Updosing Support Group

[[Ca...]]

Hello again

Well now my dr told me to updose even more.  Im on 5mg valium.  I updosed from 4.5 2 weeks ago but am not functioning or eating at all.  I have two young kids.  Now he wants me to updose to 7mg.  Is that going to help or mess me up more??  I just need to get stable.

I know there all different ideas on here.  I felt fine on 5mg after reinstating.  It wasn't until a big cut that things went terribly wrong.

Anybody?

Maybe...

[[po...]]

Is it too late to just go back to 5mg?  I only updosed once?  Should I do 6 today and back to 5 tomorrow or am I stuck here now?

 

[[Da...]]

Hey guys I'm getting worse and I don't know what to do. I updosed a week and a half ago and I'm getting worse by the day. My will to hang on is gone. The suffering is unbearable and I can't keep doing this.

 

I need relief now or I'm done. What do I do?

[[ka...]]

Hey guys I'm getting worse and I don't know what to do. I updosed a week and a half ago and I'm getting worse by the day. My will to hang on is gone. The suffering is unbearable and I can't keep doing this.

 

I need relief now or I'm done. What do I do?

Hey Dad, I was wondering what was the last dose you were at your baseline or what you felt was manageable stable. some find relief if they can updose to lowest dosage amount that gave them some form of stability and then they hold for a bit.

Also have you checked in with the klonopin board/thread? they have some real guru's over there as well. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=163449.0

I am so sorry you are suffering so!! hang in there, i know you can do this!!!!

[[ka...]]

Is it too late to just go back to 5mg?  I only updosed once?  Should I do 6 today and back to 5 tomorrow or am I stuck here now?

Pooky, so sorry you are not feeling any better.  That is a very hard question to answer and a very good question. I also know what it feels like to be so desperate for answers and relief! I do not have the answer to fix this, however; I know from my own experience and reading of others as well, it truly is trial and trial ( error). You may want to add a small bit back and see if it does help.

You have also made some HUGE progress since the beginning of 2017. It may also be catching up with you as well. all of that to say, you have several factors at play and your brain/body is fighting hard to stabilize and heal. Then you have the children and home to take care of.... you have a lot on you right now. I can well imagine difficult this must be. But you will get through this, You are made of strong stuff!

Do you dose only once a day?   FOR me, when i am having an extremely rough go of it. I have added a tiny amount (.02- .05ml) back right then. I did not wait until my dose time.  I know that everyone is different and i hesitate in sharing that, but it is what works for me. You are also hitting the mark where many find that they must MT from about 5mg of V. something to consider once everything settles down for you.

 

 

[[Ki...]]

I did that too Kasey and it did help. Taking a little bit of my dose during the day seemed to help me during this last major boo boo I made. Even though valium is long acting it does have a little ability to help take the edge off for some within a few hours. Its worth a try!

[[po...]]

Thank you everyone for your help.

[[no...]]

Hey guys I'm getting worse and I don't know what to do. I updosed a week and a half ago and I'm getting worse by the day. My will to hang on is gone. The suffering is unbearable and I can't keep doing this.

 

I need relief now or I'm done. What do I do?

Hi D24 Here's my advice to you below I've just posted on another thread regarding the same problem

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

Hi both  I feel so bad I'm not sure any-more which way is up, or if its worse holding BUT...I believe that thought is part withdrwal and part paranoia I've picked up from reading too much on BB at times and too many opinions based on hear say, and just repeated parrot fashion thread after thread not actual personal experience at all. Here is an indisputable truth regarding all of this, beofre I joined BB there was no way in hell I would have thought its best to cut while being this symptomatic.

 

I held through hell and high water  suffering and eventually after sometime, it worked  I stabilised and had none or barely noticeable symptoms, and felt great and loving life again. It took many months,I can't remember clearly but it was  a LONG time at the same dose maybe even a year or a bit longer of holding the same dose 'all the time feeling f-in terrible.

 

But it was so worth it in the end that long wait, and through it all I believed that as now 'I'm never going to be anything but this, stuck like this getting worse until I die never getting better.  I only got the ''I'm holding too long/held a long time and its not helping  and its not working''phobia from BB, that's right I said ''phobia'' because when I look at it logically ( in a rare moment of logical thought ) that's what its become.

 

And its made a lot worse by comparing what happening to me and how long for against others who appeared not to be taking so long to see results, or whose symptoms still allow them to get on with their life a lot better than I can. But I believe that's also the withdrawal monster putting negative thoughts into my mind, yet another ''symptom''  but we have no control over it its not intentional its a chemically controlled,we can't help or force it too stop with the best will in the world. And everyday I wrestle with the cut! cut!  do something to make it stop!! I'm not making any progress I'm getting worse!!!! mentality that's also a withdraw symptom while your this sick. 

 

But yesterday I had a return of a symptom I had when I was lower in dose before my up-dose and hold while I was cutting hoping to relive symptoms I still have now. It actually kicked off twice AFTER a cut in previously And that proves to me its STILL ongoing withdrawal from previous cuts BEFORE the up-doses and hold so I still need to hold and not have any expectation as it's all unpredictable while your waiting to stabilise however long it takes and shit will happen before you do!!!

 

I remember crying as I thought I'd never walk properly and couldn't' walk at all some days or dance ever again I was always dancing but after the long hold I went on my first holiday in year's to a yoga and meditation retreat in Cyprus and fell in love with yoga as I'd never done it before. And even as I'm sat here typing this  absolute truth the withdrawal monster is telling me all the bad stuff that this is it, its not going to get better, my pain and anxiety are still going up the wall. But I now remember I have been here before, and it was a long hold that turned me around big time before cutting at Ashton's rate fkd me up again, and doing smaller cuts in between trying to get some relief just allowed it to escalate

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[Ca...]]

Hey Nova... sorry things are still rough for you, but it sounds like your hard work towards mental solidity is paying off...

You sure are right, long holding isnt near as easy as it might sound...  And there sure are some simplistic pre-conceived ideas floating around...

I know i was a terrible long holder, but the 6ish months got me there, and gave me a safe place to learn about my own tapering and medicine peramiters...

 

Thank you for the continued information and support, that im glad I chose to consider and accept as sound concepts, in relation to my situation... (-tweaked as needed)...

And much of this you have given while facing your own extreme challenges...

-Thank You...

 

 

[[...]]

After updosing and stabilizing, how long do you wait to resume tapering?

[[Ca...]]

After updosing and stabilizing, how long do you wait to resume tapering?

Till you are SURE u r stable... so min 2weeks...?

But it more depends on your history, what lead you to that point, and how stable your stable actually is... -If things are rough, then a couple of months...

But this isnt wasted time, It is healing and solidifying time...

 

It depends a bit on how u plan to resume your taper too...

-I would hold a tad longer for a cut n hold type taper,

Or for a New DLMT...

 

Whereas for an established micro, I might just start off with a reduced cut and speed...

 

Just weigh everything up, and be a bit cautious...

 

[[no...]]

After updosing and stabilizing, how long do you wait to resume tapering?

Hi libr I knew by instinct it was time to cut again, I can't explain it but you know when your ready to cut when stable as opposed as trying to guess when your not Also when I stabilised last time I held a few months, about 8 or 9 to enjoy it after 10 year's in true tolerance withdrawal hell at my full prescribed dose.

 

Not the mythical ''holding causes tolerance withdrawal'' I don't believe that at all it just plain  old fashioned withdrawal symptoms playing out from previous cuts as there's a dodgy lag time with cuts Diazepam is notorious for it but it happens with other Benzos too. And after 3 years in withdrawal hell after going from my own happy pace  to cutting at Ashton's rates after listening to well meaning but turned out very wrong advice , I fully intend to do the same again.

 

Hold for a while enjoy the break rest the mind , body, brain, spirit  for how ever long I feel its right then go back to tapering instinctively and symptom directed  .  l had no problems doing this the last time my taper was going fine with occasional fleeting symptoms that had no negative impact on my life style at all, life was good, very very good.  Do not allow anyone to push you into cutting before you feel ready you will know when once your stable things a MUCH clearer about which way to go, how to go and when.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

hmmmm - maybe I didn't wait long enough on my updose.  I didn't want to down regulate my GABA receptors too much and I had felt great for 10 days, like almost normal - that stable. And I felt like cutting .....I did a smaller cut, but now I'm suffering again.  Usually my lag is 6 days, but this time, I didnt' feel it for 9-10 days? Any explanation for that? I'm at a loss of what to do now.  I've done larger cuts in amount and in % just a few months ago and they went almost symptom free.  I this smaller cut would be fine.  But I had updosed bc of a cut that was too big and I tried waiting it out but updosed after 6 wks of suffering.  The updose worked but maybe I didn't give it enough time to "solidify" .....not sure exactly what that even means. 

What to do now???

[[Ca...]]

Solidify... -to harden, take hold (set) or become real... -To not break easily...

[[no...]]

hmmmm - maybe I didn't wait long enough on my updose.  I didn't want to down regulate my GABA receptors too much and I had felt great for 10 days, like almost normal - that stable. And I felt like cutting .....I did a smaller cut, but now I'm suffering again.  Usually my lag is 6 days, but this time, I didnt' feel it for 9-10 days? Any explanation for that? I'm at a loss of what to do now.  I've done larger cuts in amount and in % just a few months ago and they went almost symptom free.  I this smaller cut would be fine.  But I had updosed bc of a cut that was too big and I tried waiting it out but updosed after 6 wks of suffering.  The updose worked but maybe I didn't give it enough time to "solidify" .....not sure exactly what that even means. 

What to do now???

You will still get waves and windows with an updose and a hold people are under the mistaken belief that once it works that's it or if it works then they get hit again there's something wrong, that the way Benzos work, you need to pick a dose and hold there it may take quite a while to stabilise.

 

But you will go up and  down 3 steps backwards one forward then 5 back then forward again that's how it works, you just need to hold and not put a clock or a calendar on yourself, its just not realistic to be honest, and makes you feel worse, you need to accept that that's the way it is until it settles down.

 

What ever you do with Benzos remember that its never linear, and just because you feel your going backwards does not mean healing is not going forwards or happening. 2 days ago I felt like I was dying today I'm not brilliant but I am better than I was then, and my symptoms cycle a lot. It still shocks me after all these years how in a nano second you can go from feeling good to super hell, in between and back again for absolutely no reason except that's the nature of the beast and the way Benzos healing work 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for verifying what I kind of suspected. There has been, and continues to be that window/wave pattern to this hold. I actually wasn't sure if this was something unique to me, but even then, I figured I just had to continue holding whether it is unique or not.

 

And now that the 6 month time has past, I'm going through another wave. So I'll definitely be continuing the hold. I didn't realize that this was typical of benzos at all, but its more knowledge that not only helps me "cope," but it's knowledge I think I need to be able to relay to others if the need arises. It almost feels like "Part 2" is happening now with this continuation as sx are changing, and yet they still are definitely sx of an unstable CNS.

 

I have to admit that the hold itself with these windows and waves is a stressor all by itself. When the windows occur, I'm consistently myself all day and evening, and this lasts for about a month to 6 weeks, but with that last two weeks I start slipping into a wave kind of gradually, and I don't always see it coming. And then, I'm fully in that wave, and I'm not me consistently throughout the day, and it's even hard to fully remember how good I felt during the window. And it feels kind of awful with some emotional, physical and cognitive sx.

 

I'm glad I'm here too! Thank you for saying that. I've learned a lot the hard way about benzos, and I'm glad to share what I do know.

 

 

 

http://theemergencesite.com/Images/HealingSpirals.jpg

 

 

Why Symptoms Return - How Healing Progresseshttp://theemergencesite.com/Tech/TechIssues-Healing-Spirals.htm

[[Ki...]]

And even if you do everything exactly right, you will still be in withdrawal which is no pice of cake for most of us. Patience, listening to your body and distractions are your three best friends during withdrawal

[[po...]]

kitty

How are you feeling lately from your set back?  I hope your seeing improvement.

[[Ki...]]

Pooky thank you, I really should have updosed. I dont know why I didnt. Someone removed a whole lot of valium from my blood and I should have put some extra back in. But I just had no idea how much so I waited it out. I did increase my grapefruit juice to try and build my metabolites up. I dont know how long its been but it is getting much more stable. Im back to my " normal" wd symptoms of headaches, muscle aches, sweats and the shakes. And its funny to think- but thats a good sign! Thank you!

[[yd...]]

hi buddies,

 

don't know if this is the correct forum in which to post but am desperate for some advice.  I took .5 mg Xanax rarely more than once or twice a week for anxiety.  In April I was floxed with Levaquin and had severe withdrawal sxms.  Started .5  daily with no relief.  Have seen the doctor twice since and was first on .75 daily (split over 3 doses) and now on  1 split over 3 doses. No relief sometimes I think it is getting worse.

 

I know floxing is a completely different animal and have posted in the Other Medications forum with no replies but wonder if any of you know anything about updosing due to floxing and could share.

 

thanks for any help you can offer.

 

 

 

 

 

[[po...]]

4 weeks since updose.  Still no relief.  I've heard updosing could cause a paradoxal reaction.  I had 3 good days last week but now even worse.  Bad inner tremors, shaking, constant panic anxiety, body aches, lost 15 lbs-can't eat, ears screaming.  All of this AFTER updose.  Should I start trying to micro taper off this updose?

[[Ca...]]

Hey Pooky, all too often its just WD...

For me, Things get worse before they get better, much more chaotic right before the improvment starts...

Paradoxical effects are not created in my opinion, they are not SX, you either have them (with their own special SX), -or you dont... usually when one starts a medicine...

I cant see cutting making things any better, stability is what I would be aiming for...

But as always the choice is yours...

A valium change in either direction can still be taking its toll months after the change, depending on how unstable you are...

 

That you had three good days last week is a good sign...

 

Best wishes...

[[bl...]]

Uprising does not cause a paradoxical reaction that makes no logical sense.

[[no...]]

4 weeks since updose.  Still no relief.  I've heard updosing could cause a paradoxal reaction.  I had 3 good days last week but now even worse.  Bad inner tremors, shaking, constant panic anxiety, body aches, lost 15 lbs-can't eat, ears screaming.  All of this AFTER updose.  Should I start trying to micro taper off this updose?

 

Hi pooky  its probably plain old-fashioned ongoing withdrawal  as Benzos withdrawal has a notorious lag time, and not the updose unfortunately some of us have to hold a long time before we stabilise I am in that camp myself  Its been four months after a second updose, and I'm not putting a calendar on how long its going to take beofre I stabilise as in my case I think its going to take quite a while. But it may suddenly just turn for the better sooner no one knows you just have to hang on and wait. And  some times are better, as you found out yourself but you will still get waves as its non liner until you stabilise properly I hope you find the quotes below helpful 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

After the updose my symptoms got progressively worse. My insomnia worsened, my anxiety worsened and I had a whole new set of symptoms such as depression, ruminating thoughts ('I'm never going to get better'), dry mouth at night, night sweats, waking with anxiety and hot flushes. This went on for 2 weeks and got progressively worse. Thinking that my body could not cope with such a high dose, I dropped to 19mg for a week.

 

 

If I thought I had troubles before, well this was arguably the worst week of my life! The drop made things even worse. Finally on the 18th March I made a decision to stay put on 20mg and have been doing so ever since. Slowly my symptoms subsided. After 7.5 weeks on 20mg, I'm still not happy with my sleep but it is better. All other symptoms are gone.

 

So the point I'm making is: 1) Any change in dosage, whether you go up or down, may cause unwanted symptoms.

 

This is because any change in dosage when you have a destabilized CNS is going to add to that destabilization.

 

2) If you are attempting to stabilize on one specific dose for any given period of time and you choose to alter that dose (up or down), this has a tendency to 'reset the clock' in your nervous system so that any gains you may have made with regard to withdrawal symptoms improving or subsiding before you changed the dose are kind of 'wiped out' and you have to start all over again (at least this happened with me)

 

3) It can take a long (LONG) time to stabilize so you have to be patient. Some people stabilize in a week. For other is can take months

 

. If your symptoms aren't improving or are getting worse after an updose, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need drop your dosage; in some cases it certainly does, but in mine lowering the dose made things worse. Having said that, if you're experiencing serious issues such as elevated blood pressure and headaches you do have to be careful and discern between a serious adverse reaction and plain old garden variety withdrawal symptoms. Hope this information helps in some way:)

 

 

 

Thank you for verifying what I kind of suspected. There has been, and continues to be that window/wave pattern to this hold. I actually wasn't sure if this was something unique to me, but even then, I figured I just had to continue holding whether it is unique or not.

 

And now that the 6 month time has past, I'm going through another wave. So I'll definitely be continuing the hold. I didn't realize that this was typical of benzos at all, but its more knowledge that not only helps me "cope," but it's knowledge I think I need to be able to relay to others if the need arises. It almost feels like "Part 2" is happening now with this continuation as sx are changing, and yet they still are definitely sx of an unstable CNS.

 

I have to admit that the hold itself with these windows and waves is a stressor all by itself. When the windows occur, I'm consistently myself all day and evening, and this lasts for about a month to 6 weeks, but with that last two weeks I start slipping into a wave kind of gradually, and I don't always see it coming. And then, I'm fully in that wave, and I'm not me consistently throughout the day, and it's even hard to fully remember how good I felt during the window. And it feels kind of awful with some emotional, physical and cognitive sx.

 

I'm glad I'm here too! Thank you for saying that. I've learned a lot the hard way about benzos, and I'm glad to share what I do know.

 

Your previous cuts  cuts may be catching up with you due to the well known lag time with Benzos nothing to do with the updose and perhaps a long hold may help. I'll say this again, the only way I was able to taper this far was with some long holds to settle my nervous system after trying to cut at the Ashton rate. Cutting through bad symptoms only lengthened my suffering.

 

 

 

[[Ch...]]

hi buddies,

 

don't know if this is the correct forum in which to post but am desperate for some advice.  I took .5 mg Xanax rarely more than once or twice a week for anxiety.  In April I was floxed with Levaquin and had severe withdrawal sxms.  Started .5  daily with no relief.  Have seen the doctor twice since and was first on .75 daily (split over 3 doses) and now on  1 split over 3 doses. No relief sometimes I think it is getting worse.

I know floxing is a completely different animal and have posted in the Other Medications forum with no replies but wonder if any of you know anything about updosing due to floxing and could share.

 

thanks for any help you can offer.

 

 

 

 

 

Bump

[[Ca...]]

Sorry, I had never heard the term floxed...

But I often wonder about my antibiotic history...!!

 

I had a bit of a look online, also at a site/forum "Floxie Hope"...

 

So just to check... You were tapering X? Or just taking sorta as needed?

 

Is your aim to updose to cover X wd sx?  -or more for releif from the whole floxing situation.. Though that might be splitting hairs anyway...

 

What is your SX profile??

 

I guess all i can realy say is that with updosing one tends to go back to the last stable dose...

-and the time it takes to work can vary from overnight to months...

-This probably doesnt help much...

 

If wanting to Increase the X for better releif of the floxing SX, well, the sky is the limit, but are u sure thats a path you want to go down?? And it would be too prescriptive for me to advise on that.. There may be other medicines or suppliments better suited..??

Glucosomine was one I read of in a personal recouvery story..

 

I also wory about diagnosis, and how entwined floxing and benzo WD SX could get... And recall that there might be interactions between the two types of medicines...??

 

I hope others can jump in on this too, as its all new to me...

Happy to help as best I can FWIW...

 

Best Wishes...