Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [ba...]]

Valium's more difficult with daily cuts since a cut takes well over a week for a reduction to be fully realized.  I actually think that a more traditional cut and hold might be more appropriate when tapering valium.  Daily cuts rely on daily feedback, and that simply isn't possible with valium.

 

Ashton was big into moving patients into valium, and I think that explains the recommended 10-14 day wait between cuts.  It takes that long to realize the effects of a valium cut.

[[Pa...]]

Valium's more difficult with daily cuts since a cut takes well over a week for a reduction to be fully realized.  I actually think that a more traditional cut and hold might be more appropriate when tapering valium. Daily cuts rely on daily feedback, and that simply isn't possible with valium.

 

I finally get it, thanks bads! 

[[Di...]]

So I am new to my DLMT and I was doing pretty well and holding at times and feeling well enough, so I did the last 1.93ml.,1.92ml,1.91,1.90ml after holding at 1.94 for about 4 days (that was a .5mg drop) and that 1.90 was on 3/28.  I held at 1.90 until 3/29, and then did 1.89 starting 3/30. (Holding) Well yesterday, I started to feel SX and today I am not feeling well, increased SX (not horrible, but still SX ).  I should say the first .5 mg I did start to feel right away as I was going down daily, so I held, a few days and then continued, and felt fine.  This one I didn’t feel anything going down after the 1.93, so I just kept going.

 

So that .5mg going into it, I was feeling great, and now it’ obvious I have to hold much more during the process.  I am journaling all of this, so I can figure out a system....does anyone have a good formula that seems to work well?  Like hold for 3 or 4 days and then proceed? Something like that??? 

 

Marie

 

Marie I am so sorry you are not feeling well these drugs are so crazy!  I started the DLMT slowly or so I thought but I guess not slow enough for my system.  I have been holding for 5 weeks now still waiting.  When and if I get to feeling better i am so hoping to decrease for maybe 4-5 days then do a hold just not sure yet how long to hold..  I hope you get some replies to your question that will help you.  Prayers and hugs for you!

 

[[ho...]]

BB’s- Thank you for the feedback...It’s always helpful.

 

I do understand the theory behind the Valium and the half life.  I do metabolize it pretty fast.  I will say, after doing my cut method the Ashton way the first 10 mg, the DLMT has been much smoother with much less intense SX.  While I did experience some, with this last .5mg, and that’s why I asked for some input, it was nothing compared to the DT method.  Today I am already feeling so much better.  I will proceed down to 1.88ml tonight ( my compound is 2ml’s = 10mg’s V).  I will hold that for a few nights and proceed.  I’ll figure out something that works...lol.

 

Hoping everyone is having a good weekend. 

 

Marie

[[Un...]]

So I am new to my DLMT and I was doing pretty well and holding at times and feeling well enough, so I did the last 1.93ml.,1.92ml,1.91,1.90ml after holding at 1.94 for about 4 days (that was a .5mg drop) and that 1.90 was on 3/28.  I held at 1.90 until 3/29, and then did 1.89 starting 3/30. (Holding) Well yesterday, I started to feel SX and today I am not feeling well, increased SX (not horrible, but still SX ).  I should say the first .5 mg I did start to feel right away as I was going down daily, so I held, a few days and then continued, and felt fine.  This one I didn’t feel anything going down after the 1.93, so I just kept going.

 

So that .5mg going into it, I was feeling great, and now it’ obvious I have to hold much more during the process.  I am journaling all of this, so I can figure out a system....does anyone have a good formula that seems to work well?  Like hold for 3 or 4 days and then proceed? Something like that??? 

 

Marie

 

Hold until you feel sx decrease to where you feel comfortable. I personally aim for no notable sx and have found that to be so much nicer than the hellish cut and hold BS I did years ago.

 

What might be happening is that the amount you are pulling is too much at a lower dose. Like when I started my micro taper, I was pulling a tenth of a ml every day. Now I find I need around a day of holding each week. Or I could pull less each day. I like to pull either .0005 or .001 to keep it simple so I compensate by holding a day here or there which then over a week's time lowers the amount I've pulled for that week.

 

I've also found that calculating out your percentage cut for the month and staying within that range each month is a nice way to stay feeling well and avoid getting into sx.

 

Here's something I use that might be helpful. It's a google sheets workbook that I use to calculate out my taper, my cuts and track symptoms. It's super helpful. I set it so it should allow anyone to copy it or download it. You can see how I start adding in holds and every 30 days I calculate my taper (it's bolded on those days). Then if I have sx, I hold. But I also will not worry about what my percentage is if I'm doing okay. By doing this, I have increased my taper about 3% per month to what I was doing with cut and holds (though that was a few years back. I had taken a long hold to get my life back). Hopefully this workbook might be a little helpful to you.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vf_7dtNEsMWh0VrDUCeyUBQBlvZRYbK5qvTv2k-rqZU/edit#gid=0

[[Un...]]

Valium's more difficult with daily cuts since a cut takes well over a week for a reduction to be fully realized.  I actually think that a more traditional cut and hold might be more appropriate when tapering valium.  Daily cuts rely on daily feedback, and that simply isn't possible with valium.

 

Ashton was big into moving patients into valium, and I think that explains the recommended 10-14 day wait between cuts.  It takes that long to realize the effects of a valium cut.

 

When I was doing cut and holds, I had a two week window where I didn't feel sx then I would get hit. This was on klonopin, so I understand this. However, you could easily do a daily MCT if you use the percent cuts you were doing as a starting point. So if you were cutting 15% a month on average (I know people might do it every two weeks but you could still average it out monthly) then you would take that cut amount (say it was 1 mg) and divide it over 30 days and that would be your daily pull. Then roll with that, and keep a monthly calculation so that you keep yourself within that range of 15% but giving yourself a little leeway so that if you can go a little faster great. Here's a spreadsheet I use so that I don't end up going much faster and hitting a wall.

 

You can see that with it, I have calculated at 30 day intervals what my percent cut is (in bold) but if I'm doing fine, I could keep cutting and not add in holds. So I have a baseline, and I stick around that baseline, but over time, I have ended up cutting around 3% more a month than I could with cut and holds. The key is being aware of what your percent cut is so that you don't overshoot so far that you get hammered. Then over time you might see that by sticking around that safety zone of your baseline, you were still able to taper a bit faster than you thought. And this way, if you get into trouble, holding a few days will generally resolve it because it's a real time response rather than having cut x amount and then riding it out with that new dose or having to updose.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vf_7dtNEsMWh0VrDUCeyUBQBlvZRYbK5qvTv2k-rqZU/edit#gid=0

[[sl...]]

Hey UnknownOrigin,

Thanks for sharing your approach and spreadsheet. I use http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/ plus a personal spreadsheet for symptoms and stuff; I've transitioned to benzo tapering from cannabinoid dosing so what I'm charting is a bit cumbersome at this point.

 

I liked your spreadsheet for simplicity, but I really prefer the liquid DMT schedule made by the website above specifically because I'm doing a liquid/tablet hybrid. I cut 1/4 of a pill, and replace it with a liquid equivalent and titrate just that dose per day. Saves on liquid, saves me a big hassle because I currently have 4 doses (ug!) but only have to fuss with one, and keeps most of my doses on steady, portable tablets.

 

Your message that you're trying to taper without symptoms is really inspiring! I believe this makes sense; that we could match our reduction rate to our bodies recovery rate, and there shouldn't be more than minor WD issues (aside from underlying health conditions).

 

I'm up in the clouds compared to your doses; just got down to 1.5mg/day of K from 2mg/day two months ago, but I haven't been on benzos for more than five months or so. Still, it's been rough learning the ropes and with ineffective or inflammatory liquid formulas, dose timing issues, etc; plenty of WD. I'd like to find that smooth ride, without giving up my 9%/14-day taper rate... I don't want to be still tapering a half decade from now!

 

Admiring your approach though! Usually I'm telling people to slow down (as they take 50% cuts a couple times a month, or even every month or two); now I'm thinking I'm the one rushing... 

[[ho...]]

Thank you for the replies.  So much appreciated!!!  I found out my math was wrong and I did not reduce what I had thought I had. UGH!!! 

 

So I changed my signature.  I am in worse shape than I thought.  I am having to revisit everything right now.  Maybe I didn’t hold long enough and stabilize after my constant crashing of 4 long months. 

 

I will be working on a new plan moving forward.

 

Marie 

[[sl...]]

Glad to hear you found your mistake Marie. You'll get this! I've made two pharmacological mistakes, ones that no one could have predicted, one in each of my first two attempts to DMT make them each a failure. I'm on my third attempt now with a new liquid formula; never give up!

 

You can do this! 

[[ho...]]

Glad to hear you found your mistake Marie. You'll get this! I've made two pharmacological mistakes, ones that no one could have predicted, one in each of my first two attempts to DMT make them each a failure. I'm on my third attempt now with a new liquid formula; never give up!

 

You can do this! 

 

Hi- Thank YOU!!  I felt so STUPID....Simple basic math, that had I just checked it, I would have caught it...ugh.  However, obviously my body was in no shape to reduce to that point.  I would be a complete mess right now, has I even tried.  So it all worked out.   

 

I’ll figure this out, just like you, and everyone else on here.  Trial by FIRE....lol.  At least that’s what it feels like at times.  At least we are moving forward. 

 

Marie

[[Ul...]]

Glad to hear you found your mistake Marie. You'll get this! I've made two pharmacological mistakes, ones that no one could have predicted, one in each of my first two attempts to DMT make them each a failure. I'm on my third attempt now with a new liquid formula; never give up!

 

You can do this! 

 

Hi- Thank YOU!!  I felt so STUPID....Simple basic math, that had I just checked it, I would have caught it...ugh.  However, obviously my body was in no shape to reduce to that point.  I would be a complete mess right now, has I even tried.  So it all worked out.   

 

I’ll figure this out, just like you, and everyone else on here.  Trial by FIRE....lol.  At least that’s what it feels like at times.  At least we are moving forward. 

 

Marie

 

Kind of like trial and correction rather than trial and error. Whatever...the finish line is out there! Nothing wrong about that

[[ho...]]

Glad to hear you found your mistake Marie. You'll get this! I've made two pharmacological mistakes, ones that no one could have predicted, one in each of my first two attempts to DMT make them each a failure. I'm on my third attempt now with a new liquid formula; never give up!

 

You can do this! 

 

Hi- Thank YOU!!  I felt so STUPID....Simple basic math, that had I just checked it, I would have caught it...ugh.  However, obviously my body was in no shape to reduce to that point.  I would be a complete mess right now, has I even tried.  So it all worked out.   

 

I’ll figure this out, just like you, and everyone else on here.  Trial by FIRE....lol.  At least that’s what it feels like at times.  At least we are moving forward. 

 

Marie

 

Kind of like trial and correction rather than trial and error. Whatever...the finish line is out there! Nothing wrong about that

 

Right... I like that.  “ Trial by Correction”....And yes the finish line is out there. 

 

Thank you

 

Marie

[[se...]]

Hey buddies. Hope everyone is hanging in there. Looking for any tips for dry cut daily micro taper.

 

Was doing cut and hold and decided to try DMT. Just started DMT on 4/11.

 

Currently at 0.39 mg Klonopin and reducing this week at 0.001 g per day.

 

Tablets average at 0.168 g for a 0.5 mg pill.

 

If 0.001 goes well I might try bumping up yo .0015 g or .002 g a day.

 

 

 

 

Thx seekingtoheal

 

[[Ul...]]

Hey buddies. Hope everyone is hanging in there. Looking for any tips for dry cut daily micro taper.

 

Was doing cut and hold and decided to try DMT. Just started DMT on 4/11.

 

Currently at 0.39 mg Klonopin and reducing this week at 0.001 g per day.

 

Tablets average at 0.168 g for a 0.5 mg pill.

 

If 0.001 goes well I might try bumping up yo .0015 g or .002 g a day.

 

 

 

 

Thx seekingtoheal

 

If you get a chance you may want to do a search for Bob7 and get some specifics from him. He's super with the dry cut stuff and very patient. I did liquid, so no help from me, but Bob will be super. Keep going!

[[lq...]]

Hi buddies. I have a question.

 

When you are dry daily micro tapering Valium, does the Ashton's "Jump at 0,50mg" still apply?

[[se...]]

Hey buddies. Hope everyone is hanging in there. Looking for any tips for dry cut daily micro taper.

 

Was doing cut and hold and decided to try DMT. Just started DMT on 4/11.

 

Currently at 0.39 mg Klonopin and reducing this week at 0.001 g per day.

 

Tablets average at 0.168 g for a 0.5 mg pill.

 

If 0.001 goes well I might try bumping up yo .0015 g or .002 g a day.

 

 

 

 

Thx seekingtoheal

 

If you get a chance you may want to do a search for Bob7 and get some specifics from him. He's super with the dry cut stuff and very patient. I did liquid, so no help from me, but Bob will be super. Keep going!

 

Thanks yes Bob7 has and is providing feedback to help me with my tapering.

 

Thx!

[[sl...]]

Can anyone check my mole to mg chemistry math?

 

Regarding my recent homebrew liquid formula, Libertas sent me this link: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc674044/m2/1/high_res_d/Acree%20Pub-479.pdf

 

I recently made a homebrew with 33.33% 180 proof alcohol, which is 30% ethanol by volume. According to the chart in the study above, clonazepam dissolved at 0.00063 mol/L in 30% ethanol by volume. I multiplied this number by the molecular weight of clonazepam (315.711 https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C1622613&Mask=200) and got that the study was saying 198mg/L were dissolved in this 30% ethanol mixture.

 

My mixture was only 30ml, at 30% ethanol, which if my math is correct, according to the study can dissolve 5.94mg of clonazepam. I happened to try to dissolve 3.75mg in my formula, so it looks like I may have been successful (barring some ethanol interaction with the tablet binders or the other).

 

Any of this making sense? I'm a kitchen chemist, but I don't want to ignore the data if my solution isn't going to be effective.

 

Thanks!

[[sl...]]

I'm DMT clonazepam, and I finally have a liquid formula that is working for my body. Over the last seven or eight days of cutting, I've been able to feel gradual cuts, and to hold and stabilize within a day. So I am getting confident that my liquid medicine, the tapering portion of my liquid/tablet DMT, is actually doing it's job. Fingers crossed.

 

Transitioning from my stable 1.5mg/day dose that I held for 3 days back to DMT cutting has been intensely emotional. I'm eating, walking, and sleeping okay, but I am a sad, nervous, existential mess all day. I held one day and these symptoms eased significantly, but I become so detached from myself when I hold that I quickly went back to cutting the next three days (today is day three since then).

 

My instinct, my goal, and some work with spirit guides suggests that if I keep cutting I will get a handle on these symptoms and be able to find a rhythm. Has this been the case for other people doing a DMT? Has anyone ever treasured the cut for emotional availability, and managed to get into it steadily despite an initial adjustment period?

 

Thank you for any experiences shared or opinions.

[[Tr...]]

Slow - I am dosing K twice a day but having a hard time from 12-5ish.

Does three times a day work well for you?

🙏🏼

 

[[sl...]]

Hi Treelover; when are your dose times? Are you talking about 12-5 am or pm?

 

Three times a day is working for me. I slept 7.5hrs straight last night; it's wonderful not needing to get up at 2am for a dose anymore! I don't know what 2 doses a day will feel like, but I will be there in a couple months or so. The active duration of clonazepam is supposed to be 10-12 hours so I hope that works for me when I get there.

 

Also, I'm doing better with my DMT; it's been a couple days since I posted about the emotional transition. Cutting every day is still so new to me; diaz-e-BAM was reminding me how much of the struggle is psychological, and how that will shift with familiarity. Still cutting 9%/14 days. Wish me luck...

[[Tr...]]

I usually take morning dose around 6am and evening around 7-8pm.

 

[[sl...]]

12 - 5 am or pm are you having issues Treelover?

[Guest [ba...]]

I'm guessing it's afternoon anxiety (pm).

[[Tr...]]

Yes, noon to 5pm things get weird.

 

[Guest [ba...]]

I know mornings really suck, but you might get a little better afternoon coverage if you could delay your morning dose until 7 or 8 am.