Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Yes, someone suggested that I try part pill and liquid combo too.  I may consider that.

 

Sorry to read that you have had some insomnia since cutting again.  The insomnia and vision problem made me go back to the pills for a few days.

 

With the dry method is it too hard to make the little cuts when you get  towards the end?

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

Hi Doodle,

 

Yes I think the dry method is very hard to make small accurate cuts from.  That is why I'm considering the liquid, but will keep dry pills as part of the dose as long as I can.  I do believe that the liquid is absorbed by the body quicker and therefore doesn't last as long in terms of effect.  That's the part I'm not looking forward to.  Right now I'm dosing twice a day, I don't want to have to dose more often than that.  UGH!

 

Bunny

 

Hi Bunny,  It is true we are all different as far as sensitivity to medications go. Alcohol does permeate our mucous membranes very quickly, and when a medication is dissolved in it I would expect that medication to be felt a bit sooner. However, if the alcohol and benzo is mixed with water and drank it still has to go through the "first pass effect" namely processed by the liver, as do just plain pills. The fastest way for a med to take effect is through an IV, next would be intramuscular, and next, pills. IV effect is almost instantaneous, IM takes about 15 minutes or so, and pills 40 to 60 minutes. Then you have inhaled meds, sprayed meds, sublingual (under the tongue), and topical meds. So I'm thinking that if the med is dissolved and drank, you might feel it just a tad sooner, especially on a totally empty stomach. But I really don't think the effect passes sooner because it is still processed the same way, through the liver which works to detoxify the med as it recognizes it as poison, so to speak. With IV meds the liver is not in the picture, that is why the big dose difference between IV and oral.  I went from pills to liquid for MT and truly I never noticed the effect sooner or it wearing off sooner, but that is just me. I found the liquid method to be much less time consuming and less hassle since all I have to do is draw the dose up in a 60cc syringe and drink it down. Plus, being mixed in propylene glycol it isn't refridgerated, and it's good for at least two days.  Hope sharing a little knowledge didn't offend you- it's just stuff I learned in school. I just mentioned the other ways medications are administered for comparison to orally ingested meds.  Rose

 

Hello Rose,

 

That is such great info that you shared.  Thanks.

 

I read that you are using PG in your taper.  Where do you purchase yours at?  Or is it just available at any drug store?

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

Hi doodle, I ordered US food grade 99.9% pure kosher PG from Amazon. I use 2-3 ml to dissolve 1mg Xanax. 

 

Hey Rose,

 

Thanks so much for the info.  Much appreciated.

 

Is that a pic of you?  Nice pic.  You look very nice.

 

Here's to our healing.

doodle dog

 

Yes to our healing! I second that. And yes, that's a pic of me in April on vaca in Hawaii. Take care, Rose

[[We...]]

Trying to liquefy some doses one more time to give it a go,  before I decide to use a scale. I'm going to take my dose with a lot of food, to try and slow down the absorption rate. wish me luck, guys

 

Best of luck to you, Shannon.  I am trying to taper ativan too, so I am watching you closely.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

Doodle,

 

this may be premature,but for some reason the 2 liquid doses I took today went over fine--nothing like the last time I liquefied them. I did it differently, however--I used 2ml of alcohol for each .5mg of A pill. and added 48 ml of water to make a 50ml solution for each .5ml pill.

 

I also ate a ton of food and took my dose in the middle of the food, to slow down the absorption. because I suspected it was the faster absorbtion that was affecting me negatively. I did feel a tad extra light headed and tired, but other than that, it's been ok. I think I will continue tomorrow to see how it goes.

 

hugs,

shan

[[do...]]

Trying to liquefy some doses one more time to give it a go,  before I decide to use a scale. I'm going to take my dose with a lot of food, to try and slow down the absorption rate. wish me luck, guys

 

Best of luck to you, Shannon.  I am trying to taper ativan too, so I am watching you closely.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

Doodle,

 

this may be premature,but for some reason the 2 liquid doses I took today went over fine--nothing like the last time I liquefied them. I did it differently, however--I used 2ml of alcohol for each .5mg of A pill. and added 48 ml of water to make a 50ml solution for each .5ml pill.

 

I also ate a ton of food and took my dose in the middle of the food, to slow down the absorption. because I suspected it was the faster absorbtion that was affecting me negatively. I did feel a tad extra light headed and tired, but other than that, it's been ok. I think I will continue tomorrow to see how it goes.

 

hugs,

shan

 

Thanks for the update, Shannon.  I am keeping my finger crossed for you.  Hopefully, having your tummy full will do the trick.

 

I am seriously considering dissolving with PG on my next attempt.  Plus, dosing 3 times daily instead of 2.

 

Sending good thoughts your way.

doodle dog

[[...]]

Hello SG,

 

Thanks so much.  So does this mean that it might not work to well with ativan?

 

Thanks,inl

doodle dog

  No, it just means there doesn't seem toi be any published research regarding ativan solubility in PG.

 

But the Roxane liquid ativan (lorazepam intensol) is a PG solvent-based product, so it is pretty much a certainty that it is in fact soluble in PG.

 

:thumbsup:

 

PG is used in all the common benzo liquid versions sold by Roxane.  And I think it is a good assumption that the reason it is there is to dissolve the benzo.  Jouyban has quantified solubility of V and K in PG/water mixtures, but we don't have that for A, Lib, or X.  But I'd say it is very likely that PG would do a good job with all the common benzos if it were used in a PG/water method.

[[Ju...]]

I'm new to group but have already learned a lot. I was told by Dr to cut my .5 mg clonazepam to .25 for a week to start. First day was bad so took .5 the next day.

 

I'm reading that slow is way to go so next I tried cutting tab into fourths and taking 3/4 two days and a whole.5 on third day. Initially not bad except for end of 2nd day at 3/4. I'm on day 8 and feel terrible. So...what to do? Do I try to cut the 1/4 in half and restart the process? Seems like it's too small to cut accurately.

 

I am intrigued by the liquid titration and want to learn enough to try that if I can figure it out.  Been on .5 mg clonazepam for over 10 years for dystonia and hope my taper will be slow enough to prevent it from rearing its ugly head.  Need help in liquid titrating.

[[...]]

I'm new to group but have already learned a lot. I was told by Dr to cut my .5 mg clonazepam to .25 for a week to start. First day was bad so took .5 the next day.

 

I'm reading that slow is way to go so next I tried cutting tab into fourths and taking 3/4 two days and a whole.5 on third day. Initially not bad except for end of 2nd day at 3/4. I'm on day 8 and feel terrible. So...what to do? Do I try to cut the 1/4 in half and restart the process? Seems like it's too small to cut accurately.

 

I am intrigued by the liquid titration and want to learn enough to try that if I can figure it out.  Been on .5 mg clonazepam for over 10 years for dystonia and hope my taper will be slow enough to prevent it from rearing its ugly head.  Need help in liquid titrating.

 

Steady dosing with gradual reduction is the way to go.  You have cut quite a bit, but have only been at the lower dose for a few days.  Honestly, I think I would go back to .5mg and hold there, then come down slowly.  I agree, liquid titration is a good plan that can get you off with minimum pain if you go about it properly.

[[Ju...]]

Hi, I cannot find the directions for liquid taper and whether to do milk or water. What size syringe to use. How do you know all is suspended evenly? Help!

[[...]]

Hi, I cannot find the directions for liquid taper and whether to do milk or water. What size syringe to use. How do you know all is suspended evenly? Help!

 

It will come quickly, don't worry.  Take some time to ask questions.  The first step is to choose a liquid.  With K there are several choices, whole full fat milk is a good one.  People have also been using alcohol/water and there are a few others too, like compounding, Ora Plus, and recently PG/water has been getting attention.  I am not sure if K has a prescription liquid available in the US.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Update.

 

Cut from .63 to .61. So far so good.

 

Marija

[[li...]]

Congrats on your new cut Marija!

[[li...]]

I watched the YouTube video regarding milk titration. I'm confused, do I dump the amount drawn by the seringe or do I drink it?. I watched him doing both, perhaps there are two ways of doing it???

[[...]]

I watched the YouTube video regarding milk titration. I'm confused, do I dump the amount drawn by the seringe or do I drink it?. I watched him doing both, perhaps there are two ways of doing it???

 

Hello,

Are you using your syringe to draw up your dose?, If so, then drink that. Are you making up more than one dose at a time? Are you dosing more than once a day?

If so, then you might want to save what's left for your next dose. Refrigerated though since you are using milk. Hope this helps a little, Rose

[Guest [Ma...]]

Congrats on your new cut Marija!

Thanks Lindana!

Good luck setting up you liquid!!

 

[[Pi...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

[[...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

[[ga...]]

I'm new to group but have already learned a lot. I was told by Dr to cut my .5 mg clonazepam to .25 for a week to start. First day was bad so took .5 the next day.

 

I'm reading that slow is way to go so next I tried cutting tab into fourths and taking 3/4 two days and a whole.5 on third day. Initially not bad except for end of 2nd day at 3/4. I'm on day 8 and feel terrible. So...what to do? Do I try to cut the 1/4 in half and restart the process? Seems like it's too small to cut accurately.

 

I am intrigued by the liquid titration and want to learn enough to try that if I can figure it out.  Been on .5 mg clonazepam for over 10 years for dystonia and hope my taper will be slow enough to prevent it from rearing its ugly head.  Need help in liquid titrating.

 

Steady dosing with gradual reduction is the way to go.  You have cut quite a bit, but have only been at the lower dose for a few days.  Honestly, I think I would go back to .5mg and hold there, then come down slowly. I agree, liquid titration is a good plan that can get you off with minimum pain if you go about it properly.

 

:thumbsup: While you hold, you can learn about titration and micro tapering. There are very, very few people who could tolerate the cut you made. Most people cut about 10% per month!

[[ga...]]

Update.

 

Cut from .63 to .61. So far so good.

 

Marija

 

[[Ju...]]

Okay, I have a plan. Tell me if it's reasonable.  Dissolve my once a day 0.5 mg clonazepam in 50ml whole milk. Drink all of it for a few days to see how the liquid suspension is absorbed.  After that, Extract 5 ml, drink remaining mixture. This would be equivalent to 10% reduction. Do this for two weeks as long as I feel okay, longer if not. 

At that point, if all is ok, do I make my next extraction 10 ml for an effective 20% reduction in the remaining solution or should it be 10% of my new level of .495 or 11% or something else???

I'm confused how to proceed.

[[li...]]

I watched the YouTube video regarding milk titration. I'm confused, do I dump the amount drawn by the seringe or do I drink it?. I watched him doing both, perhaps there are two ways of doing it???

 

Hello,

Are you using your syringe to draw up your dose?, If so, then drink that. Are you making up more than one dose at a time? Are you dosing more than once a day?

If so, then you might want to save what's left for your next dose. Refrigerated though since you are using milk. Hope this helps a little, Rose

Your response helped me a lot! I'm learning more about liquid titration before I start doing it. Still undecided between milk vs vodka/water.

[[Ju...]]

Okay, I have a plan. Tell me if it's reasonable.  Dissolve my once a day 0.5 mg clonazepam in 50ml whole milk. Drink all of it for a few days to see how the liquid suspension is absorbed.  After that, Extract 5 ml, drink remaining mixture. This would be equivalent to 10% reduction. Do this for two weeks as long as I feel okay, longer if not. 

At that point, if all is ok, do I make my next extraction 10 ml for an effective 20% reduction in the remaining solution or should it be 10% of my new level of .495 or 11% or something else???

I'm confused how to proceed.

 

Okay, mistake in math. After first cut, I'd be at 0.45. So once stabilized on that, do I go down another 10% (of .5 or of .45)?

[[an...]]

Okay, I have a plan. Tell me if it's reasonable.  Dissolve my once a day 0.5 mg clonazepam in 50ml whole milk. Drink all of it for a few days to see how the liquid suspension is absorbed.  After that, Extract 5 ml, drink remaining mixture. This would be equivalent to 10% reduction. Do this for two weeks as long as I feel okay, longer if not. 

At that point, if all is ok, do I make my next extraction 10 ml for an effective 20% reduction in the remaining solution or should it be 10% of my new level of .495 or 11% or something else???

I'm confused how to proceed.

 

Okay, mistake in math. After first cut, I'd be at 0.45. So once stabilized on that, do I go down another 10% (of .5 or of .45)?

 

10% of the 0.45

[[Pi...]]

Update.

 

I started daily micto tapering via titration from .5 mg Klonopin 2 weeks ago. I've been reducing by

.5 mL each day. I haven't felt any bad effects from this. Should I stay at this rate of taper or try to increase it? If I did increase the rate what would you suggest?

 

I'd need to first know how you make the liquid...how many mgs into how many mls?

 

SG57:

 

I dissolve .5 mg Klonopin in 2 mL vodka then add 98 mL water for a total of 100 mL. Each day I have been taking out .5 mL more than the previous day and drinking the rest. Hope that helps.

[[...]]

Okay, I have a plan. Tell me if it's reasonable.  Dissolve my once a day 0.5 mg clonazepam in 50ml whole milk. Drink all of it for a few days to see how the liquid suspension is absorbed.  After that, Extract 5 ml, drink remaining mixture. This would be equivalent to 10% reduction. Do this for two weeks as long as I feel okay, longer if not. 

At that point, if all is ok, do I make my next extraction 10 ml for an effective 20% reduction in the remaining solution or should it be 10% of my new level of .495 or 11% or something else???

I'm confused how to proceed.

 

Okay, mistake in math. After first cut, I'd be at 0.45. So once stabilized on that, do I go down another 10% (of .5 or of .45)?

 

At the risk of sticking my nose too far into your business, if you are going to use liquid and remove 10% and hold for two weeks, why not instead remove .7% each day for 14 days and make it easier on yourself?  You'll be at the same place after 14 days with both methods, but symptoms will be less intense with the daily reductions.

[[bu...]]

 

 

At the risk of sticking my nose too far into your business, if you are going to use liquid and remove 10% and hold for two weeks, why not instead remove .7% each day for 14 days and make it easier on yourself?  You'll be at the same place after 14 days with both methods, but symptoms will be less intense with the daily reductions.

 

:thumbsup:  

 

There really is very little, if any, benefit to using liquid if you are doing a cut-and-hold taper.  But...whatever works!

[[ga...]]

 

 

At the risk of sticking my nose too far into your business, if you are going to use liquid and remove 10% and hold for two weeks, why not instead remove .7% each day for 14 days and make it easier on yourself?  You'll be at the same place after 14 days with both methods, but symptoms will be less intense with the daily reductions.

 

:thumbsup:  

 

There really is very little, if any, benefit to using liquid if you are doing a cut-and-hold taper.  But...whatever works!

 

This being the micro-tapering thread, you won't be surprised to hear that I agree!