Updosing Support Group

[[Be...]]

Thanks! We are both getting there.....slow and steady  yes!

[[Pl...]]

Hi all  After going into hell and getting worse the last few days with yesterday being the worst of the worse, followed by the same but getting worse again today  :D I took a 1/2 mg of tonight's 2mg dose rather than take an extra 1/2 or 1mg to see if it would help. And it took the edge off my symptoms  well enough for me to be able to funtion and do what I needed to do indoors  today,  I will see how it goes from here as I didn't think it would be much help as I felt so terrible but help it did.

 

 

I will have been holding at this updose for 3 months next week, and want to give it until then a at least  in case the change was coming anyway before I make any decisions about up-dosing further. If I should come to the conclusion a further updose and hold is definitely needed  and believe me I don't take it lightly.  I am talking about getting out of being disabled by the withdrawal not very uncomfortable . I can take a good kicking but I can't take it when I can't get up off the floor, then I'm no good to myself regarding not just surviving tapering, withdrawal and recovery, but staying alive and being physically productive enough to do so And  also need to remain mentally logical and rational  enough not to do anything illogical to myself or anyone else.

 

 

My mind bends something truly horrific and it scares me that I may loose the capacity to keep remain rational no matter what and be aware of what I'm doing, I've had to battle what feels like an army of evil inside my head to not totally loose control. And when your totally alone with no contact it's one hell of a wrestling match within, battling an unseen chemical legion all by yourself every day for years.  Anyway regarding if I have to updose further I intend to do it by 1/2 mg a each time rather than the 1mg I was considering if the time to do it came. And the other possibility I'm considering is whether to updose each week until I find my halting place or leave it longer again , I'm unsure about that right now.

 

 

And I have to see how I am tonight as I've now cut 1/2mg form my PM dose as I take 3mg AM and 2mg PM so I have a few things to make an informed decisions on how to proceed, and even then I may have to change something up or down a notch who knows? so its all by ear/intuition based on how I feel I'm doing. It was fear and of what others were saying when I was weak that got me too scared to do this 2 years ago, and all the fear is based in theory not stone hard indisputable proven facts. 

 

 

Yeah sure when its a bad day, now and again I wonder if I did the right thing who doesn't think like that ? I thought like that everyday while cutting down lower as well But more than that I wonder ALL the time, why the hell did I let fear based other peoples opinions which are majorly  based on fear not fact get the better of me, and not updose the minute I felt I was beginning to headway beyond discomfort and becoming disabled very rapidly?  We fear that others know better than ourselves because they been on the forum a long time, and are healed, but it's not true we know our bodies better than anyone.

 

 

So now I've reverted back to what I did for many years while getting off all kinds of prescription drugs, if I got slightly symptomatic I held until the symptoms went and I had a rest from the symptoms. Reduced the size cuts, elongated the time between cuts and had liveable symptoms that never kept me housebound continuously. if I got major symptoms, I back tracked by going back on the last comfortable dose until they went away then resumed cutting down again. No matter what I still got off and with a lot less problems that I encountered over the last 2 years and that was off all types of drugs including Benzos. Like  SusieJ said  until you take that leap of faith you will never know.  Your real enemy is fear 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

Nova... Forgive me for brain fog  but in your first paragraph you meant that you took less then what you originally take and felt better?

[[Ca...]]

I think Nova wrote that before her evening dose, and meant that she pinched half a mg from her evening dose and took it earlier in the morning, to see how it helped with the day...

Nova, u can slap me if im wrong... and probably again for answering for you...!!!

-i just cant resist a pop quiz...

 

[[no...]]

I think Nova wrote that before her evening dose, and meant that she pinched half a mg from her evening dose and took it earlier in the morning, to see how it helped with the day...

Nova, u can slap me if im wrong... and probably again for answering for you...!!!

-i just cant resist a pop quiz...

:laugh:

she pinched half a mg from her evening dose and took it earlier in the morning, to see how it helped with the day...

Your absolutely correct old bean And I don't mind you answering at all, I need all the help I can get right now 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Pl...]]

I think Nova wrote that before her evening dose, and meant that she pinched half a mg from her evening dose and took it earlier in the morning, to see how it helped with the day...

Nova, u can slap me if im wrong... and probably again for answering for you...!!!

-i just cant resist a pop quiz...

 

Can't fly.... Thank you.,,that makes sense ....so nova  "borrowed" shall we say a part of her later dose so that the morning was better but didnt decrease or increase anything so to speak...

 

Sorry nova we dont mean to speak around you since you are not here.... But this is how brain fogged my brain is at the moment... Holy cow...how embarrassing and inept am I? 

 

Maybe this will make someone else feel better if they think they are bad......

[[Ca...]]

Nova,

 

Hugs n strength to you... I know you have probably seen every trick benzo can throw at us...

But pls remember to look back and see what you have overcome and just how far you have come...

May tomorrow be all you hope for...

 

Pleasebehere, -its only cos i read it 63 times, gave up and asked Siri...

-hope things are going well for you also... hang in there...

 

[[no...]]

Nova,

 

Hugs n strength to you... I know you have probably seen every trick benzo can throw at us...

But pls remember to look back and see what you have overcome and just how far you have come...

May tomorrow be all you hope for...

 

Pleasebehere, -its only cos i read it 63 times, gave up and asked Siri...

-hope things are going well for you also... hang in there...

Hi CF,  I keep journals  on my PC, and have just been updating changes, good , bad, or indifferent  Its been a very rough week for me :D but hopefully it will turn around, I now feel a little better than I have for most of the day, and am now 3 months into holding at 5mg after up-dosing from 3.45mg to 5mg Hope your doing okay 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Pl...]]

Nova,

 

Hugs n strength to you... I know you have probably seen every trick benzo can throw at us...

But pls remember to look back and see what you have overcome and just how far you have come...

May tomorrow be all you hope for...

 

Pleasebehere, -its only cos i read it 63 times, gave up and asked Siri...

-hope things are going well for you also... hang in there...

 

Thank you can't fly for making me feel better....and nova for your responses and updates. Sooooo much

[[Pl...]]

Please help!    I dose 3xs a day was holding at 102 grams.... Saw very microscopic improvements though still hell...

 

Got slammed this morning...

 

1) If I go up the next increment do I go to 103 grams 3xs a day all at once? Or little by little?

 

I'm having severe sxs of spastic breathing... Inner restlessness akasthesia complete adrenaline surges shooting up into my chest making my jaw lock open up and down .....and my eyes at 4:00am this morning

 

Could the drug actually be doing this?   

I didnt want to go up more because I feel severe depression on the drug and suicidal ideation( just thoughts) but may need to to stop physical....

 

2) Please help.... When I updose I get sick but that's normal?

 

I often think of cold turkeying to see if this would all stop... But petrified... My only chance is to see if I can be stable somewhat...Is the updosing...Please help!!!

Didnt know which way to go so I chose this route first!

 

 

[[Ca...]]

Please, -sorry to hear your still hurting badly...

 

103 is where you were 3 months ago. Where were you and when did you have that glimps of a window?

What I did was go strapght back to where i felt i could cope...

But i know that for me going up in a chunk is fine...

But you have had more of a struggle getting stable, as i recall...?

Might this settle in the next day or two?

If you do have to go back up, i would try to keep it to a minimum, but enough to make things bearable, then hold to see how that goes...

 

Hope its only very short term s/x that your feeling...

 

[[Pl...]]

Please, -sorry to hear your still hurting badly...

 

103 is where you were 3 months ago. Where were you and when did you have that glimps of a window?

What I did was go strapght back to where i felt i could cope...

But i know that for me going up in a chunk is fine...

But you have had more of a struggle getting stable, as i recall...?

Might this settle in the next day or two?

If you do have to go back up, i would try to keep it to a minimum, but enough to make things bearable, then hold to see how that goes...

 

Hope its only very short term s/x that your feeling...

I was at 102 grams when I had that 3 hour window

Yes these sxs intensified in September of last year I am describing... Its starting again have to stop typing

[[Pl...]]

I just updosed again and got much much worse... Please tell me if this is normal....please tell me as my eyes are stuck in a perpetual spasm so painful my eyes are swollen shut along with the rest of my face... tried to stand stuck in contorted spastic condition with legs and arms extended out ; inability to move ; then broke....

 

Please help....

[[Pl...]]

I don't care anymore; nothing left in me

[[Ca...]]

PleaseB...

I dont know...?

I pulled out the codeine and a little extra V... (but i didnt go as far as lyrica) -I should have been fine, better than fine...  But no, maybe a fraction better, but thats probably a placebo effect for real... -buf i had to function and do a quick shop... god knows how i did it, it was all i could do to not drop to the floor...

 

Point being, i dont know what those before us have done to get through... -but i sure wojld like to know... 23hrs a day in bed for months on end...

But we have to keep going, find a way, find what works and what dont... sometimes others just dont have the answers...

I am even seriously considering a ct from here if things dont settle... My choice...

 

So hang in there, dont give up and keep looking for a way forward... -even if u have to break the rules to survive... but its your choice alone...

 

I wish things were better for you, I truly do... yourself and Dad24boys have stood out to me from the day i joined, and i often think of you both...

 

Stay strong, and best wishes...

Buddy Hugs...

 

[[Ca...]]

How is everyone going?

 

Those that recently updosed (or not so recently), have things started to settle?

 

-They would have for me, had i not complicated things with other changes at the same time... so I will be just holding and healing for a while...

 

Best wishes to all...

 

[[ho...]]

I just updosed again and got much much worse... Please tell me if this is normal....please tell me as my eyes are stuck in a perpetual spasm so painful my eyes are swollen shut along with the rest of my face... tried to stand stuck in contorted spastic condition with legs and arms extended out ; inability to move ; then broke....

 

Please help....

pbh I know your situation is different than some. As we have spoke many times, the reason this is happening is you were ten months off a cold turkey and they reinstated you on a different benzo. In my opinion, they should not have reinstated you at all after ten months. But they have and you tapered the k pretty quickly. Remember bataid said updosing, don't over updose and it gets worse before it gets better. You have to decide, if you want to continue to hold or start tapering the k where you are now. Now that you've updose again I would not start tapering just yet. I know how badly you are suffering, I  know you want off the k, and I know this makes no sense to you. As it makes no sense to any of us. There is no body on here that their taper is the same and surely no one on here that there way is the only way. There has been some very wrong advice given on this group by people so reverred by others because they compare their taper to others', but it is what it is. Remember bataid told you people updose and do not hold at that dose long enough. But we are all trying to find our way. There are other resources you can reach out to. What I said in our last correspondence ...... Hugs to you, praying for you. Nicole

[Guest [Fu...]]

Hi guys,

 

Like many of you I'm facing the dilemma or deciding whether or not I should go the updosing route. I was in tolerance withdrawal for at least 2 years before beginning my taper at 2.5 mg's of Klonopin in February of last year. I did a mixture dry/liquid microtaper where I was liquefying .5 mg's at a time and taking the rest of my dose dry at a rate of 10% a month. I was doing okay with this until I got to around 1.75 and I was absolutely rocked by symptoms. I got down to 1.5 but couldn't take it anymore and updosed to 2 where I have held since November with no benefit.

 

I am bed ridden, constantly overwhelmed by anxiety and fear, I am so agoraphobic that I cannot leave the house and I even have trouble leaving my room. Thinking back to the start of my taper, I was far from great but I could do many things that I can't now (yoga, light cardio, watch TV shows, see friends). I was told by someone who helps people taper off benzos that 10% was too fast for me and that by not keeping my doses even I messed with the levels of the drug in my blood which eventually caught up with me. So I guess the thinking in updosing to 3 mg's is to try and stabilize as much as possible and then to MT the right way with less SX. I just hate to give up a year's worth of tapering progress but I don't know what else to do. I also worry that even if it goes well for a year or so I could end up in the same place when I get to 2 mg's again. It also concerns me that I simply for whatever reason cannot handle liquid tapers even though it's the same amount of drug.

 

Any thoughts/advice? Thanks.

[[Ca...]]

Hey FuzzyD, sorry to hear that things are still not improving...

 

-Just a thought, -not advice, But maybe consider holding longer if things havent been getting any worse... -I would hate to see you do another bigger updose and still find yourself in a similar situation...

 

But like you are, gather the info and then decide...

 

Hope things get better real soon...

 

[[Bi...]]

Hi all 

 

 

I've started a support  as there's is quiet a few of us on here that have had to up-dosed or recently, or are seriously  considering it, and other than posting all over the forum there's no actual support for those of us who have actually done it, or want to try it. And  If you do post regarding up-dosing your more likely to get frighted off by  people who haven't tried it giving negative replies out of fear of what they've read with no actual personal experience, or they did it as a one off and it never worked.

 

 

Or they took a tiny insignificant dose that would never had worked as it was way too low to be of any help.  I up-dosed just over 10 weeks ago and am still cycling with symptoms. People also need to know that  as it can commonly  take anything  from a few weeks up to a few months to stabilise. Its not often you get relief in a matter of days, and most people don't hold the up-dose long enough for it to work, and some peole will actually feel worse before they feel better that's another common factor.

 

 

And sometimes you may feel your going backwards before you establish stability too, you have to have patience and hang in there. I've had some oh my God WTF !! days then the next, day has been really good, as  its not linear while you wait to stabilise, it still shocks me how things can turn around for no logical reason I can find anyway.

 

 

And you will still get waves  before you stabilise, that's another reason people think the updose has gone wrong as they expect instant stability or at the very  least 3 days then it should  work. That not true, in most cases it takes a longer time time, I was I a mess at  3.45mg and barely surviving  struggling to get under 4mg for the last 2 years and couldn't taper no more so up-dosed back to 5mg where I was last in January 2015, on November 19th 2016.

 

 

 

My original dose was 20mg and it took me along time to get down from there as I was also taken CT off other Benzos and high doses of all sorts of poly drugs. I'm having some good, bad, okay and hell days still so I'm not stabilised yet so will continue holding here, if I feel in a few months I need to updose again I will do so, If I feel I am able to cut then I will cut. I've been housebound in agony for most of the last two years, so I had to change tactics. I hope this group will be of help to sort out the myths, repeated fear with no substance, except people who get scared to try anything different to help their self  by what they read.

 

 

 

I myself fell into that camp before I decided to be the master of my own fate and that if I didn't try I would never know what will or won't help me, there is no one size fits all or any guarantees about anything in life, and we can't gage ourselves by others. Everything and anything is maybe it will or won't work for us situation but only we can know that by trying it for ourselves.

 

 

I am not putting myself forward as some expert,  I no no more or less than anyone else I'm  just another soul trying to find their way out of the suffering we're all going through, and I've chosen to updose. I live alone with no help or support and if I can't function then I can't survive, I'm hoping for at least 30% better or more than I am now. I can cope with discomfort, but I can't cope with being physically and mentally disabled any longer and do nothing to try make it better, I know it takes time but it takes trying something too if you possibly can at anytime.

 

Love Nova xxx    :smitten:

 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Guest [Fu...]]

Things have been getting worse though. I am completely non functional. I can barely eat or shower. I'm scared to leave my bed. It's hard to even go on the computer. How the hell does anybody live like this? I can't handle a microtaper in this state. It's absolutely insane.

[[Ca...]]

Fuzzy, we just have to, and its not fair or right... my physical situation is much the same as you describe... but i know there are other vast differences in your sx that you have mentioned before...

 

I wish i had more of an answer for you, but all i can do is offer support and encouragment...

 

What gets me through each day is  trying to step back and look at the big picture, the general rules of the game perhaps..  To me that is a set of procedures to follow to get to an end goal. These suit my particular situation as best i can make them... its a bit of trial and error...

 

Its not like your new to this at all, so i suspect you have a fair idea of what might work, what hasnt worked and what wont work... -or what you are prepared to try, and what your not...

 

I hope others can give you more insight into your choices ahead..

 

Just know that no matter what you decide, we will support you as best we can.. and in the end we will all get through this, one way or another....

 

Stay strong, there will be a way through this...

 

Ps, whats your gabapentin situation? (Am on my fone and often lose posts if i flick back to see your sig) -just asking as tapering or a recent jump could have an effect on sx, possibly for some time, depending...

 

 

[Guest [Fu...]]

I was told by someone who helps a lot of people get off of benzos that I initially did okay with my MT but got rocked by sx because 10% was too fast for me and I wasn't evenly dosing/doing a dry/liquid taper incorrectly. So I'm *hoping* that if I updose to the dosage I was at when I started my taper (2.5 mg's Klonopin) and do a properly spaced MT at 5% that it can at least be bearable. I was in tolerance WD when I started so I was far from great but I could watch TV, exercise, clean and generally do things to take up the hours of the day that don't involve being petrified to leave my bed while I stare dead eyed at the wall and don't eat or bathe most days.

 

Because right now it isn't tolerable. At all. And I honestly can't do it no matter how much acceptance I practice.

 

I was on a small amount of Gabapentin for about 20 days and have been off for almost 2 months.

[[Ca...]]

Thats right, sorry, i couldnt quite remember about the GPN..  ur probably safe there...

 

Is there a generally accepted updosing procedure?? (Anyone?)

 

I have heard people say -have a guess and hold at that for a month to see...

Or. Slowly increase, -like a reverse taper, untill (hopefully) all is good...

Or even go up and beyond, then decrease till the sx start...

 

My updoses have been no more than 25%, or more a short rescue dose..

So just wondering...

 

Cheers....

 

[[Ca...]]

That person may well be right... -i am starting to find a lot of people that can only taper at 5% or below... -often with long holds of months at times...

They often seem to have done it the hard way, and now know what works for them...

 

Has made me rethink my whole approach into the future...

 

The goal is to get off these meds and heal... -if you need to take a step back inorder to continue forward, so be it... IMO.

 

 

[[ho...]]

That person may well be right... -i am starting to find a lot of people that can only taper at 5% or below... -often with long holds of months at times...

They often seem to have done it the hard way, and now know what works for them...

 

Has made me rethink my whole approach into the future...

 

The goal is to get off these meds and heal... -if you need to take a step back inorder to continue forward, so be it... IMO.

good advice Cantfly!