Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Are you all speaking English??

 

[[Ra...]]

Thank you SG for your patient responses and support    I feel better knowing I have a plan that should work if I need to use it 

[[Ra...]]

Are you all speaking English??

 

 

I know, I'm surprised anyone could follow my math!  I'm sure I go about it totally backwards 

 

[[do...]]

Hello Buddies,

 

Just wanted to let you all know that I was not tolerating the liquid too well, so I went back on my pills.

 

Too many withdrawal symptoms without even cutting.  I felt like I had brain damage.  I was forgetting things, felt like my self confidence took a  major dive and one of the worst things was my vision; I could not tolerate brightness and not just from the sun but the brightness from my laptop, the fluorescent lights in a store or the library.  I was forever squinting.

 

I am considering a daily dry taper or trying the liquid again minus the alcohol.

 

I read your posts daily and continue to wish you all the best.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

doodle dog,

    Please hang in there. Are you still just dosing twice a day? As your doses get smaller you might feel more W/D symptoms. I would seriously consider dosing three times a day, I'm sure it would help alleviate the horrible hypersensitivity of your nervous system. Your gaba receptors are trying to figure out what to do. Have you tried partial liquid, partial pills? If you divided your 2 doses into 3 you could very slowly switch over. I can't use alcohol so I'm using propylene glycol US Food grade kosher to dissolve my benzo then adding water and it is working good, but some days I will hold for a day. I do know for a fact that when I was just using very small amounts of milk to mix it I was having a horrible time trying to get accurate doses and I could really feel it. When you are dosing small amounts you have to be extremely accurate or you will feel the slightest miscalculation. I see that Sharkey and Builder and others were very correct about the fact that larger amounts of liquid should be used. Will pray for you, and things will get better once you stabilize.

 

Hello rdb, Marija, Anne, gardener, Shannon & Jeff (hope that I did not miss anyone),

 

Thank you so much for all of your kinds words of support and suggestions.  You guys are great and I appreciate you all.

 

Interestingly enough since going back on the pills this is the most stable that I have felt in years and my vision has gone back to normal too.

 

I will go back to liquids again tomorrow and try dosing 3x's daily.  Not sure if I will continue with the alcohol or try just water (which I understand you have to be very quick with) or try propylene glycol (where can one buy this at).

 

Thanks for all of your good wishes and prayers.

 

I hope that your tapers are going well.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

[[do...]]

Thank you SG, if I can prevail upon you just once more.  When I start my second 14 day drop, the number of MLs I start reducing from would be 85 since that's what I would be down to at the end of my first 14 days, right? 

 

Then I have my spreadsheet calculating a new 5% cut for the next 14 days. So my first cut would be my new calculation (done same as above except starting with .7125mg total daily dose) and start from 85mls and reduce from there, since that's where I left off right?  So my first reduction would bring me to a total liquid dose of 85ml - 1.02ml = 83.98ml.  I just want to make 100% sure I have my spreadsheet set up correctly.  I'm so paranoid when it comes to math and formulas.

 

Thank you so much for sticking with me 

 

No problem.

 

You drop 1.07ml/day for 14 days so, 1.07ml/day x 14 days = 15ml after 14 days.  So you are then at 85ml.

 

When you begin your next 14 day cycle, yes, you begin at 85ml...pick up where you left off.

 

Your total 14 day cut would be 5% of the new dose, which is .036mg

 

Divide that by 14 days is .0025mg/day which is 1.02ml/day.  Check

 

Your spreadsheet seems to be working well.

 

Wow SG, how do you know all of this stuff?!  I am impressed.

 

doodle dog

[[ga...]]

Here it is everybody, the proof that I am actually doing what SG told me to do!

 

http://www.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/6/2/56621493/5171387_orig.jpg

 

My Xanax is now diluted and divided into 6 doses. The uncapped bottles are doses I had already taken when I snapped the picture. They've been rinsed out and are drying. The capped bottles are the next doses to take. I always refill after my 7PM dose.

 

I am crossing over to Librium one partial dose at a a time. The bottles with rubber bands are doses that need to be taken with one 5mg capsule of Librium.

 

The little bottles are handy for putting in my purse or my pocket. However, I don't trust my 3AM brain to handle the small bottles! That one is an empty bottle that vitamins came in, thoroughly washed and rinsed, and now used for my 3AM dilution. Shockingly, I am never out and about at 3AM, so the big bottle is just fine then. 

 

 

[[do...]]

Are you all speaking English??

 

 

Ha-ha, gardener.  However, the other day when you and SG were going over your cross-over to librium my head was spinning.  Wow, you all are so smart.

 

doodle dog

[[do...]]

Here it is everybody, the proof that I am actually doing what SG told me to do!

 

http://www.weebly.com/uploads/5/6/6/2/56621493/5171387_orig.jpg

 

My Xanax is now diluted and divided into 6 doses. The uncapped bottles are doses I had already taken when I snapped the picture. They've been rinsed out and are drying. The capped bottles are the next doses to take. I always refill after my 7PM dose.

 

I am crossing over to Librium one partial dose at a a time. The bottles with rubber bands are doses that need to be taken with one 5mg capsule of Librium.

 

The little bottles are handy for putting in my purse or my pocket. However, I don't trust my 3AM brain to handle the small bottles! That one is an empty bottle that vitamins came in, thoroughly washed and rinsed, and now used for my 3AM dilution. Shockingly, I am never out and about at 3AM, so the big bottle is just fine. 

 

Hey gardener,

 

What a great system and schedule.  Thanks for sharing.  You are definitely headed in the right direction to become benzo free.

 

Did you get those little bottles off of amazon?  You posted bunch of links the other day.  Was this one of them?

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

[[ga...]]

Are you all speaking English??

 

 

Ha-ha, gardener.  However, the other day when you and SG were going over your cross-over to librium my head was spinning.  Wow, you all are so smart.

 

doodle dog

 

This would probably be the place to confess I double checked everything with my daughter before I posted it! 

[[ga...]]

 

Hey gardener,

 

What a great system and schedule.  Thanks for sharing.  You are definitely headed in the right direction to become benzo free.

 

Did you get those little bottles off of amazon?  You posted bunch of links the other day.  Was this one of them?

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

Yup!

 

Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds because of the design of the plunger, but are good for carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution. Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case. It seems to be very close to accurate. I use it to measure the water part of the dilution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIAJW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml graduated cylinder by the same company.

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

[[Ra...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

[[do...]]

 

Hey gardener,

 

What a great system and schedule.  Thanks for sharing.  You are definitely headed in the right direction to become benzo free.

 

Did you get those little bottles off of amazon?  You posted bunch of links the other day.  Was this one of them?

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

Yup!

 

Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds because of the design of the plunger, but are good for carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution. Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case. It seems to be very close to accurate. I use it to measure the water part of the dilution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIAJW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml graduated cylinder by the same company.

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

 

Thanks again, Gardener.  You think of everything.

 

Hope that your taper/crossover is going well.

 

doodle dog

 

 

[[do...]]

Are you all speaking English??

 

 

Ha-ha, gardener.  However, the other day when you and SG were going over your cross-over to librium my head was spinning.  Wow, you all are so smart.

 

doodle dog

 

This would probably be the place to confess I double checked everything with my daughter before I posted it! 

 

Well, she has your genes and is one smart girl.

[[ga...]]

 

Thanks again, Gardener.  You think of everything.

 

Hope that your taper/crossover is going well.

 

doodle dog

 

Thanks, doodle, so far so good. Only minor bumps and very worth it.

 

BTW, I have a "progress log" that I use to collect up information like this so I don't lose it. It's called Gardener's Collection. Before that I had scraps of paper everywhere and could never find then when I wanted them. Or I'd have to run a search of my amazon orders to find what I bought. When I discovered the "progress log" section of BB, I knew it was the answer!

[[ga...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Bun, have you considered using the intensol of the Xanax by Roxane that is already liquid and can be diluted with just water? (Maybe I already asked this and don't remember.)

[[do...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Yes, someone suggested that I try part pill and liquid combo too.  I may consider that.

 

Sorry to read that you have had some insomnia since cutting again.  The insomnia and vision problem made me go back to the pills for a few days.

 

With the dry method is it too hard to make the little cuts when you get  towards the end?

 

Take care,

doodle dog

[[Ra...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Yes, someone suggested that I try part pill and liquid combo too.  I may consider that.

 

Sorry to read that you have had some insomnia since cutting again.  The insomnia and vision problem made me go back to the pills for a few days.

 

With the dry method is it too hard to make the little cuts when you get  towards the end?

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

Hi Doodle,

 

Yes I think the dry method is very hard to make small accurate cuts from.  That is why I'm considering the liquid, but will keep dry pills as part of the dose as long as I can.  I do believe that the liquid is absorbed by the body quicker and therefore doesn't last as long in terms of effect.  That's the part I'm not looking forward to.  Right now I'm dosing twice a day, I don't want to have to dose more often than that.  UGH!

 

Bunny

[[...]]

Hello Buddies,

 

Just wanted to let you all know that I was not tolerating the liquid too well, so I went back on my pills.

 

Too many withdrawal symptoms without even cutting.  I felt like I had brain damage.  I was forgetting things, felt like my self confidence took a  major dive and one of the worst things was my vision; I could not tolerate brightness and not just from the sun but the brightness from my laptop, the fluorescent lights in a store or the library.  I was forever squinting.

 

I am considering a daily dry taper or trying the liquid again minus the alcohol.

 

I read your posts daily and continue to wish you all the best.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

doodle dog,

    Please hang in there. Are you still just dosing twice a day? As your doses get smaller you might feel more W/D symptoms. I would seriously consider dosing three times a day, I'm sure it would help alleviate the horrible hypersensitivity of your nervous system. Your gaba receptors are trying to figure out what to do. Have you tried partial liquid, partial pills? If you divided your 2 doses into 3 you could very slowly switch over. I can't use alcohol so I'm using propylene glycol US Food grade kosher to dissolve my benzo then adding water and it is working good, but some days I will hold for a day. I do know for a fact that when I was just using very small amounts of milk to mix it I was having a horrible time trying to get accurate doses and I could really feel it. When you are dosing small amounts you have to be extremely accurate or you will feel the slightest miscalculation. I see that Sharkey and Builder and others were very correct about the fact that larger amounts of liquid should be used. Will pray for you, and things will get better once you stabilize.

 

Hello rdb, Marija, Anne, gardener, Shannon & Jeff (hope that I did not miss anyone),

 

Thank you so much for all of your kinds words of support and suggestions.  You guys are great and I appreciate you all.

 

Interestingly enough since going back on the pills this is the most stable that I have felt in years and my vision has gone back to normal too.

 

I will go back to liquids again tomorrow and try dosing 3x's daily.  Not sure if I will continue with the alcohol or try just water (which I understand you have to be very quick with) or try propylene glycol (where can one buy this at).

 

Thanks for all of your good wishes and prayers.

 

I hope that your tapers are going well.

 

Take care,

doodle dog

 

I bought mine at Amazon, a quart was I think about $10-$12 plus shipping, total about $20.

[[Ra...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Bun, have you considered using the intensol of the Xanax by Roxane that is already liquid and can be diluted with just water? (Maybe I already asked this and don't remember.)

 

Hi Gardner,

 

I have considered that, but it requires a trip to the doc, and then I need to decide do I want the whole dose in liquid?  I don't think I do.  Also the liquid Xanax is more expensive as I recall.  If I didn't do my whole dose in the liquid, I'd still have a script for liquid and then pills.  Hard to get that through insurance. 

 

I guess my biggest issue is that I don't think I want all liquid because I'm afraid it will cause me to have to dose more often creating more complication than there already is.  If I didn't have to work, it would be an easier decision.  I've already had to take 3 months off for my acute period and I don't want to take any more time off, don't think my company would tolerate much more time off, so I have to be careful that my symptoms are tolerable.  I have to travel by plane for my job, so that just complicates everything too, at least in my mind.

 

Thank you for that suggestion though 

 

Bunny

[[...]]

No problem.

 

You drop 1.07ml/day for 14 days so, 1.07ml/day x 14 days = 15ml after 14 days.  So you are then at 85ml.

 

When you begin your next 14 day cycle, yes, you begin at 85ml...pick up where you left off.

 

Your total 14 day cut would be 5% of the new dose, which is .036mg

 

Divide that by 14 days is .0025mg/day which is 1.02ml/day.  Check

 

Your spreadsheet seems to be working well.

 

Wow SG, how do you know all of this stuff?!  I am impressed.

 

doodle dog

 

Sadly, I've been around far too long...almost five years since my taper began in August of 2010.  It's gotten to the point that I can flip the numbers in my head I'm so familiar with them.

[[ga...]]

Doodle dog,

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.  I wonder how I will fare if I switch to liquid?  I would probably do part pills and part liquid though.

 

I know, I'm so thankful for folks like SG, Builder and Sharkey for helping us with the math

 

Bunny

 

Bun, have you considered using the intensol of the Xanax by Roxane that is already liquid and can be diluted with just water? (Maybe I already asked this and don't remember.)

 

Hi Gardner,

 

I have considered that, but it requires a trip to the doc, and then I need to decide do I want the whole dose in liquid?  I don't think I do.  Also the liquid Xanax is more expensive as I recall.  If I didn't do my whole dose in the liquid, I'd still have a script for liquid and then pills.  Hard to get that through insurance. 

 

I guess my biggest issue is that I don't think I want all liquid because I'm afraid it will cause me to have to dose more often creating more complication than there already is.  If I didn't have to work, it would be an easier decision.  I've already had to take 3 months off for my acute period and I don't want to take any more time off, don't think my company would tolerate much more time off, so I have to be careful that my symptoms are tolerable.  I have to travel by plane for my job, so that just complicates everything too, at least in my mind.

 

Thank you for that suggestion though 

 

Bunny

 

That's certainly understandable. I switched to the liquid a long time ago to avoid binders and fillers (which I tend to be sensitive to). When I started tapering I was dosing 5 times/day. As I got lower, I needed to go to 6. As I got lower, even that didn't work. Xanax seems to be a very bad drug for me. The Librium cross is going OK so far. Xanax and Librium are both metabolized by the same liver enzyme, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it makes for an easier cross-over.

[[ga...]]

No problem.

 

You drop 1.07ml/day for 14 days so, 1.07ml/day x 14 days = 15ml after 14 days.  So you are then at 85ml.

 

When you begin your next 14 day cycle, yes, you begin at 85ml...pick up where you left off.

 

Your total 14 day cut would be 5% of the new dose, which is .036mg

 

Divide that by 14 days is .0025mg/day which is 1.02ml/day.  Check

 

Your spreadsheet seems to be working well.

 

Wow SG, how do you know all of this stuff?!  I am impressed.

 

doodle dog

 

Sadly, I've been around far too long...almost five years since my taper began in August of 2010.  It's gotten to the point that I can flip the numbers in my head I'm so familiar with them.

 

Well, happily, we find your ability to flip those numbers very handy around here!

[[do...]]

No problem.

 

You drop 1.07ml/day for 14 days so, 1.07ml/day x 14 days = 15ml after 14 days.  So you are then at 85ml.

 

When you begin your next 14 day cycle, yes, you begin at 85ml...pick up where you left off.

 

Your total 14 day cut would be 5% of the new dose, which is .036mg

 

Divide that by 14 days is .0025mg/day which is 1.02ml/day.  Check

 

Your spreadsheet seems to be working well.

 

Wow SG, how do you know all of this stuff?!  I am impressed.

 

doodle dog

 

Sadly, I've been around far too long...almost five years since my taper began in August of 2010.  It's gotten to the point that I can flip the numbers in my head I'm so familiar with them.

 

You have been benzo free for quite some time and still stay around to help others.  This is very kind and generous of you.  Acts of kindness make this world a better place.

[[...]]

Sadly, I've been around far too long...almost five years since my taper began in August of 2010.  It's gotten to the point that I can flip the numbers in my head I'm so familiar with them.

You have been benzo free for quite some time and still stay around to help others.  This is very kind and generous of you.  Acts of kindness make this world a better place.

 

It's weird.  My taper did not go well at all and I didn't really learn to taper properly until near the very end and I ended up with PAWS.  Yet I developed this passion for tapering.  Or maybe it is an obsessive thinking symptom, haha.  I find the best therapy for me is to use what I know to keep people from going through the mill like I did.  So in that sense I get a lot out of it.  I'm sure I'll tire of it at some point, but I've been at it for quite a while now.

[[Sh...]]

Hi MT team,

 

I have s question regarding propylene glycol as a solvent vs alcohol.  A pharmacist said she would suggest alcohol over PG.  Not sure why.  I  just find I am a bit more symptomatic on the full dose liquid using 4ml of Vodka to 1mg of Clonazepam. 96ml of water added.  Divided in half for two daily doses.  I have been doing so since July 6. I had one day where I used pills and symptoms were better.  I do not know if it is sensitivity to the liquid or to the alcohol.  I was wondering if PG is safe?  Is it prepared the same way as the alcohol and water?

 

Any guidance is appreciated. 

 

Thank you,

Shaani