Long-Term Users group - w/d and recovery after longterm use

[[be...]]

Hi Mariam:

 

I just read your latest post and it seems to differ just a bit from the earlier posts that I have read from you. Kpin is obviously hurting, rather than helping you. So I think your first POA is to get off it. Like Bennie said, doing a C/O to valium may be a good option, but you won't know until you try it. For me, it helped tremendously. For others, not so. And you don't want to go back to xanax, I take it, because you said you did not want to go backwards. You really aren't going backwards if you exchange Kpin to Xanax at the same rate. So, 1.5 mg of kpin equals 1.5 mg of xanax. I truly believe that at least part of your problem is that you did a C/T in January. Just because you are on another benzo doesn't mean you won't suffer from that C/T. And switching to this and that didn't help at all. What you really need to do is make a decision what benzo you want to be on and stick with that. You really need to calm your CNS, as I think it is a mess right now. I also think you best option is to do a dry micro taper. I gave you some information about it. Please print it out. I didn't tell you how much you need to cut because I didn't know how much you wanted to cut. That will be up to you, in accordance with the people here who know a lot about your situation and can help you with the math. I can only tell you what they math I did, as obviously I am also on K. I was on .625 mg when I joined here. I told the people here I wanted to cut slowly, .03 mg every two weeks. So I micro tapered and cut .001 grams 10 out of 14 days. At first, it is hit or miss. Then I decided that I didn't need to hold for four days, so I cut back my hold days to 2 out of 14 days. I'll wait a while and then reduce my hold days until I get down to 0 hold days. Hopefully, I will be able to cut every single day. You start out cautious, and then see what happens and maybe you can make a dosage change. So if you agree to a micro taper (I know you tried titration and didn't like it), you have a scale already, same as mine and others here, then you have two options left.

 

One would be to do what Bennie and I suggested. Make a gradual C/O to Valium. I continued to cut my K while I continued to make the C/O, but since you are in bad shape, I would suggest that you hold until the C/O is finished. I was not in bad shape when I made the C/O. The other option you have is going back to xanax. I happen to hate Xanax personally because I took it before with very bad results. Way too much I/D. It made me crazy in between doses. But others have tapered off Xanax with success. That would not be an option for me, but then again, me and K and V get along well. So your choice: Xanax or Valium? And you can micro taper from both of those drugs. But whatever you do, make a decision and stick to a proper schedule. The more changes, the worse you will feel. Humans hate changes, whether they be mental ones, psychical ones, or something like racism. Everybody wants to be the same as the next person. That's why Joni Mitchell calls America a "homogenous rot."

 

What to do about the rage? Simply walk away from any potential argument. If you are spoiling for a fight, then tell that person that you are already feeling rage due to benzos, and please go away and leave me alone until I can get calm myself. I'm sure they would prefer to run for the hills rather than get into a big, useless and hurtful fight that you will regret.

Bets

[[Mo...]]

Thanks. That's my problem. I seemingly can't make a decision while my life is senselessly rotting away. I have wasted what would have otherwise been a great life. I threw it away. I digress. I get benzo rage also in the form of uncomfortable agitation inside of me. I chose Valium. I just want to do the c/o and be done. As for Xanax, I think it could be unwise to go from a longer-acting like Klonopin to a short-acting like Xanax. My pdoc wouldn't do it anyway, I don't think he would. So I have a choice. Terror from Klonopin or agitation from Valium. This was not supposed to be my life. But this is what I allowed somehow,

[[Mo...]]

BG

I am following the Ashton taper schedule for c/o from 1.5 K a day even though my morning dose of K is 7/8 of a , 5 pill. I would like to skip a stage and take 5 mg. Valium with a .25 Klonopin for the afternoon dose instead of a straight Klonopin. At night I have just begun 10 mg. Valium only as of last night. I add half a Benadryl when I need some potentiation or calming. Would I keep cutting K? I will be over to all Valium in a few weeks as per the schedule. I have already been taking 5 mg. V with .25 K at bedtime for 9 days. I was doing that same bedtime dose for a month. Then I took away the V and replaced it back to a .5 K for at least a week. Then I took back the 5 mg. V with the .25 K at bedtime again...that was for the last 9 days. Now moving onward with the c/o. What if I have trouble with the c/o as others seem to have going from long-term K to V? Then what? I don't want any problems with it. Then I will be in another conundrum not knowing what to do. I want to stick with one thing. What kinds of problems do people get from doing the c/o and how do they resolve them?

[[MT...]]

Bets, I'm a Joni Mitchell fan too.

 

Is anyone on this thread post taper? On the other side of this crud? Just wondering.

[[Kg...]]

Mozart you can post your question on the Valium cross over support group - the people there have done the cross over and will tell you how to do it.  You can also look at the Ashton manual to see how she does it or if you want to do a faster cross over and hold for a month use Dr. Pearts method - just google his name. Again you don't need to start a new thread just go the support group and people will give you all the info you need to do the switch from K to V if that is what you have decided to do. 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

I am so, so tired of living my life in fear. I have been living a death for way too long. I decided to do the Valium c/o once and for all to get off of 39 years of benzos. Currently I had been taking 1.5 mg. Klonopin a day. I took 1/8 of one of my three daily doses of , 5 every 8 hours away. I switched to 5 mg. V with .25 K at bedtime dose. Been doing that a while. Took only 10 mg. V last night without the K. I skipped one week in the Ashton am going to be taking 7/8 of the .5 K in the morning (has begun turning on me giving me paradoxical effect), a 5 mg. V with a .25 K afternoon and 10 mg. V at night. This is because I don't want to do a week of two .5 K then 10 mg. V at night. I am only skipping a one week phase so as to have less K to deal with.I am deeply afraid of this because I already have more depression setting in. But I MUST stick to SOMETHING even if afraid.I have to tell myself I WILL be uncomfortable and symptomatic but it's part of the healing. Thanks for listening. I am scared. Especially because I have read quite often how people have a particularly hard time as long-term users going from K to V Any words of comfort and advice are appreciated. .If I am deep into the switch and get unbearable depression or other symptoms I will have to find a way to ride them out.I have wasted my life especially living in fear.

[[be...]]

Mozart:

 

I was on 10 mg kpin for 11.5 years and made the C/O to valium without a hitch.  (also previously on 13 mg of xanax for a decade) I think you can do this as well. Glad you made a decision on the matter. K is not your cup of tea. Take care,

Bets

[[Mo...]]

BG

THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART FOR BEING THERE FOR ME

 

[[Mo...]]

Mozart:

 

I was on 10 mg kpin for 11.5 years and made the C/O to valium without a hitch.  (also previously on 13 mg of xanax for a decade) I think you can do this as well. Glad you made a decision on the matter. K is not your cup of tea. Take care,

Bets

 

That is a lot of mg. How did you manage? That is remarkable.

[[pr...]]

Mozart:

 

I was on 10 mg kpin for 11.5 years and made the C/O to valium without a hitch.  (also previously on 13 mg of xanax for a decade) I think you can do this as well. Glad you made a decision on the matter. K is not your cup of tea. Take care,

Bets

 

Bets,

 

that is a lot. do have any head/brain symptoms? that is my worst symptoms and fear that they will never go away. i have an on-going squeezing almost like a dystonia and of course the head pressure and i also have this vibration in the left lower corner. very terrified that this is permanent.

[[88...]]

Hi,

I was on paxil for about fourteen years, klonopin for around 20, valium for six months.

It has been quite a ride, as I went off the paxil c/t..I don't recommend that... :idiot:

It has been eight months since I went off the valium (did the crossover from K) and I

am seeing signs of healing..it's slow, and there are waves along the way, but lately

the waves don't last as long...

What a great thread! Thanks for starting it.

Iggy 

[[Mo...]]

Iggy

I am glad you said this. I have been on benzos for 39 years. Klonopin with either Xanax or Serax for the last fiftern or so years. I skipped from stage one to stage three on Ashton because the Klonopin turned on me suddenly giving me paradoxical effects. I took 7/8 of a .5 k this morning, a 5 Mg. V with a .25 k this afternoon and will take 10 Mg. V tonight. V is weak. Having w/d, terror and feeling like ending it all. Will this level off? I want next week to get here so I can take the Congo in the morning as well. K and V don't seem to help much. I feel I am on nothing. I c/t years of Xanax in January. Doc said to because I had K on board to cover it. Haw...my body's used to taking two kinds. Feel terror. Can't leave my bed for ages now. Waves...no windows. Want windows. Thanks ahead of time for your help.

Marian

[[MT...]]

Iggy, do you sleep yet? If so, when did that start? I'm at 5 months and seeing no progress with sleep. Other things are improving--slowly--but not sleep. It's quite difficult.

[[88...]]

Hi MTfan,

I sleep when I can, like, in the early evening: I take a book to bed, read some, and usually fall asleep.

I'll get up, eat something, and read again, usually in the comfy chair in the living room.

Reading helps with this..if I'm up, I have a good book to occupy me. Also, I'll write in my

cheap notebook about the day; I'll record waves, windows, progress, that sort of thing.

Recently I ordered a hammock stand so I can lie out on the front porch and watch the clouds,

the garden, and I'll have a book with me.

One thing that has helped is going to bed really early, like around eight or nine. If I sleep, fine,

if not, it's ok because I get rest. Years ago I was diagnosed with CFS and I learned that you get

a lot more rest lying down rather than sitting.

Chamomile tea is also something I use as it helps with inflammation and that helps my gut

which paxil did a number on.

Hope this helps. I have a few other tricks I use.

Iggy 

 

[[88...]]

Hi Mozart,

interesting that you wrote that the K turned on you. I got that same thing with paxil just before I

went off it.

Nice doc..ha ha..just kidding. He/she isn't doing any homework on this..

Do you take magnesium? I have found it helps a lot--I can't take it by mouth so I put it on my skin

and I find it calming. I use vitamin C topically: I make a spray with water and sodium ascorbate. Ditto on

the calming.

Lately I've been sucking on vitamin C wafers and I have noticed that the fear goes away while I'm

doing that.

Vitamin D also helps with pain, and recently I avoided a cold that infiltrated our house by

putting D on my skin.

Hope this helps.

Iggy 

[[MT...]]

Iggy, there are a BUNCH of us on BB who have CFS. It seems to me the drugs we are/were on led to the CFS in some and made it worse in many of the rest of us (my case--I thought they were helping me function but I just kept getting worse and worse). It will be interesting to see what our CFS is like after we're though wd. I'm already stronger than I was, able to exercise and stuff, but my stamina the rest of the time is not impressive. I'm glad you're getting some sleep. Keep healing,

 

Katie

[[88...]]

Hi Katie,

interesting about long term use and CFS...interesting.

I was diagnosed with it and then put on the drugs and I got worse, and I so strongly suspect it

was the drugs they gave me. Have you been on any CFS forums? Oh my, the drugs they take..

so sad.

Exhaustion is my companion, and it has gotten worse in the last few months after going off V.

It's wonderful that you're exercising! What kind of exercise are you doing?

You want to know my exercise program? We have a two story house. I go downstairs and remember

I forgot something upstairs. Repeat. Repeat Repeat...got to use this forgetfulness to my advantage.

So, your CFS has improved if you are exercising, and I think mine is too..could it be that

CFS gets worse when they put people on these toxins..? I've been wondering about that.

Keep healing too.

Iggy

[[MT...]]

Iggy, I used to go to a lot of CFS sites but not so much the past two years. It was reading about Dr. Paul Cheney's recommendations that started me on Klonopin. He said it was the best way to protect the HPA axis in CFS and he still says it! Everyone I know with CFS and/or fibro is super drugged.

 

I started exercise very slowly--walking up and down stairs, some gentle yoga then moved to 10 minute walks, ever so gradually increasing it. Now I go to a 30 minute aerobics and weights class 2-3 times per week followed by 30 minutes of weights twice a week, an hour yoga class once per week, and then I try to walk for 60-90 minutes two, sometimes 3 times per week. I do some interval training with dance-dance revolution when it's too icky outside.Some weeks I only manage 3 exercise sessions, sometimes I make 6.

 

I never would have believed this was possible. I had/have handicapped parking I was so bad! But when I started getting off meds and was so desperate to sleep I pushed it. Don't get me wrong, all of this is very hard but it makes me feel like I'm doing all I can to get better. I try not to beat myself up when I don't feel up to it for a day or two or three. Sometimes I'm just too ill and exhausted. I want to be able to hike 10 miles for summer but I seem stuck at around 5 hilly ones.

 

Keep healing!

 

Katie

[[88...]]

Hi Katie,

yeah, I started K due to Cheney's recommendations too. Grrrrr. Thanks, pal.

Yep. Every other CFS person I knew on the forums is super drugged. It's SO sad.

You're doing an amazing job with your exercise. I'm really impressed. I have to

keep my memory in poor shape in order to walk up and down our steps..up down..

where's that pen? Up down..I left it in the kitchen...oops the ink just went out..got to

remember where I keep the pen stash...that's my exercise.

I have a handicapped parking thingy too, and it has helped a lot.

I'll be back tomorrow...fading..oh how I want to go on a hike too.

keep healing too,

Iggy

[[MT...]]

I wonder how many folks with CFS are now in trouble with benzos, dependent either for life or facing a wicked wd because of Cheney? It's easy for me to get angry but I think, like most docs, he's trying to help. It's ignorance. CFS and fibro materials all seem to support polydrugging. I was so naive. I feel like Sleeping Beauty is waking up at 52. OK, so I'm too awake now and not sleeping, but at least I/we know what's going on.

[[wa...]]

I too suffer with cfs and feel exhausted most of the time.

I notice that when I taper I feel even more tired,  I hope this passes the lower I go. 

[[MT...]]

At 5 months out I notice a different kind of tired. Gone is the cloud of sedation from all of the meds. Instead I feel a jittery tired from not sleeping. As impossible as it feels to do, exercise helps me manage some of this. I feel better during and for hours after. While I notice some  brain more accessible from not being drugged, the cog fog is very real still. I suspect all of us with CFS are going to be much, much better off than when we started with CFS and the meds. I've been thinking that my prognosis with CFS was pretty lousy until wd came on the scene. I could almost feel thankful for it if I felt better

[[Mo...]]

Hi guys...please read my post today at The Klonopin Klub

[[pr...]]

Hi guys...please read my post today at The Klonopin Klub

 

i am so pleased to hear you're having a better day and was able to enjoy some daylight and sunshine. so have you made your cross over to valium? i couldn't remember everything you said. still struggling with head prsesure.

[[Mo...]]

Pretty, yes I am in the process of the crossover to Valium. Back in a bad wave again now.  What if this isn't even from benzos? If I had to try to live this way and it wasn't from benzos, I would never make it. That is my fear.