Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[sl...]]

I agree with Badsocref; the easiest thing to do Treelover might be just to delay that AM dose. Afternoon is a hard time for me too, even on 3 doses/day; I'm just taking it one day at a time.

[[Tr...]]

Days that I’m off work I do delay until 8 or so. If I wait until much after that I get tachycardia and anxious. I could try taking it with me to work and taking it later. It’s so annoying with the dose being crumbs and chunks.

 

Today I tried to keep 1/4 of morning dose for later. Got super anxious around 9 and took the 1/4 then. I’m ok now (almost noon). I also brought 1/4 of evening dose with me to work to take around 3.

We’ll see.

Thanks for your opinions ❤️ I appreciate it!

Laura

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Days that I’m off work I do delay until 8 or so. If I wait until much after that I get tachycardia and anxious. I could try taking it with me to work and taking it later. It’s so annoying with the dose being crumbs and chunks.

 

Today I tried to keep 1/4 of morning dose for later. Got super anxious around 9 and took the 1/4 then. I’m ok now (almost noon). I also brought 1/4 of evening dose with me to work to take around 3.

We’ll see.

Thanks for your opinions ❤️ I appreciate it!

Laura

 

I kind of think that you've reached a point in your taper where the amount of drug you take simply isn't going to cover you all day.  Symptoms will pop up during those hours when the drug coverage is lacking.  If it was just an hour or two, then moving to 3 doses a day might help, but with a 5-hour coverage gap, I don't think doing three doses will help much. 

 

Hopefully, you have some decent coping skills to get you thru the rough part of the afternoons.

[[Tr...]]

It’s ugly 😂

I end up sitting frozen at my desk from 12-5. Just put your head down and work.  I used to run on my lunch breaks before tolerance.

Now if I walk around during that time I get jelly legs and have to hold on to the walls to balance out.

It’s crazy that it gets better around 5 - I don’t take my dose until later. Maybe has to do with cortisol levels that time of the day.

 

And of course during really good windows that time of the day is ok.

If hating this process would make it go faster, I’d be done.

😂

 

Just glad to have some clarity. This was all much scarier when I didn’t know what it was.

Still scary as heck.

 

[Guest [ba...]]

It’s ugly 😂

I end up sitting frozen at my desk from 12-5. Just put your head down and work.  I used to run on my lunch breaks before tolerance.

Now if I walk around during that time I get jelly legs and have to hold on to the walls to balance out.

It’s crazy that it gets better around 5 - I don’t take my dose until later. Maybe has to do with cortisol levels that time of the day.

 

And of course during really good windows that time of the day is ok.

If hating this process would make it go faster, I’d be done.

😂

 

Just glad to have some clarity. This was all much scarier when I didn’t know what it was.

Still scary as heck.

 

So you're at work (or doing work) in the afternoons when your anxiety goes up?

[[Tr...]]

Yes - I work 6a-4p or 7a-5p most days. Sometimes 10a-8pm.

 

Mornings are okay, then noon is weird no matter if I eat or don’t eat. It’s a bit worse if I eat between 12-2. I just get so spacey. Lots of DPDR, light and dark floaters. Fluorescent lights make it worse.

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Yeah, those flickering old government fluorescent lights used to drive me crazy.

 

Do you have the same noon-5 anxiety on days that you don't work??

[[Pa...]]

Yeah, those flickering old government fluorescent lights used to drive me crazy.

 

Do you have the same noon-5 anxiety on days that you don't work??

 

Some of the buzzed too. 

[[ho...]]

Hi- 

 

Have you tried those glasses for screen’s/lights, either the ones they make for screen time or the night driving glasses.  I wonder if those might help. 

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

I think I am going to have to go back to the DLMT....I feel so crazy.  This DT I just did of only .35mg/3.74% didn’t go as well as I thought it was going.  The vibrating got much worse than when I was doing the DLMT and for two days I had bad headaches, and I also started to lack motivation again.  I did not once lack motivation on the DLMT.  I did have some vibrating, but it did not peak like this.  I am still much better than making the ~ 10% cuts.  I was going to try a 5.5% cut in a couple of weeks/or 3...but the way I started feeling....I don’t think that was going to work. And it was going to be simple with the tab’s with a 5.5% just because of ease of mg’s/tabs. 

 

Anyway my goal is about 10% per month, and with the DLMT that is almost what I did......I know there isn’t any easy way out, but looking back over my journal and just remembering, it was better than this recent cut.

 

Thanks for letting me vent and any advice is much appreciated 

 

Marie

[[Tr...]]

I do get the weirds from 12-5 on my days off.

We’re on a road trip today for anniversary. I’m way overstimulated. It’s 5pm and I’m in fight/fight.

Can’t sit still and floor is unsteady.

Eff benzos.

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Long drives do weird things to me too.  I get kind of dazed.  RV trip?

 

Tell me at least that you're driving amongst trees, Treelover.

[[Tr...]]

Going up highway 1 in the redwoods ❤️

Driving feels good, when I stop I get antsy and my head feels like it’s moving.

Stoplights almost sent me into a panic - good old 5 pm weirds.

 

I know this will get better, but it’s so nice to hear it.

My poor husband constantly reassuring me.

 

Micro taper is still way better than what I was doing before.

[Guest [ba...]]

Such a beautiful place.  We did some hiking/camping around Gold Bluff's Beach / Fern Canyon area some years ago.  Most beautiful hiking I think I've ever seen.

[[ho...]]

Going up highway 1 in the redwoods ❤️

Driving feels good, when I stop I get antsy and my head feels like it’s moving.

Stoplights almost sent me into a panic - good old 5 pm weirds.

 

I know this will get better, but it’s so nice to hear it.

My poor husband constantly reassuring me.

 

Micro taper is still way better than what I was doing before.

 

Nothing like being in the beautiful Redwoods.  I find when I am not feeling well, If I can get out and drive ( someone drive me) I tend to feel better with the fresh air.  It’s not far for us to bomb over to the Redwoods or the coast.  I hope you are getting some enjoyment 

 

Mare

[[Tr...]]

Thanks badsocref and Mare - it was nice to forest bathe 😊

 

[[Fr...]]

Has anyone felt worse slowing their daily rate? I can’t understand, I thought I would feel better or at least the same. It has been six weeks slowing to 6% instead of 9% and symptoms are off the chart worse. Has this happened to anyone? I think maybe I should go back to what I was doing but I am wondering if my brain is trying to adjust to the slower daily taper rate if I changed again would it make it even worse?

[[Ul...]]

Has anyone felt worse slowing their daily rate? I can’t understand, I thought I would feel better or at least the same. It has been six weeks slowing to 6% instead of 9% and symptoms are off the chart worse. Has this happened to anyone? I think maybe I should go back to what I was doing but I am wondering if my brain is trying to adjust to the slower daily taper rate if I changed again would it make it even worse?

 

Yes, yes and yes to everything. Everything is possible and everything happens or can happen. Personally, I'd say to hold for a while if things are off the charts. "Pushing through it" just hasn't helped many that I know of. I always liked the "heal faster than you taper" approach, but follow your heart. You'll get there!

[[Fr...]]

Thank you Ultra. I guess I thought slowing the rate would be predictable but boy was I wrong. I am going to try a more gradual approach to slowing. I don’t think my brain likes the abrupt change.

[[Ne...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have been doing a dry cut taper of Diazepam for  1 1/2 yrs. Things were going pretty good until Feb. when my cortisol shot way up. I have been trying to get that down and thought I was successful but then my body started with all kinds of horrible symptoms on 4/11 so I am considering switching to the micro tapering method. I have not tapered since mid February and I have .9mg of Diazepam left to go. When I posted more details on this in the Diazepam group, a few people thought that I am having withdrawal symptoms now and that I should hold longer before trying the DMT. 

 

Question #1 - I have read that the DMT will urge the brain to heal when it is stuck in this mode. Do you agree? My symptoms are not calming down at all (Insomnia, severe night sweats at midnight every night, temperature regulation, anxiety, tremors, etc.)

 

Question #2 - I have figured out the method for the DMT but am confused on how to best set my tapering rate. I was reducing 8% of the current total every two weeks on my previous taper. But I saw the suggested schedule for 1 mg Diazepam was to reduce .001mg every day, which would take 100 days. That seems like it would be reducing 33% per month wouldn't it? 

[[ho...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have been doing a dry cut taper of Diazepam for  1 1/2 yrs. Things were going pretty good until Feb. when my cortisol shot way up. I have been trying to get that down and thought I was successful but then my body started with all kinds of horrible symptoms on 4/11 so I am considering switching to the micro tapering method. I have not tapered since mid February and I have .9mg of Diazepam left to go. When I posted more details on this in the Diazepam group, a few people thought that I am having withdrawal symptoms now and that I should hold longer before trying the DMT. 

 

Question #1 - I have read that the DMT will urge the brain to heal when it is stuck in this mode. Do you agree? My symptoms are not calming down at all (Insomnia, severe night sweats at midnight every night, temperature regulation, anxiety, tremors, etc.)

 

Question #2 - I have figured out the method for the DMT but am confused on how to best set my tapering rate. I was reducing 8% of the current total every two weeks on my previous taper. But I saw the suggested schedule for 1 mg Diazepam was to reduce .001mg every day, which would take 100 days. That seems like it would be reducing 33% per month wouldn't it?

 

Hi-  They have suggested a hold based on your taper speed and symptoms.  Many believe in a “symptom based taper” and if you’re experiencing such bad symptoms and all of a sudden, it can be that those cuts caught up to you.  I do see you have been holding since February.  I have seen some people on the forums say it was about the 3rd month before they began to see relief…and some longer.  I do hope you find relief and the answers you are seeking.

 

I haven’t read about the DMT urging the brain to heal while stuck in this mode, but that sounds very interesting.  As far as the 1mg and .001 everyday for 100 days, it would be like 3% a month. 

 

Marie

[Guest [ba...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have been doing a dry cut taper of Diazepam for  1 1/2 yrs. Things were going pretty good until Feb. when my cortisol shot way up. I have been trying to get that down and thought I was successful but then my body started with all kinds of horrible symptoms on 4/11 so I am considering switching to the micro tapering method. I have not tapered since mid February and I have .9mg of Diazepam left to go. When I posted more details on this in the Diazepam group, a few people thought that I am having withdrawal symptoms now and that I should hold longer before trying the DMT. 

 

Question #1 - I have read that the DMT will urge the brain to heal when it is stuck in this mode. Do you agree? My symptoms are not calming down at all (Insomnia, severe night sweats at midnight every night, temperature regulation, anxiety, tremors, etc.)

 

Question #2 - I have figured out the method for the DMT but am confused on how to best set my tapering rate. I was reducing 8% of the current total every two weeks on my previous taper. But I saw the suggested schedule for 1 mg Diazepam was to reduce .001mg every day, which would take 100 days. That seems like it would be reducing 33% per month wouldn't it?

 

The idea of a DMT is to do tiny little reductions each day.  I don't know where you got the .001mg every day.  The taper rate is usually based on a percentage of your dose and not a set mass.  8% every two weeks would be around 0.55% per day.  That seems like a reasonable taper rate to me.  Tapering 0.001 mg per day is actually a very slow taper for you.  It would take 900 cuts (2.5 years) to get to zero.  That seems very long to me from 0.9 mg diazepam.

 

The other idea of a DMT is to be able to adjust your taper rate depending on your symptom intensity.  Unfortunately, diazepam has a long elimination half-life, so by the time you realized that your symptoms were getting nasty, you would have already likely made several more reductions.  So that part of the DMT approach doesn't work well for diazepam. 

 

You can still do the (small) daily cuts and see how it goes.  You'd still want to slow down or hold if symptoms get too nasty.

 

As for this approach somehow urging the brain to heal better than the cut and hold.  I don't see it.  You won't get the bi-weekly jolt that you were getting from the cut and hold.  Symptom intensity 'should' be a bit more consistent from day to day.

[[Ne...]]

I am sorry. I should clarify. The chart I read and a video I saw said to take away .001 the first day .002 the second day etc. At least, that is what I understood. Maybe I interpreted it incorrectly.

[[Li...]]

The other idea of a DMT is to be able to adjust your taper rate depending on your symptom intensity.  Unfortunately, diazepam has a long elimination half-life, so by the time you realized that your symptoms were getting nasty, you would have already likely made several more reductions.  So that part of the DMT approach doesn't work well for diazepam. 

 

Thank you, badsocref, for raising an important but too infrequently made point. Per Horowitz and Taylor (2019 - link below), one of the disadvantages of daily microtapering is that it presents the possibility of cumulative withdrawal effects being superimposed on one another. This makes it difficult to establish which reduction (or set of reductions) was responsible for the symptoms experienced.

 

Link:

https://www.mentalhealthexcellence.org/tapering-of-ssri-treatment-to-mitigate-withdrawal-symptoms/

[Guest [ba...]]

I am sorry. I should clarify. The chart I read and a video I saw said to take away .001 the first day .002 the second day etc. At least, that is what I understood. Maybe I interpreted it incorrectly.

 

So yeah, you remove 0.001 the first day and 0.002 the second, but that's 0.002 from the original, not 0.002 from the one that you already removed 0.001 from.  So if you were tapering 0.001 from 0.900, you'd do 0.900, 0.899, 0.898, 0.897, 0.896, ...  900 days to get to zero.  I think that's kind of slow from 0.900 mg of valium.