your CNS respoding to th e chnges wheter you go up or down and its better to sit at one dose for a while rather than go up an down in a short time period.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

When I updosed from 11mg to 20 mg in late February this year, I was already experiencing withdrawal insomnia. After the updose my symptoms got progressively worse. My insomnia worsened, my anxiety worsened and I had a whole new set of symptoms such as depression, ruminating thoughts ('I'm never going to get better'), dry mouth at night, night sweats, waking with anxiety and hot flushes.

 

This went on for 2 weeks and got progressively worse. Thinking that my body could not cope with such a high dose, I dropped to 19mg for a week. If I thought I had troubles before, well this was arguably the worst week of my life! The drop made things even worse. Finally on the 18th March I made a decision to stay put on 20mg and have been doing so ever since. Slowly my symptoms subsided. After 7.5 weeks on 20mg, I'm still not happy with my sleep but it is better. All other symptoms are gone. So the point I'm making is:

 

1) Any change in dosage, whether you go up or down, may cause unwanted symptoms. This is because any change in dosage when you have a destabilized CNS is going to add to that destabilization.

 

2) If you are attempting to stabilize on one specific dose for any given period of time and you choose to alter that dose (up or down), this has a tendency to 'reset the clock' in your nervous system so that any gains you may have made with regard to withdrawal symptoms improving or subsiding before you changed the dose are kind of 'wiped out' and you have to start all over again (at least this happened with me)

 

3) It can take a long (LONG) time to stabilize so you have to be patient. Some people stabilize in a week. For other is can take months. If your symptoms aren't improving or are getting worse after an updose, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need drop your dosage; in some cases it certainly does, but in mine lowering the dose made things worse. Having said that, if you're experiencing serious issues such as elevated blood pressure and headaches you do have to be careful and discern between a serious adverse reaction and plain old garden variety withdrawal symptoms. Hope this information helps in some way:) [/qoute]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[no...]]

Also I myselt have got worsening of some symptoms and new ones that have cropped up but thats what happened in the past when I updose as I exsplained in this extract from my progress log below.

 

And have also updose again on 22 feburay by 1/2mg and am rough right now but will be staying at this dose now until it works I have learned to let go of exspectations, it will be what it will be until its soemthing else as far as symptoms go day to day or even minute to miute or time limits regarding stability as it will happnens when it happens 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=175402.msg2335921#new

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

I remembered the other day that when I up- dosed in the past I developed symptoms I didn’t have prior to up dosing. And the symptoms that caused me to up -dose were just as bad took some time to actually stabilise (months).

But they then all went away, old symptoms and new symptoms except for one. Anxiety on waking but it improved immensely, in that it passed really quickly not hung around for hours or got worse.

I was even drinking coffee again first thing in the morning with no problem and smoking after stopping for a few months, but gave up smoking again after 3 days.  It worked that well that I was able to go to a yoga and meditation retreat and have my first holiday in year’s in Cyprus.

 

Then carry on tapering at my own pace with the odd passing symptom that never interfered with me living a fully enjoyable life. My problems started when I read the Ashton manual and thought I was going too slow and that I would still be okay doing it her way WRONG!!!

 

It messed, me up big time instead of carrying on doing a symptom based taper with smaller cuts and longer holds, I sped up cut more, held less time, and crashed and burned horribly. That as two years ago and instead of doing what I would normally had done, holding or going back to the last dose and holding depending on the severity of the symptoms.

 

 

 

[[st...]]

Dry cutting V from 30mg down to 11.8mg using labratory grade scales and holding when necessary. I've had some complications due to a concussion in  July and my withdrawal symptoms are increasing even with a 2 week hold. What's the overall consensus when updosing? I want it to be enough to shut down these symptoms but then afraid it wont be big enough to help and then I'll only have to come back down anyway. Would holding eventually even out symptoms? I am getting shocks of acute like symptoms that are increasingly hard to handle.

[[Ca...]]

I think it would be important to have a much clearer picture of your taper history, especially the last 6 months... A rough guess, is too bigger/fast cuts may need an updose, with a hold... -or if sx have just crept up slowly, perhaps just the hold... But this is not considering any complications from a concussion or head trauma...

 

[[st...]]

After a cold turkey and failed taper and kindling I reinstated at 30mg Valium and managed to taper that down relatively smoothly to 20mg. This time last year I began daily micro cutting at 1.2mg per month still experiencing symptoms but tolerable. At the time of concussion I had tapered down to 14.8mg and held for 2 months before resuming  the taper at .9mg a month roughly around September. Since then there has been a lot of stopping and starting. I'm not sure how much is a reasonable updose given my tolerance. The symptoms have been creeping up for a while which worries me that if I updose it wont relieve symptoms or potentially leave me in a situation where I have to experience this again verses holding to see if things settle.

[[Ca...]]

Ok, I remember now, Thanks... I dont think i can add much to what is being said on the micro tapering forum... Just, its about finding that medicine and healing balance, plus time...

A very simplistic view, in your case would be either updose to find that last stable place (and hope it works), or hold and wait for stability to come to you (as best it will)...

I also have found that in my particular situation, things that I did 3months ago still have an effect at present... -kinda a one last slap goodbye thing...  (but they were big cuts)

Sorry I couldnt add more... -sometimes its just a leap or step of faith, either way...

Best wishes...

 

 

[[Da...]]

I have another question that I'm hoping you guys can answer.

 

I updosed my liquid K 4 days ago but this nausea is kicking my butt. Is it too late to "front load" the updose by doing like 1.5mg tomorrow, 1.25 the next, 1mg the next and .875 the next?

 

Would that just cause more confusion or maybe kick some of these sxs quicker?

[Guest [Fu...]]

Man, even though I was going through Hell at 1.5 I wish I had just held or pushed through it because updosing to 2 and holding and then 2.5 has not done anything to help. I actually feel worse now than even during my taper. This whole process has me feeling so hopeless. It's insane how EVERYTHING is so difficult and such a guessing game. I really hoped updosing would bring things back to being tolerable but I honestly feel like I'm in acute right now and I don't have a choice now but to taper and the only method of tapering I know is liquid which rocks me too! I spent 5 days at 3.0 because I was told it wouldn't be long enough to build a tolerance to that but if did build a tolerance and am feeling a .5 cut then I totally screwed myself especially because I have a prescriber now who is COMPLETELY ignorant about benzos. Maybe holding will help, I'm sure all these changes in dosage has done a number on my already ravaged CNS I just want some sort of relief because this is too much to take. Sorry for the rant, just feeling very scared and lost.

[[Lo...]]

Sorry to hear that, FuzzyDunlop. Can you find any prescriber that will let you stay where you are for now, dosage-wise. Basically tell them that your anxiety is unbearable and that you need to stabilize at where you are first due to all the stress in your life? A lot of doctors are aware of the dangers and some may be happy to keep you at the dose you're at. The psychiatrist I am seeing said that he has patients on 6mg-7mg Klonopin/day, so it is not completely unheard of. To them your 2.5mg/day may not be as bad. Honestly, I think stabilizing where you need to be will bring some healing so that your brain doesn't have to keep readjusting to dose changes. I think it would actually heal it a bit....

[[Ca...]]

Hey FuzzyD... sorry to hear its still hell for you... sure has been a rough run, and i think you have tried most things if i recall right... so just want to wish you some stability and healing. -I sure hope something budges soon for you...

Best wishes...

 

[[no...]]

Man, even though I was going through Hell at 1.5 I wish I had just held or pushed through it because updosing to 2 and holding and then 2.5 has not done anything to help. I actually feel worse now than even during my taper. This whole process has me feeling so hopeless. It's insane how EVERYTHING is so difficult and such a guessing game. I really hoped updosing would bring things back to being tolerable but I honestly feel like I'm in acute right now and I don't have a choice now but to taper and the only method of tapering I know is liquid which rocks me too! I spent 5 days at 3.0 because I was told it wouldn't be long enough to build a tolerance to that but if did build a tolerance and am feeling a .5 cut then I totally screwed myself especially because I have a prescriber now who is COMPLETELY ignorant about benzos. Maybe holding will help, I'm sure all these changes in dosage has done a number on my already ravaged CNS I just want some sort of relief because this is too much to take. Sorry for the rant, just feeling very scared and lost.

Hi Fuzzy  read this  other person's post's below, I've put bolder  lettering  on the the bits I would have said myself if I had written it  And Blaggybums reinstatement and up-dosing blog on the link at the bottom of this page, I hope you find them both helpful, I myself am rough after up-dosing again recently but its all a waiting game it takes longer than we'd like for it to work and we just have to be patient.

 

I'm having some severe symptoms I never had before on top of existing long term ones, this had also been the same in the past when I've up-dosed before becoming stabilised and in a good place. But it all takes time, it took months for it to happen for me the other times I up-dosed,  Sunday afternoon I felt like I was on the up.  And the last couple of days gone back wards and feel like  fkn hell but its not linear, I have to sit it out until stability comes around like everyone else.

 

Its rare it comes in a day or a week believe me I've read a lot on it, as well as doing it personally now and also in the past. And more than 5 weeks to  3-6 months is the common process time line , but that's not written in stone it may take longer than that for some of us.  You need to choose a dose and stay there, and hold for a few weeks at least then re-evaluate the situation but being a realist it may take a few months .

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

. When I updosed from 11mg to 20 mg in late February this year, I was already experiencing withdrawal insomnia. After the updose my symptoms got progressively worse. My insomnia worsened, my anxiety worsened and I had a whole new set of symptoms such as depression, ruminating thoughts ('I'm never going to get better'), dry mouth at night, night sweats, waking with anxiety and hot flushes.

 

***This went on for 2 weeks and got progressively worse. Thinking that my body could not cope with such a high dose, I dropped to 19mg for a week. If I thought I had troubles before, well this was arguably the worst week of my life! The drop made things even worse. Finally on the 18th March I made a decision to stay put on 20mg and have been doing so ever since. Slowly my symptoms subsided. After 7.5 weeks on 20mg, I'm still not happy with my sleep but it is better. All other symptoms are gone.***

 

*****So the point I'm making is: 1) Any change in dosage, whether you go up or down, may cause unwanted symptoms. This is because any change in dosage when you have a destabilized CNS is going to add to that destabilization. 2) If you are attempting to stabilize on one specific dose for any given period of time and you choose to alter that dose (up or down), this has a tendency to 'reset the clock' in your nervous system so that any gains you may have made with regard to withdrawal symptoms improving or subsiding before you changed the dose are kind of 'wiped out' and you have to start all over again (at least this happened with me) 3) It can take a long (LONG) time to stabilize so you have to be patient. Some people stabilize in a week. For other is can take months.****

 

 

If your symptoms aren't improving or are getting worse after an updose, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need drop your dosage, in some cases it certainly does, but in mine lowering the dose made things worse. Having said that, if you're experiencing serious issues such as elevated blood pressure and headaches you do have to be careful and discern between a serious adverse reaction and plain old garden variety withdrawal symptoms. Hope this information helps in some way:)

 

 

 

 

reinstatement and updosing bloghttp://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=165415.0

[[Pl...]]

I don't know if I'm being wrong about this but it seems as

though updosing and long holds have a greater

chance of working with Valium then kolonopin...

at least that's what it seems like to me from what I've seen....

gosh I hope its not true... But I always see it working alot

with Valium ... Alot

 

When Bataid gave their advice I wonder if they notice

differences in their experiences with the various types of benzos...

. Or if they believe it works with valium it works with all benzos

my experience is a benzo isn't a benzo they all feel and work on

certain parts of us then the others do... My experience and

observations...

I was wondering if Bataid has alot of experience with kolonopin

Since I don't think its prescribed very much there in the UK?

Just curious

I wish I was given Valium instead

 

 

Even on Valley Ums propaganda list there are some quotations

kind of eluding to the fact that kolonopin works differently

and is much harder. When it comes to this... I don't know...

on the long hold support thread I never see any Kpin users except

for one and it didnt really work for her even based on a 6 month

hold and a decent updose.... But having said that....

She was a reinstatement after 3 years off and her original benzo was

ativan...

But again Valium seems to work more times then not

 

I took ativan as well and waited 10 months to take Kpin per

dr due to severe debilitating involuntary movements shaking/convulsions

tremoring...my story was kind of similar to hers but not quite....

 

I think with Kpin if you never went off of it your chances

are much better with updosing and holding

 

I keep trying to find that one person; just one who has experienced

something similar.... My sxs are so bizarre and pure torture

when I can't find anyone with them I feel extreme despair

and hopelessness and a sense of isolation that is too much to bear...

 

I hope someone that is reading this can provide some further insight....

 

Please understand I am not trying to dash hope but rather

trying to find it desperately myself....

I would be the first to give it if I could

 

Where are you that one person?  :'(

 

 

 

 

[[Su...]]

I don't know if I'm being wrong about this but it seems as

though updosing and long holds have a greater

chance of working with Valium then kolonopin...

at least that's what it seems like to me from what I've seen....

gosh I hope its not true... But I always see it working alot

with Valium ... Alot

 

When Bataid gave their advice I wonder if they notice

differences in their experiences with the various types of benzos...

. Or if they believe it works with valium it works with all benzos

my experience is a benzo isn't a benzo they all feel and work on

certain parts of us then the others do... My experience and

observations...

I was wondering if Bataid has alot of experience with kolonopin

Since I don't think its prescribed very much there in the UK?

Just curious

I wish I was given Valium instead

 

 

Even on Valley Ums propaganda list there are some quotations

kind of eluding to the fact that kolonopin works differently

and is much harder. When it comes to this... I don't know...

on the long hold support thread I never see any Kpin users except

for one and it didnt really work for her even based on a 6 month

hold and a decent updose.... But having said that....

She was a reinstatement after 3 years off and her original benzo was

ativan...

But again Valium seems to work more times then not

 

I took ativan as well and waited 10 months to take Kpin per

dr due to severe debilitating involuntary movements shaking/convulsions

tremoring...my story was kind of similar to hers but not quite....

 

I think with Kpin if you never went off of it your chances

are much better with updosing and holding

 

I keep trying to find that one person; just one who has experienced

something similar.... My sxs are so bizarre and pure torture

when I can't find anyone with them I feel extreme despair

and hopelessness and a sense of isolation that is too much to bear...

 

I hope someone that is reading this can provide some further insight....

 

Please understand I am not trying to dash hope but rather

trying to find it desperately myself....

I would be the first to give it if I could

 

Where are you that one person?  :'(

 

Well of course Ashton recommended swapping to Valium as it's a longer acting drug.  I swapped over from 7.5 mg Ativan to 75mg Diazepam with no problems and it has been a successful ploy for many

[Guest [wi...]]

I don't know if I'm being wrong about this but it seems as

though updosing and long holds have a greater

chance of working with Valium then kolonopin...

at least that's what it seems like to me from what I've seen....

gosh I hope its not true... But I always see it working alot

with Valium ... Alot

 

When Bataid gave their advice I wonder if they notice

differences in their experiences with the various types of benzos...

. Or if they believe it works with valium it works with all benzos

my experience is a benzo isn't a benzo they all feel and work on

certain parts of us then the others do... My experience and

observations...

I was wondering if Bataid has alot of experience with kolonopin

Since I don't think its prescribed very much there in the UK?

Just curious

I wish I was given Valium instead

 

 

Even on Valley Ums propaganda list there are some quotations

kind of eluding to the fact that kolonopin works differently

and is much harder. When it comes to this... I don't know...

on the long hold support thread I never see any Kpin users except

for one and it didnt really work for her even based on a 6 month

hold and a decent updose.... But having said that....

She was a reinstatement after 3 years off and her original benzo was

ativan...

But again Valium seems to work more times then not

 

I took ativan as well and waited 10 months to take Kpin per

dr due to severe debilitating involuntary movements shaking/convulsions

tremoring...my story was kind of similar to hers but not quite....

 

I think with Kpin if you never went off of it your chances

are much better with updosing and holding

 

I keep trying to find that one person; just one who has experienced

something similar.... My sxs are so bizarre and pure torture

when I can't find anyone with them I feel extreme despair

and hopelessness and a sense of isolation that is too much to bear...

 

I hope someone that is reading this can provide some further insight....

 

Please understand I am not trying to dash hope but rather

trying to find it desperately myself....

I would be the first to give it if I could

 

Where are you that one person?  :'(

 

 

 

 

 

I reinstated Klonopin, updosed, held and am doing fine on it.  Please remember, you are reading anecdoctal experiences on here.