Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

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Does anyone have the link to the microtapering form that you fill in to get your daily pull amount? It has a bunch of boxes where you put in your medication, and your pill size, how many pill and how much fluid you dissolve them in, etc. And it calculates your pull amount from it giving you a list of how much you should pull each day that is calculated to your last dose.

 

Thanks!

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Hi,

 

Look for: Jim Hawks tapering plan.

 

Best of luck!

 

Trochsetter

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Unknownorigin, I believe this is Jim Hawks tapering plan

 

Benzo.alwaysdata.net

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Thanks all!

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Hi all,

I'm on 3 mg Valium and when I hit 2 mg I'd like to do the rest using. Milk taper... Can I ask for some help?

 

Is 120ml reasonable for 2mg? I've read people complain that they worry that are not dosing properly because they can't see it dissolved in milk. Is that something I need to worry about? Do I crush the tabs before putting it in the jar? Please let me know step by step detailed instructions (or a link to it). Thank you so much appreciate o

in advance!

 

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Hello, SuperJess.  I don’t have personal experience with making a homebrew liquid using milk, but I’ve read here and elsewhere that this approach has been used successfully by many individuals over the years for both diazepam and clonazepam.

 

My understanding of the theory behind this approach is that diazepam and clonazepam are lipophilic. Consequently, these drug molecules have an “affinity” for the fat molecules in the milk (if the milk is high fat). Because the fat molecules are in suspension with the water in the milk, the drug molecules are distributed evenly throughout the milk (if the milk is homogenized).

 

Here are some examples of how individuals have prepared benzo/milk liquids:

 

micro taper method - Benzo breakthrough (diazepam)

https://www.unintentionaladdict.com/micro-taper-method.html

 

J Stone (clonazepam)

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=232589.msg2985248#msg2985248

 

Crazy Canuck - Benzo Detox (clonazepam)

 

In terms of tips, I’ve read that reducing the tablet into smaller, same-sized particles before adding the milk is helpful. This can be accomplished by crushing or grinding the tablet. Or, another technique is to disperse the tablet with a small amount of water and then use a glass stirring rod to make a slurry before adding the milk (if you decide to use this technique, be sure to include the volume of water used in the total volume of the liquid).

 

[[Su...]]

Libertas this is really amazing stuff here. Thanks for posting the links - truly appreciated! I watched Crazy Canucks' videos (as a fellow Canadian I appreciated them) as I appreciate you for responding to my post!

 

Surely you are so kind to do so. I am going to try it when I get to 2mg and see how it goes.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

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Sharkey1911, Could you explain how you came up with  0.714% or 0.007mg a day? My Benzo brain doesn't understand!  And are you doing this with dry cuts and a scale? Would this be possible with a water taper too?

 

I'm currently doing a water taper with 75 mg of Gabapentin and making no progress because of bad symptoms.  I would like to try this before i give up and updose. Would it work for a water taper? I'm also holding at 8 mg of Valium and would like to use this method once i get off the gabapentin. I have a scale for the valium taper but don't understand the math.

 

Many thanks!

 

Here's the quote from your initial post?

"Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day".

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SuperJess: You are most welcome.  I’m glad you found the information and resources helpful.

 

Whitewillow:  Sharkey1911 hasn’t logged into the forum since August 14, 2019.  Let’s see if I can help.  He arrived at those figures by dividing by the number of days in the taper interval. In his example, that’s 14.  So:

 

10%/14 = 0.714% per day

 

0.1mg/14 =  0.007mg per day

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Sharkey1911, Could you explain how you came up with  0.714% or 0.007mg a day? My Benzo brain doesn't understand!  And are you doing this with dry cuts and a scale? Would this be possible with a water taper too?

 

I'm currently doing a water taper with 75 mg of Gabapentin and making no progress because of bad symptoms.  I would like to try this before i give up and updose. Would it work for a water taper? I'm also holding at 8 mg of Valium and would like to use this method once i get off the gabapentin. I have a scale for the valium taper but don't understand the math.

 

Many thanks!

 

Here's the quote from your initial post?

"Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day".

 

Just letting you know...Sharkey hasn't been around for years. He started this thread and then completed his taper and is no longer checking in here. I stay in touch with him every now and then, and he's doing really well   (Oops...just now saw the other post saying he's gone)

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Thank you for letting me know, Ultra

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Hello All

 

Hoping for some math help.

 

I am at 6mg Diazepam - taken 2mg x3 daily.

 

I would like to start reducing my morning 2mg dose - I have my scale and file and I have weighed x10 2mg tablets and they range from 0.169 to 0.176 in weight with an average of 0.174.

 

So, I want to start very slowly at 0.001 to see how I react. What I don’t understand is the different pill weights etc and if I shave from one that is heavier than another. My brain is really dumb right now….

 

Any support appreciated. Thank you. Maa.

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It's the variances in your scale and the variances in the pills that make it difficult when you're doing such a small taper.  After several weeks of tapering you will be taken off larger chunks and these variances will be the noise.  In the meantime just do the best you can.

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Thank you Bob!

 

So, just to clarify please - I just take any 1 of the 10 pills whether it is weighing 0.169 or 0.176 to start with and file off 0.001, then next day any of the remaining pills and take off 0.002 until I have gone through all 10 weighed pills?

 

Sorry for being a pain 

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Correct.

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Thank you, thank you!  :)

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Hopefully someone can help with this question, I’ll also speak to my compound pharmacist, when you make a home solution of just your valium pill and water, how long does it last before it loses it’s effectiveness? Before it expires essentially, can I put it the fridge for a few days, how many days will it keep its strength?

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Hi MAA,

 

I used the same method. Absolutely no problems. Just shave off one more 0,001 every day.  I wrote down the number without the comma: so just: 156, 155, 154 etcetera. Takes a "while" but gets you down to where you want to jump or walk off!

 

Good luck with your taper!

 

Trochsetter

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Hi all - given the number of posts in this group, I feel certain I am asking you to cover old ground, but it is daunting to me to search through so many posts, my apologies.  And thanks to folks that respond.

 

I have been using cut and hold to reduce my Clonazapam from 1.5 mg per day down to .875, holding till August 6.  When I reach the point where I am taking a quarter of a pill with each of my three doses I will transfer to DMT using liquid dosing from our compounding pharmacy. I do not intend to titrate - call me simple minded!  And I am math challenged.

 

How do I establish an accurate daily dose, assuming I will dose 3 or 4 times per day (I am assuming I will go up to 4 to keep my blood levels more consistent and try to avert symptoms.)

 

Can someone give me a formula for this starting with a 0.375 total daily dose and walking down from there by a reasonable reduction per day?  I have done GREAT with the cut and hold - am just now starting to have a little insomnia.  In all other ways I am much better. I feel very lucky to have had a relatively unremarkable taper so far.

 

Thanks,

Butterfly 🦋

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Hi CioCioSan1702 A.K.A Butterfly,

 

I will help you will the math.

 

But first, something else you should know which helped me with the insomnia.  If insomnia is your biggest issue, then try what I did.  I found if I could get a good night of sleep, I could handle daytime withdrawal issues.  So I started changing things so I took most of my benzo just before bed and then, each time I woke up and had troubles going back to sleep, I took my second or third dose.  I did not worry about day time dosing.  Clonazapam seemed to stay in my system long enough each day.  Just a thought for you.

 

So when you get to 1/4 pills so you are taking 3 times a day for a total of 0.375mg you want to go to a compounding pharmacy to get a liquid dose.

 

Before I do any math, I think you need to talk to the pharmacy as follows:

Tell them you want to plan for the future, when you reach 0.375mg a day.

Tell them you plan to take the 0.375mg in 3 doses each day.

Ask them what options they have available in terms of mg per mL of liquid (mg/mL).

 

Let me know the (mg/mL) number and I will help you with a taper schedule.

 

 

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Hopefully someone can help with this question, I’ll also speak to my compound pharmacist, when you make a home solution of just your valium pill and water, how long does it last before it loses it’s effectiveness? Before it expires essentially, can I put it the fridge for a few days, how many days will it keep its strength?

 

Hello, WPWP. To our knowledge, homebrew liquids made with regular tablets and water have not been tested for potency (strength) or stability over time.  We also do not not know if these homebrew liquids are solutions, suspensions, a combination thereof, or something else.

 

Given the above, I suggest you regard your homebrew liquid as a “suspension/solution of unknown potency and stability.”  Shake the liquid well before using it.  Measure quickly.  If you store the liquid, protect it from light, heat, and evaporation and discard it after a short amount of time. Also, do not combine leftover liquid from an old batch with a new batch.

 

Regarding storage ... the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices — which has several pharmacists on its advisory board — suggests that homebrew suspensions made with a pharmaceutical-grade suspending vehicle should be used within 24 hours if stored at room temperature and within 3 days if refrigerated. Surviving Antidepressants — a peer support forum — suggests that homebrew liquids made with water should be stored in the refrigerator and used within 5 days. 

[[Ci...]]

Thanks very much Bob7 - I will not be talking to the pharmacist for a few weeks, I apologize.  I probably have at least one more Pdoc appointment and he’ll send the prescription to that pharmacy.  I will talk with the Pdoc about it, but he is probably going to go with what the pharmacist is used to doing.  Very sorry, wish I had more concrete info at this point.  Is there a solution strength I should ask for?

 

Thank you for the kind response!

 

Best,

Butterfly 🦋

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I never used a compound pharma but I would guess it would be best to have something between 0.01mg/mL to 0.1mg/mL (perhaps closer to 0.1mg/mL to start with and in time go down to 0.01mg/mL near the end of your taper).

 

[[Ci...]]

That makes total sense, thanks very much!

 

Butterfly 🦋