Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [...]]

Is there some people that just don't do well on the micro tapering?

 

I tried it and I've crashed and burned both times.

 

I tried 0.001 mg per day, which is only 1% per week, and I can't even do that?

 

I don't have years to get off this drug, I can only take 2 years tops!

 

I can't loose my high paying job!

 

Help anyone.

 

Winnie

[[sl...]]

Hey WinnieDog,

Not sure if this is going to be much help, but I feel for you. I read your other thread about needing help, the Versed dose, and everything. I'm not an experienced buddy, and I hope others are here to support you as well; from what you're saying about being unable to lower your Adivan dose, it sounds like there are other areas of your life and mental health that need more support before you can taper further.

 

You can take this or leave what I'm going to share; I'm not a benzo expert, and I have only crashed into benzos a few times in my life, most recently getting stuck on them because my mental health has been poor and my doctor misjudged my needs for a bout of tension headaches. It was a sloppy decision by my doctor, but it's mine to live with.

 

Getting THROUGH benzo withdrawal seems to be very little about the medicine itself; that's why some people get off in two weeks, no problem. The medicine IS important because it controls the RATE of withdrawal, and therefore the pressure the individual is under to withstand certain changing physical and mental developments in their being. But the EXPERIENCE of withdrawal is not about the medicine; especially for folks who can't seem to get off, it's about the individual, growing through layers of fear, dis-ease and trauma that the benzo was covering up and is now exaggerated in withdrawal.

 

To me, it appears that surviving the benzo withdrawal is definitely a matter of symptom-based tapering. BUT, as long as the taper is not unusually rapid, the symptoms need to be managed BEYOND the medicine, as sort of life-skills building exercises. If your taper is frozen, and going lower only creates an unbearable havoc, then I suggest looking elsewhere in life for the next step. Psychotherapy, positive affirmations, breathwork, sleep hygiene, diet, exercise...

 

This isn't meant as a criticism; I don't know how you live or what you're dealing with. You're not doing anything wrong, in my opinion. I hope this is just a small reminder, the medicine withdrawal is like a test of your stress tolerance systems. If your stress tolerance systems are failing, you can't handle more withdrawal yet. Get support, IRL, get curious about your self-talk and how you handle stress, practice prayer and patience... There are tools and guides, who will come to you if you seek them out.

 

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. I'm going to be cheering for you Winnie; you deserve more support and you can do this!!! 

[[ga...]]

Is there some people that just don't do well on the micro tapering?

 

I tried it and I've crashed and burned both times.

 

I tried 0.001 mg per day, which is only 1% per week, and I can't even do that?

 

I don't have years to get off this drug, I can only take 2 years tops!

 

I can't loose my high paying job!

 

Help anyone.

 

Winnie

 

Yes, Winnie, there are people who do not do well with micro tapering. They prefer to do a 5% or 10% cut and have bad symptoms and then a period of feeling better before they make their next cut. Sometimes a taper fails because it's just not the right time to taper, no matter how you do it. If you are going through a stressful time, tapering will be harder. There have also been people who have not been able to tolerate liquid that most use to micro-taper. After I crashed very, very badly from tapering too fast, I tried to switch to micro-tapering but failed at it. What I needed was a long hold to recover from my crash, so that is what I did. After that, I was able to start micro-tapering again and did so with milder symptoms. I think it was a combination of my life being less stressful and being recovered from my crash and picking a pace that worked for me. Now I'm off. If you look at my signature, you will see it took a long time! But that's OK, because I was able to both live my life and taper once I got all my ducks in a row or stars aligned or whatever it was! Don't lose heart. You will figure this out and get off, too.

[[Ul...]]

Is there some people that just don't do well on the micro tapering?

 

I tried it and I've crashed and burned both times.

 

I tried 0.001 mg per day, which is only 1% per week, and I can't even do that?

 

I don't have years to get off this drug, I can only take 2 years tops!

 

I can't loose my high paying job!

 

Help anyone.

 

Winnie

 

Yes, Winnie, there are people who do not do well with micro tapering. They prefer to do a 5% or 10% cut and have bad symptoms and then a period of feeling better before they make their next cut. Sometimes a taper fails because it's just not the right time to taper, no matter how you do it. If you are going through a stressful time, tapering will be harder. There have also been people who have not been able to tolerate liquid that most use to micro-taper. After I crashed very, very badly from tapering too fast, I tried to switch to micro-tapering but failed at it. What I needed was a long hold to recover from my crash, so that is what I did. After that, I was able to start micro-tapering again and did so with milder symptoms. I think it was a combination of my life being less stressful and being recovered from my crash and picking a pace that worked for me. Now I'm off. If you look at my signature, you will see it took a long time! But that's OK, because I was able to both live my life and taper once I got all my ducks in a row or stars aligned or whatever it was! Don't lose heart. You will figure this out and get off, too.

 

The Gardie-Meister!!! What up, beautiful lady??!! I miss you, but glad you're moving along. I'll be taking my last k dose in about 8 days. Bless you, my sweet!

 

xoxo

[[ga...]]

Is there some people that just don't do well on the micro tapering?

 

I tried it and I've crashed and burned both times.

 

I tried 0.001 mg per day, which is only 1% per week, and I can't even do that?

 

I don't have years to get off this drug, I can only take 2 years tops!

 

I can't loose my high paying job!

 

Help anyone.

 

Winnie

 

Yes, Winnie, there are people who do not do well with micro tapering. They prefer to do a 5% or 10% cut and have bad symptoms and then a period of feeling better before they make their next cut. Sometimes a taper fails because it's just not the right time to taper, no matter how you do it. If you are going through a stressful time, tapering will be harder. There have also been people who have not been able to tolerate liquid that most use to micro-taper. After I crashed very, very badly from tapering too fast, I tried to switch to micro-tapering but failed at it. What I needed was a long hold to recover from my crash, so that is what I did. After that, I was able to start micro-tapering again and did so with milder symptoms. I think it was a combination of my life being less stressful and being recovered from my crash and picking a pace that worked for me. Now I'm off. If you look at my signature, you will see it took a long time! But that's OK, because I was able to both live my life and taper once I got all my ducks in a row or stars aligned or whatever it was! Don't lose heart. You will figure this out and get off, too.

 

The Gardie-Meister!!! What up, beautiful lady??!! I miss you, but glad you're moving along. I'll be taking my last k dose in about 8 days. Bless you, my sweet!

 

xoxo

 

Oh wow, oh wow!!! 8 days to zero??!! What wonderful news. CONGRATULATIONS! Your perseverance has always been an inspiration to me. I'm so happy for you.

[[Ul...]]

Is there some people that just don't do well on the micro tapering?

 

I tried it and I've crashed and burned both times.

 

I tried 0.001 mg per day, which is only 1% per week, and I can't even do that?

 

I don't have years to get off this drug, I can only take 2 years tops!

 

I can't loose my high paying job!

 

Help anyone.

 

Winnie

 

Yes, Winnie, there are people who do not do well with micro tapering. They prefer to do a 5% or 10% cut and have bad symptoms and then a period of feeling better before they make their next cut. Sometimes a taper fails because it's just not the right time to taper, no matter how you do it. If you are going through a stressful time, tapering will be harder. There have also been people who have not been able to tolerate liquid that most use to micro-taper. After I crashed very, very badly from tapering too fast, I tried to switch to micro-tapering but failed at it. What I needed was a long hold to recover from my crash, so that is what I did. After that, I was able to start micro-tapering again and did so with milder symptoms. I think it was a combination of my life being less stressful and being recovered from my crash and picking a pace that worked for me. Now I'm off. If you look at my signature, you will see it took a long time! But that's OK, because I was able to both live my life and taper once I got all my ducks in a row or stars aligned or whatever it was! Don't lose heart. You will figure this out and get off, too.

 

The Gardie-Meister!!! What up, beautiful lady??!! I miss you, but glad you're moving along. I'll be taking my last k dose in about 8 days. Bless you, my sweet!

 

xoxo

 

Oh wow, oh wow!!! 8 days to zero??!! What wonderful news. CONGRATULATIONS! Your perseverance has always been an inspiration to me. I'm so happy for you.

 

 

[[Tr...]]

Just checking back in - I started micro taper 2 weeks ago. Instead of a 2-3% drop followed by 2 weeks of losing my sh!t, I have tapered 2% and I’m doing pretty okay. 👍🏻

 

I feel weird daily from about 12-3 then get withdrawal symptoms at 5pm (dizziness, visual spots, light headedness, some air hunger). I dose at 0600 and 1800, so it makes sense.

 

I have been sleeping good, been able to do some gardening, even went on a mile walk on my lunch break one day.

 

Thank you for your help badsocref! I taper 0.002g every 4 days. (I drop my pm dose by 0.001g for two days, then drop am dose as well for 2 days.)

This will take 2 years or so, but seems to be tolerable.

 

Heading into hormonal week and it’s always worse, so I’m hesitant to keep tapering, but I’m going to give it a go. 

 

Hope you are all keeping up the good fight.

 

[[sl...]]

(I posted this also in the Withdrawal Support section, I hope I'm not breaking any rules!)

 

I've only been on clonazepam for 4 months; this is my third and only educated taper. I just recently switched to a liquid/tablet hybrid daily micro taper. I began tapering in general at 2mg/day a month ago, and I did two cut-and-holds of a quarter pill (0.125mg) for 14 days each. The cuts were rough, but manageable. I noticed that many days seemed wasted recovering from the shock of the sudden dosage drop, so I designed a liquid/tablet hybrid DMT hoping for a smoother ride with less wasted time.

 

Four days ago I began the DMT at 1.75mg/day, removed a quarter pill but replaced most of it with a liquid clonazepam MCT oil suspension that was pharmacist compounded. I am following a 9%/14day DMT taper rate.

 

Every day, since day one on the DMT taper I've felt EXHAUSTED and depressed. Extremely tired, difficult dressing, moving, brushing teeth; I can't walk or drive anywhere. Just one day earlier I was driving myself (for the first few times in MONTHS) to the beach, going for long walks, taking phone calls, all while wrapping up a second ~7% cut-and-hold; honestly that hold felt like I was recovered on day 10, but I waited until day 14 to start the DMT.

 

Today I'm just crawling through day 4 of the DMT. I've cried a lot in the last two days; I'm in the usual head and muscle pains and I'm anxious but mostly very depressed. I've I heard people run into bumps switching to liquid, but I think this is more of a bump from switching to DMT (my liquid portion is like 7% of my daily dose or similar). Instead of the anxious energy I get after a cut, I'm confused, disoriented and exhausted. I was feeling a little over-sedated when I got up to 2mg/day at first three months ago, but I think since I started tapering (including my failed rapid taper), reinstated and kept cutting, I've actually been more anxious and energized.

 

Now that my taper rate is gentler (even though it's "faster"), I suspect I'm feeling the over-sedating quality of this dosage of medication. It has also had four months to build up in my system, which at least with cannabinoids (my only other recent psyche medication), may be lending to a stronger effect. I also feel best right before I take my next dose; I'm noticing about 30 minute to an hour of clearer thoughts, and a little more energy right before the next of my 4 daily doses. This is making it really hard to want to take my next dose!

 

Is there anything I can do at this point? I'm only 4 days in, so I don't feel like I know whether this is a wave or just an adjustment period; I wouldn't want to cut harder only to get worse. I would really appreciate anyone's reflections or experience with this kind of exhaustion; I'm really second-guessing my DMT switch, but maybe my body just needs rest?

 

Thank you!

[Guest [ba...]]

SlowNSteady - a couple of things come to mind.

 

First - when switching from solid to liquid, it's not uncommon to feel as though you are absorbing less medicine.  To compensate, it may be necessary to up-dose by 5-10% - maybe more if you tended to let the pills sit/dissolve in your mouth for any length of time.  It would have been good to have gotten stable on the solid/liquid hybrid dosing for at least a week before beginning a taper.

 

Second - 9% per two weeks may be too aggressive a pace - especially when combined with the above absorbance issue.  It's important to adjust taper rates before symptoms get nasty. 

 

If your symptoms have gotten as bad as it sounds, I think I'd consider returning to the starting solid/liquid hybrid dose and get stable.  You may have to do the aforementioned minor up-dose.  Then begin a symptom-based daily micro taper.  If symptoms are bad, cut less or just hold until you feel decent 'enough' to continue.

[[sl...]]

Thanks for your reply badsocref! I think I understand your concern, and I was aware of the liquid absorbancy issue. It doesn't sound like you understand my tapering method, however; I'm sorry if I'm the one confused, but let me explain. I'm reducing by the smallest tablet cut that I can do, 1/4 pill. I've done this twice now, and the only thing that's different about my rate in this respect is timing; I was thinking of taking another quarter pill in 11 days making it 9% in 14 days; for now it's the same drop as usual (give or take 7% current dose).

 

The liquid portion is ONLY coming in to smooth the taper by replacing that missing quarter pill and then tapering down over 11 days to nothing. Twice now I've done roughly this same taper rate without any liquid medicine; so the liquid medicine shouldn't be making things any harder. If I didn't absorb ANY of the liquid, I'd just be taking a quarter pill cut, and I'd just be holding until I feel stable and HOPING for 11 days, but if not, 12, 13, 14, whatever. I can't understand the point in removing the 1/4 tablet, taking an equivalent (or higher) in liquid and waiting to adjust; I'll just be removing the liquid entirely over the next two weeks to advance the taper. This is the major "problem" with a hybrid liquid/tablet taper; you never adjust to the liquid because it's just a vanishing cushion.

 

Am I making any sense? I did not expect to have any strong withdrawal symptoms caused by the liquid at this point, for the reasons stated above. Maybe I missed something. It seems like I just got used to the manic energy that comes with a harder cut, and instead my body is crying out for rest. I've had emotions the last few days, which is actually really good in the long run; I was feeling emotionless when I was stable five days ago.

 

Edit: One lingering thought... I've been taking my morning half tablet, and a few minutes later swallowing the liquid clonazepam. Since I always take my medicine on an empty stomach, this is the one dose that is allowed some fat to be swallowed at the same time. While this seems WILDLY theoretical, I may be diluting or at least delaying that half tablet by the liquid dose that comes after, making for some unusual, possibly reduced absorbancy of the tablet portion as well as the liquid. It's just a thought. I could try taking the tablet and the liquid 15 minutes apart tomorrow.

[Guest [ba...]]

I understand that you are only using liquid for a very small amount of your dose.  Still, it's when you used liquid (instead of solid) that you experienced more severe symptoms.  So I'm thinking that the liquid formulation isn't doing you want it to do and you're basically experiencing larger cuts than intended.

 

Can you go back to weighing out crushed pills instead of using liquid??  If you did a round of that and didn't experience the same problems, you could be pretty sure it was the liquid.

[[Li...]]

slownsteady: The symptoms you’ve described (extremely tired, depressed mood) make me wonder if you are getting a slightly higher dose than you were before. Do you know what your compounding pharmacist used for the drug source in your liquid?  Regular tablets or the active pharmaceutical ingredient (i.e. the pure drug powder minus the excipients found in regular tablets)? If s/he used regular tablets, were they the same strength, from the same manufacturer and the same batch as the tablets you have been taking? 

[[sl...]]

Basdsocref; yes, I guess a next step might be to buy a scale and try the same DMT taper rate with just tablets. I don't own a scale; I'm cheap-scale-skittish, but I'll take a look at Amazon today.

 

Libertas; I had the same thoughts initially. My pharmacist used pure clonazepam powder. It's basically the pure clonazepam, MCT oil, and a vegetable-derived "bitter blocker", that make up the entire liquid formula. She did not use tablets. Would the formula above feel stronger than my tablets, for some reason?

 

The fact that the wave of depression came on the very first day I supplemented with liquid makes me think the liquid did SOMETHING; I immediately lost my ability to go for walks, or even dress and move around easily. And every day since then I'm taking a little less liquid, and feeling a little more coherent and functional. My liquid dose is in the AM, and I feel pretty good before taking it, I crash with the depression/fatigue an hour or so later and I seem to almost recover entirely 12 hours later, just before bed. Of course, by bed time I'm taking "stronger" tablet doses, usually out of a bath, and winding down for bed. Because I feel better at the times I'm on the larger tablet dosages I kept thinking it was in a wave of withdrawal.

 

I was hoping this was just a wave that corresponded with my shift in adding a little liquid, and that it also was my fatigue from the last month of cut-and-hold anxiety. But I have yet to experience any wave that comes back at the same time each morning, and around the time when the same dose peaks. Previously ALL of my cut-and-hold waves have been anxiety-based, random times of day or after a nightmare, and they last a couple hours tops. This depression/exhaustion has lasted almost all day the first two days, then it's only slightly lessened the last two days; always coming back again after the AM dose. Still haven't managed a walk, or my regular meal schedule.

 

Lastly, while I'm on the liquid dose, I can't seem to use the computer or phone or make any future plans, but my headaches are minimal; again, for me this is seemingly like an up-dose rather than a drop. I'm writing this reply in the AM before dosing; I feel alert and only "regularly" depressed.

 

Is it possible the liquid is stronger than the tablets? Is that a crazy idea?

 

In my current position, do you agree my best option is to ride out this liquid taper and see if the depression/exhaustion decreases with the liquid portion? I took 0.91ml on day 1, and I'm taking 0.54ml or so today; I'll be off the liquid entirely at this rate in 6 more days. I'm thinking I could hold the last three days to day 14, and then call it a 7.1% cut for the 2-weeks; these last three days might be very revealing.

 

Thank you both for your thoughts and ideas!

[Guest [ba...]]

$25 won't break the bank too badly, I hope.  I'm a total tight wad too, fwiw. 

 

Difficult to know how to proceed.  If the oil is too strong, then perhaps you will start feeling better as you taper it.  If it's too weak (or you're absorbing it poorly), then I'd expect you to feel worse as you continue.  It sucks to be a guinea pig, but sometimes that's the only way to figure things out.

 

I think the most important thing is to not let yourself get over-stretched with the taper.  Some discomfort is normal (expected), but we don't want you bed bound.  Nobody can know how you're feeling or how close to your 'limits' you are except for you.  If things get too nasty, then consider returning to the last point at which you were more or less stable.

[[sl...]]

Thanks for your encouragement badsocref; yeah, sucks to be the guinea pig, this is why I'm ready to be done with medications for good. My psyche NP brought up SSRIs just as a thought, and I can't imagine that will make things better in the long run.

 

I'm skittish of cheap scales because I'm afraid of inaccuracies. I guess I could buy two and compare them; I am a tight wad, but not when it comes to avoiding ER visits. Do people buy two scales to reassure themselves? Is that ever necessary? My chemistry major friend couldn't believe people were measuring mgs on 25 dollar scales.

 

I guess I can count my blessings in that I've yet to get bed bound for more than a few daylight hours since my THC overdose. The headaches suck; I walk around like a zombie sometimes, but I'm still mobile. Yesterday I was noticing that the biggest obstacle I'm facing with this K taper is the stories I tell myself when things change in unexpected ways... in short, scary stories don't help!

 

I tried taking my tablet and liquid doses 15 minutes apart today, to no obvious benefit. The liquid felt like it started squashing me in minutes, and I've been an anxious lump all morning. I am feeling a little more anxiety today, which is good? Feels more like a cut finally.

 

My pharmacist thought that the liquid is likely being absorbed more quickly than the tablets; odd because I expected the opposite, but her idea coincides with my intense feelings of AM lethargy. If this is the case, you could say I'm getting that "vanishing cushion" with a little too much spring.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to try taking the 8pm half tablet as usual, then the liquid dose 30 minutes later with breakfast (raw eggs, fruit, and honey). That might slow down the liquid effect. I'll report back.

 

If all else fails, and I still want to try using liquid substitution, I could fudge the potency in my spreadsheet and pretend I have a more potent liquid. The cut would feel harder, but that might (emphasis on "might") mitigate the over-sedation problem. I'm reluctant to go back to pure cut and holds; those were not fun.

 

I'm trying to be cautious. I'm going to follow through decreasing the liquid portion at the 9%/14-day rate until day 11, when I'll be back to tablets only. Then I'll see how I'm feeling. If things are getting worse (depression or anxiety wise), I'll be holding.

[Guest [ba...]]

Those little GEM-20 scales actually do a pretty good job for the money.  Up until about a year ago I owned/ran a cannabis Q/A lab (it's still open, but I turned 65 and sold my half).  We used one of those little GEM-20 balances regularly.  It usually calibrated within 3 mg which was only slightly worse than the multi-hundred dollar analytical balances that we also used.  There are strategies for weighing very small doses on those balances.

 

But if you want to spend more $$ on a balance, there are certainly many available.

[[sl...]]

Thank you for these reassurances badsocref! That's really impressive you owned and ran a cannabis QA lab; I wish we had that to talk about instead of benzos!

 

If I was going to buy either the Smart Weight Premium ($36) or the Smart Weight Gem20 ($22), would you have an opinion on which one is more reliable? Or easier to use?

 

The Premium has a nicer look and a hard case, the capacity is double the Gem20 (which I don't care about) but because of this the calibration weights are also double the Gem20, and my high school chemistry memory says that larger calibration weights yield less accurate calibrations. Am I just making that up?

 

I've been trying to avoid dry tapering because I'm so unfamiliar with dry weighing procedures and accuracy. I should probably watch that YouTube video Pamster posted... Any other tips are welcome!

[Guest [ba...]]

Lots of fun stories from the testing lab days.  I had hoped to be there part time last year, but once COVID hit, I disappeared.  I also got to work on cannabinoids and terpenes the last 5-6 years that I worked at the university, but the rules I had to follow were pretty tight. 

 

The balances will probably work pretty similarly.  Checking calibration using a 10 g weight does seem a bit weird if you're only weighing out samples weighing less than 100 mg.  You could buy additional weight standards, but I wouldn't really recommend it.  We had to check the accuracy every day we used it, and it was nearly always within acceptable limits.  We only rarely had to calibrate it (like maybe every six months). 

[[Fr...]]

Hey guys; I haven't been on here for a long time. My sign is probably way out of date.

 

To get started I haven't begun a taper again yet. I'm just wondering from anecdotal experiences, has a symptomless taper been developed yet? And what sort of timeliness am I looking at for 3mg Klonopin a day? I know better to taper faster than I can manage. . . Just wondering what others thoughts were.

 

Also I'm not sure what the equivalent diazepam dose is or if it's even worth it. But I do intend on a liquid microtaper. Thanks! Hope you all feel better.

[[ho...]]

Just checking back in - I started micro taper 2 weeks ago. Instead of a 2-3% drop followed by 2 weeks of losing my sh!t, I have tapered 2% and I’m doing pretty okay. 👍🏻

 

I feel weird daily from about 12-3 then get withdrawal symptoms at 5pm (dizziness, visual spots, light headedness, some air hunger). I dose at 0600 and 1800, so it makes sense.

 

I have been sleeping good, been able to do some gardening, even went on a mile walk on my lunch break one day.

 

Thank you for your help badsocref! I taper 0.002g every 4 days. (I drop my pm dose by 0.001g for two days, then drop am dose as well for 2 days.)

 

 

This will take 2 years or so, but seems to be tolerable.

 

Heading into hormonal week and it’s always worse, so I’m hesitant to keep tapering, but I’m going to give it a go. 

 

Hope you are all keeping up the good fight.

 

 

Hi ....You are ahead of me... so I will be watching you and listening to what you are experiencing.  I just started my DLMT a few nights ago.  I am really hoping this makes a difference in my taper.  I am glad to see that so far it seems tolerable for you, I am hoping I have the same results. It just go to be too hard on me the other way.  After a long hold, I have been feeling so much better and my quality of life is so much better. I really want to continue with this.

 

Hoping for the best for all of us 

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

Hey guys; I haven't been on here for a long time. My sign is probably way out of date.

 

To get started I haven't begun a taper again yet. I'm just wondering from anecdotal experiences, has a symptomless taper been developed yet? And what sort of timeliness am I looking at for 3mg Klonopin a day? I know better to taper faster than I can manage. . . Just wondering what others thoughts were.

 

Also I'm not sure what the equivalent diazepam dose is or if it's even worth it. But I do intend on a liquid microtaper. Thanks! Hope you all feel better.

 

Hi Frotob -  Nice to see you back on track.  I know 1 mg of K is 20mg of V, so I would think 1.5 would be 30.  I’m sure someone with more experience will correct me if I am wrong.  I tried doing a wean from K and it was harder than the V for me.  That is my personal experience.  I did do a c/o but I did not follow the Ashton C/O protocol and I was in a world of hurt, so I do recommend that you follow that if you are going to switch over to the V.  Also from what I have been reading/learning and my own experience now, it seems the slower one goes, the less SX one has.  But not everyone even has bad SX with weaning, it’s only a certain % of the population and many factors are involved.  Did you have bad SX with your last taper(s)?  I do think going too fast and the % of drop down plays a huge part in the amount of SX one experiences.  So you will just have to figure out what benzo you are going to wean from, then what % works for you, and how long you will need to hold for.  I was really set on an end date......I had to let that go.  I know I have made good progress, but at a cost that had me pretty much couch bound.  So now it may take me another year, but at least I will have “quality” of life.  So I am not stuck on any time frame....it’s freeing 

 

Marie

[[sl...]]

I'm celebrating your progress Treelover! You deserve a gentle taper; I'm so glad you've found something that's more manageable for you. Badsocref is the best; I'm buying a scale this week to try the dry approach.

 

Frotob welcome back. Marie is right, but I think you said you are on 3mg of K which is going to be 60mg of V (according to Ashton). Definitely do a SLOW crossover if you do; take a month, from what I've read. I keep learning that for those of us who've ended up here in benzo support, for whatever reasons, the slow way is the fast way. Forget your timeline if you can; you won't know it until you're far along it, I suspect; you'll want a year or two to be kind to yourself and survive mistakes, and you may need longer. You'll need to explore methods and then life will throw you curve balls, and maybe the best goal for now is just less medicine.

 

I recently switched to a liquid/tablet hybrid DMT; I was hoping to minimize any bumps from the liquid by keeping it as a minimum of my daily dosing (it's just the diminishing cushion to the 1/4 pill cut from one of four doses). I was doing fine with pure tablets, I just couldn't cut them small enough and didn't want to buy a scale...

 

Well, after an absolutely hellish week on my new protocol (severe cognitive impairment, extreme fatigue, waves of total body pain), it appears that something in my pharmacist compounded liquid formula gives me a strong inflammatory reaction. I've been all over this thread and the withdrawal support, calling my pharmacist, trying to figure out if I was metabolizing the medicine funny, or if this was a strange new WD pattern (came on EVERY time I took my liquid and passed largely 12 hours later). Finally yesterday my functional medicine doctor agreed something in the liquid suspension agent is triggering my body to go haywire. The formula my pharmacist used contains MCT oil (likely from palm), various lipids, glycerol, and a vegetable-based "bitter blocker".

 

So just to update the group, I've dropped the liquid portion of my taper, and I'm going to hang on at my current tablet dose until I've stabilized. If it takes the remainder of 14 days, it'll be a 7.1% cut. If I cut again on day 11, it'll be a 9% cut. Either way, I have options, anything will be better than the last week! To think I'd MISS my cut-and-hold symptoms.

 

Plus my functional medicine doctor (my prescribing doctor) gave me the thumbs up to do a dry DMT, or even to mix my own ethanol solutions or MCT suspensions if I need to. He said he'd only push back if I suggest snorting the stuff. 

[[ho...]]

Slownsteady- I was following/lurking.  I’m glad you have a good plan moving forward.  I’m sorry to hear the liquid didn’t work out for you.  I just recently switched to liquid V compounded by my pharmacist and all went smooth, and I was able to start my DLMT 4 nights ago.  I was worried that maybe the liquid might not work for me, as for some it doesn’t.  At least you have the option of the DMT. Now you can stabilize and move forward  Your comment about “snorting” made me laugh. Thank You. 

 

Marie

[[Fr...]]

I'm celebrating your progress Treelover! You deserve a gentle taper; I'm so glad you've found something that's more manageable for you. Badsocref is the best; I'm buying a scale this week to try the dry approach.

 

Frotob welcome back. Marie is right, but I think you said you are on 3mg of K which is going to be 60mg of V (according to Ashton). Definitely do a SLOW crossover if you do; take a month, from what I've read. I keep learning that for those of us who've ended up here in benzo support, for whatever reasons, the slow way is the fast way. Forget your timeline if you can; you won't know it until you're far along it, I suspect; you'll want a year or two to be kind to yourself and survive mistakes, and you may need longer. You'll need to explore methods and then life will throw you curve balls, and maybe the best goal for now is just less medicine.

 

I recently switched to a liquid/tablet hybrid DMT; I was hoping to minimize any bumps from the liquid by keeping it as a minimum of my daily dosing (it's just the diminishing cushion to the 1/4 pill cut from one of four doses). I was doing fine with pure tablets, I just couldn't cut them small enough and didn't want to buy a scale...

 

Well, after an absolutely hellish week on my new protocol (severe cognitive impairment, extreme fatigue, waves of total body pain), it appears that something in my pharmacist compounded liquid formula gives me a strong inflammatory reaction. I've been all over this thread and the withdrawal support, calling my pharmacist, trying to figure out if I was metabolizing the medicine funny, or if this was a strange new WD pattern (came on EVERY time I took my liquid and passed largely 12 hours later). Finally yesterday my functional medicine doctor agreed something in the liquid suspension agent is triggering my body to go haywire. The formula my pharmacist used contains MCT oil (likely from palm), various lipids, glycerol, and a vegetable-based "bitter blocker".

 

So just to update the group, I've dropped the liquid portion of my taper, and I'm going to hang on at my current tablet dose until I've stabilized. If it takes the remainder of 14 days, it'll be a 7.1% cut. If I cut again on day 11, it'll be a 9% cut. Either way, I have options, anything will be better than the last week! To think I'd MISS my cut-and-hold symptoms.

 

Plus my functional medicine doctor (my prescribing doctor) gave me the thumbs up to do a dry DMT, or even to mix my own ethanol solutions or MCT suspensions if I need to. He said he'd only push back if I suggest snorting the stuff. 

 

Yes I expect to start a taper soon, however. I am terrified of akathisia. I kinda think it's the escitalopram that caused it. During my last taper attempt. I am wondering if it would be beneficial to taper off that first. I know this isn't the right place to ask.

 

My theory is once I got down low enough (back then) 6mg valium . . . It didn't mask the effects of the lexapro. (Which I didn't tolerate until the doctor added 1mg Ativan)

 

I realize I'm already deep in the benzo hole but I really can't afford to make that type of mistake again. I was cutting SO slowly too.

[[je...]]

Hi! Just after some advice.

 

Is it possible to successfully do a dry micro taper off klonopin if the smallest tablet is 0.5mg?