Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

http://jgardnerscollection.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/6/2/56621493/5085920_orig.jpg

 

Sorry this photo is a bit fuzzy. Ignore the numbers on the far right. They are potential sleep aids I am alternating. The black 5=5mg Librium. The red numbers are the Xanax 10% dilution.

 

I just upped my bedtime Librium and got rid of the bedtime Xanax, which makes my evenings less confusing. I plan to taper the X now using an alternating-days micro taper. You see, I cut one dose by .02ml of the dilution one day and then I cut 2 doses by .02ml of the dilution the next day, alternating days. My syringes are marked at .02 milligrams, so I can't cut .03 every day.

 

My middle-of-the-night dose is such a small portion that I figure if take it too early or too late or miss it entirely and just add it to the morning dose it won't make much difference, right?

 

I'd rather not add any more Libirum. I'd like to try to taper away the Xanax as far as possible. I like not having to guess and wait for a dose cut to hit me. The one good thing about Xanax is you know pretty quickly if you went too fast!

 

Does this look do-able? See any funny math? See anything illogical? The .02XD cut every day I have been doing is simple and tolerable but will take me 2 years!

 

Thanks!

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

[[ga...]]

I think I need to switch over to liquid titration. My body feels like it is survival mode and I have been going at a rate of .02mg/day... using a scale and scraping 2mg pills.

 

I just got back from the ER for dehydration and low blood sugar... I thought I was losing it and I was... I'm just scared as hell to try the Rx Liquid Valium again, because when I've tried, it's felt like an enormous cut.

 

Smh. I don't know anymore... my blood sugar is bottoming out, I'm losing muscle/weight, and I've been going at a pace of AT MOST 10% a month.

 

Feel defeated.

 

Sorry to hear your taper has been rough. I've really struggled to eat and drink and keep muscle on, too. My doctor told me to up my protein and eat more fruit, so I did. I've only been cutting 6%/month. I hope to get up to 10% soon, but it may not happen. I'm learning a lot about acceptance through all of this, something that has never been my long suit!

 

My psychiatrist told me he didn't trust that the pills had the drug evenly distributed through them and was happy I was doing liquid titration. If he's right, and if you are very sensitive to cuts, then dry cutting might be very hard on you.  Have you considered crossing to liquid slowly the way one would cross from one benzo to another? Maybe that would work for you. Just a thought.

[[ga...]]

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

 

Thanks, SG. The .02 marks on the syringes are really close together and seem to be equal to one drop, so I couldn't figure out what else to do besides alternate. Crossing my fingers and hoping it works. If not, back to my snail taper. At least with the Xanax I'll know quickly if this is a mistake! Beats being slammed 2-3 weeks later when it's too late to go back.

[[...]]

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

 

Thanks, SG. The .02 marks on the syringes are really close together and seem to be equal to one drop, so I couldn't figure out what else to do besides alternate. Crossing my fingers and hoping it works. If not, back to my snail taper. At least with the Xanax I'll know quickly if this is a mistake! Beats being slammed 2-3 weeks later when it's too late to go back.

 

Yup, that's a sign your liquid is too concentrated for the syringe you are using.  I like to keep the min cut to no closer than .05ml.  A bright light and a magnifier might help seeing things clearly.

[[NY...]]

My body went into extreme shock last time and I had to reinstate. I went from 3MG of Klonopin to 0mg of Valium in about 10 months. So I'm trying to strike a balance. I mapped out the cut and hold in a spreadsheet and it's way to slow. Even weaning 0.05mg per week has me off 5/20/2017. That seems too long as well, but I don't know. Thoughts?

 

I'm sorry Stephen, I saw .05 and my mind registered .005 which is how I finished the last tiny bit of my taper. Yeah, 3mg k to zero in 10 months was crazy fast. Maybe try .02 daily or even .01 daily for a while and see how it goes. You can always speed up if you are doing fine. Personally I think that cutting and holding even small amounts like that are more irritating than finding a rate that you can daily taper at. You might actually find yourself cutting faster that way and still felling reasonably okay.

 

Ah this makes me a bit nervous.  Cutting from 7mg k to .125, nearing final stretch in 3.5 months, so ten months total for me.  If sxs are in check, you think I'm safe?  So far so good, down to 1.62, began taper end of Feb.

 

This stuff is so complicated. I was on it for 14 years as well as withdrawing from Wellbutrin and Testosterone shots at the same time. Between those factors and differences in body chemistry you're not necessarily guaranteed to experience what I did. The one thing I'd ask is if you're having any physical symptoms you're brushing off. I was having pretty bad muscle spasms and tremors and kind of pushed through it. In hindsight I should have seen that as an opportunity to hold, honestly.

 

The only phys sx is occasional trembling, but mildly annoying.  I find anxiety brings this on, external stressors, and I get wigged out at times when too much is on my plate with work, etc.  I have found a patten though...my windows come after my cut, then I tend to feel worse as I get to days 6-9, cut day 10 and poof, window.  Has been consistent now for past five or so cuts, so feel like brain is begging me to cut, although i remain steadfast with my ten day holds. I don't know.  Tolerance withdrawal was honestly such a beast for so long, I can say I feel much better in mind, body, spirit during taper. I still like the idea of micro end, bc this allows for a gentle landing, and address the issue of feeling better with reductions. On kk, they recommend .001, with .002gram reductions as a daily max. Any thoughts on this?

[[...]]

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

 

Thanks, SG. The .02 marks on the syringes are really close together and seem to be equal to one drop, so I couldn't figure out what else to do besides alternate. Crossing my fingers and hoping it works. If not, back to my snail taper. At least with the Xanax I'll know quickly if this is a mistake! Beats being slammed 2-3 weeks later when it's too late to go back.

 

 

Hi BB's,

    Just wondering, do any of you ever hit a "wall" when you are MT that forces you to stay put for awhile? It doesn't seem that cutting by 0.0025mg/day should cause that. But I swear my system feels every cut and I am unable to MT every day and this is setting me back each time I cut. My progress is only half of what it should ideally be. Frustrated I know, I can only whine a little, thanks for listening.  In case anyone asks, I'm doing 1mg Xanax dissolved in 2ml propylene glycol, then added to 398ml water. I started at 176ml per day = .44mg Xanax (divided into three 58.6ml doses) Now I am at 161mls/day, .402mg Xanax but should be at 151mls/day. Trying to keep a realistic perspective, life could be much, much worse.  Night all, thx again, Rose

[[...]]

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

 

Thanks, SG. The .02 marks on the syringes are really close together and seem to be equal to one drop, so I couldn't figure out what else to do besides alternate. Crossing my fingers and hoping it works. If not, back to my snail taper. At least with the Xanax I'll know quickly if this is a mistake! Beats being slammed 2-3 weeks later when it's too late to go back.

 

Yup, that's a sign your liquid is too concentrated for the syringe you are using.  I like to keep the min cut to no closer than .05ml.  A bright light and a magnifier might help seeing things clearly.

 

G,

 

I was thinking about this and I now think this is the biggest issue I see.  If you are going to be tapering the X it may be a good idea to cut it another 10x.  Right now you have a .1mg/ml solution at that is too concentrated for a 1ml syringe.  It could be making your ride more bumpy simply due to the measurement error.  The strength really needs to be .01mg/ml or less.

[[no...]]

I think I need to switch over to liquid titration. My body feels like it is survival mode and I have been going at a rate of .02mg/day... using a scale and scraping 2mg pills.

 

I just got back from the ER for dehydration and low blood sugar... I thought I was losing it and I was... I'm just scared as hell to try the Rx Liquid Valium again, because when I've tried, it's felt like an enormous cut.

 

Smh. I don't know anymore... my blood sugar is bottoming out, I'm losing muscle/weight, and I've been going at a pace of AT MOST 10% a month.

 

Feel defeated.

 

 

Hi  Dan there is a 'time lapse effect'' when tapering, a cut from weeks ago maybe the problem during tapering not the one from a day or two ago, and this causes a domino effect, the original cut from week's ag catching up with the most recent ones then boom!!! I get it terrible and have learned to slow down as soon as I feel its coming not wait until the train crash happens and sit amongst the wreckage trying to prevent the crash thats already happened?

 

Its taken me 4 months to get from liquidizing a 2mg pill from my 4mg dose in 100ml of water starting at 0.1ml daily which slammed me really quick and I had to hold at .99 for a while until I was balanced enough to continue at 00.05 a day.

 

Then BAM!!! got me again at l.86ml  cut so I held again then lowed cut to 00,02 a day and bam!! again at 3ml (97 mil left) I am now 4 day's in to week 3 of holding until I feel its okay to cut again. I have all sorts if sxs, and also go out walking ever day for two hours, and I'm doing it with sxs that other people would lay down with, I know thats true as before I knew I was in tolerance withdrawal and believed the misdiagnoses I was given thats exactly what I did. 

 

I was led to believe that certain things would ''accelerate  illnesses''  cripple me or be the one that would have me from house bound spending a lot of time in bed and a wheel chair to bed bound for life !"£$!@</!!

Now I know what is is after year's of research and being the only person that never gave up on finding out the true cause and on myself If I can move even in agony I bloody well do it!! 

 

I spent year's laying down in wheel chairs or static in agony getting worse each time then wondering why I was feeling like I was getting better occasionally and things that were impossible too do I was able to do them then BAM!! again??? WAVES AND WINDOWS!! 

 

I also found out during my year's of research that damaged nerves which was one of my misdiagnoses, they are from the Benzo but NOT physically wiped out like I was told. I have constant burning and nerve pain all over amongst my sxs which are classic Benzo WD symptoms were our CNS wiring is  'temporarily off line'  so to speak. 

 

Anyway damaged nerves or any nerve pain is so bad that people fear moving around or doing anything in cse they make it worse or damage their self but this is bad as without use it makes matters worse. There is a big difference between your body calling a halt to keep you still while it repairs to being able to move but afraid to do so, never let fear be your guide it will always lead you the wrong way.

 

We all know when we can move but are afraid to and thats the time to try, but when your body tells you to be still listen to the voice of reason not fear, our  worse limitations  are placed on us by our selves in fear. Anyway I hope this small novel  has maybe helped to shed some light on why some of us can cut happily away regular and others of us need to hold for day's, week's or how ever long whether using liquid or solids taper.

 

Important things to know about benzodiazepines:

 

    Varying the dosage, even by quite small amounts, may produce unexpected effects.

    The time between a reduction in dosage and withdrawal symptoms can vary from a few hours (with short acting drugs) to several weeks (with long acting drugs).

    Withdrawal symptoms can vary. What you experience after one reduction in dose may be quite different next time.

    These drugs dissolve in body fats and are retained in the body for long periods (they have been detected five years after coming off.

 

 

 

I tried cutting slowly but hit problems!

Definitions of "slowly" vary a lot. Many doctors and books suggest cutting at a rate which, in our experience, is often too rapid. Many people find it difficult to believe that the effects of cutting the dosage may not be experienced for two or three weeks (for long acting Benzos). See withdrawal advice.

 

 

http://www.bataid.org/

 

 

How Long are Benzodiazepine Detectable after Cessation?

 

Benzodiazepines are detectable in the urine for 3 days after therapeutic use and for 4 – 6 weeks after chronic term use. It is detectable in hair for 90 days after cessation and in blood for 6 – 48 hours.

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/length_of_time_benzodiazepines_are_detectable.htm

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

P.S Dan get off the Vegan diet and eat ALL food groups Animal, Vegetable, Mineral whatever going Rw Vegan nearly finished me off, I am a LOT better eating the full spectrum of foods. My ethics and conscious about eating Animals is very noble but also dangerous it was me or them I'm afraid.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[dp...]]

Gardner and Nova... I really thank you for your replies... I'm really feeling to weak/sick to give a proper reply, but I want you to know I'm grateful. 

[[...]]

Hi BB's,

    Just wondering, do any of you ever hit a "wall" when you are MT that forces you to stay put for awhile? It doesn't seem that cutting by 0.0025mg/day should cause that. But I swear my system feels every cut and I am unable to MT every day and this is setting me back each time I cut. My progress is only half of what it should ideally be. Frustrated I know, I can only whine a little, thanks for listening.  In case anyone asks, I'm doing 1mg Xanax dissolved in 2ml propylene glycol, then added to 398ml water. I started at 176ml per day = .44mg Xanax (divided into three 58.6ml doses) Now I am at 161mls/day, .402mg Xanax but should be at 151mls/day. Trying to keep a realistic perspective, life could be much, much worse.  Night all, thx again, Rose

 

Rose, Some people just need to go slow for whatever reason.  I looked at your sig and what it tells me is your cut size might need to be about .0014mg per day.  .0025mg seems to be too much based on what you wrote.  "Walls" do happen, not sure why.  But they always seem to resolve with time.

[[NY...]]

Hi BB's,

    Just wondering, do any of you ever hit a "wall" when you are MT that forces you to stay put for awhile? It doesn't seem that cutting by 0.0025mg/day should cause that. But I swear my system feels every cut and I am unable to MT every day and this is setting me back each time I cut. My progress is only half of what it should ideally be. Frustrated I know, I can only whine a little, thanks for listening.  In case anyone asks, I'm doing 1mg Xanax dissolved in 2ml propylene glycol, then added to 398ml water. I started at 176ml per day = .44mg Xanax (divided into three 58.6ml doses) Now I am at 161mls/day, .402mg Xanax but should be at 151mls/day. Trying to keep a realistic perspective, life could be much, much worse.  Night all, thx again, Rose

 

Rose, Some people just need to go slow for whatever reason.  I looked at your sig and what it tells me is your cut size might need to be about .0014mg per day.  .0025mg seems to be too much based on what you wrote.  "Walls" do happen, not sure why.  But they always seem to resolve with time.

 

Hi Siggie,

 

Can you explain maybe why kk klub people, my main place here, tell me .001 max reductions per day?  Clona had a formula she used I recall, but if it went higher than .001grams she would think too high of cut. 

 

Thank you for clarifying.  I would just like to know what a reasonable daily dry micro gram cut to try would be when I hit .5 mg.  That would be .174 grams. 

 

With gratitude,

WR

[[...]]

Hi Siggie,

 

Can you explain maybe why kk klub people, my main place here, tell me .001 max reductions per day?  Clona had a formula she used I recall, but if it went higher than .001grams she would think too high of cut. 

 

Thank you for clarifying.  I would just like to know what a reasonable daily dry micro gram cut to try would be when I hit .5 mg.  That would be .174 grams. 

 

With gratitude,

WR

 

I assume you are referring to .001g on a scale rather than .001mg K?  A .001g cut from a .5mg K pill is about .003mg K.  When cutting daily that is a significant cut at lower doses and might be too much.  At a dose of .5mg it would be 18% in a month.

 

But the cut you use is not something that can be looked up.  Whatever works, works.  So the right cut needs to be found by testing it.  To get s sense though we can look at what works for others and also we can use monthly percentages as a guide.  IMO 5%/month is quite cautious, 7.5% is cautious, 10% is reasonable, and it get more daring/reckless from there.

 

So for example, at .5mg K 10% would be .05mg/month.  Dividing by 30 days in the month gives a .00167mg daily cut.  This does not mean this is THE cut.  It only means it is a safe starting point to begin looking for the right cut.  If you have a .5mg pill weighing .174g you would need to cut 60% of the time to get this rate (since the scale can't go below .001g).  A pattern to get 60% is C/C/C/H/H...in other words cut 3 days, hold 2.

[[Kg...]]

NYC all I can say is listen to SG - he helped me start my micro taper.  I began my micro taper at .625 and began very slowly.  After doing this and getting adjusted to the daily cuts I was able to go for about 2 months with hardly any holds - then I slowed down.  When the symptoms got bad I held every other day and then went to a hold every 7 days, now I hold every 5 days.  The nice thing about the daily taper  is you don't have to go up when you get hit,  you can hold where you are for a few days, slow it down, or if you feel great you can keep going.  I think this applies to the scale or liquid tapers.  Bennie and Clona also helped me when I got stuck. 

[[Ma...]]

I am planning to start micro tapering on Sunday and I need help! I am just going to start by dry cutting and try liquid later on. I need to know exactly what to do. I want to cut 5% every 10 to 14 days for now. I have both 1mg pills and .5mg pills. The average weight of the 1mg pills is 174g and the average weight for the .5mg pills is 169g. I have enough .5mg pills to just use them because it seems it's better to use those for MT. I dose four times a day:

10-11am .831mg

3pm .875mg

8pm 1mg

12am .5mg

I want to cut from my 3pm and 8pm doses. I could cut a little from my first dose also. I can't cut from my .5mg dose or my sleep will most likely be affected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Please be patient with my tired cog fog brain. Thank you!

 

XO Maya

[[dp...]]

Hi Siggie,

 

Can you explain maybe why kk klub people, my main place here, tell me .001 max reductions per day?  Clona had a formula she used I recall, but if it went higher than .001grams she would think too high of cut. 

 

Thank you for clarifying.  I would just like to know what a reasonable daily dry micro gram cut to try would be when I hit .5 mg.  That would be .174 grams. 

 

With gratitude,

WR

 

I assume you are referring to .001g on a scale rather than .001mg K?  A .001g cut from a .5mg K pill is about .003mg K.  When cutting daily that is a significant cut at lower doses and might be too much.  At a dose of .5mg it would be 18% in a month.

 

But the cut you use is not something that can be looked up.  Whatever works, works.  So the right cut needs to be found by testing it.  To get s sense though we can look at what works for others and also we can use monthly percentages as a guide.  IMO 5%/month is quite cautious, 7.5% is cautious, 10% is reasonable, and it get more daring/reckless from there.

 

So for example, at .5mg K 10% would be .05mg/month.  Dividing by 30 days in the month gives a .00167mg daily cut.  This does not mean this is THE cut.  It only means it is a safe starting point to begin looking for the right cut.  If you have a .5mg pill weighing .174g you would need to cut 60% of the time to get this rate (since the scale can't go below .001g).  A pattern to get 60% is C/C/C/H/H...in other words cut 3 days, hold 2.

 

Hey SG.

 

Quickie for you. What do you do when you get down to the real low doses... say 2mg or so.. and doing 10% over the course of a month is an extremely tiny amount... .2mg/month... ? If you followed percentages at that point, it would take several months at least and even years.

 

Reason I ask is that over the past 3 weeks, I had cut 10% which, at that pace would have had me about 13% or so during the month, and that's too much for me. So I'm holding for a bit and then restarting next week.

 

When did you start getting to the point where you just cut larger percentages and went with it?

 

Thanks SG

 

Dan

[[...]]

Hi Siggie,

 

Can you explain maybe why kk klub people, my main place here, tell me .001 max reductions per day?  Clona had a formula she used I recall, but if it went higher than .001grams she would think too high of cut. 

 

Thank you for clarifying.  I would just like to know what a reasonable daily dry micro gram cut to try would be when I hit .5 mg.  That would be .174 grams. 

 

With gratitude,

WR

 

I assume you are referring to .001g on a scale rather than .001mg K?  A .001g cut from a .5mg K pill is about .003mg K.  When cutting daily that is a significant cut at lower doses and might be too much.  At a dose of .5mg it would be 18% in a month.

 

But the cut you use is not something that can be looked up.  Whatever works, works.  So the right cut needs to be found by testing it.  To get s sense though we can look at what works for others and also we can use monthly percentages as a guide.  IMO 5%/month is quite cautious, 7.5% is cautious, 10% is reasonable, and it get more daring/reckless from there.

 

So for example, at .5mg K 10% would be .05mg/month.  Dividing by 30 days in the month gives a .00167mg daily cut.  This does not mean this is THE cut.  It only means it is a safe starting point to begin looking for the right cut.  If you have a .5mg pill weighing .174g you would need to cut 60% of the time to get this rate (since the scale can't go below .001g).  A pattern to get 60% is C/C/C/H/H...in other words cut 3 days, hold 2.

 

Hey SG.

 

Quickie for you. What do you do when you get down to the real low doses... say 2mg or so.. and doing 10% over the course of a month is an extremely tiny amount... .2mg/month... ? If you followed percentages at that point, it would take several months at least and even years.

 

Reason I ask is that over the past 3 weeks, I had cut 10% which, at that pace would have had me about 13% or so during the month, and that's too much for me. So I'm holding for a bit and then restarting next week.

 

When did you start getting to the point where you just cut larger percentages and went with it?

 

Thanks SG

 

Dan

 

Dan, That happens at the low doses.  Don't worry about and just keep using the same daily cut.  Using percentages is a good approximate guide for most of the taper, but over the last few mgs of V it begins to fall apart and becomes totally useless.  If symptoms increase then hold and if they keep increasing lower the cut.

[[ga...]]

 

G,

 

I was thinking about this and I now think this is the biggest issue I see.  If you are going to be tapering the X it may be a good idea to cut it another 10x.  Right now you have a .1mg/ml solution at that is too concentrated for a 1ml syringe.  It could be making your ride more bumpy simply due to the measurement error.  The strength really needs to be .01mg/ml or less.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you mean I need to dilute it even further?

[[NY...]]

Hi Siggie,

 

Can you explain maybe why kk klub people, my main place here, tell me .001 max reductions per day?  Clona had a formula she used I recall, but if it went higher than .001grams she would think too high of cut. 

 

Thank you for clarifying.  I would just like to know what a reasonable daily dry micro gram cut to try would be when I hit .5 mg.  That would be .174 grams. 

 

With gratitude,

WR

 

I assume you are referring to .001g on a scale rather than .001mg K?  A .001g cut from a .5mg K pill is about .003mg K.  When cutting daily that is a significant cut at lower doses and might be too much.  At a dose of .5mg it would be 18% in a month.

 

But the cut you use is not something that can be looked up.  Whatever works, works.  So the right cut needs to be found by testing it.  To get s sense though we can look at what works for others and also we can use monthly percentages as a guide.  IMO 5%/month is quite cautious, 7.5% is cautious, 10% is reasonable, and it get more daring/reckless from there.

 

So for example, at .5mg K 10% would be .05mg/month.  Dividing by 30 days in the month gives a .00167mg daily cut.  This does not mean this is THE cut.  It only means it is a safe starting point to begin looking for the right cut.  If you have a .5mg pill weighing .174g you would need to cut 60% of the time to get this rate (since the scale can't go below .001g).  A pattern to get 60% is C/C/C/H/H...in other words cut 3 days, hold 2.

 

This is where brain gets confused bc I cut ten percent every ten days, and feel quite well. Hmm.  Micro confuses me, so think I will stick with cut hold until finish line.  Thank you though! 

[[ga...]]

Gardner and Nova... I really thank you for your replies... I'm really feeling to weak/sick to give a proper reply, but I want you to know I'm grateful. 

 

Hang in there, dpier! We understand.

[[ga...]]

 

It's doable I think.  Things are a bit out of balance here and there, but they are that way because you are making tradeoffs and they seem like reasonable trades.

 

Your trying to drop .003mg X a day, but your syringe isn't marked for that, although you could estimate .003mg.  But still, the way you are doing it is okay.

 

Ideally X needs to be dosed six a day, but again not a deal breaker if you don't.

 

3am and 10pm doses are unbalanced, but a good reason for doing it this way.  You are bringing the other four doses down together and the long life of the L is gradually increasing its effect as the X leaves.

 

I can't really see anything I would change.  Maybe estimate the .003mg cut daily instead of alternating .002mg and .004mg, but that is nitpicking.  Good job!

 

Thanks, SG. The .02 marks on the syringes are really close together and seem to be equal to one drop, so I couldn't figure out what else to do besides alternate. Crossing my fingers and hoping it works. If not, back to my snail taper. At least with the Xanax I'll know quickly if this is a mistake! Beats being slammed 2-3 weeks later when it's too late to go back.

 

 

Hi BB's,

    Just wondering, do any of you ever hit a "wall" when you are MT that forces you to stay put for awhile? It doesn't seem that cutting by 0.0025mg/day should cause that. But I swear my system feels every cut and I am unable to MT every day and this is setting me back each time I cut. My progress is only half of what it should ideally be. Frustrated I know, I can only whine a little, thanks for listening.  In case anyone asks, I'm doing 1mg Xanax dissolved in 2ml propylene glycol, then added to 398ml water. I started at 176ml per day = .44mg Xanax (divided into three 58.6ml doses) Now I am at 161mls/day, .402mg Xanax but should be at 151mls/day. Trying to keep a realistic perspective, life could be much, much worse.  Night all, thx again, Rose

 

Sorry to hear how rough your taper is. When mine got that bad, I started to cross over to Librium. I did a very slow, partial cross over and my symptoms have improved.  Now I'm tapering away my X while holding my L. I hope to not add more L because it can be depressing. We shall see.

 

I'm going at about half the rate I should be, too! 

[[an...]]

I am doing a daily liquid taper from lorazepam. During my first taper, I cut no more than 10% of the dose every 2 weeks. I continued this way all the way down to about 0.04 mg/day.  It worked well for me, and I plan on following the same procedure with this current taper. Once I got to the very low dosages, I would feel it if I made a mistake and cut more than 10%/2weeks. Once I got to very low doses, around 0.1 mg/day I would sometimes forget to take one or two of my daily doses,  and I did not experience any symptoms whatsoever. I knew at that point it was probably safe to jump.  I went down to about 0.04 mg just to be sure. According to my schedule it will take me about 2 more months to get to 0.25 mg/day and then another 7 or 8 months to get down to where I can jump.  If things go as well as they did the first time, it will be well worth the extra time.

[[bu...]]

 

G,

 

I was thinking about this and I now think this is the biggest issue I see.  If you are going to be tapering the X it may be a good idea to cut it another 10x.  Right now you have a .1mg/ml solution at that is too concentrated for a 1ml syringe.  It could be making your ride more bumpy simply due to the measurement error.  The strength really needs to be .01mg/ml or less.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you mean I need to dilute it even further?

 

Yes, I'm sure that's what he means.  Dilution is the key to precision AND consistency.  Obviously it would be easier to read .2 than to read .02.

 

It's easier to measure gallons than teaspoons.  ;)

[[...]]

I am planning to start micro tapering on Sunday and I need help! I am just going to start by dry cutting and try liquid later on. I need to know exactly what to do. I want to cut 5% every 10 to 14 days for now. I have both 1mg pills and .5mg pills. The average weight of the 1mg pills is 174g and the average weight for the .5mg pills is 169g. I have enough .5mg pills to just use them because it seems it's better to use those for MT. I dose four times a day:

10-11am .831mg

3pm .875mg

8pm 1mg

12am .5mg

I want to cut from my 3pm and 8pm doses. I could cut a little from my first dose also. I can't cut from my .5mg dose or my sleep will most likely be affected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Please be patient with my tired cog fog brain. Thank you!

 

XO Maya

 

Maya, Your dose is 3.206mg.  To keep things simple I'll use 5.6% a month instead of 5% as a starting point.  You would cut by a total of .006mg per day.  If the .5mg/.169g pill is used that is .002g a day (.003mg x2).  If the 1mg pill were used it would be .001g a day (.0057mg...not quite exactly the same but close enough).

 

I'd leave the 12am dose alone for a long time.  In fact, I'd work exclusively on the 8pm dose until it gets down near the 10am and 3pm doses.

 

So for now it works out very simply.  Cut .006mg off your 8pm dose until it gets near .850mg or so.  This will take about a month.  If that pill is 1mg then that is .001g per day from the 8pm dose.  If you use .5mg pills for that it is .002g per day.

 

What I just did was for 5.6% a month (5.6% made the math simple).  If you want to do 5% every two weeks just double it, but I would not recommend beginning there as it may be too fast and you want to have immediate success to gain confidence in MT.

[[...]]

 

G,

 

I was thinking about this and I now think this is the biggest issue I see.  If you are going to be tapering the X it may be a good idea to cut it another 10x.  Right now you have a .1mg/ml solution at that is too concentrated for a 1ml syringe.  It could be making your ride more bumpy simply due to the measurement error.  The strength really needs to be .01mg/ml or less.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you mean I need to dilute it even further?

 

Yes, I'm sure that's what he means.  Dilution is the key to precision AND consistency.  Obviously it would be easier to read .2 than to read .02.

 

It's easier to measure gallons than teaspoons.  ;)

 

 

Right now you are at .1mg/ml X.  If you dilute to move the decimal point so that you have .01mg/ml you would be much better off IMO.  It's up to you, but this is what dilution is for.