Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[an...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

I am glad you are feeling better Rdb.  Pickled beets sound wonderful!!

[[sh...]]

Sharkey,

 

I have 5mg and 10mg tablets. 

 

I have been dosing:

 

12.mg-morning  2.5-noon  2.5-late afternoon 30mg at night (trying to avoid insomnia as long as possible)

 

I would like to use the Oraplus solution. I cannot use Vodka.

 

Also, how would I go about preparing a two week dose?

 

Do I spread the liquid dose throughout the day or just take it once?

 

Did you have a ledger?

 

wily,

 

If you crushed up a 5mg pill and added to 50ml of oral plus.  Each 1ml=0.1mg.  You could reduce by 1ml/.1mg a day which means you would be reducing 5mg every 50 days.  Once you get use to the process, you could speedup or slow down based on how you feel.  If i were you, I would alternate between the morning and evening doses, for example:

 

Use liquid for only the tapering portion of your dose,  take the rest in pill form

12mg  2.5mg 2.5mg  25mg,Tapering Suspension(5mg/50ml)

Reducing 1ml a day for 50 days, then

10mg,Tapering Suspension(5mg/50ml)  2.5mg  2.5mg  25mg

Reducing 1ml a day for 50 days, then

10mg  2.5mg  2.5mg 20mg,Tapering Suspension(5mg/50ml)

Reducing 1ml a day for 50 days, then

And so on...

 

This rate would probably work well until you get to lower doses.  Again, you can adjust the speed based on how you are feeling.  As far as making 2 weeks worth.  I wouldn't do that much at a time just because valium/ora plus would be a suspension not a solution.  if you do make large batches make sure you are stirring and shaking the suspension before you take each dose. 

 

5 days worth would be 25mg in 250ml of oraplus.

 

Let me know what questions you have!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[ga...]]

A very easy way to get a link to your pics with url is downloading Imagelink.

You can click on any picture you have on your tab and just copy the link it makes.

All you'd have to do is use the Mona Lisa icon and past it between the brackets in the middle.

 

Thanks, Moodle. I'm going to have to check that out! Weebly has gotten annoyingly complicated in the past few years.

[[...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

Way to go, Rose!!! Good for you.  I'm super glad for ya 

 

Jeff

 

Thanks a lot Jeff, you hang in there and prayers for you and your wife

[[...]]

Doodle Dog,  I'm so sorry you had to go through that. How frightening. Damn benzos I hope you are doing better today   It stinks, never knowing what the day is going to be like, what W/D symptom will we deal with today? I know I have been needing to pull some beets to can pickled beets, and for three days now I have been too fatigued, am aiming for today now. Even though you aren't cutting at the moment, you are probally dealing with some tolerance W/D. Anyway, have a good day, Rose

 

Hi Rose,

 

Thanks so much.  Isn't that the truth that when cutting one does not know how they will feel from one day to the next.

 

Yes, I wasn't tolerating the liquid too well and went back on my pills.  I felt better for a couple of days then the tolerance thing started happening.

 

Today I still had lots of anxiety but the shortness of breath thing went away, so I was able to be productive.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

Hi doodle, Are you feeling better today I hope? wish you the best!

[[...]]

Hi,

I have been dry cutting off diazepam off 60mg of Diazepam at 2.5 mg intervals. Got to 47.5 and the withdrawal is too severe. Want to go to liquid titration. Looking for a smoother cut. I switched slowly from Ativan, but the ups and downs are just too much. I don't care about time or how long. More concerned with not damaging my body and life. I need links and plans and any input.

 

SG57 is my hero. I have other issues. I need help. Thank you.

 

Hi Willi72,

I also wanted to welcome you to the group. I think you will find this group mostly focusing on the positive and the solutions, Rose

[[...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

That is great news!!!

Thrilled for you that you are feeling better.

 

You are way ahead of me with canning. I'm just starting to think of peaches!!

 

 

 

Marija 🌺

 

Hi Marija,

    How are you today? Feeling stable I hope. Ha, I just learned a new canning recipe for peaches, you add a vanilla bean to the simmering syrup! I'm going to have to buy more peaches now . Hope your day is going well and hang in there, Rose

[[...]]

OK, now I'm in line for math help. What I need is someone to check my math.

 

I keep 4x6 cards with my tapering schedule. I figured out where I am and what pace I want to set and then tried to do the math to set that pace. At the top of the card is my figuring for my start with converting all of my dose to the equivalence in Xanax. And then I came up with what a daily cut would be if I were reducing by 10%/month. That's shown at the top as full strength Xanax.

 

On the card, I have my Librium+Xanax combination. The Xanax is shown in its 10% dilution. Based on my figures, I'm cutting .02 of the X dilution per day. It's not the full 10%/month cut, but it's a simple cut and a cautious start. (There's one day I cut one dose and redistribute another dose, so that day looks odd.)

 

Here's my taper plan as of right now. Did I do the math right??

 

http://jgardnerscollection.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/6/2/56621493/8713619_orig.jpg

 

Hi Gardener, Hope you are feeling good today. Looking at your taper schedule, boy you do a lot of work!

[[...]]

Hi BB,

    Just an update on progress. I am now at .405mg and it has been a bit slower than I had hoped it would be, reducing at .0025 per cut.  I have found that with this MT I have to hold for about 2-2 and half days for my brain to re-adjust and settle down. With each cut the W/D symptoms act up again, tinnitus, knee joint pain, arm numbness and the horrible sweats. I hate the hot feeling and sweats. So it seems to be true thus far, the smaller the dose, the more sensitive I am, however I am continuing to push through knowing I will feel better in a day or so. Still, MT is SO much easier on me than C+H. Wish you all well with your MT.                                                                                                                                                        Rose

 

Hi Shannon,

    How is your recovery going? Are you still feeling better with three doses? Your nephew reminds me of our two nephews. My husband had to retire after 30 yrs of being an electrician. He broke his neck, vertebrae 3,4, and 5 from a car accident when he was 25 or so, but he was still able to work after he healed. He got arthritis and vertebral degeneration really bad and in 2009 they put a titanium plate in the back of his neck. Needless to say he has severe chronic pain and is on long acting morphine. One weekend after a fam reunion 2 nephews stopped by to shower and later my husband noticed the last few pills of morphine were missing, made for an uncomfortable situation. The trust is a bummer issue now . Have a great weekend, Rose

 

Hi Rose,

 

thanks for the update. It is so good you are making progress. the symptoms are a real pain an the butt, but at least they are predictable at this point, and you seem to recover after each cut. One day, in the not so distant future, you will be off these and heal fully. I'm excited for you. keep on keeping on

 

Shan

[Guest [Ma...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

That is great news!!!

Thrilled for you that you are feeling better.

 

You are way ahead of me with canning. I'm just starting to think of peaches!!

 

 

Marija 🌺

 

Hi Marija,

    How are you today? Feeling stable I hope. Ha, I just learned a new canning recipe for peaches, you add a vanilla bean to the simmering syrup! I'm going to have to buy more peaches now . Hope your day is going well and hang in there, Rose

 

Hi RDB,

I'm "okay". Bobbing in the waves but functional.

 

Yes, vanilla bean is delicious!  I also do cinnamon sticks, slice of ginger and cardamon pods. I especially like the ginger.

And, if peaches are ripening too quickly, I will cold pack them and just place the "add in" directly into the jar instead of boiling with the syrup. It works well too.

 

How are you feeling?

 

Marija🍐 

[[...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

I am glad you are feeling better Rdb.  Pickled beets sound wonderful!!

 

Hi Anne,

    How are you today? Enjoying your summer vacation? Yes, the beets are good this year, we are getting lots of sunshine here in the NW! Last year my pickled beets were so strong you couldn't really enjoy them, this year I used a different recipe Well take care and thanks for all your help with this group

[[sh...]]

Yay! I felt good enough today to pick my beets and am heating them in pickling liquid to can them! So happy to feel better, and so glad I only had to can peaches cause I still had tons of nectarines, pears, and applesauce from last year. Onward and upward!

 

I am glad you are feeling better Rdb.  Pickled beets sound wonderful!!

 

Hi Anne,

    How a you today? Enjoying your summer vacation? Yes, the beets are good this year, we are getting lots of sunshine here in the NW! Last year my pickled beets were so strong you couldn't really enjoy them, this year I used a different recipe Well take care and thanks for all your help with this group

 

I wouldn't touch beets until my wife made me some pickled beets.  Now I love them!

[[Ul...]]

 

 

Ain't gonna happen, Sharkles. None of my pics have a url. All the pics are on my computer  :'(

 

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff,

 

If I can figure out how to post my pics online, anybody can! Truly!

 

Alright, Miss Gardener...I've got pictures on my computer hard drive. How do I put one into this thread? Sharkey has to see them.

 

Jeff

 

You have to move them online. Actually, I do that in not-the-best way. I have a weebly website I post my photos on. If you go to weebly.com, it will teach you step by step how to make a website and put photos on it. It is free. Just keep ignoring it when it asks you over and over if you want to upgrade.

 

But I think there are much easier ways to park photos online so they have a url, such as photobucket.com. Probably you should check out photobucket first. I suspect it's simpler than weebly.

 

Once they are online, you right click on the image you want to put on BB and you should get a drop down menu. One of the choices is to copy the image url. Choose that and then do control-V* to put it between the Mona Lisa brackets. (You see the tiny Mona Lisa, right? Click on it and brackets will appear wherever your cursor is. That's where your picture will show up in your post.)

 

And, I learned the hard way, never move the online photo or the url will change and the picture will disappear from BB. And then you will have to post a help ticket and beg a moderator to fix your whole darn blog for you. And, if Challis can't sleep one night, she will do it for you!

 

*I think it's control-V. I have a Windows keyboard with a Mac computer so my commands are screwy. But I'm sure you know how to copy and paste! Basically you are copying the url and pasting it into your post using the tiny Mona Lisa.

 

Now, was that as clear as mud??

 

Edit: P.S. You do have some kind of photo editing software on your computer, right?

 

Mercy! Right now I think I'll focus on getting through the next hour. I'll check into photobucket and Imagelink when my brain is screwed on a little better. Well, that may be a while...

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

 

Mercy! Right now I think I'll focus on getting through the next hour. I'll check into photobucket and Imagelink when my brain is screwed on a little better. Well, that may be a while...

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

Sorry to hear you're not feeling too good, Jeff. Have you met with that new psychiatrist yet? I keep wondering about that but can't remember when the date is.

 

Gard

[[li...]]

Hi, I would like to do the water/vodka titration method, I have all the equipment to get started. My concern is that this is an extremely slow process and I'm currently suffering from all type of symptoms due to tolerance. I have hand tremors wich make pill cutting impossible.  Is the water tritation method advisable for someone in my situation?

[[...]]

Hi, I would like to do the water/vodka titration method, I have all the equipment to get started. My concern is that this is an extremely slow process and I'm currently suffering from all type of symptoms due to tolerance. I have hand tremors wich make pill cutting impossible.  Is the water tritation method advisable for someone in my situation?

 

Hi Lindana, Welcome to the group. Basically, you dissolve your med in a small amount of at least 80 proof alcohol then mix with water. Then divide your daily doses evenly. If you look at Sharkeys, Builders, Annes, SG's threads you can see how they did it. Or they will come on and answer your questions.

    We all are in tolerance withdrawal while tapering and even before tapering. It is just a fact that is inevitable. I have taken Xanax for 14+ years and spent years in tolerance W/D and didn't know it. I can truly say with this MT method and taking 3 evenly spaced doses my tolerance W/D is so much easier on me. I am down to 0.40mg/24hrs using a liquid MT with propelyne glycol. I think you may have to accept that it is going to take some time. If you go too fast you will suffer for it as many here can vouch. You have to go slow enough for your brain and nervous system to heal in the process. I would like to be off right now this instant but I have learned the hard way to go slow. You could go fast, but chances are very great that you will suffer for weeks if not months after you are done. You could experience PAWS, Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. That is a risk of going too fast with a taper. Anyway, good luck to you , Rose

[[li...]]

Thank you for your reply and your support Rose. I have no other choice than to "keep swimming" slowly. Tolerance is such a horrible state, l get impatient because taking a benzo everday does absolutely nothing but make me more miserable.

I see your progress and it is encouraging to me

 

[[bu...]]

Hi, I would like to do the water/vodka titration method, I have all the equipment to get started. My concern is that this is an extremely slow process and I'm currently suffering from all type of symptoms due to tolerance. I have hand tremors wich make pill cutting impossible.  Is the water tritation method advisable for someone in my situation?

  See my post on your other thread.  Its a myth that titration is a "slow process".  At any given cut rate it moves forward as the same rate as a cut-and-hold/dry taper.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi, I would like to do the water/vodka titration method, I have all the equipment to get started. My concern is that this is an extremely slow process and I'm currently suffering from all type of symptoms due to tolerance. I have hand tremors wich make pill cutting impossible.  Is the water tritation method advisable for someone in my situation?

 

Hi Lindana, Welcome to the group. Basically, you dissolve your med in a small amount of at least 80 proof alcohol then mix with water. Then divide your daily doses evenly. If you look at Sharkeys, Builders, Annes, SG's threads you can see how they did it. Or they will come on and answer your questions.

    We all are in tolerance withdrawal while tapering and even before tapering. It is just a fact that is inevitable. I have taken Xanax for 14+ years and spent years in tolerance W/D and didn't know it. I can truly say with this MT method and taking 3 evenly spaced doses my tolerance W/D is so much easier on me. I am down to 0.40mg/24hrs using a liquid MT with propelyne glycol. I think you may have to accept that it is going to take some time. If you go too fast you will suffer for it as many here can vouch. You have to go slow enough for your brain and nervous system to heal in the process. I would like to be off right now this instant but I have learned the hard way to go slow. You could go fast, but chances are very great that you will suffer for weeks if not months after you are done. You could experience PAWS, Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. That is a risk of going too fast with a taper. Anyway, good luck to you , Rose

 

Hi Rose,

How are you preparing your MT with propelyne glycol?  Or, is it compounded?

How much are you reducing per day?

 

Thanks,

Marija

[[Sh...]]

Hi MT team,

 

I hope everyone is doing well, or for some who are going through a rough patch,  I hope you are finding hope and support that helps you get through each day.  I started the new job and it will be a challenge.  I will need to learn to manage the stress that comes with the job and the tolerance WD sx I have before I start the taper, but it is on my mind everyday. I read more than I post, but I keep up on how all of you are doing. I admire your strength,  and your willingness to support others while you are going through the fire of benzo WDs. Those of you have jumped and remain to help others,  you are amazing. 

 

I do have questions if you do not mind answering.  Does starting the taper most likely mean current mild sx will become worse?  Is it possible to feel better during the taper?  If I have been on 1mg per day since 2008, does the long term use play into how much I should start reducing?  Less vs. More?  I read where some start out reducing at a higher rate in the beginning. Is there an ideal amount recommended to start?  .25ml was Sharkey's rate. I see some recommend .15ml and others .5ml.  How soon might sx hit due to the half life?  I hope I have not asked too much.  I am trying to mentally prepare.  Not that there are any guarantees.

 

Thanks for any responses. 

 

Hang tough team!

 

Shaani 

[[jr...]]

Hi MT team,

 

I hope everyone is doing well, or for some who are going through a rough patch,  I hope you are finding hope and support that helps you get through each day.  I started the new job and it will be a challenge.  I will need to learn to manage the stress that comes with the job and the tolerance WD sx I have before I start the taper, but it is on my mind everyday. I read more than I post, but I keep up on how all of you are doing. I admire your strength,  and your willingness to support others while you are going through the fire of benzo WDs. Those of you have jumped and remain to help others,  you are amazing. 

 

I do have questions if you do not mind answering.  Does starting the taper most likely mean current mild sx will become worse?  Is it possible to feel better during the taper?  If I have been on 1mg per day since 2008, does the long term use play into how much I should start reducing?  Less vs. More?  I read where some start out reducing at a higher rate in the beginning. Is there an ideal amount recommended to start?  .25ml was Sharkey's rate. I see some recommend .15ml and others .5ml.  How soon might sx hit due to the half life?  I hope I have not asked too much.  I am trying to mentally prepare.  Not that there are any guarantees.

 

Thanks for any responses. 

 

Hang tough team!

 

Shaani 

 

I do a micro taper taking .001 grams off every 3 days. I currently am on hold because my wife had surgery. It has worked well for me. I was in a bad place when I started but the sxs have lessened as I go forward. I am currently 3 dosing and my cut is up to .010 grams. I have no experience with liquid titration but I do recommend the micro taper.

[[cs...]]

Having some difficulty starting out on my taper the last couple days (sorry, haven't had time to update my sig line). I know most on his board are using liquid tapers of various kinds; I chose to stick with a dry cut microtaper since I am using a 0.0001g scale.

 

Since it is still questionable in my mind as to whether my generic K tablets are truly homogenous (the active med being evenly disbursed), I first started out by ascertaining an average of several tablets (since they vary in weight by 3-5%), pulverized the tablets, mixed the powder, weighed it (using a 0.0001g scale), encapsulating the powder, then reweighed, keeping the dose the same as my original dose, just to test my metabolism. I felt a bit funky after a few days of the capsules, stopped, and am now filing the tablet (much less time consuming and fussy), however, the concern is still whether the tablets are homogenous (you ask one pharmacist he says yes, since it's scored, no problem, you ask another, he says no guarantee, you ask the mfg, and even they cannot give me a straight answer). If not, then I would think working with tablets is a risky bet when it comes to w/d symptoms. And now, since my starting cuts are so tiny, they are sometimes either too much or not enough to get the tablet weight to the desired amount because of the weight variance per tablet. 

 

Any and all insight to assist me in determining what taper road is best would be greatly appreciated. I would rather iron out these measurement issues now than too far into the taper when w/d symptoms may be more of an issue.

[[...]]

Hi MT team,

Does starting the taper most likely mean current mild sx will become worse?

 

No, not at all.  It depends on how you taper and the rate you go at.  You can taper and be in good shape the entire time, especially with a daily taper.

Is it possible to feel better during the taper?

 

Do you mean improve as you taper?  I think it is possible to taper away existing symptoms, but it takes time.

 

If I have been on 1mg per day since 2008, does the long term use play into how much I should start reducing?

 

I don't think so.  Not by any formula anyway.  Whether you have been on for 10 months or 10 years we don't know what rate you can handle so it must be found by searching for it.  This is best done by starting low and inching up.

 

I read where some start out reducing at a higher rate in the beginning. Is there an ideal amount recommended to start?

 

Your dose is a guide to what cut to begin at.  Bigger cuts can safely be used on higher doses.  Picking a starting point is a little subjective and it is better to error too low.  I tend to look at the dose and see what the daily cut size would be to reduce 5% in a month as 5% a month is pretty conservative.  I think when beginning it is important to be successful right away.

 

How soon might sx hit due to the half life?

 

It varies from hours to as much as two weeks I'd say.  When you find yours it should be pretty consistent.

[[Sh...]]

THANK YOU SG.    So, .25mL x 14 days = 3.5% and if I keep cutting .25mL per day, by day 28 I would be at 7%. RIGHT?    To keep it at 5% and not over tax my math deficient brain.... how do I determine daily cuts? I have the graduated cylinder and the 1ml syringes, and I still get nervous about whether I am measuring "to the exact line on the cylinder".  TY!  Shaani

 

 

[[Ma...]]

Hello all! I am a high dose long term user of klonopin. Since I got to 4mg I have been having a much harder time tapering. I'm currently at 3.206mg and I just cut 5% and it did not go as well as I hoped. I'm going to reevaluate in 10 days. I was wondering if there were people who are or have micro tapered at my dose? I notice so far I have really only seen it under 1mg. I am thinking about MT instead of cut and hold since I have issues even with lower cuts. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. Also I just found BB in June and started using a scale. Before that I was just using a pill cutter. Thank you!

 

XO Maya