Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Gard- what's your dose now? Since you're doing 5% a month, do you decrease your daily cut Amt each month to keep it at 5%?

 

After my hold, I figured a 5% cut and just kept cutting the same amount. I guess if I did some math, I would no longer be at 5%, would I? I generally do check my rate each month.

Seems I missed checking February 1st.    I'd better get on that.

 

I've found for myself, that if I get up near 8%, it's time to adjust back down again. I learned this through trial and error. I keep note cards with my day's reduction and notes for how I feel. I started up again after my hold at 5% because I looked back through my cards and saw I felt the best below 8%.

 

Gard

[[Sa...]]

Hi Magnolis,

Hope you’re still on this site and doing better. In my search for any info on L-methylfolate, which my Psych MD just prescribed, I ran across your blog. Im still on klonopin and in tolerance waiting 2 years till I can retire. Thought I’d try some natural stuff to get me through the tolerance period until I can  taper so I can still work. I have both the MTHFR indicators from my drug test. Figured I found the cause of my lifelong struggle with anxiety. You mention a Dr in Chicago that is knowledgeable in this. I live in Chicago. Who is this Dr? I’d like to see if I can get another opinion. Thank goodness I read this thread cause I don’t want to make matters worse and force me into another taper I’m not ready for.

Thank you!

[[ga...]]

Sarian, If you click on Magnolis' name and then "send PM," you can message her directly.

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

I am going to continue my microtaper or after a long 4 month hold. I taper one mg and take the rest dry of valium.  I never understood how to make a batch and take the designated amount per day instead of mixing daily? Please give me directions. Thanks. Want to try 8% per month.

[[Fr...]]

Hi there! Anyone close to finished with the precision gram scale weighing to .0001 and would like to pass it on? The jewelry scale just isn’t accurate.

[[bu...]]

I am going to continue my microtaper or after a long 4 month hold. I taper one mg and take the rest dry of valium.  I never understood how to make a batch and take the designated amount per day instead of mixing daily? Please give me directions. Thanks. Want to try 8% per month.

 

OK 1) your at 5mg/day,and 2) you want to cut 8%/month.

 

5mg X 8% = .4mg

.4mg/30 days = .013mg/day  Round up to  .015mg/day

 

Dissolve 50mg in 100ml vodka and add 400ml water.  This will be a 10-12 day supply of liquid V.

 

Your daily dose schedule will be:

 

5mg          (50ml)

4.985mg    (49.85ml)

4.97mg      (49.7ml)

4.955mg    (49.55ml)

4.94mg      (49.4ml)

etc....  just drink .15ml less each day

 

Each day, just take your syringe and pull up and drink the scheduled amount of liquid.  That's all there is to it.  Its no different than taking any liquid med...measure out your dose and take it.

 

[[He...]]

Gard- what's your dose now? Since you're doing 5% a month, do you decrease your daily cut Amt each month to keep it at 5%?

 

After my hold, I figured a 5% cut and just kept cutting the same amount. I guess if I did some math, I would no longer be at 5%, would I? I generally do check my rate each month.

Seems I missed checking February 1st.    I'd better get on that.

 

I've found for myself, that if I get up near 8%, it's time to adjust back down again. I learned this through trial and error. I keep note cards with my day's reduction and notes for how I feel. I started up again after my hold at 5% because I looked back through my cards and saw I felt the best below 8%.

 

Gard

 

Hi there, I’m new to this group. Hope it’s ok if I join in.

I too am getting lower in my dose and I am on DLMT.  I reduce about .003 each day. Sometime .002  and sometimes.005 according to how I feel.

 

I have tried to keep my reduction down to 5% a month.

But I have discovered that each month my reductions are beginning to go closer to 6%.

 

I suppose that won’t hurt because I’m not getting wdsx. 

 

I’m wondering if varying my daily dose between .002 and .005 is not a good idea because it is not steady? ( I do that so I can keep reducing but not go over 6%.)

Is it better to just reduce by . 005  steadily each day and just stop when I reach 6% and hold there until the end of the month. Then start again at the beginning of the next month?

Maybe I should recalculate the reduction  so I will be able to cut the same amount daily and still be st 6%?  But then I won’t have any hold days. Is it better to have hold days?

 

Heath

[[Ma...]]

I am going to continue my microtaper or after a long 4 month hold. I taper one mg and take the rest dry of valium.  I never understood how to make a batch and take the designated amount per day instead of mixing daily? Please give me directions. Thanks. Want to try 8% per month.

 

OK 1) your at 5mg/day,and 2) you want to cut 8%/month.

 

5mg X 8% = .4mg

.4mg/30 days = .013mg/day  Round up to  .015mg/day

 

Dissolve 50mg in 100ml vodka and add 400ml water.  This will be a 10-12 day supply of liquid V.

 

Your daily dose schedule will be:

 

5mg          (50ml)

4.985mg    (49.85ml)

4.97mg      (49.7ml)

4.955mg    (49.55ml)

4.94mg      (49.4ml)

etc....  just drink .15ml less each day

 

Each day, just take your syringe and pull up and drink the scheduled amount of liquid.  That's all there is to it.  Its no different than taking any liquid med...measure out your dose and take it.

 

 

Builder, I want to only liquify 1 mg and take the rest dry. What would calculations be for that?  Where do I get a syringe that has those tiny increments.  Thanks ...i just cant do the daily mix anymore!

[[Ma...]]

Builder:

 

So for 1 mg  I would dissolve 10 mg in ------ ml vodka, and ------???///Ml Water.

 

then, how do I find a syringe that I can READ, that reduces .015?

 

Also what is your viewpoint on Roxane. how does that compare with home brew?

 

Thank you Builder.

 

[[Ma...]]

L Mythlfolate

 

I would never touch it again. What happened to be was horrible and it was an ultra tiny dose. It was poison in my system.

Drs. Know nothing about this.

 

The one person, William Walsh PHD. wrote a book called Nutrient Power. Has the Walsh Institute in Chicago. He is the ONLY person I would go to for any type of supplementation.

 

[[Ma...]]

Builder

Is this right?

For 10 day supply of 1 mg:

10 mg V + 20 ML Vodka + 80 ML of Water

 

 

Then do I use a  1 ML syringe and/or  10 ml, syringe

 

What would the daily reduction be? How do you measure it on a syringe?

 

Is there a chart somewhere on a spreadsheet, Like the one on Benzo.org which uses the toss method, that I wont be using anymore ?

[[bu...]]

Builder:

 

So for 1 mg  I would dissolve 10 mg in ------ ml vodka, and ------???///Ml Water.

 

1mg V + 2ml vodka + 8ml water

 

then, how do I find a syringe that I can READ, that reduces .015?

 

Your .015MG reduction is .15ML You can easily read that on a 1ml syringe.  And don't get hung up on accuracy and precision, its really not important.

 

Also what is your viewpoint on Roxane. how does that compare with home brew?

 

If your doc will give you a scrip for Rx liquid V, that is the "gold standard" for doing a liquid taper.

 

Thank you Builder.

[[Ma...]]

So for a 10 day supply

 

10 mg v

20ml vodka

80ml water

 

Is that right

 

So do I use a,10 ml syringe

What would chart be?

What is the unit of measure for .015 on a syringe?

 

This is where i get confused. Want to make a 10 day batch and reduce from there.

Haven't tapered in over 3 months, this is all new, so I need to 100% understand. Pretend I'm in kindergarten#$@$

[[Gr...]]

I'm sure this has been asked before, and I even think I have answered it, but hell, I'm going to ask it anyways.  How do I know if my current symptoms are because of my recent cut or it's just part of the withdrawal I would be going through anyways?  I have gone down from .125mg k to .085mg k, and I feel pretty much the same, in face a little bit better than I did in January.  However, things rotate, like for example I was having shoulder pain and muscle tension and I feel like that has subsided a bit but now I am having anxiety.

 

So...I am wondering, if I hold, will the anxiety go away?  Does it matter?  It's only .085mg of K.  I'm having a hard time believing this much can effect me at all.  I used to just down and extra .5mg of k sometimes to sleep.  It's just mindblowing if this tiny amount can give me extra anxiety.

[[Ma...]]

0 to .01 has ten increments or lines on a 1 ml syringe. So where does the .015 reduction show up. These lines are so small I can barely see them. I assume .015 is 1.5 line increments? If Im right, do you have a 1 ml syringe that has clear lines to see?

[[le...]]

0 to .01 has ten increments or lines on a 1 ml syringe. So where does the .015 reduction show up. These lines are so small I can barely see them. I assume .015 is 1.5 line increments? If Im right, do you have a 1 ml syringe that has clear lines to see?

 

On a 1 mL syringe? I just wing it between two .01 markers, just somewhere in between. I can't imagine it makes that much of a difference when you get that granular.

[[bu...]]

So for a 10 day supply

 

10 mg v

20ml vodka

80ml water

 

Is that right

 

So do I use a,10 ml syringe

What would chart be?

What is the unit of measure for .015 on a syringe?

 

This is where i get confused. Want to make a 10 day batch and reduce from there.

Haven't tapered in over 3 months, this is all new, so I need to 100% understand. Pretend I'm in kindergarten#$@$

 

Yes, your prep procedure is correct

 

You will need both a 10ml and 1ml syringe.  You could do it all with a 1ml syringe, but it will be much easier using both.

 

Your "chart" will be:

 

4mg tablets    1mg (10ml) liquid

4mg tablets    .985mg (9.85ml)

4mg tablets    .970mg (9.7ml)

4mg tablets    .955mg (9.55ml)

 

etc...

 

Your 1ml syringe will either have 100 graduation (.01ml) or 50 graduations (.02ml)  Don't worry about which you have, either will work OK.  Note that you will never have to measure out .015ml, only to .15ml

 

OK, here's the "kindergarten" part:

 

For 9.85ml (2nd day) fill the 10ml syringe to the 9 mark, then fill the 1ml syringe to the .85 mark (halfway between 8 and 9) 9+.85=9.85

 

For 9.7ml (3rd day)  fill the 10ml syringe to the 9 mark, then fill the 1ml syringe to the .7 mark.  9+.7=9.7

 

etc...

 

And one more time don't obsess about accuracy!.  As long as you just take a little less each day, that's all that really matters.

[[Ma...]]

Builder

 

Ok think I got it but need to CONFIRM from last post thst this is a 10 day supply reducing 1 mg  valiu .  right.  I'm on 5mg v.  Want to titrate 1 mg and take 4 dry.

 

[[Ma...]]

Thanks. Builder !!!!! Once again..to the rescue.. I refrigerate the brew, right? 

[[bu...]]

Thanks. Builder !!!!! Once again..to the rescue.. I refrigerate the brew, right?

 

It will last 10-12 days.  Store at room temp, covered glass jar.

[[ga...]]

Gard- what's your dose now? Since you're doing 5% a month, do you decrease your daily cut Amt each month to keep it at 5%?

 

After my hold, I figured a 5% cut and just kept cutting the same amount. I guess if I did some math, I would no longer be at 5%, would I? I generally do check my rate each month.

Seems I missed checking February 1st.    I'd better get on that.

 

I've found for myself, that if I get up near 8%, it's time to adjust back down again. I learned this through trial and error. I keep note cards with my day's reduction and notes for how I feel. I started up again after my hold at 5% because I looked back through my cards and saw I felt the best below 8%.

 

Gard

 

Hi there, I’m new to this group. Hope it’s ok if I join in.

I too am getting lower in my dose and I am on DLMT.  I reduce about .003 each day. Sometime .002  and sometimes.005 according to how I feel.

 

I have tried to keep my reduction down to 5% a month.

But I have discovered that each month my reductions are beginning to go closer to 6%.

 

I suppose that won’t hurt because I’m not getting wdsx. 

 

I’m wondering if varying my daily dose between .002 and .005 is not a good idea because it is not steady? ( I do that so I can keep reducing but not go over 6%.)

Is it better to just reduce by . 005  steadily each day and just stop when I reach 6% and hold there until the end of the month. Then start again at the beginning of the next month?

Maybe I should recalculate the reduction  so I will be able to cut the same amount daily and still be st 6%?  But then I won’t have any hold days. Is it better to have hold days?

 

Heath

Hi Heath! I think Begood does a combinations of cuts and holds. Have you been to her blog?

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=141242.12220

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I'm sure this has been asked before, and I even think I have answered it, but hell, I'm going to ask it anyways.  How do I know if my current symptoms are because of my recent cut or it's just part of the withdrawal I would be going through anyways?  I have gone down from .125mg k to .085mg k, and I feel pretty much the same, in face a little bit better than I did in January.  However, things rotate, like for example I was having shoulder pain and muscle tension and I feel like that has subsided a bit but now I am having anxiety.

 

So...I am wondering, if I hold, will the anxiety go away?  Does it matter?  It's only .085mg of K.  I'm having a hard time believing this much can effect me at all.  I used to just down and extra .5mg of k sometimes to sleep.  It's just mindblowing if this tiny amount can give me extra anxiety.

 

Green, unless you keep a diary and can see a regular pattern, I don't think you can know. Waves and windows just happen. I think if I were that close to the end, I would just keep creeping slowly toward the finish line as long as the symptoms were tolerable. If they're not, a hold would be worth a try.

 

Hope you find a rate that works for you.

 

Gard

[[Li...]]

GARD...help!  My sis! 

 

I joined another Face book group and my benzo brain is all confused.  I need to understand what you do again with 5 mgs of Librium.

 

So you dissolve 5 mgs in 3 mls of alcohol and 97 mls of water....then you pull out 0.20 with a syringe the first night, throw it out and drink what's in the jar.  The next day you dissolve again, etc. and then take out 0.40 with a syringe and throw it out and drink what's in the jar...right? 

 

I have someone telling me to always take out the same amount...well if I did that I'd never get off the drug!  I had my hubs read it too and he was confused as well.  This lady is telling me to always take out the same...what is she thinking anyway. 

 

I'm just trying like hell to figure out why I got slammed with pain after just 3 days.  I know I need to start lower next time...like 0.10 mls the first night, then 0.20 the second night etc. 

 

Also I know you dose 3 times a day.  When you take your second and third dose which I believe you make up in the morning, do you shake those doses as well since they've been sitting for awhile.  do you still see fillers at the bottom? 

 

sorry  but I'm freaking out again.  I took something that increased the absorption of my benzo so I was feeling awful over the weekend. 

 

Hope you are doing okay after that Epinephrine....thx!!!

[[ga...]]

GARD...help!  My sis! 

 

I joined another Face book group and my benzo brain is all confused.  I need to understand what you do again with 5 mgs of Librium.

 

So you dissolve 5 mgs in 3 mls of alcohol and 97 mls of water....then you pull out 0.20 with a syringe the first night, throw it out and drink what's in the jar.  The next day you dissolve again, etc. and then take out 0.40 with a syringe and throw it out and drink what's in the jar...right? 

 

I have someone telling me to always take out the same amount...well if I did that I'd never get off the drug!  I had my hubs read it too and he was confused as well.  This lady is telling me to always take out the same...what is she thinking anyway. 

 

I'm just trying like hell to figure out why I got slammed with pain after just 3 days.  I know I need to start lower next time...like 0.10 mls the first night, then 0.20 the second night etc. 

 

Also I know you dose 3 times a day.  When you take your second and third dose which I believe you make up in the morning, do you shake those doses as well since they've been sitting for awhile.  do you still see fillers at the bottom? 

 

sorry  but I'm freaking out again.  I took something that increased the absorption of my benzo so I was feeling awful over the weekend. 

 

Hope you are doing okay after that Epinephrine....thx!!!

 

You are correct and the lady is confused! Of course, if she does cut and hold, she would take out the same amount every day for 2-4 weeks and then re-calculate. So maybe that's it.

 

I daily micro-taper. Yesterday I removed 10ml from each jar and drank the rest. (I loved hitting that 10ml milestone.) Today I removed 10.2ml from each jar and drank the rest. Tomorrow I will remove 10.4ml from each jar and drink the rest. My detailed Librium routine is here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137858.40

 

I actually mix up all three doses at supper time. I dissolve by letting the drug sit in the alcohol for about 10 minutes and swish it around a few times to make sure it all came in contact with the alcohol. Then I add the water to each jar and screw the lids on. I shake each one. I open each one. I use my large syringe to pull the 10ml. I set it down. Then I used my small syringe to pull the .2ml and set it down. Of course, by the time I have pulled from all 3 bottles, there is plenty of stuff settled to the bottom.

 

I then pull the back off each syringe while holding it over the first jar (cuz that's where I started) and let the librium in the tip of the syringe drop back into the first jar. The drug in the tip of a syringe is never part of a measurement, so I don't want to pitch it. I want to consume it. The large syringe has a large tip, so I really don't want to lose that part of the dose. I want to put it back in the jar. Then I put the syringe back together and draw up a little clean water to rinse any residue out of the syringe and squirt that back into the bottle, too. Then I set all 3 bottles aside.

 

I take one dose at bedtime, one dose when I get up, and one dose in the afternoon. Yes the fillers are at the bottom. I don't shake at first. I drink, then add a little water to the jar, shake, drink again.

 

Then, at supper time, I set up the three doses again. And on and on and on until I want to thrown the cylinder out the window.

 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Have you considered my super-chicken method of starting up? I do this after every hold. I make one micro-taper cut. Then I stay a week at that same level. The next week I make a reduction on Sunday and on Wednesday only. The next week I reduce on Sunday, Wednesday, Friday. These are tiny cuts I intend to eventually make each day, but I am easing into it. If that goes well. I start with daily cuts. I always start with the smallest cut I can make. I inch upward if I feel OK. As soon as I stop feeling OK, I reduce the cuts or hold until I am better.

 

I would clarify, feeling OK does not mean no symptoms. It means tolerable symptoms. Sometimes I have up to a day of intolerable symptoms, but I consider that tolerable. As long as most of my days are low-symptom days, I keep going.

 

Thanks for remembering the ephedrine. I didn't have to have it!   

 

If I were in your shoes and having a lot of pain, I would hold for one week or more and then use the super-chicken start-up method from there, starting with the smallest cut I could make with my syringe.

 

Hope that helps. Let us know how it goes!

 

Gard

[[Ha...]]

Just to get to know what I’m doing before tapering. Builder I suspended 20 x .5mg X into 20ml of Vodka (80 proof). Added 180 ml of water to get about a week’s worth.  I draw up 10ml 3 times daily (currently on 3 x .5 X daily). Would you expect a taper schedule (assuming I feel fine at 10% reduction) take about 18 months to get down to .025? I find taking all doses in liquid easier than both tablet and liquid, or am missing something since so many people on BB use both tablets and liquid. Also does anyone have an Excel formula to use as a guide for daily reduction?