Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

 

SG57:

 

I dissolve .5 mg Klonopin in 2 mL vodka then add 98 mL water for a total of 100 mL. Each day I have been taking out .5 mL more than the previous day and drinking the rest. Hope that helps.

 

Okay, that's what I needed to know.  Each ml is .005mg so .5ml is .0025mg.

 

You were cutting .0025mg/day for two weeks and had no increase in symptoms, so it looks like you have established .0025mg/day as a valid cut rate.  Your dose is .5mg so I'd be careful to go much higher as it is .075mg/month, which is 15% of your .5mg dose.

 

If you wanted to try a higher cut I'd suggest .003mg (.6ml) and retest that for two weeks minimum.

[[ga...]]

Has anybody heard anything from Jeff (Ultra) recently?

[[Pi...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

 

SG57:

 

I dissolve .5 mg Klonopin in 2 mL vodka then add 98 mL water for a total of 100 mL. Each day I have been taking out .5 mL more than the previous day and drinking the rest. Hope that helps.

 

Okay, that's what I needed to know.  Each ml is .005mg so .5ml is .0025mg.

 

You were cutting .0025mg/day for two weeks and had no increase in symptoms, so it looks like you have established .0025mg/day as a valid cut rate.  Your dose is .5mg so I'd be careful to go much higher as it is .075mg/month, which is 15% of your .5mg dose.

 

If you wanted to try a higher cut I'd suggest .003mg (.6ml) and retest that for two weeks minimum.

 

SG57:

 

Thanks for calculating the math. I'll just stick to what I'm doing since it's working. I don't want to chance any bad withdrawl effects if they can be avoided. So grateful to have you here to help

[[...]]

SG57:

 

Thanks for calculating the math. I'll just stick to what I'm doing since it's working. I don't want to chance any bad withdrawl effects if they can be avoided. So grateful to have you here to help

 

You're welcome.  And .0025mg a day is a pretty good clip, really.  It is equivalent to 1.5mg V a month, which is not too shabby.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Help someone pm me. I am extremely kindled I'm tapering off 6mg ativan made it to 5.The and have developed a akathisia so bad I can't hang on another minute. Help this was the whole reason I reinstated in the first place I literallycannot push through anymore I'm at the end of my rope I have tapered .mtg over a month and am trying to peel my skin off from insanity I can't stop pacing I been doing this for a year now and I'm ready to blow the chains how the Fuck am I supposed to get through this I'm done there's nowhere to go

 

I'm going to bump this.

Any one here able to help?

[[Be...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

 

SG57:

 

I dissolve .5 mg Klonopin in 2 mL vodka then add 98 mL water for a total of 100 mL. Each day I have been taking out .5 mL more than the previous day and drinking the rest. Hope that helps.

 

Okay, that's what I needed to know.  Each ml is .005mg so .5ml is .0025mg.

 

You were cutting .0025mg/day for two weeks and had no increase in symptoms, so it looks like you have established .0025mg/day as a valid cut rate.  Your dose is .5mg so I'd be careful to go much higher as it is .075mg/month, which is 15% of your .5mg dose.

 

If you wanted to try a higher cut I'd suggest .003mg (.6ml) and retest that for two weeks minimum.

 

SG57:

 

Thanks for calculating the math. I'll just stick to what I'm doing since it's working. I don't want to chance any bad withdrawl effects if they can be avoided. So grateful to have you here to help

 

Pinhead,

 

As a reference point, I was able to increase from 0.002 mg/day to 0.003 mg/day and then to my current rate of 0.004 mg/day.  I did this to test whether I could shorten the duration of the taper and it worked.  Each time I increased the taper rate my body experienced it like a cut or when I switched to liquid.  In other words, my symptoms increased for a couple of weeks but then subsided to baseline.  So far I am stable at 0.004 mg/day and not experiencing a worsening of symptoms.  I believe everyone has a rate they can tolerate and it's up to each individual to decide whether they want to look for the limit.  I am not sure if I am at my limit, but am comfortable with the amount of time remaining for the entire withdrawal.

[[...]]

Help someone pm me. I am extremely kindled I'm tapering off 6mg ativan made it to 5.The and have developed a akathisia so bad I can't hang on another minute. Help this was the whole reason I reinstated in the first place I literallycannot push through anymore I'm at the end of my rope I have tapered .mtg over a month and am trying to peel my skin off from insanity I can't stop pacing I been doing this for a year now and I'm ready to blow the chains how the Fuck am I supposed to get through this I'm done there's nowhere to go

 

 

Hi,

  Can you just try sitting down and focus on taking some big deep breaths slowly? You might want to hold the dose you are at to give yourself a chance to stabilize and not think about pushing right now. Getting worked up and upset is feeding the fire of being worked up and upset. Try to distract yourself, even if it is self talk. And you know, sometimes when all else fails, prayer does help, regardless of your faith or lack of. Wish I could think of more suggestions, try to slow yourself down. Hang in there, this too shall pass. Rose

[[Ju...]]

 

 

At the risk of sticking my nose too far into your business, if you are going to use liquid and remove 10% and hold for two weeks, why not instead remove .7% each day for 14 days and make it easier on yourself?  You'll be at the same place after 14 days with both methods, but symptoms will be less intense with the daily reductions.

 

:thumbsup:  

 

There really is very little, if any, benefit to using liquid if you are doing a cut-and-hold taper.  But...whatever works!

 

This being the micro-tapering thread, you won't be surprised to hear that I agree!

 

Ok maybe but tell me how to calculate 7%. Would that be equal to discarding 3 ml of the liquid? I'm doing the liquid because the smallest dosage here is 0.5 mg tablet and you cannot accurately cut the tablet.  The liquid titration seems far easier that using a scale.

[[Ju...]]

I guess I don't understand how you would be at the same place in 14 days. What am I missing here?

[[Hi...]]

Thank you but I'm sorry I'm a year past the this too shall pass I'm at the point where something needs to be done I need to get stable I have been psychotic and so depressed I have been at end it let levels. You do not understand I amfar far worse condition than 90percent of people on this board doing nice Ashton tapers as I did not find this site till after six reinstatement and detox attempts I am so kindled and in hell deep breaths do not help akathisia and psychosis and delusions and panic attack that last for weeks at a time. I'm telling you I have ct symptoms on 6mg of ativan and I need directions on what I can do to stabilize myself hospital is not option doctor is not an option yet

My liver is messed up. I need advice on getting stable I know some people never stabilize but my withdrawal is so severe something has to be done to lessen it and I started tapering in tolerance withdrawal or maybe it's the gabapentin and methadone messing with me and making things worse but at this point doc I just need relief I can't handle any further I can't hear about try to relax and don't think about push through. I know you are trying to help I need real assistance. Please

 

I'm begging with my life maybe going on a high doses of valium or something but I'm clawing my skin off it's so bad

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hiphop,

Will your doctor prescribe valium for you?

Previously, you mentioned feeling better after taking Valium prior to your dental procedure. I know you have liver issues but are valium or Librium an option for you?

 

[[bu...]]

I guess I don't understand how you would be at the same place in 14 days. What am I missing here?

 

Whether you cut .5 and hold for 14 days, or cut .036 each day for 14 days, at the end of 14 days, you've cut .5 either way.

 

.5/14=.036.

[[jj...]]

Help someone pm me. I am extremely kindled I'm tapering off 6mg ativan made it to 5.The and have developed a akathisia so bad I can't hang on another minute. Help this was the whole reason I reinstated in the first place I literallycannot push through anymore I'm at the end of my rope I have tapered .mtg over a month and am trying to peel my skin off from insanity I can't stop pacing I been doing this for a year now and I'm ready to blow the chains how the Fuck am I supposed to get through this I'm done there's nowhere to go

 

Don't know if this got answered adequately, but a big part of the problem is most likely interdose withdrawal. Dr. Peart has a quick crossover plan to valium that will really help if that is the case. If you can get the prescription, here is the link http://www.drregpeart.org/Dr%20Peart%20Sample%20Schedules%20with%20Notes%2022Sep06.pdf

[[ga...]]

Hiphop and friends, Benzo Buddies has a very clear policy on threats of self harm.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/resources/suicide-self-harm/

 

Hiphop, it sounds to me like you are at a point where you may need to call 911 and get immediate medical assistance. Please consider it. I really wish there was more I could do for you, but I have no experience with these sort of symptoms. I'm very sorry.

[[Ul...]]

 

I'm sure it's somewhere here in the thread, but what is PAWS?

 

Thanks!

 

It's something like post acute withdrawal syndrome. It's what goes on after you've taken your last benzo.

 

Any news on your doctor hunt??

 

In short, Gardener, not yet. Still trying, and thank you for asking.

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

 

I'm sure it's somewhere here in the thread, but what is PAWS?

 

Thanks!

 

It's something like post acute withdrawal syndrome. It's what goes on after you've taken your last benzo.

 

Any news on your doctor hunt??

 

In short, Gardener, not yet. Still trying, and thank you for asking.

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

 

Well, you know I'm going to wonder about it until I hear something!!

[[Ul...]]

With all the recent interest in PG as a solvent I posted this on the solvent thread and am re-posting it here.

 

*****************

Recently on the MT thread there has been discussion about propylene glycol as a solvent for benzo tapering, especially for use in much the same way as alcohol and water are used.  Jouyban has published on this and generated data for both V and K in PG/water mixtures.  I am not sure if data for the other benzos exists.  I am posting what I have here to record it on the forum so it can be searched.

 

The following table shows the solubility of the various benzos in propylene glycol/water mixtures from 0% (i.e., plain water) to 100% PG.  Key: V=Valium; A=Ativan; Lib=Librium; K=Klonopin; X=Xanax.

 

Units = mg/ml

%PG  V      A    Lib    K      X

0      0.04                  0.03

10    0.13                  0.03

20    0.15                  0.06

30    0.27                  0.09

40    0.49                  0.18

50    0.81                  0.31

60    1.57                  0.87

70    3.33                  1.48

80    6.16                  2.81

90    9.95                  3.70

100 12.19                  5.85

 

 

Source:  Handbook of Solubility Data for Pharmaceuticals, A. Jouyban, ed., CRC Press, Boca Raton, FL, 2010.

*****************

 

Thanks SG!

:thumbsup:

 

Translation please....  how many ml of PG for 1mg of Clonazepam?

 

Thank you,

Shaani

 

Each ml of PG will dissolve 5.8mg K.  This stuff looks promising.

 

I'm behind on my BB reading: What's PG?

 

Thanks!

[[ga...]]

With all the recent interest in PG as a solvent I posted this on the solvent thread and am re-posting it here.

 

*****************

Recently on the MT thread there has been discussion about propylene glycol as a solvent for benzo tapering, especially for use in much the same way as alcohol and water are used.  Jouyban has published on this and generated data for both V and K in PG/water mixtures.  I am not sure if data for the other benzos exists.  I am posting what I have here to record it on the forum so it can be searched.

 

The following table shows the solubility of the various benzos in propylene glycol/water mixtures from 0% (i.e., plain water) to 100% PG.  Key: V=Valium; A=Ativan; Lib=Librium; K=Klonopin; X=Xanax.

 

Units = mg/ml

%PG  V      A    Lib    K      X

0      0.04                  0.03

10    0.13                  0.03

20    0.15                  0.06

30    0.27                  0.09

40    0.49                  0.18

50    0.81                  0.31

60    1.57                  0.87

70    3.33                  1.48

80    6.16                  2.81

90    9.95                  3.70

100 12.19                  5.85

 

 

Source:  Handbook of Solubility Data for Pharmaceuticals, A. Jouyban, ed., CRC Press, Boca Raton, FL, 2010.

*****************

 

Thanks SG!

:thumbsup:

 

Translation please....  how many ml of PG for 1mg of Clonazepam?

 

Thank you,

Shaani

 

Each ml of PG will dissolve 5.8mg K.  This stuff looks promising.

 

I'm behind on my BB reading: What's PG?

 

Thanks!

 

propylene glycol

[[Ul...]]

Has anybody heard anything from Jeff (Ultra) recently?

 

Yeh, I heard he's still beating up that psychiatrist at the medical school that told him he was a loser and that he could get off 3mg of K in less than 2 months if he was worth anything    Maybe that dude had Ultra confused with NYCWaveRider (or whoever). Still can't believe that person drop 5mg of K in two MONTHS!!

 

Ha ha!  Thanks for checking, Garner.  I was away from the computer for two days taking care of my wife. New complications from her cancer ride. I was on the phone with docs and insurance companies as well as getting her to appointments, etc.

 

Gotta geaux.

 

As always, hugs!

 

Jeff

[[Pi...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

 

SG57:

 

I dissolve .5 mg Klonopin in 2 mL vodka then add 98 mL water for a total of 100 mL. Each day I have been taking out .5 mL more than the previous day and drinking the rest. Hope that helps.

 

Okay, that's what I needed to know.  Each ml is .005mg so .5ml is .0025mg.

 

You were cutting .0025mg/day for two weeks and had no increase in symptoms, so it looks like you have established .0025mg/day as a valid cut rate.  Your dose is .5mg so I'd be careful to go much higher as it is .075mg/month, which is 15% of your .5mg dose.

 

If you wanted to try a higher cut I'd suggest .003mg (.6ml) and retest that for two weeks minimum.

 

SG57:

 

Thanks for calculating the math. I'll just stick to what I'm doing since it's working. I don't want to chance any bad withdrawl effects if they can be avoided. So grateful to have you here to help

 

Pinhead,

 

As a reference point, I was able to increase from 0.002 mg/day to 0.003 mg/day and then to my current rate of 0.004 mg/day.  I did this to test whether I could shorten the duration of the taper and it worked.  Each time I increased the taper rate my body experienced it like a cut or when I switched to liquid.  In other words, my symptoms increased for a couple of weeks but then subsided to baseline.  So far I am stable at 0.004 mg/day and not experiencing a worsening of symptoms.  I believe everyone has a rate they can tolerate and it's up to each individual to decide whether they want to look for the limit.  I am not sure if I am at my limit, but am comfortable with the amount of time remaining for the entire withdrawal.

 

Ben800: 

 

Thanks for mentioning that. I'm so glad you have been able to successfully increase your taper rate. I might try doing that too at some point. I don't like how at the rate I'm at I won't be off Klonopin until January 2016. Seems like a really long taper. I just don't want to have to be on this drug any longer than possible because of how bad it can effect my brain and cognitive abilities. But I don't want protracted withdrawl either. Keep us posted. I'm rooting for you

[[do...]]

Has anybody heard anything from Jeff (Ultra) recently?

 

Yeh, I heard he's still beating up that psychiatrist at the medical school that told him he was a loser and that he could get off 3mg of K in less than 2 months if he was worth anything    Maybe that dude had Ultra confused with NYCWaveRider (or whoever). Still can't believe that person drop 5mg of K in two MONTHS!!

 

Ha ha!  Thanks for checking, Garner.  I was away from the computer for two days taking care of my wife. New complications from her cancer ride. I was on the phone with docs and insurance companies as well as getting her to appointments, etc.

 

Gotta geaux.

 

As always, hugs!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Sending good thoughts to you and your wife. 

 

Hugs,

doodle dog

[[Ju...]]

I apologize for being slow to catch on but I thought the plan for a 10% reduction is .05mg per day so that over 14 days I've cut .7mg total. At a 7% cut per day or .03mg I've cut .42mg over 14 days. I'm way too confused. I'm agreeable to the 7% reduction but unsure if I'm correct on how to get there. Please correct my math if I'm wrong.

[[ga...]]

Has anybody heard anything from Jeff (Ultra) recently?

 

Yeh, I heard he's still beating up that psychiatrist egotistical, clueless, incompetent, willfully-ignorant narcissist at the medical school that told him he was a loser and that he could get off 3mg of K in less than 2 months if he was worth anything    Maybe that dude had Ultra confused with NYCWaveRider (or whoever). Still can't believe that person drop 5mg of K in two MONTHS!!

 

Ha ha!  Thanks for checking, Garner.  I was away from the computer for two days taking care of my wife. New complications from her cancer ride. I was on the phone with docs and insurance companies as well as getting her to appointments, etc.

 

Gotta geaux.

 

As always, hugs!

 

Jeff

 

Fixed your post for ya, Ultra. 

 

Hugs to you and your wife!

[[...]]

I apologize for being slow to catch on but I thought the plan for a 10% reduction is .05mg per day so that over 14 days I've cut .7mg total. At a 7% cut per day or .03mg I've cut .42mg over 14 days. I'm way too confused. I'm agreeable to the 7% reduction but unsure if I'm correct on how to get there. Please correct my math if I'm wrong.

 

Judy,

 

The daily cut would not be 7% it would be .7%.  Instead of cutting 10% and holding 14 days I suggested breaking it up into 14 small cuts 10%/14=.7%.  So each day you would drop by .7% and 14 of these will add up to 10%.

 

As Builder pointed out, another way to look at this is your current 10% cut is .5ml.  Instead of going immediately down by .5ml you would go down by .5ml/14=.036ml each day.

[[ga...]]

I apologize for being slow to catch on but I thought the plan for a 10% reduction is .05mg per day so that over 14 days I've cut .7mg total. At a 7% cut per day or .03mg I've cut .42mg over 14 days. I'm way too confused. I'm agreeable to the 7% reduction but unsure if I'm correct on how to get there. Please correct my math if I'm wrong.

 

Judy,

 

The daily cut would not be 7% it would be .7%.  Instead of cutting 10% and holding 14 days I suggested breaking it up into 14 small cuts 10%/14=.7%.  So each day you would drop by .7% and 14 of these will add up to 10%.

 

As Builder pointed out, another way to look at this is your current 10% cut is .5ml.  Instead of going immediately down by .5ml you would go down by .5ml/14=.036ml each day.

 

It's posts like these that give me hope that some day I will have my brain back and be able to understand this!