Updosing Support Group

[[Al...]]

Hello

 

I have just posted (below) post in the Long Hold Support Group, but it seems this might be a better place to get an answer.

 

* Apologies to those who have had to read this twice

 

I joined this community in May 2017 at 10mgs Xanax & 75mgs Zopiclone a day.

 

I dropped to 8mgs Xanax 2 weeks ago and am still on 75mgs Zopiclone.

 

These are still pretty high doses. I am hoping to taper off Xanax first, then Zopiclone.

 

Have been on both drugs for 20 years.

 

Although I've only cut 2mgs, my withdrawal side effects are making life pretty hellish.

 

Advice please? Stay at this dose for a little while longer or continue to taper.

 

* My intention was to cut every 2 weeks, which would mean I am due to cut again tomorrow.

 

I'm terrified. I'm having mild panic attacks (on top of withdrawals) every couple of hours. I'm in such a bad space atm, all I can do is lay in bed and get to the bathroom to throw up.

 

Help ...  :'(

[[no...]]

Hello

 

I have just posted (below) post in the Long Hold Support Group, but it seems this might be a better place to get an answer.

 

* Apologies to those who have had to read this twice

 

I joined this community in May 2017 at 10mgs Xanax & 75mgs Zopiclone a day.

 

I dropped to 8mgs Xanax 2 weeks ago and am still on 75mgs Zopiclone.

 

These are still pretty high doses. I am hoping to taper off Xanax first, then Zopiclone.

 

Have been on both drugs for 20 years.

 

Although I've only cut 2mgs, my withdrawal side effects are making life pretty hellish.

 

Advice please? Stay at this dose for a little while longer or continue to taper.

 

* My intention was to cut every 2 weeks, which would mean I am due to cut again tomorrow.

 

I'm terrified. I'm having mild panic attacks (on top of withdrawals) every couple of hours. I'm in such a bad space atm, all I can do is lay in bed and get to the bathroom to throw up.

 

Help ...  :'(

Hi  ATGNT 2MG is way too big a cut that’s why you've  run into trouble, its 25% of your dose, if that were me I would updose back by the 2mg back to 10mg, and hold there until stable, and do much smaller cuts based on symptoms. Don't put a time limit as to how fast you want to get off it doesn't work like that at all let you body and symptoms guide you,

 

Don't worry about tapering for a while what's important is getting yourself functional again, and holding for a while before resuming your taper and this time do much smaller cuts, and listen to your body, not other people, your body its your best guide and teacher.  And when you decided you feel strong enough to resume your taper than try say 1/4 or an 1/8 or even lower cut it best to go a slow and low as possible then hold there for a few weeks three, four at least after the cut to see how you feel than.

 

Most people succeeding are tapering very slowly small cuts using a symptom based taper , hold until symptoms die down and incorporating holds of at least 1 to 3 months between cut as Benzos have a notorious lag time for previous cuts hitting you all at once between cuts.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Al...]]

:smitten:

 

Nova, thank you so much for reaching out and throwing me a lifeline. You have no idea how grateful I am to hear from you and know I'm not losing the plot.

 

My emotions are loopy at the moment so I'm just going to give you a big virtual hug and thank you again for your advice

 

🌸🌸🌸

[[no...]]

:smitten:

 

Nova, thank you so much for reaching out and throwing me a lifeline. You have no idea how grateful I am to hear from you and know I'm not losing the plot.

 

My emotions are loopy at the moment so I'm just going to give you a big virtual hug and thank you again for your advice

 

🌸🌸🌸

Your welcome  I'm only too glad that I was able to be of help to you, and please be aware it may or may not work right away and you have may to hold it at 10mg  for a while as you can still get waves and windows while you waiting to settle so give it time to work So don't think or worry its going wrong if you still feel rough or up and down for a while that's how it works as  everything Benzos is not linear, just hold on until you stabilise again

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

[[Ge...]]

Hello

 

I have just posted (below) post in the Long Hold Support Group, but it seems this might be a better place to get an answer.

 

* Apologies to those who have had to read this twice

 

I joined this community in May 2017 at 10mgs Xanax & 75mgs Zopiclone a day.

 

I dropped to 8mgs Xanax 2 weeks ago and am still on 75mgs Zopiclone.

 

These are still pretty high doses. I am hoping to taper off Xanax first, then Zopiclone.

 

Have been on both drugs for 20 years.

 

Although I've only cut 2mgs, my withdrawal side effects are making life pretty hellish.

 

Advice please? Stay at this dose for a little while longer or continue to taper.

 

* My intention was to cut every 2 weeks, which would mean I am due to cut again tomorrow.

 

I'm terrified. I'm having mild panic attacks (on top of withdrawals) every couple of hours. I'm in such a bad space atm, all I can do is lay in bed and get to the bathroom to throw up.

 

Help ...  :'(

Hi  ATGNT 2MG is way too big a cut that’s why you've  run into trouble, its 25% of your dose, if that were me I would updose back by the 2mg back to 10mg, and hold there until stable, and do much smaller cuts based on symptoms. Don't put a time limit as to how fast you want to get off it doesn't work like that at all let you body and symptoms guide you,

 

Don't worry about tapering for a while what's important is getting yourself functional again, and holding for a while before resuming your taper and this time do much smaller cuts, and listen to your body, not other people, your body its your best guide and teacher.  And when you decided you feel strong enough to resume your taper than try say 1/4 or an 1/8 or even lower cut it best to go a slow and low as possible then hold there for a few weeks three, four at least after the cut to see how you feel than.

 

Most people succeeding are tapering very slowly small cuts using a symptom based taper , hold until symptoms die down and incorporating holds of at least 1 to 3 months between cut as Benzos have a notorious lag time for previous cuts hitting you all at once between cuts.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Yep.. What Nova said.

[[po...]]

George

How long did it take to feel stable on your updose?  Its been 4 weeks and I still have anxiety and muscle tremors.  Does stable mean no symptoms?  Im so confused about when to start cutting again.

 

[[Ge...]]

George

How long did it take to feel stable on your updose?  Its been 4 weeks and I still have anxiety and muscle tremors.  Does stable mean no symptoms?  Im so confused about when to start cutting again.

 

It took me a couple weeks to even start feeling better. and I continued to improve for about a month after that.. I would say that I have leveled out and I am 97% symptom free.  I still have ringing in my ears, but I make I worse because I have gone back to using caffeinated powders to work out... and they def aggravate the ear thing.  I've also started gaining weight rapidly and am having to break the habit of all the things I was doing to keep weight on for a while, but it's a good problem to have.  I think I went from 112 to 120 in like two weeks.  I am sleeping and functioning well.  I have occasional anxiety.  I still use propranolol but only as needed (maybe once a week) and not regularly. Yeah, I'm doing really well I think.  I am still doing the CBT+. 

 

You have gone from 2-4 mg of Xanax to 5 mg Valium in a very short period of time.  I'm not surprised you are still having symptoms. You might need to hold for a very long time or even updose more.  I hope you get to feeling better soon.  <3

[[po...]]

I really ned to gain weight.  What were you doing to help that?

Also if Im starting to have windows and feel a little better does that mean the updose could be starting to stabilize me?

My sig might be confusing

I was fast tapered 4 weeks off clonazepam.  I didn't reinstate until after being off 4 weeks in acute.  We tried 5mg valium and it worked. I totally stabilized 100% in one week.

[[Ge...]]

I really ned to gain weight.  What were you doing to help that?

Also if Im starting to have windows and feel a little better does that mean the updose could be starting to stabilize me?

My sig might be confusing

I was fast tapered 4 weeks off clonazepam.  I didn't reinstate until after being off 4 weeks in acute.  We tried 5mg valium and it worked. I totally stabilized 100% in one week.

 

I doubled my calorie intake by adding a lot of fat to my diet.. I still could only stop the losing I didn't gain until I stabilized.  Yeah sounds like you might be getting better. yay!

[[Ki...]]

Yeah thats super fast, I was on around .5 X and some ambien and I crossed to 11 mg valium over 3 months and had symptoms the whole time. I think if I had done what you did I would feel like you do or worse. Most people seem to go back to where they felt ok last or add in 10% or so before they feel stable. I wish you luck!

[[po...]]

But thats what doesn't makes sense.  I reinstated at 5mg after being off for 4 weeks in acute.  Within days I felt completely normal and continued to feel normal while tapering until I made that bad cut and updosed.  Anyone who hears my story can't believe I stabilized at 5mg in the beginning.  It makes me wonder had that dr not 4 week tapered me, and had I known what I know now.  I might have been one of the lucky one to get off easy.  Im so kindled now.  Today was week 5 of my updose.  Im definitely doing better than a few weeks ago by ALOT.  But as I type this I have inner tremors through my whole body right now and a slight feeling of detachment.  I took my kids to the zoo today.  My first big outing.  I wonder if thats why I feel funny.  I hope Im stabilizing.

[[Va...]]

But thats what doesn't makes sense.  I reinstated at 5mg after being off for 4 weeks in acute.  Within days I felt completely normal and continued to feel normal while tapering until I made that bad cut and updosed.  Anyone who hears my story can't believe I stabilized at 5mg in the beginning.  It makes me wonder had that dr not 4 week tapered me, and had I known what I know now.  I might have been one of the lucky one to get off easy.  Im so kindled now.  Today was week 5 of my updose.  Im definitely doing better than a few weeks ago by ALOT.  But as I type this I have inner tremors through my whole body right now and a slight feeling of detachment.  I took my kids to the zoo today.  My first big outing.  I wonder if thats why I feel funny.  I hope Im stabilizing.

The pattern you describe sure sounds like you're reaching stability to me. If you are having windows or periods of lessening sxs, it's definitely an indication that your CNS is calming down. Congrats on getting out with your kids! 

[[po...]]

That you Valley

I pray you are right.

After your long hold and you stabilized....Were you "symptom Free" before you started your taper again or did you have a few lingering annoying symptoms?  Im just trying to figure out when it will be the right time to start tapering.

Also are you still doing good?

[[Va...]]

That you Valley

I pray you are right.

After your long hold and you stabilized....Were you "symptom Free" before you started your taper again or did you have a few lingering annoying symptoms?  Im just trying to figure out when it will be the right time to start tapering.

Also are you still doing good?

Prior to holding i was living in an alternate universe and am pretty sure I had most of the sxs listed by Ashton. After my hold I knew I was stable although I had some lingering depression and apathy. Those lifted when I started to slowly taper again. I'm still doing well although not symptom free I have been working out in the gym for 3 months (hurt my shoulder though so now I have to,deal with that lol), working, living life pretty close to fully. There are those times when I get some vertigo, dizzyness, apathy, etc. but only to a minor degree which doesn't interfere with life. I have even had periods of 100% windows which helps to keep me motivated as it feels so good to actually be normal. I continue to adjust the way I taper as needed.  --V

[[...]]

Pooky- looks like you almost doubled your cut rate which may be what sent you into a wave. I'm glad the updose is finally working. I'm hitting a wall at about the same level from the same mistake of increasing my cut size.  Kicking myself for it.  And, we may have all gotten off easy if we knew we had to taper so slowly from the beginning, but none of us knew that until we tapered a regular amt and got slammed.  What's your plan after you stabilize?

 

George- just realized you're a woman.

How did you decide how much to updose by? I guess 1 to 2 didn't help? How did you choose to go up to 4?  I find it so hard to know how much to updose by- going to the last stable level doesn't work well for me bc my cuts are small so the last stable level is a small increase.

 

Is 10% a good rule then for updosing?

 

 

V Um- how did you manage to hold for those 5 months feeling so symptomatic? Like, practically, how did you do it??  Interesting that some lingering symptoms lifted AFTER you then started tapering? What's your theory on that?  Do you think the stimulus from going down got the body to heal more?

[[Ki...]]

It seems to me that if someone feels better once they start tapering after holding a long time their brains have caught up to the drug dose, finally (yay!) and are getting side effects of the drug itself more than the withdrawal. Does that sound logical?

[[po...]]

Im in my 5th week of a hold after the bad cut and updose.  I definitely have more good days than bad.  Yesterday the pharmacy messed up my liquid valium and gave me one from another manufacturer and I freaked.  I had them call around and find one made by Roxanne labs.  When I brought it home I realized its at least a year old but the expiration date is not until next year.  nevertheless I'm still all worked up thinking this is going to be bad which is bringing symptoms.  I think it tastes weaker.  Builder is assuring me its fine but my mind is on the merry-go-round from hell and I can't stop it.

 

Lier you asked what my plan is after the hold...Im going to start REALLY small and DMT .005mg for a week then hold and see what happens then do it again.  Then maybe increase to .01 a day so Im not tapering for 5 years.  I heard some really good successful stories of people who went this slow and healed on the way down and slid off with nothing.  I am PRAYING that will be me.  But I just don't feel stable enough to start.  How stable is stable is my question?  I have loud ear ringing and inner tremors on and off.  And on and off as opposed to just two weeks ago it was unending agony.

 

Kitty I like your theory on feeling better after cutting after a long hold.  Are you feeling better yet?

[[...]]

Kitty- I definitely feel w/d effects and side effects as different symptoms. If I'm having mostly only side effects and I cut, those side effects go away for a while and I feel better.  Yes, I do think this means you've caught up. For me a big side effect is spaciness. But I've also noticed if the spaciness comes too soon after a cut, it means I've cut too much and need to slow down. I used to think it meant all was well and I could cut faster but that has proven wrong twice now.

But when ppl say they have bad sxs and cut and feel better, I think they mean side effects get better, not w/d effects. But who knows really??

[[Ge...]]

 

 

George- just realized you're a woman.

How did you decide how much to updose by? I guess 1 to 2 didn't help? How did you choose to go up to 4?  I find it so hard to know how much to updose by- going to the last stable level doesn't work well for me bc my cuts are small so the last stable level is a small increase.

 

Is 10% a good rule then for updosing?

 

 

 

 

I tried updosing from 1.5 to 2 on my own... but that was not enough. My Dr recommended 3.5 or 4 after I showed her my whole taper schedule.  I did 3.5 for a few days then just went ahead and went to 4.  I doubt a 10% increase is enough to correct when things get really bad.  25% was not enough for me.

[[Ki...]]

I have never felt better when tapering, just when holding, but thats probably because I metabolize too fast anyway. I did a 2 week hold to go on a 10 day trip and after I got back and resumed taper even at my tiny rate I still got cns nerve jangles and insomnia around day 5. Its been a bit of a mess since the plasma thing and BOY do I wish I had updosed. Well it would not have been an updose just a replacement lol! But thanks for the kind words. Its just not been as consistent as before the boo boo and Im slowing my taper rate to sloth/turtle speed instead of just turtle.

[[Ca...]]

It seems to me that if someone feels better once they start tapering after holding a long time their brains have caught up to the drug dose, finally (yay!) and are getting side effects of the drug itself more than the withdrawal. Does that sound logical?

sorry, I tried to get my head around it.. But i couldnt apply your theory to a situation without more -"what ifs" popping up...

The best I could say is that its quite possible, probable even... More so if the "good days" last, and arent just a window of change...

I cut last time because (one reason in many) I thought the V was getting too sedating... -I think I was rather wrong...!! But so many WD SX had left.. So I might have been at MY stable..??

 

I hope you are getting a break...

And I know I wont be donating plasma!!! Omg..!! -what a ride this is...

 

Best wishes...

 

Trivia:

It took a month post 50% cut for the "real good" WD SX to hit, and I had some fantastic days after a couple of weeks...

 

I had Drs today... hadnt slept, couldnt function... -Rescue dosed back the 50% to 2V, It started to work in an hour, and I was doing fine within 2-3 hrs...  deep sleep once home 6hrs later, woke after 2hrs... -feel fine...

That was my first V rescue dose in months... I wasnt sure it would work quick this long after a cut (5wks)...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ki...]]

Fingers crossed that rescue dose does the trick and keeps on working!

[[Ca...]]

Fingers crossed that rescue dose does the trick and keeps on working!

Thanks... yes it worked great to get me through... Back to my normal dose now, to keep plodding on... -as we do...

 

[[...]]

It's so nice to see this board. Seems like updosing is frowned upon, but sometimes you're sinking fast and need a way out.  I'm going up quite a bit and hoping to regain the function I had there.  I was dealing with not having much function but the really hard thing is that when you're non-functional and it gets worse, well worse than non-functional is you're so bad you think about ways to end it. So to give myself some margin and not get into that dangerous territory, I plan to go up to the last place I had some decent function and stabilize and go down slowly enough to not lose function again.  I was of the mind to get this over as quickly as possibie and it was going ok until I suddenly crashed and burned for no apparent reason except that symptoms had been getting worse when I looked back on it.  I should have heeded the warning.

[[Ki...]]

That sounds like a very good plan!