3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[St...]]

Dr is only sending on one more script and wants me to rapid taper off my last 3mg and i'm nervous. Wants me to do 3mg for 3 days, 2mg for 3 days, 1mg for 3 days then STOP. This is so unfair. She also keeps telling me I can't be experiencing interdose with valium and i'm telling her BUT I AM!!! I want desperately to be done too but I also don't want to crash. Ugh any advice?

[[wi...]]

Dr is only sending on one more script and wants me to rapid taper off my last 3mg and i'm nervous. Wants me to do 3mg for 3 days, 2mg for 3 days, 1mg for 3 days then STOP. This is so unfair. She also keeps telling me I can't be experiencing interdose with valium and i'm telling her BUT I AM!!! I want desperately to be done too but I also don't want to crash. Ugh any advice?

 

No way! You've already well established that you are sensitive. At least reference the Ashton protocol and tell her that the last 3mg is a 6 week process.. but, even past that, I think you should consider finding a benzo - aware doctor who will help you off the last 3mg. Your Dr must be assuming you are just a neurotic person who is just dragging it out, even though you are actually trying your best.

[[St...]]

Dr is only sending on one more script and wants me to rapid taper off my last 3mg and i'm nervous. Wants me to do 3mg for 3 days, 2mg for 3 days, 1mg for 3 days then STOP. This is so unfair. She also keeps telling me I can't be experiencing interdose with valium and i'm telling her BUT I AM!!! I want desperately to be done too but I also don't want to crash. Ugh any advice?

 

No way! You've already well established that you are sensitive. At least reference the Ashton protocol and tell her that the last 3mg is a 6 week process.. but, even past that, I think you should consider finding a benzo - aware doctor who will help you off the last 3mg. Your Dr must be assuming you are just a neurotic person who is just dragging it out, even though you are actually trying your best.

 

Unfortunately thats what I think she thinks and you're so right I am doing the very best I can. I am definitely going to advocate for the Ashton Method as to keep my script going then hopefully find a benzo-wise doc to help me. I'm 70% done with this taper and will be devastated if I have to start over. She is so non-sympathetic and its to my detriment. Thank you oh so much for your advice. I know the end is rough for most notoriously so i'm not expecting it to be perfect but at least I was back showering eating moving around and even driving short distances with my husband in the car! All of that progress will be wiped away if i'm forced to speed up.

[[wi...]]

Jumped off 1mg of diazapam 4 days ago feeling like absolute hell. Only been on them 9 weeks started on 5 mg been gradually tapering. Only got about 24 of 2 mg left. Psych won’t give me any more. Do you think should start back on 1 mg  then taper  down  to 0.5 then 0,25 with what I have left. Feels like I’m in hell was only on them few weeks. Would going lower lessen the withdrawal symptoms. Had been cutting 1 mg every couple weeks but didn’t feel like this. Don’t want get addicted but can’t cope feeling like this.

 

You could try reinstating at .5mg and then taper down to .25mg or less. My whole 2 month journey has been to get off 1.25mg of valium. I've been going down .2mg at a time. On .2mg now and going to jump soon..

[[he...]]

So hard to know right thing to do. Have been feeling quite depressed is that normal coming off. Sadly can’t take AD’s  tried 4 different ones they all make symptoms lot worse. I might try  0.5 mg see how get on then. Seemed the lower I got the worse I felt..

 

Depression is very normal in a taper, and it tends to be higher on Valium than other benzos. I'm on Klonopin and have had major depression over the whole thing. The benzo changes your thinking and makes everything look bleak and hopeless. Remember it's all a lie your benzo-injured brain is telling you.

[[wi...]]

Jumped at .2mg four days ago. Not feeling very good actually, although was fine for a few days. It's nothing awful, just irritability and a hard time sleeping, kind of a manic feeling, hard to calm down. Hoping it lets up pretty soon. Not great but I think .2mg is okay to jump from.

[[wi...]]

Need advice I jumped diazapam at 1mg about 10 days ago feel absolutely awful. Am wondering if I should maybe reinstate at a low dose then taper slower. Went from 5 mg to 1 mg in 9 weeks,  Have only got limited supply but got enough if start at 1.25 , then 1.  then 0.5 say every 3 weeks or so. Just feeling awful not just anxiety almost like panic attacks, chest tightness, so thinking hopefully slower taper might ease things. I took them as had severe reaction to the flu jab, think probably still got some in my system, just don’t want to reinstate then still get same symptoms. I felt OK on it, jyst kept getting told by psych to come off asap. Haven’t eaten a proper meal in a week, so figure worth trying?

 

If you reinstate, stick with it, not just for one day. Something tricky about valium is that the half life is approximately 100 hours factoring in active metabolites. So someone taking 5mg a day actually eventually has 15-20mg running through their system after a couple weeks. So likewise when you reinstate it needs to build up in the body again. It is best to make firm decisions with benzos because going up and down destabilizes the body even more

[[wi...]]

I’ve reinstated at 2.5 mg worked out a schedule going taper much slower about every 3-4 weeks, get diwn to maybe 0.25 mg. I think it is helping, although everyone very anti it, figure after 4 years of waiting with no improvement worth a try. Think at end of the day everyone is different and we have do what is right for us. I was inspired by success story where a lady did that and was fine.

 

Makes sense to me, if you feel more comfortable and better and are willing to take the time

[[ho...]]

I’ve reinstated at 2.5 mg worked out a schedule going taper much slower about every 3-4 weeks, get diwn to maybe 0.25 mg. I think it is helping, although everyone very anti it, figure after 4 years of waiting with no improvement worth a try. Think at end of the day everyone is different and we have do what is right for us. I was inspired by success story where a lady did that and was fine.

 

I just wanted to warn you of the high % of cuts you would have to make to achieve that goal.  This “could” be problematic when cutting and making sx unbearable.  Taking into consideration the longer you are on a benzo, even at low doses, the body develops the dependency to the drug.  2mg doesn’t sound like much, and cutting doesn’t sound like much, but it can be.  For example.  I am at 1.85mg and can only comfortably cut ~7%per month, so over the next month my reduction will only go from 1.85 to 1.70.  This would keep me on benzo’s for an extended period of time, obviously.  However, I just can NOT cut faster or I get so sick.

 

From what I read you had passed the 10 day point and unless you are in complete chaos, if it were me, I would not reinstate.  This is brutal just getting off the last 2 mg of V.  If you really need to reinstate and feel you need to wean, may I suggest a lower mg to reinstate with.  I just don’t want to see you get trapped in a longer weaning process than you need to be.

 

Marie 

[[Be...]]

Presently at 3 mg Valium (I need to change my counter), and leaving a placeholder here. Starting a microtaper soon. Took forever to get here, but here I am. It's getting harder the lower I get. ETA: Counter updated! 

[[Li...]]

Congratulations on reaching 3mg, BenzoLottie.  To learn more about why some individuals find it more difficult to make reductions as they get lower in dose, here’s a video featuring Mark Horowitz (see Note). Although he’s talking about tapering antidepressants, the concepts/principles also apply to tapering benzodiazepines.

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

Note: Mark Horowitz, MBBS PhD is currently a training psychiatrist working as a Clinical Research Fellow in the National Health Service. He completed a PhD in the neurobiology of depression and the pharmacology of antidepressants at King’s College London.  He recently co-authored a paper debunking the ‘chemical imbalance’ (serotonin) theory of depression.

[[Be...]]

Congratulations on reaching 3mg, BenzoLottie.  To learn more about why some individuals find it more difficult to make reductions as they get lower in dose, here’s a video featuring Mark Horowitz.

 

Thanks. I pretty much know the why. my former state-provided telehealth Peer (She left after getting her Masters), had prepared me for this. She told me to get a scale and a few other things for tapering smaller amounts. And Bob7 previously told me an easy way to calculate reductions. My current Peer who visits me at home, has offered his help. There are others who found it harder as they got lower. Winniedog and howmanytimes are two I knew from the Valium topic that are now posting here. I just can't sit through an almost 1 hour video, I struggle to get through TV shows. My mind keeps racing, looping thoughts, like a computer I can't shut off. In a nutshell, tapering is taking away more and more of the benzo, the GABA receptors are slowly upregulating, but they won't really recover until one is off. Then, as Heather Ashton herself has said, is when the real healing begins. There isn't a homeostasis between GABA and Glutamate, we have Glutamate Excitotoxicity, more symptoms. It's like our brain and nervous system are in overdrive. Everything is misfiring. Thanks for the video suggestion, though. 

[[Li...]]

I hear you about not being able watch long videos so have included time stamps for the key sections below.  Horowitz’s research focuses on the neurobiology of withdrawal — specifically brain imaging that demonstrates a hyperbolic relationship between doses of psychiatric drugs and receptor occupancy and the implications this relationship has for tapering such drugs.

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

20:30 introduction to the concept of hyperbolic tapering

27:16 discussion of dependence and withdrawal

49:42 main take home messages by Horowitz

[Guest [...]]

Libertas

 

This is such a generous thing to do!

 

I wanted to watch, but felt like Benzolottie - too long.

 

BL

 

Welcome to the under 3mg club.

I’m having a tough time!

 

I’m going a snails pace and struggling.

As I dose 3 times a day, I may have to get a better scale.

Will cross that bridge when I get closer

 

My main problem is my neck pain, and the nerves all in my head, they’re firing off everywhere, all the time.

 

We’ll get each other through this.

 

Hugs

Winnie

 

 

[[Be...]]

I hear you about not being able watch long videos so have included time stamps for the key sections below. 

 

Thank you, that was easier. Diazepam has built-in self-tapering, as Colin has pointed out. BB member Joeb was steadily doing 25 mg down to the end, before stepping off. I'm hoping a microtaper will be easier than a cut and hold. OregonKatz did this getting off the last few mg. And this was what my telehealth Peer recommended. I won't hit that peak about a week after cutting, it'll be a more gradual reduction. Some people can do cut and hold until stepping off, some need to gradually reduce daily. And incremental, daily, reductions is where I'm heading.

[[Be...]]

BL

 

Welcome to the under 3mg club.

I’m having a tough time!

 

I’m going a snails pace and struggling.

As I dose 3 times a day, I may have to get a better scale.

Will cross that bridge when I get closer

 

My main problem is my neck pain, and the nerves all in my head, they’re firing off everywhere, all the time.

 

We’ll get each other through this.

 

Hugs

Winnie

 

Yes, I am here! Tada!   

 

I'm only dosing once a day, at bedtime.

 

Have had the nerves in head causing anything from tingling to a headache. It's been wayyyyy down. Headaches are transient if I do get them. My main problem has been GI issues and the paresthesia, which is mostly in my face. I think they are connected, as the paresthesia gets worse after eating. It gets worse as the day goes by too. Peaks in the evening. 

 

I have been experimenting with NAD+ nasal spray. I do think it is helping. Finally started a discussion about it. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=275902.msg3440970#msg3440970

 

back at ya!

[Guest [...]]

Good stuff, I’ll look at it!

 

I’m also freezing all the time!

 

I’m so afraid as the booster ruined my collagen, so I seem to have a lot of cervical instability!

 

COVID didn’t help it either.

 

Might hold for a week!

 

I’ll decide Monday.

 

Today was a 💩 y day. 

 

I have bad trigeminal and occipital neuralgia issues from the vax too, which this process has made much worse.

 

I’m kind of scared that means I won’t ever heal! 😭

 

Take my buddy!

 

Winnie

[[Be...]]

Oh my goodness, Winnie!

I'm so sorry you're having all that.

 

I suffered for years from Occipital Neuralgia, had cervical spinal issues following my auto accident in 1993, which landed me on disability. Drunk driver hit me, I went airborne over a service island, and hit a parked van in front of my mechanic's service center. If the van wasn't there, I'm sure I would have gone through the plate glass window. I was seeing an orthopedist who found out I have bi-lateral hip dysplasia and a mild form of spinal stenosis. The headaches started getting really bad about two years after the accident, and I was on opiate pain medication. I ended up using fentanyl patches. I asked my doctor for a referral to a neurologist who diagnosed the headaches as being ON. He gave me tips, wanted me to wean off the fentanyl and go down to something less strong. While I did manage to reduce them from screaming agony to a dull roar most of the time (I bought a big gel ice wrap and plopped it on my head), they persisted.

 

I moved to another state, doctor I was seeing here, sent me to pain management. Saw a physiatrist there who turned out to be one of the top 100 pain management doctors in the US. I had lidocaine injections, a series of three, and a nerve conduction/EMG done. I was an excellent candidate for Radio-Frequency Nerve Ablation. Had that done in the cervical and left occipital area (my headaches were all on the left side of my head), and after years of suffering, finally got relief. Headache free until I had to taper off these crappy benzos I was abusively prescribed (because doctor basically committed malpractice and a lawsuit was in progress, until hospital system who employed her failed to provide me with her medical records under federal HIPPA rules). I was doing the same thing as I did before, ice packs. Ice just numbs the pain.

 

I'm cold all the time too, I have space heaters I use along with the heat pump. I sit in the living room with one blowing hot air at me. I had new insulation put in the attic two days ago, it dropped in the 20's last night. The heat pump actually kept the house at near normal, it struggled prior to this. I wear a casual, zip front hooded robe over my clothes to keep warm. Hard to regulate body temperature.

 

Regarding the NAD+, I noticed on the bpc 157 thread you are considering trying that. Just don't try both at the same time, experiment with one and see how you feel. Just so you know which is working and which is not. I also recall you tend to be sensitive to many things.

 

I know I've tried my share of suggested supplements that didn't work. NAC? I couldn't take the nausea. Lavender? A single dose sent me to hell. It's supposed to calm you down, help with sleep. It revved me up big time. Worst. Mistake, Ever. That's why I was so cautious about NAD+. I'm not convinced enough about bpc 157, it concerns me that the OP of that thread ended up stopping it, and so did HAM. Though both are reconsidering trying it again.

 

I'm stuck holding before I start my DMT, 1) The seller I ordered the nail file from cancelled my order, I ordered from another. Can't file pills without that. 2) I'm not sure I'm ready yet. I can handle up to 3 weeks holding, but then I feel worse. Making small cuts actually helps. 

 

All these w/d plus other health issues  is enough to make you 

 

We will somehow survive all this. I'm just  this happened to me, and to others.

 

Hang in there, Winnie! 

[[ho...]]

I hear you about not being able watch long videos so have included time stamps for the key sections below. 

 

Thank you, that was easier. Diazepam has built-in self-tapering, as Colin has pointed out. BB member Joeb was steadily doing 25 mg down to the end, before stepping off. I'm hoping a microtaper will be easier than a cut and hold. OregonKatz did this getting off the last few mg. And this was what my telehealth Peer recommended. I won't hit that peak about a week after cutting, it'll be a more gradual reduction. Some people can do cut and hold until stepping off, some need to gradually reduce daily. And incremental, daily, reductions is where I'm heading.

 

Congratulations on getting to under here!  We made it! I am not on BB’s very often, but I do lurk occasionally and post.

 

I do think that the daily taper is so much better, and if it’s dry or liquid or a combo like I am doing ( eventually I will be just liquid) it just isn’t so drastic.  It took me a few try’s to get it right, but at found what worked for me.  Hopefully this works well for you

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

Good stuff, I’ll look at it!

 

I’m also freezing all the time!

 

I’m so afraid as the booster ruined my collagen, so I seem to have a lot of cervical instability!

 

COVID didn’t help it either.

 

Might hold for a week!

 

I’ll decide Monday.

 

Today was a 💩 y day. 

 

I have bad trigeminal and occipital neuralgia issues from the vax too, which this process has made much worse.

 

I’m kind of scared that means I won’t ever heal! 😭

 

Take my buddy!

 

Winnie

 

 

Hi!  It has been a while.  So nice to see you over here. YAY 

 

I am sorry you aren’t feeling well and that the booster is giving you so much trouble  :'(

 

Hope to catch up.

 

 

Marie

[[Be...]]

 

Congratulations on getting to under here!  We made it! I am not on BB’s very often, but I do lurk occasionally and post.

 

I do think that the daily taper is so much better, and if it’s dry or liquid or a combo like I am doing ( eventually I will be just liquid) it just isn’t so drastic.  It took me a few try’s to get it right, but at found what worked for me.  Hopefully this works well for you

 

Marie

 

I take breaks now and then, especially if my one provider or my Peer suggest doing so. Still experimenting with NAD+, I do think it is helping, like it did with benzoito.

 

I'm going to stick with a dry cut, Bob7 explained it all to me, and I watched a video many suggest on BB, of a guy doing the dry cut method filing the pills. I'm hoping to be able to reduce by around .5 mg a month still.  Have been okay doing that since the beginning of 2023. I actually cut by .66 prior, but that got too hard.  Joeb did a cut-and-hold of .25 mg to get off the last few milligrams. I realize I can no longer do cut-and-hold. Oregonkatz experience convinced me to do a DMT. I like the idea of it being a more gradual reduction, my body isn't getting slammed halfway through like the cuts did. Nail file should arrive soon, I'll be weighing, filing, weighing. A compounding pharmacy in my kitchen.   

[[ho...]]

 

Congratulations on getting to under here!  We made it! I am not on BB’s very often, but I do lurk occasionally and post.

 

I do think that the daily taper is so much better, and if it’s dry or liquid or a combo like I am doing ( eventually I will be just liquid) it just isn’t so drastic.  It took me a few try’s to get it right, but at found what worked for me.  Hopefully this works well for you

 

Marie

 

I take breaks now and then, especially if my one provider or my Peer suggest doing so. Still experimenting with NAD+, I do think it is helping, like it did with benzoito.

 

I'm going to stick with a dry cut, Bob7 explained it all to me, and I watched a video many suggest on BB, of a guy doing the dry cut method filing the pills. I'm hoping to be able to reduce by around .5 mg a month still.  Have been okay doing that since the beginning of 2023. I actually cut by .66 prior, but that got too hard.  Joeb did a cut-and-hold of .25 mg to get of the last few milligrams. I realize I can no longer do cut-and-hold. Oregonkatz experience convinced me to do a DMT. I like the idea of it being a more gradual reduction, my body isn't getting slammed halfway through like the cuts did. Nail file should arrive soon, I'll be weighing, filing, weighing. A compounding pharmacy in my kitchen.   

 

Hi-  I think that is great.  Whatever works, and it will keep you busy too.  I bought a scale and file (just in case).  The cut and holds just got too hard for me and when I finally switched to the micro and figured out my % it has worked out so much better.  I still screw up every couple of months..ugh.  Lol.  Anyway, I hope you find the best path forward and you have success 

 

We can do this…We made it to the 3mg and under!!! For me it took a long time, but I made it .  So I know, one day I will gently walk off of this benzo nightmare …We all will 

 

Marie

[[Be...]]

 

Whatever works, and it will keep you busy too. 

 

I'm hoping it doesn't overwhelm me. Autism and all. I'd rather be busy doing other stuff. It is what it is. I'll be taking another break from BB. Family (a death) and personal (ongoing legal stuff) that I have to deal with. Life goes on, and on, and on... Catch you when we are both back here again. Take care! 

[[ho...]]

 

Whatever works, and it will keep you busy too. 

 

I'm hoping it doesn't overwhelm me. Autism and all. I'd rather be busy doing other stuff. It is what it is. I'll be taking another break from BB. Family (a death) and personal (ongoing legal stuff) that I have to deal with. Life goes on, and on, and on... Catch you when we are both back here again. Take care! 

 

I am sorry to hear you lost a family member, that is always so hard.  Also, I can relate to legal matters. Ugh.  Take care, and I will see you when you return at some point, or I return at some point. 

 

Marie

[[On...]]

Good evening all. I’m down to 0.62mg split into 2 doses 12 hours apart. I’m going really slow because I’m sensitive to the reductions but am sleeping well and functional enough to hold down a full-time job. I get tired very easily but if I pace myself I manage. Just wanted to say ‘hi’.