Updosing Support Group

[[Bi...]]

Thanks Bird... -rather interesting... I "get" the concept (I think), The implications are far reaching, if im thinking down the right paths...

Have u done a Chewing the Fat topic or something on this at all?

 

Take care...

 

Not without getting my head chopped off by one of the mods. 

You have to admit, it's a touchy topic and I do not want to encourage people in a deep C/T taking high doses of pills without someone in the medical community looking out for them as they did for me.

On the other hand it's really sad every time I read a post of some person that takes ONE PILL months after C/T'ing and then screaming at the bottle for 5 hours and freaking out with words like toxic, poison and paradoxical.  If they are properly sedated there is NO freaking out! NONE!

  If that person has missed taking 500 or 1000 doses for 4 or 5 months then taking one pill and wondering why it is not working, ahh, well, mmm,  just not happening let's just say.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Bird... -rather interesting... I "get" the concept (I think), The implications are far reaching, if im thinking down the right paths...

Have u done a Chewing the Fat topic or something on this at all?

 

Take care...

 

Not without getting my head chopped off by one of the mods. 

You have to admit, it's a touchy topic and I do not want to encourage people in a deep C/T taking high doses of pills without someone in the medical community looking out for them as they did for me.

On the other hand it's really sad every time I read a post of some person that takes ONE PILL months after C/T'ing and then screaming at the bottle for 5 hours and freaking out with words like toxic, poison and paradoxical.  If they are properly sedated there is NO freaking out! NONE!

  If that person has missed taking 500 or 1000 doses for 4 or 5 months then taking one pill and wondering why it is not working, ahh, well, mmm,  just not happening let's just say.

Yes, I see the problem... someone in the midst of it may well look at it in a way that they perhaps wouldnt normally. Or more intently than my curiosity and interest...

I will add it to my list (endless list) of things to google on a rainy day..

Best wishes...

[[Bi...]]

Hi Nova,

It's absolutely amazing how much power is in a tiny trace of benzo.  I am on my 7th mini low-level reinstate using 10mg Librium per week.  The half life on Librium is so long (250 hours+) that I only have to dose twice a week.  This is only to help my tinnitus and I have no other problems.

I think 10 mg Librium per week is like 1mg Valium per day but without it my hearing is shot.

If I was on an Ashton taper I'd have to jump today. 

 

I was professionally reinstated by one of 14 doctors in the world that does it.  Very common in kidnap cases both civilian and military. 

I talked to that doc for a while and I was amazed at how busy he was.  Seems people really do sink their boats and go down in planes and get lost on a island for months but most of his work is military kidnap cases.  He said there is about 200,000 active vets on Xanax that does not help shorten his work load either.  Al qaeda just loves a shackled up Marine in the basement jonesing for a xanax bar at the 3 month mark.

 

Were was I?  Being professionally reinstated.  I talked about it so much ("Search my posts for "anesthesiologist" to find the story") I just can't tell the story again but in a nut shell the secret is bolus dosing and medical monitoring and DO NOT GET COLD WHILE SLEEPING!!!

Getting cold is the worst thing that can happen to you while on an eye-crossing, mouth open, saliva drooling, bolus, high dose!  (Trust me, you will not be singing the old "benzo's are toxic" song any longer by this point)

 

  Treatment took about 7 days but I slept through most of it (starting to get the picture?) and was on a heart monitor the whole time,  beep, beep, beep.  Only the first night was at hospital and then 6 days of in-home care with a big bottle of meds and a flumazenil shot next to me in case the "beep, beep, beep" stopped (my husband was trained how to use it).

I had a permanent IV tube taped to me so he did not have to find a vain, just shot the syringe into the blue rubber part of the IV by my wrist)

Sugar-water (my IV) and a catheter was not fun either. That's about all the detail I want to give just in case those "Do it your-selfers" get any foolish ideas.

 

Take it from me. Going from a high dosage plus a 7 month long C/T,  I can honestly say getting back to normal is EXTREMELY dose dependent as I found out!  I was in a BAD way before I found this doc.

Once the Kainic acid storm in my brain was put down with extreme prejudice only then was a slow taper very easy to pull off for me.

 

[move]"If your not feeling well, avoid more cuts"

                                            -- Bird[/move]

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Kainic+acid+storm&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

 

Hi Birdy  thanks as always for your excellent info   Where you said ''I can honestly say getting back to normal is EXTREMELY dose dependent as I found out!'' ,  I totally agree, and as you flying banner says hold until it's over before you dare to cut again then hold even longer for a while when symptoms dissipate and enjoy life again. And that's why after much mulling over the situation in my own case, whether to do a bigger updose , and it would by way bigger than a couple of Mgs I've already done, or stay where I am until the storm breaks I decided I'm sitting and waiting.

 

The reason being, I was in bad tolerance withdrawal for over 10 years before I knew WTF was really going on plus CT off  and up and down high doses of different Benzo, strong Opiates plus other drugs the Medics put me on. I had got 100% stable in the past after going through hell after being on a certain dose long enough, and also got worse before I go better.

 

No matter if I've gone up,down or held, longest hold this time was 6 months,I get bitch slapped by severe withdrawal, my ear's are still a freaking mess along with being on fire plus other crap all day long. Now back in the past I held at a dose for a lot longer than 6 months  and shazzam!! Totally no symptoms except mild anxiety for a short time after waking and its hell all day most of the time now.

 

But here is the difference  between then and now, I wasn't on the forum then, although like you I have a love/hate relationship with it , I am eternally grateful that I found it and for some of the people on here who are truly good people,  fk the others !@%$^" who are not good people ( where's the kiss my arse smiley ) . Unfortunately I got freaked out and paranoid by some of the stuff so called 'veterans' keep bloody parroting, who were aided and abetted by newbies who treat certain peole like the Gods of Olympus and some kind of Benzo ''experts''  on here.

 

Before I joined and was ticking along solo  it was obvious  to me that when your having symptoms as soon as they arise don't wait for it to get any worse at the first little twitch hold no matter how long it just hold until it was all clear again. The other point being is whenever you go up or down your eliciting changes within the CNS,  so your knocking down a yet again under construction wall again.

 

If your lucky your wall is strong enough to hold the changes at bay without any bricks coming loose or the wall totally collapsing on top of you, but in reality its rarely that happens most walls fall down on top of you, crash!! hence more or worsening symptoms. If you just sit and wait for as long as it takes for the new wall to become a strong hold, and hold beyond that your chances of getting screwed over so badly again or at all drop unless you push your luck while feeling good and  break what didn't need mending any way. Like I did after reading Ashton on here sped up got fkd up and spent the last 2 year's really paying for it, my tolerance withdrawal at my full prescribed dose was nowhere near as brutal as this had become after going 'Ashton style'.

 

There should be a warning alongside posting it for every single newbie as the way to go that in may cases its WAY too fast and only A '' template'' not a freaking Benzo bible to be followed word for word and that your initial cuts should be done well below the Ashton suggestions until you find your own route . Look around the Forum LOTS of peole either got effed up by .A CT, B Too rapid a taper. C too big a cut each time and Ashton's protocol. even she got a lot wrong. 

 

''Carry on drinking'' for one that also nearly kills people on here with their symptoms, and ‘'don’t stop smoking while tapering Benzos  ?? No carry on sucking on over 7,000 known brain damaging chemicals with embalming fluid and paint stripper among them. Have you read her thesis on cannabis? It makes that look like a huge evil compared to Benzos?? WTF. And she contradicts herself a LOT as well if you read the headache of a manual right the way through.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

I agree with so much of what you say.  You and I have both been through the ringer! 

There is no doubt about it some people do not want you on pills for any reason.  With 6 of the worlds major religions/groups being ANTI-PILL your bound to get a few of them on here.

As long as your trying it's not over and for some of us it's just extra brutal!  We got stuck with some tricky genes from what I have read. 

In much of the MEDITERRANEAN area water was truly a DEADLY drink with all the pathogens.  People drinking wine never got sick so you end up with millions of people drinking wine like water from childhood to death AND while pregnant.    Genes got rearranged to treat wine like water.

 

All it takes is a trigger and it goes down hill fast as those genes kick in hard and fast!! 

Just Google ALCOHOLISM GENE IDENTIFIED for more info.

 

I have to cut Ashton some slack. She was HATED for her THEN radical talk / hated by insurance companies and the social medical practices for promoting "time wasting GP visits".

I think she was stuck between the politics of being accepted or being over-the-top.

I never read her stuff on pot but it looks like by 2025 in will be legal in 90% of the world after a 88 year old prohibition comes to a close.  Looks like the powerful Eugenics movement loses yet again. They used drug laws as a means of steering race but it back fired when whites started smoking pot.  They had performed sterilization of 60,000 dark skinned people from 1906 to 1960 for POT smoking.

Keep in mind the Eugenics movement started in LA California and they brought it to Hitler in 1934

 

The Eugenics movement is responsible for all drug laws and building codes, all designed to keep people of color down and separated. 

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-07-17/news/0307170342_1_sterilization-eugenics-human-betterment-foundation

 

I hope the building codes go next.  I want to build an earth home out of beer cans, hemp-stalks and clay but it is not legal now but was 88 years ago, who knows, one can hope

 

 

I agree that in this new age the world needs ASHTON Ver. 2.0 

 

Love to you Nova!

 

Birdy  :smitten:

[[HO...]]

Is it possible to stabilize after two

Rapid a taper and reinstatement 5 days later because of a sezuire. How long would you think the hold should be? My doctor says months.

[[Ca...]]

Sorry to hear...

 

Your Dr could be right...

But its too varied to tell, only you will know...

Just be sure that you dont think a good "window" is true stability...

Sorry, but I have seen too much varience to be more specific...

All I can say is, give it the time it needs...

 

And Best Wishes...

[[...]]

Hi Bird,

I'm trying to understand the kainic Storm and what it was you actually did? Did you go Ina high dose of a benzo fro a week under medical supervision in order to stop this activity? And then you were able to taper off your regular dose , or the dose they had you on?

I tried to find your story in your posts but couldn't ... Any chance you could direct me to a page number or approximate dates so I can find it? Thanks so much.  I'm trying to find my way through this maze and unfortunately got destabilized very quickly , didn't know any better than the Ashton manual and it was way too fast for me, even at the beginning .

So I'm resisting all urges to cut , in a bad wave at the moment. Have never really stabilized since I started my taper . If I had known back then I would have gone slower and waited before cutting... But got brainwashed by the gotta get off mind that is so prevelent . It's too bad for so many..... Hoping I can stabilize with holding , tho it's certainly not proving to be linear!

 

Thanks for your great posts ,

MiYu

[[ri...]]

Hey all. I'm very happy to find this group. I have been off BB for a few weeks after giving up on my taper. I had been taking ativan for 2 months for sleep after developing Tinnitus from an ear infection.I started tapering and I made it down to .75 in about 6 weeks and all hell broke loose. I really didnt think I was going to fast and everything was going great until I got hit with burning skin, extreme acid reflux, depression, major fear and anxiety. The reflux got so bad I couldnt eat anything so I hastily updosed right back to 1mg. I was on tons of supps and vitamins(l-glutamine, probiotics,multi vit,dgl) and cut them all out. I gave up on my taper without talking to my doctor(who was opposed to me tapering at the time anyway) and I didnt look up the consequences of up dosing. I didnt give myself time to heal and I split my dose to .5 in the am and .5 at night and it is slowly relieving some of my symptoms. My anxiety and depression is better and the burning skin and reflux arent there 24/7 but I still struggle with both, I got on a ppi and take antacids but they do absolutely nothing because these symptoms are 100% benzo related. I'm really hoping I stabilize soon so I can eat more then oatmeal and eggs and get back to doing what I was doing before I started my damn taper. I dont know why I was in such a hurry to taper and why I was cutting so fast. Anyway, I will wait for as long as it takes to stabilize but I am tempted to updose again to 1.25 mg even though I was never at that dose. Once I totally stabilize I am going to start the slowest taper ever. Any feedback from those of you who have updosed would be great

[[Ca...]]

Hey Ringing...

 

Sorry this happened to you, we just dont know until after the fact, and then have to try and fix...

 

But you seem to have the right idea, Though u will have some competition for the slowest possible taper...!!

 

Stability first in my opinion... -True stability, not just a window... Though this might not be SX free, just predictable and functional. If that is unobtainable, then I would look at updosing to get there...

 

Updosing is a change, just as cutting, and can take time to have any number of outcomes... which is why i would focus on holding if possible... But only you know how u feel, and what you can tollerate...

 

If you havnt already, I would read Novas introduction at the start of this thread, as it expands with more clarity...

 

Once ready to taper, perhaps try a small cut and give it some extra time to see how it goes...

From there taper by SX -with your chosen method...

 

Best wishes...

[[HO...]]

Sorry to hear...

 

Your Dr could be right...

But its too varied to tell, only you will know...

Just be sure that you dont think a good "window" is true stability...

Sorry, but I have seen too much varience to be more specific...

All I can say is, give it the time it needs...

 

And Best Wishes...

 

Thank you for your response I'm in the long hold group so I will make sure I do t cut till I get a large window.

[[...]]

Hi all 

 

 

I've started a support  as there's is quiet a few of us on here that have had to up-dosed or recently, or are seriously  considering it, and other than posting all over the forum there's no actual support for those of us who have actually done it, or want to try it. And  If you do post regarding up-dosing your more likely to get frighted off by  people who haven't tried it giving negative replies out of fear of what they've read with no actual personal experience, or they did it as a one off and it never worked.

 

 

Or they took a tiny insignificant dose that would never had worked as it was way too low to be of any help.  I up-dosed just over 10 weeks ago and am still cycling with symptoms. People also need to know that  as it can commonly  take anything  from a few weeks up to a few months to stabilise. Its not often you get relief in a matter of days, and most people don't hold the up-dose long enough for it to work, and some peole will actually feel worse before they feel better that's another common factor.

 

 

And sometimes you may feel your going backwards before you establish stability too, you have to have patience and hang in there. I've had some oh my God WTF !! days then the next, day has been really good, as  its not linear while you wait to stabilise, it still shocks me how things can turn around for no logical reason I can find anyway.

 

 

And you will still get waves  before you stabilise, that's another reason people think the updose has gone wrong as they expect instant stability or at the very  least 3 days then it should  work. That not true, in most cases it takes a longer time time, I was I a mess at  3.45mg and barely surviving  struggling to get under 4mg for the last 2 years and couldn't taper no more so up-dosed back to 5mg where I was last in January 2015, on November 19th 2016.

 

 

 

My original dose was 20mg and it took me along time to get down from there as I was also taken CT off other Benzos and high doses of all sorts of poly drugs. I'm having some good, bad, okay and hell days still so I'm not stabilised yet so will continue holding here, if I feel in a few months I need to updose again I will do so, If I feel I am able to cut then I will cut. I've been housebound in agony for most of the last two years, so I had to change tactics. I hope this group will be of help to sort out the myths, repeated fear with no substance, except people who get scared to try anything different to help their self  by what they read.

 

 

 

I myself fell into that camp before I decided to be the master of my own fate and that if I didn't try I would never know what will or won't help me, there is no one size fits all or any guarantees about anything in life, and we can't gage ourselves by others. Everything and anything is maybe it will or won't work for us situation but only we can know that by trying it for ourselves.

 

 

I am not putting myself forward as some expert,  I no no more or less than anyone else I'm  just another soul trying to find their way out of the suffering we're all going through, and I've chosen to updose. I live alone with no help or support and if I can't function then I can't survive, I'm hoping for at least 30% better or more than I am now. I can cope with discomfort, but I can't cope with being physically and mentally disabled any longer and do nothing to try make it better, I know it takes time but it takes trying something too if you possibly can at anytime.

 

Love Nova xxx    :smitten:

 

Thanks for starting this group Nova 

I'm still having a rough time and holding , I'm going to hold a bit longer and then seriously consider an updose. I'll be glad this group is here if i do.

 

How are you doing? Any better? I hope you get some relief soon ,

Love , MiYu  :smitten:

[[HO...]]

After reinstatement 4 days later an updose should you wait to cut until you don't have any debilitating symptoms?  How long does it usually take months to stabilize because that's what my doctors telling me?

[[...]]

After reinstatement 4 days later an updose should you wait to cut until you don't have any debilitating symptoms?  How long does it usually take months to stabilize because that's what my doctors telling me?

Hope- there's really no way to know how long it will take to stabilize . It sounds like you have a good doctor , who knows that stability is essential , I've had to learn that the hard way.

All you can do is listen to your body , how you feel. You will know when you feel well enough . Most , me included , rushed too fast because I thought I could , and have ended up having to hold a lot longer than I might have if I had stabilized first . I'm still not stable , but I had a much longer history owith benzos  than you ,( even tho not THAT long )  so you may stabilize much faster , but only you will really know .

You are fortunate to have a doctor who supports you in stabilizing , I'd listen to him / her .

Love , MiYu

[[HO...]]

I have a question I was reinstated after eight days at to love a dose by a non-benzo knowledgeable doctor. Then a month later I found a benzo wise doctor.  Who put me on equivalent dose I will leave 20 mg of Valium. Because there was such a space in the time I was reinstated to the right amount. Well I eventually stabilized after a few months or was this all a bad idea on my part? I know nothings for sure and benzo land but just looking for some input?

[[HO...]]

Hey Ringing...

 

Sorry this happened to you, we just dont know until after the fact, and then have to try and fix...

 

But you seem to have the right idea, Though u will have some competition for the slowest possible taper...!!

 

Stability first in my opinion... -True stability, not just a window... Though this might not be SX free, just predictable and functional. If that is unobtainable, then I would look at updosing to get there...

 

Updosing is a change, just as cutting, and can take time to have any number of outcomes... which is why i would focus on holding if possible... But only you know how u feel, and what you can tollerate...

 

If you havnt already, I would read Novas introduction at the start of this thread, as it expands with more clarity...

 

Once ready to taper, perhaps try a small cut and give it some extra time to see how it goes...

From there taper by SX -with your chosen method...

 

Best wishes...

 

Can this happen?

[[HO...]]

Hey all. I'm very happy to find this group. I have been off BB for a few weeks after giving up on my taper. I had been taking ativan for 2 months for sleep after developing Tinnitus from an ear infection.I started tapering and I made it down to .75 in about 6 weeks and all hell broke loose. I really didnt think I was going to fast and everything was going great until I got hit with burning skin, extreme acid reflux, depression, major fear and anxiety. The reflux got so bad I couldnt eat anything so I hastily updosed right back to 1mg. I was on tons of supps and vitamins(l-glutamine, probiotics,multi vit,dgl) and cut them all out. I gave up on my taper without talking to my doctor(who was opposed to me tapering at the time anyway) and I didnt look up the consequences of up dosing. I didnt give myself time to heal and I split my dose to .5 in the am and .5 at night and it is slowly relieving some of my symptoms. My anxiety and depression is better and the burning skin and reflux arent there 24/7 but I still struggle with both, I got on a ppi and take antacids but they do absolutely nothing because these symptoms are 100% benzo related. I'm really hoping I stabilize soon so I can eat more then oatmeal and eggs and get back to doing what I was doing before I started my damn taper. I dont know why I was in such a hurry to taper and why I was cutting so fast. Anyway, I will wait for as long as it takes to stabilize but I am tempted to updose again to 1.25 mg even though I was never at that dose. Once I totally stabilize I am going to start the slowest taper ever. Any feedback from those of you who have updosed would be great

 

What are the consequences of updosing?

[[Va...]]

I have a question I was reinstated after eight days at to love a dose by a non-benzo knowledgeable doctor. Then a month later I found a benzo wise doctor.  Who put me on equivalent dose I will leave 20 mg of Valium. Because there was such a space in the time I was reinstated to the right amount. Well I eventually stabilized after a few months or was this all a bad idea on my part? I know nothings for sure and benzo land but just looking for some input?

I don't think it was a bad idea Hope. Just give yourself time to adjust to the diazepam.  --V

[[HO...]]

I've been on this dose a month now. Shouldn't I be adjusted?

[[Va...]]

I've been on this dose a month now. Shouldn't I be adjusted?

It can take longer than a month especially since a cold turkey will have given your CNS a serious jolt. It can take a little while for the CNS to calm down enough for symptom relief.    --V

[[ka...]]

HOPE - I know it is so very hard day in and day out to get to that stabilized place. It may take more time, but you will feel better with time.

When i c/o from A to V it took me 6 months, please go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Sg - once said, heal quicker than you taper.  You are really doing a wonderful job of healing, hang in there!

[[HO...]]

HOPE - I know it is so very hard day in and day out to get to that stabilized place. It may take more time, but you will feel better with time.

When i c/o from A to V it took me 6 months, please go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Sg - once said, heal quicker than you taper.  You are really doing a wonderful job of healing, hang in there!

 

Thank you. I'm just scared. Should people on their medicine for a shorter amount of time taper faster or should it be symptom based.

[[bl...]]

It is a myth that the shorter you have been on the quicker the taper dependence is dependence your receptors don't discriminate. This has been my experience three times, the first I did a 10 month taper after reinstating after a horrendous cold turkey with no windows after less than a months low dose use of nitrazapam.  My sister who was on 6mg a of valium a day for multiple sclerosis for 3 years quit with not a single symptom. Everyone is different some people will suffer regardless of time. I think it is sensible to reach a place of relative stability before starting to taper and before each cut rather than setting a timetable.

[[HO...]]

HOPE - I know it is so very hard day in and day out to get to that stabilized place. It may take more time, but you will feel better with time.

When i c/o from A to V it took me 6 months, please go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Sg - once said, heal quicker than you taper.  You are really doing a wonderful job of healing, hang in there!

Thank you you're very kind.

[[HO...]]

HOPE - I know it is so very hard day in and day out to get to that stabilized place. It may take more time, but you will feel better with time.

When i c/o from A to V it took me 6 months, please go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Sg - once said, heal quicker than you taper.  You are really doing a wonderful job of healing, hang in there!

Thank you you're very kind.

 

What would your u define as relative stability? Thank you

[[ri...]]

HOPE - I know it is so very hard day in and day out to get to that stabilized place. It may take more time, but you will feel better with time.

When i c/o from A to V it took me 6 months, please go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Sg - once said, heal quicker than you taper.  You are really doing a wonderful job of healing, hang in there!

Thank you you're very kind.

 

What would your u define as relative stability? Thank you

 

 

I updosed about a month ago and now regret it. I have not stabilized but I have had some windows. I believe I couldve held longer and experienced the same symptoms. Its time to start tapering again and no looking back, it`s time to get off these meds and accept the fact that tapering will not be easy. If someone ever asks me my opinion on up dosing I would not recommend it.

[[bl...]]

After speaking to una Corbett at bataid one month is a very short time to stabilise it took me almost 3 and some take longer. I am glad I waited it out as tapering while unstable will not make you feel better at all.