Updosing Support Group

[[je...]]

I'm glad this is making more sense to you. I cannot comment on anything related to diabetes as I have no knowledge about that. When I refer to blood serum levels, I am talking about the concentration of benzodiazepines in your blood. Ashton said (in the manual):

 

Slow withdrawal means tapering dosage gradually, usually over a period of some months. The aim is to obtain a smooth, steady and slow decline in blood and tissue concentrations of benzodiazepines so that the natural systems in the brain can recover their normal state.

 

If you increase your dose and then drop the next day, then you disrupt this steady concentration. Ashton also said: 

 

Some doctors advocate the use of "escape pills" (an extra dose of benzodiazepines) in particularly stressful situations. This is probably not a good idea as it interrupts the smooth decline in benzodiazepine concentrations and also disrupts the process of learning to cope without drugs which is an essential part of the adaptation to withdrawal.

 

Some people take rescue doses and on the surface it doesn't seem to have any adverse effect. Then they do it more often and more frequent. The three times you've done it, is not a problem, it's only when it comes a becomes a more frequent habit that it will be problematic.

 

I hope this helps.

[[or...]]

Ok, I think I actually remember the first quote from Ashton but I didn't connect it.  Thank you for showing Ashton's info and sharing it with me Jelly Bean, I appreciate it much, and I don't mind being warned off, or away from something that might mess with my recovery  Denise

 

 

[[or...]]

Not very good news this a.m. as I tried another 3 mg tablet of melatonin to help with the insominia I've had for about 4 nights.  I also took a 45 min.walk even though we had a lot of wind yesterday.  I do have allergies, and it seems to be year-round, but gets worse when pollen is high.  So now I've had 2 migraines in the last 2 days.  I don't believe it's the allergies as I have them most of the year, but the melatonin I'm pretty sure caused the migraines. 

 

So now I'll have to find another way to get the race-brain and very little sleep. I know I don't have insomnia as bad as some I've talked to, or read about, but I usually only get a very few hours, 2-4 hrs.  I can't be using rescue-doses of my C as I can't take a chance of that messing up my recovery.  Jellybean gave me the heads-up on that issue and I think Dr. Ashton's info is the best I've ever read on benzos.

 

So I'll be looking around today to see what others are trying to see if I think something else might help me.  I can't get to sleep in the first place, but if I do, I wake up, and that's when I get the race-brain again, rolling around in bed just wanting my thinking to stop.  I'm thinking my latest rescue-dose caused the lack of sleep last 2 nights, which the first night I took it, I slept all night, but the next 2 have been bad.  Both with lack of sleep, and migraine on top of that.

 

I'll read through the thread and find what I can for others with the insomnia and thanks to all that have shared, especially the info from Jellybean.  I admit I didn't want to believe it, and thought I was good on just adding a dose of my C once in awhile but I'm not, so I have to find another way.  I wish I wasn't fearful about throwing out my "saved" scraps of what I trim off my dry-cuts, but I can't forget what happened in my last 2 tries of tapering.  One was CT, and the other was an MD that tapered me too fast.  I don't have to tell anyone that's been on a benzo about wd sxs trying it those ways.

 

Learn as I go, stay open-minded to others that have gone before me, Denise

[[Su...]]

Not very good news this a.m. as I tried another 3 mg tablet of melatonin to help with the insominia I've had for about 4 nights.  I also took a 45 min.walk even though we had a lot of wind yesterday.  I do have allergies, and it seems to be year-round, but gets worse when pollen is high.  So now I've had 2 migraines in the last 2 days.  I don't believe it's the allergies as I have them most of the year, but the melatonin I'm pretty sure caused the migraines. 

 

So now I'll have to find another way to get the race-brain and very little sleep. I know I don't have insomnia as bad as some I've talked to, or read about, but I usually only get a very few hours, 2-4 hrs.  I can't be using rescue-doses of my C as I can't take a chance of that messing up my recovery.  Jellybean gave me the heads-up on that issue and I think Dr. Ashton's info is the best I've ever read on benzos.

 

So I'll be looking around today to see what others are trying to see if I think something else might help me.  I can't get to sleep in the first place, but if I do, I wake up, and that's when I get the race-brain again, rolling around in bed just wanting my thinking to stop.  I'm thinking my latest rescue-dose caused the lack of sleep last 2 nights, which the first night I took it, I slept all night, but the next 2 have been bad.  Both with lack of sleep, and migraine on top of that.

 

I'll read through the thread and find what I can for others with the insomnia and thanks to all that have shared, especially the info from Jellybean.  I admit I didn't want to believe it, and thought I was good on just adding a dose of my C once in awhile but I'm not, so I have to find another way.  I wish I wasn't fearful about throwing out my "saved" scraps of what I trim off my dry-cuts, but I can't forget what happened in my last 2 tries of tapering.  One was CT, and the other was an MD that tapered me too fast.  I don't have to tell anyone that's been on a benzo about wd sxs trying it those ways.

 

Learn as I go, stay open-minded to others that have gone before me, Denise

 

Hi Denise,

I'm sorry you've had such a rough time.  The thing with melatonin is that it is a hormone.  And when I worked with docs at a sleep clinic they recommended no more than 1mg a night and not every night.  It wacks me out completely!  I can't use it at all.

 

What I learned on these boards to help with my insomnia -- a sxs that is simply intolerable for me-- is taking a smidgeon of Mirtazapine/ Remeron.

It's an antidepressant in higher doses and a sedative in lower doses.  By lower I mean that I take about 3mg a night (an antidepressant dose would start in the 15mg and up range).  It's a funny med and I'd be quite lost without it.  Some here have had trouble with it, and for others it has been a godsend.

My doc had no problem prescribing it for the reason of insomnia.

 

It occasionally stops working and then I LOWER my dose-- yup I've got that right.  Lower dose when it stops working.    I go with what works!

 

Yesterday I had a huge day for me and got really overtired.  When that happens I usually can't sleep and then wake up ridiculously early.  I took 1mg at 4:00am and slept until 8:30.  My day has been difficult due to fatigue but nothing like it would have been....

 

And so good that Jelly caught that you weren't updosing but rescue dosing....   There is so much nuance to this dance with benzos!

 

I so hope the migraines are melatonin related in that they will go away soon, or respond to a lower dose?

 

We've got this, it just appears to be a moving target sometimes, a lot of the time.

[[or...]]

Not very good news this a.m. as I tried another 3 mg tablet of melatonin to help with the insominia I've had for about 4 nights.  I also took a 45 min.walk even though we had a lot of wind yesterday.  I do have allergies, and it seems to be year-round, but gets worse when pollen is high.  So now I've had 2 migraines in the last 2 days.  I don't believe it's the allergies as I have them most of the year, but the melatonin I'm pretty sure caused the migraines. 

 

So now I'll have to find another way to get the race-brain and very little sleep. I know I don't have insomnia as bad as some I've talked to, or read about, but I usually only get a very few hours, 2-4 hrs.  I can't be using rescue-doses of my C as I can't take a chance of that messing up my recovery.  Jellybean gave me the heads-up on that issue and I think Dr. Ashton's info is the best I've ever read on benzos.

 

So I'll be looking around today to see what others are trying to see if I think something else might help me.  I can't get to sleep in the first place, but if I do, I wake up, and that's when I get the race-brain again, rolling around in bed just wanting my thinking to stop.  I'm thinking my latest rescue-dose caused the lack of sleep last 2 nights, which the first night I took it, I slept all night, but the next 2 have been bad.  Both with lack of sleep, and migraine on top of that.

 

I'll read through the thread and find what I can for others with the insomnia and thanks to all that have shared, especially the info from Jellybean.  I admit I didn't want to believe it, and thought I was good on just adding a dose of my C once in awhile but I'm not, so I have to find another way.  I wish I wasn't fearful about throwing out my "saved" scraps of what I trim off my dry-cuts, but I can't forget what happened in my last 2 tries of tapering.  One was CT, and the other was an MD that tapered me too fast.  I don't have to tell anyone that's been on a benzo about wd sxs trying it those ways.

 

Learn as I go, stay open-minded to others that have gone before me, Denise

 

Hi Denise,

I'm sorry you've had such a rough time.  The thing with melatonin is that it is a hormone.  And when I worked with docs at a sleep clinic they recommended no more than 1mg a night and not every night.  It wacks me out completely!  I can't use it at all.

 

What I learned on these boards to help with my insomnia -- a sxs that is simply intolerable for me-- is taking a smidgeon of Mirtazapine/ Remeron.

It's an antidepressant in higher doses and a sedative in lower doses.  By lower I mean that I take about 3mg a night (an antidepressant dose would start in the 15mg and up range).  It's a funny med and I'd be quite lost without it.  Some here have had trouble with it, and for others it has been a godsend.

My doc had no problem prescribing it for the reason of insomnia.

 

It occasionally stops working and then I LOWER my dose-- yup I've got that right.  Lower dose when it stops working.    I go with what works!

 

Yesterday I had a huge day for me and got really overtired.  When that happens I usually can't sleep and then wake up ridiculously early.  I took 1mg at 4:00am and slept until 8:30.  My day has been difficult due to fatigue but nothing like it would have been....

 

And so good that Jelly caught that you weren't updosing but rescue dosing....   There is so much nuance to this dance with benzos!

 

I so hope the migraines are melatonin related in that they will go away soon, or respond to a lower dose?

 

We've got this, it just appears to be a moving target sometimes, a lot of the time.

 

Hi SS, it's good you brought up Melatonin being a hormone, and I did read that, but thought 3 mg was such a low dose.  Thing is, before menopause, I had migraines every month, and when the doc wanted to put me on Estrogen/progesterone, can't remember what all I tried, my migraines came back with a vengence so I've always avoided hormone replacement.  I might be confused with all that, but I am so grateful you've told me about the Mitazapine!  I've never done well on anti-depresents, but if they were to work for sleep, that might be good, I'll ask my MD for sure   Thanks much, Denise  PS until then I am just going to try to deal with the insomnia on my own, still getting plenty of exercise, but like you, if I push too hard, it's like I am too tired to sleep good.  Tonight I'll do a bath in Epsom Salt to see if that will help. Plus I take Magnesium, 500mg 2x a day  

[[Fa...]]

Hello,

 

I'm in Tolerance can updosing help?

I don't know what can I do.

I'am afraid. Have many Symtoms, and don't know how can I taper.

 

Kind regards

[[je...]]

Hello,

 

I'm in Tolerance can updosing help?

I don't know what can I do.

I'am afraid. Have many Symtoms, and don't know how can I taper.

 

Kind regards

 

With tolerance it's very hard to say. Updosing should help but we can't tell you for how long. You will eventually become tolerant to the higher dose as well, and we don't know how long that will take. You also don't know how much you need to updose for it to be effective. If it's too little you won't feel it and if you keep increasing little by little you're not feeling better just increasing your taper dose. You don't have too much leeway to experiment with.

 

I wish I could be more helpful. I think it depends entirely on how severe your symptoms are. If you feel you don't have any other choice then you can try updosing. There's just no guarantee that it will work unfortunately. Nothing with benzo's is guaranteed.

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Many thanks,

 

With me everything is complicated.

I drank alcohol at the end of February, a lot, so I had to go to detox. There I was on 6,885mg Flurazepam in the morning and 13,71 mg in the evening plus 0,8 mg Clonazepam. At the clinic they increased the benzos. 27.42mg flurazepam = 1tablet and 2mg clonazepam. I don't know why I did this it was a big mistake and I blame myself big time. Now I feel so bad, not sleeping properly, tingling in head hands and feet, face. Restlessness, feelings of unreality, anxiety, racing heart in the morning, trembling, depression, etc....

I don't know what to do and I don't want to do it anymore.

 

Love greetings

[[in...]]

I am in need of Updose advise,

 

Due to a severe health issue (2 recent heart Surgeries and 2 stomach operations) I was thrown into a severe flare up of withdrawal symptoms.  I had stopped Ambien cold Turkey Sept 2022 and was suffering acute post withdrawal symptoms.  4 months later along came multiple surgeries including 2 heart operations where they used mega doses of a Benzo called Versed.

 

Now to cope I have had to take a few doses of Ambien and which I switched to 8-10mgs of Valium.  My hope was to get stable with Valium and after a stable period restart a Valium taper.  A few weeks into my Valium reinstatement I am still suffering almost as much and it is causing alarming signs on my heart EKG tests.  How fast should I increase my Valium level to find a stable level?  My wife is very worried I might have a heart attack since I now have been just treated for severe heart disease at 67 years old.

 

I would be so grateful for anyone’s Updose advise!🙏

 

Michael

6/24/23

[[Fa...]]

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Hello Buddies,

 

 

 

I have a question. Am Donnerstag muss ich stabil sein. Es geht um meine Tochter. Kann ich mal Oxazepam dafür nehmen?

 

Damit ich den Termin überstehen? Vielleicht 10 oder 20 mg. Kann ich es dann einfach wieder weglassen oder sollte ich es über ein paar Tage in 2,5 er Schritt reduzieren?

 

Oder gibt es eine Alternative Möglichkeit?

 

Liebe Grüße

 

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Übersetzter Text

Hello Buddies,

 

 

 

I have a question. I have to be stable on Thursday. It is about my daughter. Can I take oxazepam for that?

 

So that I can get through the appointment? Maybe 10 or 20 mg. Can I just drop it again then or should I reduce it over a few days in 2.5's increments?

 

Or is there an alternative option?

 

Kind regards